The McCain (and Palin) Campaign Apparently Isn’t Over

I don’t understand the finger-pointing.
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It’s not like the question” Was Palin a fresh talent whose debut was mishandled by self-serving campaign insiders, or an eccentric “diva” who had no business on the national stage?” doesn’t have an objective discernable answer. Palin’s selection was the turning point that revealed that McCain in fact had zero respect for the country or for the potential fallout of his actions.
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As for Randy Scheunemann, one need only read this link to get a full measure of his credibility and judgment of character: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june03/chalabi_05-07-03.html
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Stever Schmidt may indeed be the source attacking Palin. That only speaks to his basic sanity.

Two thoughts:
1. It is simply amazing that ANYONE can consider this empty head seriously for president. But then again…
2. Apparently the Republicans liked Bushonion idiocy, or how could they consider Palin seriously? Hopefully a responsible press will help expose this craziness.

If by “interesting” you mean completely frakking terrifying, then, yes, I agree. Thanks for the links.

Agree that the Martin piece had more news, at least for those of us who have followed Palin closely. Krystol and Scheunemann are exemplars – with Palin – of that old saw “birds of a feather flock together.”
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That Palin herself thought in any place in her mind that she could be President is truly frightening. It is delusional. But then, this is someone who acknowledged that she really didn’t know what the job of vice-president entailed, so there’s no reason to think she knows what the presidency involves, either.
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I wonder if John McCain will ever speak about the moment he realized that he was asking the country to jeopardize our future by electing him president. I suppose he will eternally figure it’s a matter of honor to avoid criticizing Sarah since he got her into this.
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(Andrew has let the bee out of his bonnet again over Palin’s pregnancy, which I agree was bizarre to the point of disturbing.)
Both articles were great fun to read.

I read the VF article yesterday and thought at the time a lot of the stuff in it had to be BS. But the Politico follow up certainly confirms that McCain’s campaign was totally dsyfunctional and McCain was not in charge of what was going on. Can anyone imagine what a McCain administration would have been like?

gunny – since the campaign I’ve regularly followed mudflats.com, an excellent Alaska blog. Most of the stuff in the VF article was reported contemporaneously, and it’s clear from the day-to-day Alaska stories that it’s all too true.

Billy Kristol had an unethical relationship with the McCain campaign. Well unethical any where except inside the beltway. He was way more involved than just a journal being leaked to. With the made up controversy surrounding the Huffington Post blogger getting to ask a question in the briefing room, I notice the villagers don’t seem to have a problem with Billy’s actions here. The villagers just seem to accept that whatever Billy did was perfectly acceptable.
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I would ask why this is. But, I know I will never get an answer.

[...] speaking of Sarah… Vanity Fair has a very interesting article about her run for VP.  Some McCain staffers said some not-very-nice [...]

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Gysgt213, I see your point. On the other hand, I’m perfectly happy to see the goopers continue to take Kristol’s advice seriously.
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I wouldn’t call the Purdum story even a little bit “dishy.” Palin’s significance is that her nomination was the stupidest, most reckless, irresponsible and flat-out insane political decision since Caligula appointed his horse to the Senate. That’s a big deal, and we would do well to understand how and why the media and his handlers tried so hard to cover up McCain’s crackpottery. McCain isn’t just a naked emperor — he’s a naked emperor covered in his own feces and howling at the moon. And Palin’s personality may be even sicker than his. The pathology of American politics ain’t pretty, and investigating it ain’t dishy.

As Sen. John Blutarsky wisely observed in his undergraduate days,
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FOOD FIGHT!
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Lesson for Democrats, particularly Senate Democrats: if your sole concern is self-aggrandizement you will neither accomplish anything nor look good.

“If John McCain’s team was like this on the campaign, it’s interesting to imagine what a McCain White House would have been like.”
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It probably wouldn’t have a slimeball like Eric Holder as AG, nor would it have a tax cheat as Treasury Secretary. Nor would it have a VP who inflates his academic record while telling others he’s more intelligent than they are. Finally, we wouldn’t have a Secretary of State giving cover to a thug trying to undermine the rule of law in Honduras. And we probably wouldn’t have a Chief of Staff who was a member of the board of directors of Freddie Mac while its accounting was, um, shall we say, creative.

Oh, and we probably wouldn’t have a senior advisor who put lipstick (“urban health initiative”) on the pig of thinly disguised patient-dumping. And we’d probably have a better press secretary.

So, you guys gonna troll rate me again?
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Any by the way, say what you guys want about Palin–she’s not in Quayle territory like Slow Joe Biden.

The one good thing about McCain putting Palin on his ticket is that it is highly unlikely that we will ever actually face her being President or V.P. Sure the base adores her still. But if that were enough to get you into the White House then she would be there now. Dems and Independents were terrified of her during the campaign and nothing she has done since has helped to offset that image.
I could see Alaskans voting her into the Senate, but that is as close as she is likely to get to the White House.

