A Senate Committee’s Health Reform Bill

The Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, which has been struggling in the absence of ailing Chairman Ted Kennedy, has put out a full version of a health reform bill that solves many of the problems of its earlier versions and trial balloons. This amounts to enormous progress, largely creditable to Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd, who has taken the helm of the committee in Kennedy’s stead.

Where the earlier, incomplete version had been estimated to add $1 trillion to the deficit over the next decade, the new one has pared that cost to $611.4 billion. It also does a lot better job of covering the uninsured; the Congressional Budget Office estimates that, combined with the Medicaid expansion expected under the bill that the Senate Finance Committee is working on, this legislation could assure that 97 percent* (Republicans dispute this figure; please see update.) of the U.S. population (excluding illegal immigrants) has coverage.

The full bill is here, and there’s a summary in this letter to their colleagues from Kennedy and Dodd. Two components of the bill are worth a closer look: the play-or-pay provision that would require employers to provide health benefits to their workers, and the proposal for a government-run “public plan.”

The employer requirement–it used to be called a “mandate,” but politicians these days prefer to talk in gentler terms of “shared responsibility”–would require companies that have 25 workers or more to pay at least 60% of the cost of their employees’ health coverage, or pay an annual fee of $750 per uncovered full-time worker and $375 for each part-timer. The size of the assessment is no accident; this is the amount that CBO estimated it would take to assure that companies that currently offer insurance don’t drop their coverage and dump their workers onto the government plan. (An earlier version of the bill, which did not have that kind of fee or any kind of requirement that companies cover their employees, would have resulted in 15 million workers seeing their employer-provided coverage discontinued, according to CBO.)

**The other component of that “shared responsibility” is an individual mandate–a requirement that people who are not covered by their employers go out and buy coverage for themselves and their dependents. These people will be able to buy that coverage on newly established exchanges–called Gateways–where a public plan will be one of the options offered. (And some people would get government subsidies to help them afford it. That element will be part of the Finance Committee bill.)

The public plan, of course, has been the issue that has gotten the most discussion from the left and the right. The version in the HELP bill (called the “Community Health Insurance Option”) won’t make either side completely happy, but it does represent an effort to bridge the divide. It won’t look like Medicare, exactly, particularly in the reimbursements that it pays health care providers. Where Medicare pays doctors and hospitals fees that are about 30% lower than most private plans do, this one will reimburse providers according to what is being described as “no more than the local average private rates — but could be less.” The rates would be negotiated by the HHS Secretary. And health care providers would not be required to accept patients enrolled under that public plan–which has been an important sticking point with the American Medical Association.

What does all of this mean? The public plan won’t be as powerful a tool to hold down health care costs as some of its most ardent advocates would have hoped. But it also won’t be as likely to drive hospitals, doctors and insurance companies from the bargaining table as health reform moves forward.

And here’s an important point that is likely to get lost in all the noise: Under the HELP Committee proposal, not everyone would have access to that public plan. If you have employer-provided coverage, as the majority of Americans do, you would not be allowed to opt out of it in favor of the public plan, unless your current coverage were deemed unaffordable (which is defined as costing more than 12.5% of your salary). By comparison, the version that is being drafted by three House committees would allow anyone who wants in to buy into the public plan after five years. (We still don’t know what the public plan will look like in the Senate Finance Committee bill, but the betting is that it will be a weaker version than either the HELP bill or the House one.)

Because this bill was released shortly before a holiday weekend, and in the middle of a congressional recess, we aren’t hearing a lot of reaction to it just yet. President Obama has issued a statement saying the bill “reflects many of the principles I’ve laid out, such as reforms that will prohibit insurance companies from refusing coverage for people with pre-existing conditions and the concept of insurance exchanges where individuals can find affordable coverage if they lose their jobs, move or get sick.” He also lauded the government-run plan as one that “would make health care affordable by increasing competition, providing more choices and keeping the insurance companies honest.”