So if Palin’s excuse was postpartum depression, what was McCain’s?
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Frankly, while Palin was obviously more ignorant than McCain she seemed way less erratic and emotionally volatile. The only way one can argue otherwise is by relying on accounts of off-the-record events, which are notoriously unreliable and of course there are so many other accounts that talk about McCain’s emotional fragility. That particular criticism seems to be almost entirely reflective of sexism and in-fighting.
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Palin happens to be astonishingly ignorant, but I think the McCain campaign would have mismanaged her even if she had been as intelligent as say Romney or Jindal. (I’m just comparing her to her actual Republican competition, not Democratic candidates like Obama and HRC who actually knew what they were talking about.) They treated her like a Barbie doll with the clothes, the way they picked her in the first place (creating a Time cover with her picture on it) and their obvious disregard for her intellectual qualifications. And then when they started to hate her they treated her like an out of control hormonal Barbie doll and attributing absurd comments to her like the Africa thing and refusing to do the campaign event with the pro-choice politicians.
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I read the Runner’s World interview with Palin and I would be shocked if she won less than 20% of the vote in a Republican primary, especially since the GOP base is becoming even more crazy as more rational people leave it. But perhaps McCain accidentally saved his party by nominating her, because if she hadn’t run in 08 she probably would have been a stronger candidate in 2012.

“I would ask why this is. But, I know I will never get an answer.”
You know the answer perfectly well gunny – Kristol’s an Insider. Once you’re In, you’re In, and nothing really can damage that (other than, maybe, posting on a DFH blog).
The wild flailing going on, with its frantic, screaming hair-pulling and eye-scratching, is just the norm for these guys. Palin’s more than disturbing, and McCain recently spent a year showing that he has long since forfeited any grounds for respect by anyone not in his immediate family. Their surrogates’ savaging of each other is more like a kindergarten brawl than anything else – we need something with meat. When’s JNS coming out with her next sex-scandal story?

http://www.jumpstation.ca/recroom/comedy/python/argument.html

Oh, spobby;
We all have our problems, don’t we? I struggle with Pompous Writing Syndrome, and you have an apparently incurable case of Trollspeak. Well, I’m glad to see that you have embraced your disability – wallow in it, man! We need more posts about Obama’s birth certificate and his connection to the secret government demolition unit that took down the WTC, all of the recent passenger jets and the I35 bridge in Minn. Do your part for trolldom, spob, old boy!

“Palin happens to be astonishingly ignorant, but I think the McCain campaign would have mismanaged her even if she had been as intelligent as say Romney or Jindal.”
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As opposed to Joe “I’m Smarter than You” Biden or Barack “57 States” Obama?

Palin was such a left field choice of vice-president and a poor one at that. There was quite a few Republicans, myself included, who found Palin to be a huge mistake and one of the main factors that cost McCain the Presidency.
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I for one was not keen on McCain to begin with but at the time was less fond of Obama.
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However, a campaign is no litmus test for how an administration. With that said it certainly helps to have the strong support during the campaign to carry through into the presidency.
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@spob: “member of the board of directors of Freddie Mac while its accounting was, um, shall we say, creative.” Hilarious, made me chuckle. Whatever McCain’s administration would have been is all guessing, conjecture and hearsay. There is no way to really say what it would have been.

mrtoads, you struggle with a common affliction–douchebaggery–it’s an affliction that is an epidemic in here

“There was quite a few Republicans, myself included, who found Palin to be a huge mistake and one of the main factors that cost McCain the Presidency.”
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Palin wasn’t the problem.

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/01/who-railroaded-the-amtrak-inspector-general/
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I doubt we’d see this in a McCain Administration.

Spob, people consider you a troll because you consider political discussions to be a game. “Your side” takes a position, regardless of how indefensible, and you proceed to unleash a torrent of specious arguments simply because it serves a partisan agenda.
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If you would pause for a moment, you might take note that nobody here is a rubber stamp defender of Obama or Congressional Democrats.
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Palin? Palin?!? I’m sorry, but that pick was indefensible. I’m sure if you asked any Democrats here, they would be more than happy to discuss the many campaign blunders made by Mondale, Dukakis, Gore or Kerry. I would never deny a political mistake simply because it was made by a Democrat. Anyone who is incapable of admitting or recognizing that picking Palin was a hideous campaign mistake by McCain has zero credibility.

Hey KT,
Do you know what the posting rules are here? I know it’s not permissible to use certain words (although I don’t get the logic of the particular word choices). What about personal attacks and insults? Or too-frequent posting?
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Just idly curious.

sqr1, Palin was NOT the problem at all. She faced a hostile media and handled it well. She drew Biden in a debate, which was quite an accomplishment, given his long time in the Beltway and the fact that he lied through his teeth during the debate.
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And by the way, guys, Palin’s smart enough to know that cap and trade will jack up energy prices and be a job-killer–something which has apparently escaped JNS (who thinks that the whole world is regulated by Kyoto), Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi.

hellslittleangel, lighten up–you’ve engaged in personal insults in here too.

and sqr1, the blunders of the Dukakis campaign really aren’t up to a whole lot of discussion–the tank commercial pretty much sums them up. Dukakis also had the problem of having a record that included support for letting convicted murderers get weekend passes.