But we will be hearing a lot more soon. Dodd hopes to have his bill passed by the committee as early as next week, and said he still thinks it is possible that the Senate will complete work on the bill by the time it leaves town for its August recess. Of course, whatever the HELP Committee does must be melded with whatever the Senate Finance Committee does. (We may see their bill next week.) It will be within the Finance Committee’s purview to not only write the provisions expanding Medicaid, but also to set the levels at which the government will subsidize Americans who would be required to purchase health insurance on their own. As a result of those two big-ticket items, the Finance Committee bill may well have a signficantly larger price tag. These are not small details, and ultimately, could determine the fate of the bill.

UPDATE: I received this e-mail from Steve Wymer, communications director for the Republicans on the HELP Committee, which adds this caveat to the claim that this bill would cover 97% of Americans:

Your coverage numbers look really similar to what Kennedy has released, but the CBO report is a more fair analysis. The CBO shows that 34 million people (12 percent of the population) will remain uninsured 10 years into the program. That means of the 54 million who would be uninsured in year 10 under their bill, only 20 million get covered.

In order for Kennedy/Dodd to claim that 97 percent of Americans are covered, they must assume a significant expansion of Medicaid. An earlier version of the legislation assumed Medicaid would expand up to 150 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) with the federal government assuming all costs for the first five years. If we assume this expansion for coverage purposes, it would only be fair to assume the hundreds of billions—likely approaching $500 to $700 billion—in costs that will come with it. This would put the total new spending in the Kennedy/ Dodd bill at $1.2 to $1.4 trillion. Additionally, CBO may include interactions that could drive the cost of the plan well above this estimate. And this is before hundreds of pages of public health grants are included in the cost.

Bottom line is that if they are going to claim credit for covering 97%, they also have to take the costs. Their bill spends $645 Billion and leaves 34 million uninsured. To get to 97% coverage, they have to expand Medicaid, which will cost several hundred billion more than the $600 they talk about.

UPDATE2: **This paragraph added, in response to commenter questions, to make it clearer that the plan also has an individual mandate.

Related Topics: Health Care
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  • gysgt213

    Thanks KT for hanging in there all the way with this.

  • bitterpill8

    Allow me to join you, Gunny, in thanking KT. I am going to spend time studying the report. So no comments until much later.

  • Karen Tumulty

    Thanks. My head hurts.

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks so much for covering what is the most important political story so far this year, KT. You are a Godsend.
    .
    And health care providers would not be required to accept patients enrolled under that public plan–which has been an important sticking point with the American Medical Association.
    .
    So when I get fired, lose my health insurance, and I am then required by law to purchase health insurance, I might be able to afford the public plan –so as to be in compliance with the law– but the public plan I can afford might not actually provide me with health care, because it won’t be accepted by health care providers?
    .
    Do I understand this compromise correctly?

  • Karen Tumulty

    SZ: Yep. I’m assuming that also means docs and hospitals don’t have to take public plan clients as a condition of being part of Medicare, though the summary doesn’t say that explicitly.

  • stuartzechman

    KT:
    .
    Thanks for confirming what seems to be inescapably true.
    .
    Honestly, you’d better get an award this year for this stellar work.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    So after all this, health-care providers need not accept those enrolled in the public plan? Then, can anyone explain what the point of this bill is? It appears to be appeasement. Nothing more, although maybe less.

  • Karen Tumulty

    Found it (Page 69):

    ‘‘SEC. 3106. COMMUNITY HEALTH INSURANCE OPTION.
    ‘‘(a) VOLUNTARYNATURE.— 2
    ‘‘(1) NO REQUIREMENT FOR HEALTH CARE 3
    PROVIDERS TOPARTICIPATE.—Nothing in this sec-4
    tion shall be construed to require a health care pro-5
    vider to participate in a community health insurance 6
    option, or to impose any penalty for non-participa-7
    tion. 8

  • pintortwo

    “…it also won’t be as likely to drive hospitals, doctors and insurance companies from the bargaining table as health reform moves forward.”
    .
    I’m not trying to be smug (maybe I just don’t understand), but wouldn’t the following be more accurate:
    .
    “…it also won’t be as likely to drive hospitals, doctors and insurance lobbies from making donations as health reform moves forward.”
    .
    Otherwise, what are they bargaining with?
    .
    .
    PS. Let me join the chorus in saying thank you KT.

  • 53_3

    Thanks, Karen (swelling the chorus still further, but out of tune).
    .
    I can see that it will just increase the load on the already overcrowded trauma centers, and God help you if you are rural, and a hundred miles from the nearest doctor accepting the public plan.
    .
    What the left hand giveth, the right hand uses to lubricate…

  • stuartzechman

    So after all this, health-care providers need not accept those enrolled in the public plan?
    .
    Actually –after all this– Americans will have even more reason to be afraid of losing their jobs than before.
    .
    Not only will they lose their employer-based health insurance that got them and their families access to doctors and hospitals, but they will be required by law to buy health insurance, and will be unable to purchase anything but public insurance that doesn’t give them and their families access to doctors and hospitals.
    .
    So when you get fired from your job, you can’t see a doctor anymore, and then you have to spend what little money you have buying worthless insurance from the government, or you’ll get fined.

  • davethompsonmpls

    If the public plan is paying the same rates as the insurance companies, I guarantee you that doctors and hospitals will accept those patients. It’s Medicare that drives providers nuts, because the reimbusement rates go down as the usage increases. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don’t (treat the senior).

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    might not actually provide me with health care, because it won’t be accepted by health care providers?
    .
    The key there will be how much the public plan is willing to pay the medical providers. If it’s adequate, there’ll be no reason for them to balk.

  • kathy

    Can this possibly be true? Thanks KT for all the time and mental energy you devote to this debate.
    .
    Stuart – won’t the people you’re talking about be eligible for medicaid?

  • 53_3

    “The version in the HELP bill won’t make either side completely happy, but it does represent an effort to bridge the divide.”
    .
    Here are videos, depicting another real, yet similar bridge:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/15/60minutes/main1129440.shtml

  • Karen Tumulty

    kathy: there are lots of places where doctors won’t take medicaid patients. sometimes with tragic consequences:
    .
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022702116.html

  • pafro

    Under the previous employer plan I had, they had a network and I couldn’t see anyone out of system. I was living in Wyoming, the closest dentist was in Colorado. This non-access thing is nothing new, and nothing particular to a public plan.
    There are plenty of horror stories about doctors spending countless hours of the day trying to get approval from a myriad of insurers for stuff as routine as x-rays. If this public plan pays anything close to market rates, and follows clear cut rules, I could see where there might be doctors who stop dealing with private insurers and all the games they play.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    KT
    .
    Thanks very much for the clearest summary I have seen. Looks like Dodd has done some fine work. The compromises will make it very hard for Bacaus, Lincoln, Landrieu justify a no vote on cloture.
    .

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    What I like best about this is that it has lots of room for adjustment and evolution.
    .
    One question, is it clearly the case that an employer can’t offer the public plan as one option?

  • Rorschach

    Thanks KT. This looks like good news

  • Ivy_B

    KT, Thanks so much. This looks like good news. As others have said if the reimbursement is decent, there will be no reason for doctors etc. to opt out of accepting it — particularly if it reduces the paperwork and permissions requirements.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    SZ
    .
    Did I miss a reference to an individual mandate? When I read this, I saw only an employer mandate.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    Jay
    ~
    According to the Kennedy/Dodd letter…
    Participation in the public option will be just that- an option for American consumers who will be able to decide which plan is best for their families. For the 47 million Americans currently living without health insurance, a public option will represent an opportunity to access quality, affordable care.
    ~

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    This is not to say, though, that those who do enroll in the public option will not encounter many access issues, as health care providers rs are not obligated to accept the public option.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Prediction. In the event, a bill like this will win GOP votes. Snowe for policy reasons. Others (like Gregg or (heh) McCain) for political reasons. 19 republicans up in 2010. They will not benefit from a vote against constituents and for insurance companies.