Palin was NOT the problem at all
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I suggest that the credibility of all HWSRN’s pronouncments be measured against that little nugget.

Malkin. Your credibility climbs by the second.
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Incidentally, Spob, the GOP will never regain power until it learns to stop merely preaching to the converted. To actually win people over requires gaining credibility on issues.
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Take your attacks on Michelle Obama. Although she is not an elected official (and thus her “record” is significantly less important that the records of Obama and his administration), I am not going to deny that I would be seriously disappointed if I found out that she was enabling or directing illegal, or even merely improper and unethical, health care practices.
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Having said that, I have zero interest in even taking a cursory look at what you allege? Why? Not because I put Michelle Obama on a pedestal and believe her to be incapable of impropriety. But because sources like Michelle Malkin have a proven track record of creating or distorting any fact in order to attack Democrats. There is no credibility there.
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Furthermore, the GOP has zero credibility in general regarding concerns about the medical treatment that minorities receive. Does anybody believe that the GOP cares about a hospital insufficiently spending on charity for minorities? Does anybody believe that the GOP cares about patient dumping?
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Spob, it is so obvious that the GOP couldn’t give a flying f— about how many minorities in Chicago drop dead from inadequate or insufficient health care treatment unless they can use it as a club to attack political rivals.
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Until you and the rest of the GOP make me (and every other objective American) believe that you will not make bad faith arguments at the drop of a hat, you will be considered a troll and the GOP will remain a minority party.

PD, McCain was the problem. Hell, you guys won with Biden, who is so bad, Quayleisms should be called Bidenisms.

Palin’s selection was the turning point that revealed that McCain in fact had zero respect for the country or for the potential fallout of his actions.

“Take your attacks on Michelle Obama. Although she is not an elected official (and thus her “record” is significantly less important that the records of Obama and his administration), I am not going to deny that I would be seriously disappointed if I found out that she was enabling or directing illegal, or even merely improper and unethical, health care practices.”
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Here I was talking about David Axelrod, who IS a close advisor to the president.
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Malkin’s credibility is considerably higher than the MSM, see, e.g., Duke Lacrosse and the Jena Six.
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As for the GOP “caring”? Well, I’d say that results count. Compare the record of say David Dinkins and Rudy Giuliani.
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“Spob, it is so obvious that the GOP couldn’t give a flying f— about how many minorities in Chicago drop dead from inadequate or insufficient health care treatment unless they can use it as a club to attack political rivals.”
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And Bill Clinton responded so quickly to the heat deaths of over a thousand people in Chicago?

I also agree that McCain was the main problem. His bumbling when the economy was clearly falling off the cliff, some of those t.v. ads he allowed to run, trying to suspend the campaign. All of it showed a man who was erratic and not best suited for the Presidency. Palin was just the insult to the injury.

The Democratic Party would absolutely love to see Sarah Palin as the GOP candidate for President in the next election. Palin can begin by explaining why she gave the welcoming address to a secessionist group. Palin’s speech pattern will make people forget about Quayle.

Spob,
I usually regret acknowledging you in any way, but I do have a question: do you think Sarah Palin would be a great choice for President? Not “do you like her better than Obama or Biden,” not “is she a good conservative ideologue,” not “do you like her personally.”
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Do you honestly think she’s the best person the GOP could put forward?
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Also, while I’ll concede that Joe Biden seems to enjoy the taste of his loafers, the “57 state” thing is idiotic. (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp)

I don’t be understandin’ why this be important, other than t’ keep remindin’ us o’ Palin’s complete unacceptability fer Pres or VP in th’ future…an’ by th’ time she be attemptin’ t’ do tha’, all this will be old(er) news than it be now. Can’t we be savin’ it fer later, when we be needin’ it?
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I don’t be carin’ why or how or wha’ th’ consequences were regardin’ Palin, other than th’ one tha’ be o’ th’ most import – tha’ THEY LOST!
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Fer cryin’ out loud – Jackson, Sanford, now this…be there not anythin’ o’ actual relevance happenin’ t’ be reportin’ on?
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Like th’ release o’ more torture reports?
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‘r wha’ were happenin in th’ health care reform mark up?
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‘r wha’ be happenin’ in Iraq an Iran?
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‘r th’ apparent death o’ campaign finance reform?
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‘r even th’ earthquake we were feelin’ this morn’ on me lovely island – th’ rattlin’ an’ rollin’ fer a few seconds thar ‘ad way more effect on me than this slimy old Palin gossip-fest.
I be likin’ dishin’ just as well as anyone, bu’ this is gettin’ older than moldy fish porridge, mates!
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Arrgh!

Spongy –
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Go f yerself!
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Arrgh.

Spob, Biden is known for being a loose cannon. But nobody thinks he is stupid or uninformed (other than you, apparently).
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Comparing Biden to Palin in terms of qualifications for POTUS or VPOTUS is a joke. But, you know what? Prove me wrong. Please, please, please nominate Palin in ’12. Nothing could make me happier.
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And Bill Clinton responded so quickly to the heat deaths of over a thousand people in Chicago?
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FWIW, saying “yes, but what about [insert Democratic politician here]?” is a poor tactic for convincing people that the GOP cares about an issue. At most, with sufficient evidence, I might be persuaded that a given Democratic politician is as bad as the GOP. But it is not going to make me believe that the GOP has any credibility.

In my view, Palin’s instincts are right. She would be better than Obama and certainly Biden. I don’t think she’s as bright as Jindal or Clinton. She would need help in the foreign policy arena. Of the four McCain, Palin, Obama and Biden, I’d choose her to be Prez over any of them, and by a country mile.
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In my view John McCain = Michael Dukakis.

That article gives a new, disturbing meaning to the expression “Ignorance is strength”. On the other hand, nothing would make me happier than the nomination of Sarah Palin to the R ticket in 2012. Not only would she drag down the party nationally (again) but the Daily Show wouldn’t have to work for fresh material

square1 – Could we be so lucky as having an Obama v. Palin slugfest? Her Runner’s World interview was metaphorically perfect:
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“What I lacked in . . . strength and skill, I made up for in determination and endurance!”
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If they nominate Palin, 2012 will be a fun year

Andrew Sullivan nails it perfectly on the VF Palin article…

“As the months have gone by since John McCain revealed his total cynicism and contempt for America’s national security by selecting one Sarah Palin to be a potential vice-president of the United States, we have learned that every single ghastly attribute we discovered in the campaign is worse than we thought at the time.

The narcissism, the pathological and incessant lying, the viciousness, the delusions of grandeur, the vindictiveness, the fathomless and proud ignorance, the opportunism, the vanity, the white trash concupiscence and fraudulence in almost every respect: these are now indisputable. How an advanced democracy came that close to having this farce of a candidate running the most powerful country on earth reveals how deep the corruption of our politics and especially our media are.”

Instincts are great . . . knowledge is better. And a strong combination of the two is best. Which is why I voted for Barack Hussein Obama.

sqr1, are you kidding? Biden is a joke. His “Iraq est divisa in partes tres” qualifies him as an idiot.
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Here’s what Biden had to say about a Supreme Court decision, and this from a man on the Judiciary Committee:

“I’ll tell you why I criticized the Supreme Court. They upheld the ban, and then they engaged in what we lawyers call dicta that is frightening. You had an intellectually dishonest rationale for an honest justification for upholding the ban, and that was this: They went further, and then they, in the language associated with the decision said, by the way, they blurred whether there is the first trimester and third trimester in how much—I know this is going to sound arcane to the listeners—but whether or not they blurred the distinction between the government’s role in being involved in the first day and the ninth month. They blurred the role in terms of whether or not there is—they became paternalistic, talking about the court could consider the impact on the mother and keeping her from making a mistake. This is all code for saying, “Here we come to undo Roe v. Wade.” And it went on to say, by the way, that the life of the mother was, in fact, permissible exception, and it went on to say that even—that any woman could challenge, even if her health is at risk, could come back to the court to challenge that. So the bottom line here is, what they did is not so much the decision, the actual outcome of the decision, it’s what attended the decision that portends for a real hard move on the court to undo the right of privacy. That’s what I’m criticizing about the court’s decision.”
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The man’s a fool.

BHO’s instincts leave much to be desired–raising the cost of energy in a deep recession is not my idea of good instincts.

Spob -
Your energy costs gone up yet? Neither have mine . . . How’s about waiting for something to happen before you start b!tching?

vw, have you checked gas prices lately–”Drill Baby Drill”

Yeah, Spob, and those gas prices went up under Bush . . . so far, they are at a lower summer average under Obama. Or don’t you remember $4.25 gas last summer, when former-oil-company-executive Bush was President? Selective amnesia, maybe?

VW, don’t try arguing with spob unless you have multiple sources you can directly answer with. Otherwise, you’ll just get a fancy version of “I know you are, but what am I?”

Yeah, OhioLib, I hear ya. I’m used to people using their, you know . . . brains? . . . when debating a position, so his slippery, 3-year-old-on-the-playground mentality is disconcerting. The optimist in me wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but the pragmatist thinks I should join the chorus of “Spongy, go F’ yerself.”
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Arrrrr!!!