  • square1

    Can someone please explain to me why we insist on linking health insurance to employment? Health insurance used to be a perk that employers could provide to their employees more cheaply than employees could provide for themselves. But, if the express goal is universal coverage, why do we talk about “shared responsibilities” for employers?
    .
    It seems like an incredible bureaucratic waste to force employers to be in the business of insurance shopping. Why more “conservatives” don’t want businesses to focus on business and not H.R. administration is lost on me.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    This is a kind of tangential question/thought.
    .
    Could Chris Dodd’s work on getting this health care bill passed help get him reelected next year after all of the hits he has taken lately?
    .
    Something to consider. Peace

  • slinkerwink

    However, the $750 annual fee per worker and the $350 fee per part-time worker is cheaper than what employers currently pay for private insurance coverage. So why wouldn’t the employer eat the $750 annual fee per worker cost if they drop coverage and people go to the public option as a result? Is there something preventing this?

  • slinkerwink

    And also, would people with current individual policies be allowed to opt into the public option?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    Has there been any tax analysis on this. What sort of tax-hike will be needed on a $611 billion 10 year budget?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    I know the single-payer option was estimated to require a 12-13% income tax hike, which would be a considerable economic hit on lower-income households.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Exiled
    .
    I am not worried, under this very competent administration, about docs not accepting the surge in patients that the public option would provide, especially PCPs. It is hard to build a practice. A public plan would make it easier, and (I predict) you will see a shrinkage in the size of practices–that is, in the number of docs in a practice. I watched my brother build his solo practice after he left a larger practice. Medicaid patients were an important part of that initial build. And those patients represent less admin burden (more difficult patients, though, he says. Less compliant.) He is all for a public plan. Or a single payer plan FTM. PCPs hate the current system.
    .
    Moreover, it is essential, for fairness AND to pressure the public option plan that docs not be forced to accept public option patients. Just as FedEx and UPS have improved the postal service, real competition goes both ways. The current government subsidized insurance oligopolies are the worst possible situation.
    .
    On your quotation, that is still ambiguous. It seems to me that an employer could say “Hey, why do I have to offer only inferior , more expensive private products? Why can’t I offer this plan as an option to my employees. If they prefer to have less deducted out of their paychecks, why shouldn’t they be able to? I know that some of my employees will prefer coverage that offers good terms on out of network providers. I want to offer them that. But some of my employees may prefer the public option. Why can’t I pay the public option premium for my employees?”
    .
    I don’t know, from what I have seen so far, whether this is an issue or not.

  • kbanginmotown

    K-Tum: Still reading – like it so far.
    .
    Related question: You’ve made comments today and in the past that Senator Kennedy’s illness may negatively affect the chances of this legislation’s passage, since he has been championing health care reform since 1970.
    .
    Forgive me, and no disrespect to the Senator, but if he has not managed to get meaningful health care reform passed in the last 39 years, why is the cause hurt if he is not QB this time?
    .
    Might it not be a positive to have Kennedy on the sidelines, advising Sen. Dodd et al., rather than having him in the middle of the action attracting GOP opposition?
    .
    Just sayin’…

  • grape_crush

    .
    And health care providers would not be required to accept patients enrolled under that public plan–which has been an important sticking point with the American Medical Association.
    .
    Wouldn’t hospitals that are being forced to close or areas that don’t have medical services be able to stay open if they took those patients..albeit for less money?

  • pafro

    $611 billion is $60 billion a year. How much did those F-22′s that the Pentagon didn’t want but Congress tried to buy anyways cost? How much does the useless missile defense system cost?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    Jay
    ~
    From what I gather, employers cannot offer the public option.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    slinkerwink
    .
    It is clear that people with individual coverage could opt into the public option. Too bad for insurance companies, as these are high margin participants with no bargaining power.
    .
    On the opt out for $750 being clearly preferable, I am not sure about that. When I had (a small number of) employees, Oxford was charging me about 1000 dollars a month per employee. All single, childless. It would have been tempting to opt out. But I think larger employers get better pricing. And do keep in mind that employee contributions to premium payments are significant and rising. But if the number is too low, it can be adjusted. The principle is what’s key; if more expensive private coverage is better, then employers will not opt out, in order to recruit and retain employees.

  • Karen Tumulty

    SZ and Jayack: Yes, there is an individual mandate (and I will add that to the post), but the nitty-gritty details of it (for instance, the levels at which it will be subsidized by the govt) have to be worked out by Finance:
    .

    ‘‘SEC. 59B. SHARED RESPONSIBILITY PAYMENTS.
    ‘‘(a) REQUIREMENT.—Every individual shall ensure 17
    that such individual, and each dependent of such indi-18
    vidual, is covered under qualifying coverage at all times 19
    during the taxable year. 20

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Exiled
    .
    Yes, that is what I inferred. that’s why I put the question in the form of one expecting a negative response. (There’s a Latin particle that does that, but I can’t remember it.) But I would still like to know whether that is explicit.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    pafro
    ~
    That we have endured the burdens of military excess does not nullify the very real tax-burden that would be placed on lower-income households. If the purpose is to create accessible, affordable health-care for all, than it seems counter-intuitive to expect an already indebted household to overcome a tax-hike and still be able to afford a health-care policy, albeit cheaper.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    And, in light of KT’s latest post, an individual mandate ensures that this burden is not even an option, it is an explicit obligation. Forgive me if I am overly cynical, but there are millions of Americans who cannot afford a mandated (never mind that it is cheaper than what they would otherwise pay, had they chose to enroll in an already available private policy) health-care policy, coupled with increased taxation to cover the ‘global budget’ of such a system.

  • spob

    OT, but one thing I’ve heard would be a good idea is a mandatory ER visit co-pay, no matter what.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    Is health-care reform direly needed? Absolutely. But the answer is not to thrust upon the disenfranchised masses a mandated system that will only ensure greater financial burdens, possibly such that would entirely overwhelming already struggling households.

  • Karen Tumulty

    Have added this paragraph fairly high up. And thanks to commenter/editors:
    .
    The other component of that “shared responsibility” is an individual mandate: A requirement that people who are not covered by their employers go out and buy coverage for themselves and their dependents. These people will be able to buy that coverage on newly established state exchanges–called Gateways–where a public plan will be one of the options offered. (And some people would get government subsidies to help them afford it, though that element will be part of the Finance Committee bill.)

  • spob

    That WaPo story is a tear-jerker, but his mother obviously shares a lot of blame. What mom lets their kids teeth rot out like that?

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Thanks KT. Being clear about the individual mandate is important.
    .
    Nice seeing you on Mon/Tues. Good conference. (Personal Democracy Forum)

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    spob
    ~
    The impoverished mom.

  • spob

    The impoverished mom who failed miserably in her basic obligations to her children.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Can someone please explain to me why we insist on linking health insurance to employment?
    .
    It is a historical artifact. During WWII there was a wage freeze. In order to provide stealth compensation increases that were not “wages” companies were permitted to offer their employees health insurance benefits that were tax deductible as if they were cash compensation,but NOT taxable income to the employees.
    .
    90 percent of the effed up $#|+ in government policy stems from unintended consequences of short term policy decisions.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Don’t worry folks. We all know tha spob thinks poor people are all deadbeats who deserve all their misery and more. It’s his guiding philosophy.

  • FlownOver

    Karen:
    .
    Clearly you deserve a holiday weekend more than anyone else. Thank you so much for your dedication, thoroughness and clarity. If there’s not a Pulitzer in this for you there’s no justice.
    .
    It looks like the matter of providers accepting patients comes down to this:

    Where Medicare pays doctors and hospitals fees that are about 30% lower than most private plans do, this [public plan] will reimburse providers according to what is being described as “no more than the local average private rates — but could be less.” The rates would be negotiated by the HHS Secretary.

    I’m not sure I understand who the Secretary will negotiate these rates with, but it should be with a sufficient segment of the provider sector to assure significant provider acceptance. This is where Sebelius’s experience as a state insurance commissioner may really pay off – she has a solid background of knowing the point at which compensation become so limited as to push providers out of the market.

  • spob

    “Don’t worry folks. We all know tha spob thinks poor people are all deadbeats who deserve all their misery and more. It’s his guiding philosophy.”
    .
    Or spob is just pointing out that this tragic result was not just a failure of a government program or providers who don’t want “those” patients, but also the result of a lousy parent. Left unasked, of course, is whether the past 40 years’ “War on Poverty” has made more people less self-reliant and more dependent on the government thus increasing the incidence of tragedies like this one.