@spob: that is why I said “one of” there were several other issues that McCain and McCain alone owns. I was just stating that Palin made it worse and in no way helped the campaign.
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I am not saying Palin is an idiot, just not a wise choice.
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One thing people, who are in and follow politics, never seem to overcome…separating a person who leans or identifies with a party and the main-line party. Just because I am a Republican does not mean I agree with everything that the GOP party or any Republican is doing or has done. The same goes for my best friend, who happens to be more of a Democrat. He does not always agree with everything his party does or a member of it. It does, however, at times aide in the political process, but it also fogs up the genuinely excellent public servants that should maintain an office, from those of an opposite party.
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Did you know that in Dallas County several Judges were voted out of their chair in 2006 due the fact that they have to list a political affiliation and the main political move by the DNC telling voters to vote straight ticket and vote out the GOP, vote out the Bush Administrations lackeys? A Judge in county court has no merit or weight on the war in Iraq. So vote for the person not just the party.

Spob: I assume that you disagree with Biden’s views on abortion, a right to privacy, etc. Fine. That doesn’t make his legal analysis wrong. And you failed to demonstrate that it was wrong. Calling someone stupid is not a legal argument.
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This is where I repeat that you have no principles. I wouldn’t have a problem (although I might strongly disagree) if you said that — as a matter of principle — a President must have an exceptional grasp of Constitutional Law in the most critical areas. If you said that Biden was not qualified because he lacked such a grasp of Con Law, I might disagree but at least you would have a coherent position.
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But to dismiss Biden as a fool because you don’t like his analysis of dicta in a case and then hold up Palin — who is already on record as being unable to even NAME a case besides Roe v. Wade that she disagrees with — as more qualified…it is hard to imagine a less principled and more idiotic position.
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Seriously. Does anyone on the planet think they could have a 10 minute discussion with both Palin and Biden and leave with the sense that Palin has a greater understanding of Constitutional Law?

My post got eaten for some reason, so let me just summarize and say: Republicans- please please pretty please nominate this obvious lightweight Sarah Palin to run against President Obama in 2012. That will make Walter Mondale’s historic beatdown in 1984 look like a joy ride. I’m pretty sure she could carry Alaska, though.

Oy… please, please, guys. Spob, rusty, and, I dunno, hulagate, are all sitting in an abandoned bus in Arizona with a “Kno gurlz aloud” sign sharing one Compaq Presario. Don’t play ball with the backstops. Spob, it’s your turn to retape the door…
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The real question… and this is to you KT… is why we’re revisiting ancient history that is becoming more and more irrelevant to the path of U.S. politics with each passing day.

@piper1: yeah sorry to disappoint. I am going to save my vote for someone he I think is capable for the position to the degree any really can.

@square1: unfortunately, politics always ends up becoming a mudslinging contest and it is usually impossible to have a decent conversation with people who have diverging opinions.

lostepic- preview is your friend. I think I got what you were trying to say though.

Is it just me or is this a complete non-issue? Conjecturing as to what a failed campaign’s administration would have looked liked is an irrelevant hypothetical. During the campaign season an analysis of this nature would have been reasonable. However, now it serves no purpose. McCain lost the election. Obama is the President.

vastwastelander-
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Ahoy, matey! Ye be understandin’ complete regardin’ spongy! All anyone needs t’ be sayin’ t’ ‘im (an’ rusty an’ hula) be “go f yerself!” Even tha’ be provokin’ a storm o’ response, bu’ a pirate loves t’ d’liver a taste o’ t’ 9-tails, don’t ye be knowin’.
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Arrgh!

of course, vw, you do realize that if Bush had his way, there’d be more refineries and more drilling, which would have exerted downward pressure on gas prices.

“Not only would she drag down the party nationally (again) but the Daily Show wouldn’t have to work for fresh material.”
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Well, more GOP disaster is bound to be good for the country and I like Jon just fine but neither of those are good enough reasons to put Palin on a national ticket again. OTOH, there is one good reason: Tina “I can see Russia from my house” Fey!

“I’ll tell you why I criticized the Supreme Court. They upheld the ban, and then they engaged in what we lawyers call dicta that is frightening. You had an intellectually dishonest rationale for an honest justification for upholding the ban, and that was this: They went further, and then they, in the language associated with the decision said, by the way, they blurred whether there is the first trimester and third trimester in how much—I know this is going to sound arcane to the listeners—but whether or not they blurred the distinction between the government’s role in being involved in the first day and the ninth month. They blurred the role in terms of whether or not there is—they became paternalistic, talking about the court could consider the impact on the mother and keeping her from making a mistake. This is all code for saying, “Here we come to undo Roe v. Wade.” And it went on to say, by the way, that the life of the mother was, in fact, permissible exception, and it went on to say that even—that any woman could challenge, even if her health is at risk, could come back to the court to challenge that. So the bottom line here is, what they did is not so much the decision, the actual outcome of the decision, it’s what attended the decision that portends for a real hard move on the court to undo the right of privacy. That’s what I’m criticizing about the court’s decision.”
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sqr1, the above is simply incoherent . . . .