  • yutsano

    Don’t worry folks. We all know tha spob thinks poor people are all deadbeats who deserve all their misery and more. It’s his guiding philosophy.
    -
    If the Republicans want to have any kind of a future they need more Neos and fewer Spobs.

  • yutsano

    Left unasked, of course, is whether the past 40 years’ “War on Poverty” has made more people less self-reliant and more dependent on the government thus increasing the incidence of tragedies like this one.
    -
    Or how much worse health care would be for the poorest of the poor if Medicaid DIDN’T exist. You seem to think these programs were created to satisfy ideological whims Spob. The fact is between welfare and Medicaid we have somewhat of a floor on our poverty situation. Or maybe you think the slums of India are how modern societies are supposed to be.

  • FlownOver

    Exiled:

    How/why do we assume any increased tax burden would be imposed on those with lower income? I know the history of the past eight years was an increasing burden shift away from the wealthy, but what requires a continuation of that trend?

  • yutsano

    Thanks. My head hurts.
    -
    Let me join in the chorus of those thanking you for your tireless work on this KT. I hope you and the Swampkids enjoy the big show on the Potomac this weekend! You deserve to relax and not think about us for a few days.

  • spob

    yutsano, first of all, I didn’t say that Medicaid should never have been passed–what I was trying to point out is (a) the tragedy really isnt directly layable at the feet of failed government and (b) the possibility that the “War on Poverty” has reduced self-reliance in America, to the detriment of those receiving help.
    .
    You guys act like you want debate, but what you really want is an echo chamber.

  • ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©

    .
    If the Republicans want to have any kind of a future they need more Neos and fewer Spobs.
    .
    Right. Why buy just one pen!s extender when you can get two for the exact same price.
    ~

  • yutsano

    what I was trying to point out is (a) the tragedy really isnt directly layable at the feet of failed government and (b) the possibility that the “War on Poverty” has reduced self-reliance in America, to the detriment of those receiving help.
    -
    A) I think that saying that Medicaid is “failed government” is a huge stretch Spob. If anything, it’s what government should be doing for those that can’t help themselves, which brings me to:
    -
    B) self reliance only works if the playing field is completely level. It isn’t. Whether you like to admit it or not Spob there is not as much class mobility in the US as you would like to think. I’m not even going to get into institutionalized racism and the power of management over labor classes. I have no problem with someone working as hard as they can to get ahead but if you don’t know this woman’s exact life situation you just dismiss her as another lazy welfare queen. Not everyone has the life and advantages you have Spob. Stop acting like we all start out the same place in life, you’ll realize just how cold-hearted you sound.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    FO
    ~
    I think you misunderstood my point, which was not that a disproportionate burden would be placed on lower-income families. My point was that any public option or single-payer plan would inevitably raise tax rates, in the case of single-payer as much as 13%. While that would be equally levied across the populace, it is still a hefty burden on those already struggling to keep the electric on, the mortgage paid, and food on the table.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    Thunder
    ~
    Bravo! You’re intellectual prowess has graced this discussion and we all benefit infinitely from your presence.
    …Schmuck…

  • yutsano

    Bravo! You’re intellectual prowess has graced this discussion and we all benefit infinitely from your presence.
    …Schmuck…

    -
    Watch the Yiddish. ;)
    -
    One point on another you raised above Neo:
    -
    My point was that any public option or single-payer plan would inevitably raise tax rates, in the case of single-payer as much as 13%. While that would be equally levied across the populace, it is still a hefty burden on those already struggling to keep the electric on, the mortgage paid, and food on the table.
    -
    Don’t forget in this calculation that you are also subtracting those who pay partial premiums through their employer and those who purchase fully on their own. I’m not saying it would be a total wash, but the tax increase would at least be ameliorated by that fact.