“If John McCain’s team was like this on the campaign, it’s interesting to imagine what a McCain White House would have been like.”
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Only if you find imagining Armageddon, economic catastrophe, social conflagration or other man-made disasters “interesting.”

“I am not saying Palin is an idiot, just not a wise choice.”
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It really didn’t help trying to push “OJT for VP’s” while there was intense criticism of Obama for “inexperience”.
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As one can see since then, hypocrisy was readily recognized…

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Here is a blog that treats Michelle Malkin posts with the respect they are due.
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All others, take a lesson.
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wow! what a smear job the VF piece is — full of beltway approved classism and sexism (for instance, the caption to an unflattering picture of Palin and Cindy McCain is about how the two were “not soulmates”. Has anyone every suggested that Joe Biden and Michele Obama were, or should be, soulmates? Or that Dick Cheney and Laura Bush were soulmates? Of course not — Palin was the VP candidate, but VF can’t help by reduce her to the status of “2nd wife” who doesn’t get along with the “primary” wife.)
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its obvious that the beltway despises Palin because Palin refuses to suck up to them — much in the same way that the beltway despise the Clintons because they refused to play their game.

Gee, Spob, Biden says that the Court got the right result for the wrong reason and that the flawed reason they gave opened the door to attacks on Roe in the future. Agree or disagree, Biden’s statement is only “incoherent” if you are incapable of reading the English language.

“You had an intellectually dishonest rationale for an honest justification for upholding the ban”
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yeah, that’s coherent . . . .
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“They blurred the role in terms of whether or not there is—they became paternalistic, talking about the court could consider the impact on the mother and keeping her from making a mistake.”
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yeah and that too

plukasiak, you’d probably like this feminist review of the VF article.

PLEASE STOP RESPONDING TO SPOB.

ifthethunderdontgetya:
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That’s a typical butt-rocket flameout, thunder!
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Coupled with more than a few attitude-control module problems, I’d say. Gyros out?
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Absulartly wonderful!

I think the GOP really should go with Palin/Limbaugh in 2012.
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Yesssss! (pumping fist in air)

Fitty, I read both your posts before I went to eat lunch, so I’m just going to declare you a tease and go eat Greek food now.

oh, sh!t, yuts!
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I never thought of it that way. All this political correctness these days…

Three things:
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1- Though I didn’t think Palin was the best choice (if he wanted a woman, he should’ve gone with Hutch…but being from Texas, MAYBE I’m biased), she wasn’t a drag on the ticket. In fact, despite conventional wisdom, exit polls showed that Palin gained McCain many more votes than she lost for him.
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2- It’s not that uncommon for President and Vice President candidates to not be friendly with each other. Anyone remember Kerry and Edwards?
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3- In 2008, the candidate who talked moderate but was not moderate won over the guy who talked non-moderate but actually was moderate. Obama ran a slick, smart campaign.

@ spob– have you checked gas prices lately–”Drill Baby Drill”
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Thank you. You have perfectly captured the essence of Why the GOP Has No Credibility (and Media Productions too).
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ANWR is an economic non-event. The Bush-appointed Energy Information Administration reported the following:
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With respect to the world oil price impact, projected ANWR oil production constitutes between 0.4 and 1.2 percent of total world oil consumption in 2030, based on the low and high resource cases, respectively. Consequently, ANWR oil production is not projected to have a large impact on world oil prices. Relative to the AEO2008 reference case, ANWR oil production is projected to have its largest oil price reduction impacts as follows: a reduction in low-sulfur, light (LSL) crude oil prices of $0.41 per barrel (2006 dollars) in 2026 in the low oil resource case, $0.75 per barrel in 2025 in the mean oil resource case, and $1.44 per barrel in 2027 in the high oil resource case. Assuming that world oil markets continue to work as they do today, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) could neutralize any potential price impact of ANWR oil production by reducing its oil exports by an equal amount.
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Basically, if Congress allowed drilling in ANWR the price of oil could be lowered between less-than $0.01 and $0.04 per gallon (there are 44 gallons per barrel) in about 20 years. Further, as the captured oil would be available on the open market (it is not America’s oil, it would be Exxon’s [or whichever multi-national conglomerate] for sale to the highest bidder, if OPEC wanted to maintain the price of oil, they would have to simply reduce their own production.
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Of course, the GOP argument ignores also the political and ecological impact of our oil dependency.
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ANWR was never serious policy- it was a ploy to garner votes. And the GOP’s enablers in Establishment Media never called them on it.

ANWR’s not the only place to drill, and it creates jobs, balance of trade, tax revenues . . . .
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Drill baby drill

It seems like we’re in permanent campaign mode. I’m not thrilled about it, but I can live with it. The Vanity Fair article was a hatchet job, but they were talking about a hatchet. The whole Palin episode had a nice Fellini quality to it. A little surreal, bizarre and it left you wondering what it was all about. With both Bush and Barack to run against, McCain had little choice but to go with someone who could compete (charisma-wise) with Obama.
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Sarah energized a base that had little use for the guy on the top of the ticket. Her crowds dwarfed McCain’s. John might have thought they could invigorate the base and control the message. A better job of vetting should have cleared that up, but McCain ran a terrible campaign from start to finish. Why would his VP pick be expected to be anything other than just another FU?
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The republicans are in a down cycle and I have a hard time believing they honestly think they have much of a shot at the White House in 2012. They have to pick someone to run in 2012 that isn’t going to be tarnished by getting their ass kicked in the election. Why pick a good future prospect and have them get “loser” stamped on their forehead? Palin probably isn’t it. Jindal either. Newt does seem to be a good pick. Not too crazy and he’s taken fairly seriously. No loss to the party if he gets trampled. He’s history anyway.

sacredh:
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As much as they seem to like Palin, she would not hold up under the scrutiny of a complete presidential campaign.
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There are numerous self-incriminating videos, quotes, and documents from which to draw, and lets just say that her family’s ties to the AIP will be a tremendous liability.

53_3: I’d like to say I completely rule out any real shot Sarah has at the republican nomination, but I’m not 100% convinced we can do that. The primaries are the playground of the fervent base and they LOVE Sarah. I have my doubts that a “serious” republican contender would take Palin to the mat because he’d alienate the biggest faction they have.
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They’re still in meltdown mode and you have to consider that a candidate for them with a bright future might be wanting to wait out the nervous breakdown their party is going through and look at 2016 as being a better opportunity. Letting the right wing evangelicals have a final shot in 2012 may look appealing to them. Chances are they’re going to get creamed anyway.

Hmmmmm….thinkin’ o’ th’ possibilities o’ a “documentary”…”Sarah – the Movie”.
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I do be lovin’ me some turn’bout fair play!
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Arrgh!

pirate wench: It’s already been done. We called it the Beverly Hillbillies.

sacredh:
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“I’d like to say I completely rule out any real shot Sarah has at the republican nomination, but I’m not 100% convinced we can do that.”
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The emphasis is where my brain fart occurred. Of course, getting the GOP nomination is the easy part. I was referring to the general election run-up. Some of those movies would play very well in certain “corners” of the GOP…

Please don’t be comparin’ Sarah t’ Ellie May – it be a ri’ bloody insult t’ Ellie!
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So…McCain’d be Mr Drysdale?
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Arrgh!

53_3: It’s hard to imagine the republican party being a serious threat in the general election unless Obama screws up royally. Even then it would depend on who the opposition is. I have my doubts that Sarah could even carry all the states that McCain won. 2012 looks more like a game within a game to me.
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Winning the republican primary is probably the most a republican can shoot for 2012. If Obama is even halfway decent, I don’t think the really serious contenders are going to give it more than a half-assed effort. Letting Sarah get the nod and then get her ass kicked may remove her from any serious national contention for good. That may be more beneficial for the party in the long run than anything else they have brewing.

If Mr. Drysdale could remember which house he lived in…maybe. Todd is Jethro. Instead of a still they have a meth lab.

sacred:
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I think their base (a la the likes of spob, rusty, and hula and dittoheads in general) will probably benefit from the arsewhapping they are likely to get. Only a defeat of one of their favorite candidates will convince them that the GOP has something more than just an image problem.
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PD and a couple others on a couple others do have a point though, and that is that Obama has been put to such high standards that if he can’t deliver on most of his promises, and do it in timely fashion, the instant-gratification portion of the vote may leave.
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There is something to be said for that concern…

53-3: I disagree. Even though he’s being held to such a high standard, you’re still running against a party that is in complete chaos with no leader, no ideas and candidates that are the butt of jokes. I don’t think President Obama has to deliver on most of his promises. I think even a third (or possibly less) is a winning hand.
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He’s drawing huge crowds abroad and whether people admit it or not, what the rest of the world thinks of us does matter to most of us. The best they can come up with against Obama is teleprompter nonsense, Michelle disgracing the country by going sleeveless and taking his wife to New York for a date. I worry more about asteroids hitting my house than I do about a republican resurgence.

Even though he’s being held to such a high standard, you’re still running against a party that is in complete chaos with no leader, no ideas and candidates that are the butt of jokes.

Unfortunately, this sounds like the democratic party about 80% of the time. The danger is that the dems get complacent and Obama doesn’t get enough done (Sorry Sacredh). If that happens, the paranoid RW base, convinced Obama is just waiting for his chance to sell us out to the Communists/Mexicans/Villian of the Day, will turn out while the dem base sits at home. If that happens, Obama will indeed have a problem.

vw, in all goodwill, just cut spob off. Life really is better when you are troll-free. The sensation is akin to getting free of the flu. No more fever, you sleep better,and you can get so much more done!
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The Palin piece struck me as mostly warmed-over, though true, episodes that most of us have already heard about. What was new, and even entertaining,was the obvious internal civil war at McCain HQ. If only we knew when McCain first realized that he had made the worst of many epic mistakes in choosing an unqualified, arrogant, and patently dishonest running-mate. I believe Andrew Sullivan has reached 28 in his count of clearly identifiable Palin Porkies.