  • FlownOver

    Exiled –

    We’re talking past each other. I still don’t see why any tax increase is necessarily “equally levied across the populace.” We still have a marginally progressive tax code, at least in theory, and Congress is empowered to decide what income levels are or are not subject to increased taxation. Imho it’s the possibility of an increase on the upper brackets that causes much pants-wetting and rabid opposition to any reform at all.

  • square1

    You guys act like you want debate, but what you really want is an echo chamber.
    .
    Actually, Spob, most people here don’t want debate for the sake of debate. They largely want to (a) hold the Swamplanders to account and (b) discuss issues intelligently with other commenters. Note: intelligent discussion does not equal debate and it is not necessary to disagree with people for the sake of discussion.
    .
    Left unasked, of course, is whether the past 40 years’ “War on Poverty” has made more people less self-reliant and more dependent on the government thus increasing the incidence of tragedies like this one.
    .
    Spob, you often get ridiculed, not (merely) for your views but because so often you are simply not describing reality.
    .
    Not only is the idea that government creates dependency in the underclass discussed, it is the dominant paradigm in D.C. today. It is a matter of gospel in the GOP. Blue Dog Democrats and DLC members regard it as an article of faith. And even liberal Democrats will give lip service to the importance of avoiding incentives that promote the dependency of poor people on government.
    .
    LBJ died over 35 years ago. Ronald Reagan launched an attack on the Great Society nearly 30 years ago and America hasn’t looked back. Bill Clinton pledged to “end Welfare as we know it” and proclaimed “the era of big government is over”. During the DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, Obama praised Ronald Reagan for his “transformative” ability to connect to Americans regarding the proper role of government: “I think [the American people] felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn’t much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating.”\
    .
    Good God, Spob, as Bill Maher said, “Obama? A socialist? He isn’t even a liberal.” The idea that America doesn’t demand self-reliance of the poor! Since when is calling poor people “welfare queens” taboo? Since when is any of this “unasked”?

  • yutsano

    Just as a matter of perspective, here is who Spob et al are defending:
    -
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/02/insurance.purging/index.html
    -
    There’s been a lot of cwap thrown around out there, but this took the cake for me.

  • ohiolib

    Why do I get the feeling this bill is going to be picked over and tweaked and compromised until it’s only marginally useful? Still, at least congress gets credit for trying to take on health care reform. And thank you KT for actually covering this.

  • ohiolib

    OK, here’s what I want to know: Why can’t the government offer a public option that operates on the same basic principles as a private company, not unlike how the US postal system works? It would make money through premiums, like a private company, and pay out when people make claims, like how private insurance companies are supposed to. Such a program would add competition and could easily be budget-neutral, and even if yous till have to deal with bean-counters, the government has far less of an incentive to not cover people than private insurers do.

  • yutsano

    OK, here’s what I want to know: Why can’t the government offer a public option that operates on the same basic principles as a private company, not unlike how the US postal system works?
    -
    Actually (and KT can correct me if I’m wrong on this) I think that was one of the options being offered as a public option, but I THINK it was part of the $1.6 trillion sticker shock plan. I could be wayyyy off base here though.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    yutsano
    .
    Yes, way off base. The reason this one scores better is mostly because of the public plan. Subsidizing people to buy private insurance, as in the other plan drafts, is much more expensive than subsidizing participation in a government plan.

  • yutsano

    Thanks Jay. In that case color me stupid. :P
    -
    But if that were to become the public plan as long as it didn’t become a dumping ground for the sick then I think a public plan that is self-sustaining by premiums and co-pays but no profit motive and no rejection of claims will have the private companies sweating bullets. And the end of their easy ride where they’ve been screwing over people left and right sits pretty well with me.

  • jonerik

    I know the single-payer option was estimated to require a 12-13% income tax hike, which would be a considerable economic hit on lower-income households.
    .
    A considerable economic hit? Is that snark or an attempt at comedy? You realize that health care issues dominate filings for personal bankruptcy and lock employees into jobs. Plus, 12-13% on the lower-income households your so worried about is almost surely far less than the cost of the health care they may or may not have.
    .
    I’m always so impressed with how concerned folks are about the terrible burden getting everyone healthcare will impose on the poor. The stupid. It hurts.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    Jonerik
    ~
    I’m speaking about those who do not have health care, cannot afford health care, and yet under this new HELP plan, would be mandated to get a public plan (which will cost money, albeit not as expensive), in addition to a significant tax hike. I am one of those people, so while from up on your elitist horse it may seem as if you are doing us a favor, you simply are not. I don’t have health care because I cannot currently afford it. The government forcing me into enrollment which I still have to pay for and for which I am taxed additionally will certainly not make me any more able to pay for it.