@ spob 6:05 (too busy to respond earlier)
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You’re original quote started with “have you checked gas prices lately”. The GOP has misled the public into believing that drilling now will have an immediate effect at the pump- it will not (post at 3:31). It will have a negligible effect, if any, some twenty years down the road. The RNC knows this. “Drill baby drill” is a lie. It’s a rallying cry against libruls. It symbolizes how the GOP would rather win elections than govern effectively (why do they hate America?).
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Yes, democrats crave the same lobby-money as republicans; but I’m hopeful (not quite optimistic) that a democratic administration is more likely to act in our best interest.
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ANWR’s not the only place to drill…
Correct, there is plenty of land already approved for exploration, why would the GOP want to drill on a Federal nature preserve?
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and it creates jobs,…
So do wind turbines, solar panels and biofuels. In fact, rather than creating jobs in some remote wilderness or on an oil rig miles off-shore, they can create jobs anywhere (thus supporting that area).
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balance of trade,…
You still will have to buy oil on the open market. Creating energy from alternative sources means less oil purchased. Further, non-crop biofuels can be used to create a gas alternative to power engines (for instance). That fuel belongs to US companies and can be sold domestically or to other countries. The technology can also be exported.
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tax revenues.
The alternatives will create more tax revenue as the companies and employees spend money locally.
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Breaking from oil will mean less war, less military spending. The alternatives will not produce harmful emissions.
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I’m not against domestic drilling, per se. I just know we can do better.

“I worry more about asteroids hitting my house than I do about a republican resurgence.”
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Just remember, so did the dinosaurs!
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Only there were no houses back then, just food laying around here and there…

“”He has always been a guy who has stuck with what he believes in, even if everyone else is against him,” the source said.”
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That must be a quote from that “White Horse souse” that I heard about a while ago. Defiance!
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http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/01/sanford-ally-governor-remains-defiant/
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Stay the course and fock reality in the rear end! Upwards and onwards!
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Oooof!
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Damn, that hurt…

ohiolib: Or should I say “fellow ohiolib”? I disagree with the idea that if Obama doesn’t accomplish enough that the base will stay home. They’ll still vote if it comes down to the possibility that a right winger might take the presidency and put us back to where we were under Bush. Getting a significant part of what liberals want versus nothing of what we want under a conservative administration will be enough to make liberals vote.
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On the off chance that Sarah would get the nomination, I’d expect the turnout to be every bit as high as it was this time. If it comes down to Obama that the left sees as underperforming or taking a chance that Palin could get in, there just isn’t anyway that liberals or moderates are going to sit at home instead of hitting the polls. We may not be as enthusiastic about it, but we’ll still not take the chance of a Palin or Newt getting elected.

sacred:
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We had Ellen Craswell face off against former governator Locke in the ’80s, as I recall. She was every bit as far right as Palin, but smarter. Back then, she stated that “the Republican plan is God’s plan” and other such tasty tidbits to please the fundamentalists.
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She garnered all of 36% of the votes, in a state that has a fairly liberal record, during a time when the GOP was a rising force.
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Given that, and the caveats by PD and pintortwo among others, you might be right.
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We still might become our own worst enemy, however…

53_3: I agree that we’re usually our own worst enemies. OTOH, as long as I’ve been following politics I have never seen a party go as crazy (in either direction) as the republicans have the last few years. You look at Palin and Plumber and it’s amazing that have any voice at all in the party let alone the coverage they have been getting. Joe is more of a one hit wonder, but someone as flat out ignorant as Sarah should have been tossed on November 5th.
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Jindal doesn’t worry me. If anyone honestly thinks a man with dark skin, a first name like Piyush and the son of immigrants from India has a shot with the evangelical bubbas in the red states, they’re not part of the base that gets republicans elected. Sarah’s nuts but has a chance at the nomination. Newt has more baggage than Madonna on a world tour and Romney is a Mormon. He spent tons of cash and couldn’t even beat Huckabee when it counted. It’s either going to be someone out of the blue or it’s over before it starts.

sacred:
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The same goes for me on the group insanity. I think that the politics of the last 50 years will be fertile ground for anthropologists and social scientists, as well as psychiatrists and psychologists. I’m not kidding! I’ve never seen anything like it, either.
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I don’t Jindal is going to fly either. He’s already got a ton of self-incriminating tapes and documents of his own reflecting outright ignorance in some areas. He’s only good for those GOPers that waved Obama monkeys at Palin rallies and want everyone else to believe they weren’t racist by voting for him.
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Which is typical of how the GOP has handled race relations these same span of years. He’s only slightly better than Alan Keyes.