  • Karen Tumulty

    jayack and yutsano: this plan scores better primarily because of the fines imposed under the new employer mandate. in the earlier version, with no such play-or-pay provision, there was an incentive for companies to dump their workers (15 million of them, it was estimated) onto the public exchanges (where they would have become eligible for government subsidies, which cost the federal treasury a lot of money).
    .
    Also, as I noted above, this bill does not give the full picture of health reform and its costs. The Finance Committee will have to add two very big ticket items: those subsidies (they will decide, for instance, whether people qualify up to 300% of poverty, or 400% of poverty, or whatever) and a very big expansion of medicaid to deal with making sure the poorest Americans get coverage.
    .
    Also worth noting a point that doesn’t seem to have been clear to some commenters: the public OPTION will be just that. people who buy insurance through the new exchanges or “gateways” are also expected to have choices that include private insurance company policies. they will get a menu of options, sort of like federal employees do.

  • http://www.medcitynews.com/index.php/2009/07/congressional-health-committee-gets-reform-bill-down-to-611-could-medicare-reform-add-billions-medcity-morning-read-july-3-2009/ Congressional health committee gets reform bill down to $611. Could Medicare reform add billions? — MedCity Morning Read, July 3, 2009 : MedCity News

    [...] The health committee plan, which builds on one the CBO said a few weeks ago was too costly and would cover too few people, would create a public competitor for private health insurance plans and would require employers to offer coverage to employees or face penalties. Time magazine and CNN said that Republicans dispute the 97 percent coverage assertion. [...]

  • 53_3

    Exiled:
    .
    Thanks for relaying that on the tax hike on lower income Americans (12 to 13%).
    .
    I am not in that bracket any more, but I would be glad to pay that price.

  • towandavt

    Please spob…wars on poverty and this travesty they are trying to pawn off as healthcare are all about pretense and not real action. I don’t know wheter to scream, cry or try to escape to some civilized nation in Europe or Scandinavia where the healthcare system works, the daycare is reliable, education is supported by the government and the working class have a shot at staying off the street pushing a shopping cart.

    We need a national single payer system, we need a minimum wage that is a living wage, and we desperately need a way for our young people to get an education without going deep in debt. Its’ time to start a march on Washington again to get social programs that work, worthless wars ended and the corporate shills out of our government.

  • towandavt

    …and yes…I am prepared for the tax increase necessary to do those things because in the long run it will improve our quality of life. I’d rather see the money go into the community chest than the pockets of the people who brought us this economic disaster!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    KT – I be late, bu’ I be thankin’ ye too fer yer work on this!
    .
    I intends t’ be takin’ some time fer readin’ an’ digestin’ this version…an’ enjoyin’ me Independence Day weekend wi’ mi famiglia. I be sure there still be plenty o’ discussin’ t’ be done next week, me hearties!
    .
    Viva l’independenza!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • http://starcityharbinger.com/2009/07/06/oped-health-care-overhaul-must-include-both-public-option-and-tort-reform/ Star City Harbinger » OpEd: Health care overhaul must include both public option and tort reform

    [...] Congress.  The post compares the plans of the House Democrats and the House Republicans, the Senate Health et al Committee, the Senate Finance Committee, and ultimately the campaign promises of the Obama [...]

  • http://starcityharbinger.com/2009/08/20/health-care-reform-without-a-public-option-is-not-real-health-care-reform/ Star City Harbinger » SCH Health Care Reform Roundup

    [...] Congress.  The post compares the plans of the House Democrats and the House Republicans, the Senate Health et al Committee, the Senate Finance Committee, and ultimately the campaign promises of the Obama [...]

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