Michelle, Ma Belle des Magasins

Michelle Obama should have taken the girls for a stroll in the Luxemburg Gardens instead. She will never here the end of this now.

Sorry, that should be Luxembourg Gardens.

Was Sarkozy really embarrassed or was this an excuse to introduce the law? I’m thinking it’s the latter.

Hmm, sounds to me like this will create jobs, indeed, that is a bad thing.

“Vivre le shopping”–if you’re going to write in French, get it right. It’s “Vive”, not “Vivre”.
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“There is a ban in France, a Catholic country, on working the day God rested.”
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The maintenance of the Sunday work ban has little to do with France’s Catholicism.

I don’t want to single out Michelle Obama, but this story is indicative of what I hate so much about (particularly American) politics. Michelle, Sasha, and Malia are family members of a public official. They aren’t celebrities or royalty.
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It is bad enough that we allow a President’s family to be interjected into politics. But I’m not going to single out the Obamas for that. That is an unfortunate American political tradition. But if Michelle, et al. are going to travel with Barack, on the public’s dime, can’t they either (a) stay out of the spotlight or (b) conduct themselves in a professional manner that maintains the dignity of an official visit?
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Isn’t there anything else to do in Paris on a Sunday than go shopping? Doesn’t Paris have any museums or historical locations to visit? Was Michelle running low on clean clothes or something? We’ve got the Prime Minister of France on the phone directing Parisian shops (apparently in violation of French law) to open especially for Obama’s family?

This is news………..why?

I’ve been to Paris square1. This is plenty to do there on a Sunday outside of shopping. Heck I found it enjoyable just wandering around the streets.

Should have been “there” instead of this. I can’t spell worth a d@mn today!

Just one comment and I am out.
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Yeah shame on Michelle Obama for wanting to take her kids shopping in Paris of all places. Do we even know what she was shopping for? Hell no. Could it have been just for some souveniers? Probably considering Sarkozy is talking about stores in “touristy” areas staying open, not in the fashion district. Yet now there will be no shortage of right wing outrage over Michelle Obama for the crime of….being a parent. Nothing in JNS’s post suggests that Michelle asked for Sarkozy to open the stores. In fact a fair reading suggests that Sarkozy did so on his own because he was embarrassed. And bigger than that its seems obvious that Sarkozy is simply using the Obamas’ popularity to try to push through some legislation he likes. I doubt Michelle and the kids will be travelling to France enough to justify changing the law just for her.
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But wait and see, by mid day the right wing blogs will insinuate that our first lady “demanded” that the stores be opened, that she spent “extravagantly” on herself and her kids during a recession, and I am sure words will be used in more than a few articles that shouldn’t be used to talk about our first lady ever. And none of it will be based on facts. Just on trying to defame the Obama family.
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Actually I don’t even blame JNS for this. But it doesn’t matter because its still gonna happen.

OT, but did anyone her about this on Glenn Beck:
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“Michael Scheuer, on Glenn Beck’s show last night:
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Scheuer: The only chance we have as a country right now is for Osama bin Laden to deploy and detonate a major weapon in the United States. Because it’s going to take a grass-roots, bottom-up pressure. Because these politicians prize their office, prize the praise of the media and the Europeans. It’s an absurd situation again. Only Osama can execute an attack which will force Americans to demand that their government protect them effectively, consistently, and with as much violence as necessary.
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Beck: Which is why, I was thinking this weekend, if I were him, that would be the last thing I would do right now.”
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It’s hard to be shocked by what’s on Fox anymore but that shocked me.

Isn’t there anything else to do in Paris on a Sunday than go shopping? Doesn’t Paris have any museums or historical locations to visit?
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square1,
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My main thought to Michelle Obama is to be very aware that, now that you are the First Lady, your words have more power than you may think or intend. A simple statement of “I’d like to go shopping” may be translated into “I’m going shopping and I expect the stores to be open” whether that was your intent or not. They do not want to insult you so the phone calls are made.
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Be very aware of the country you are visiting and their legalities and customs (e.g. Sunday closings). Your staff and your host MAY go overboard to accommodate you – and the result may not be to your (or our) liking.
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As for the statement that “the maintenance of the Sunday work ban has little to do with France’s Catholicism” – how do YOU make that determination? Are you native French and intimately familiar with the history of that particular statute?
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You might be correct if saying that this country’s “Blue Laws” are not related to Catholicism here but to make that judgement about another country – that’s a stretch.

I be thinkin’ this story be flung out thar’ t’ “balance” th’ latest revelations regardin’ Palin…it be important t’ be weighin’ th’ seriousness o’ wantin’ t’ do a bit o’ shoppin’ whilst in Paris wi’ th’ nearly pathological delusions o’ th’ woman who were thinkin’ she should be President!
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Al’ays got t’ tilt th’ playin’ field in favor o’ th’ wingnuts…they can’t be competin’ on th’ level!
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Arrgh!

Sorry, square1. The last half of my posting was NOT directed toward you but another.

But wait and see, by mid day the right wing blogs will insinuate that our first lady “demanded” that the stores be opened, that she spent “extravagantly” on herself and her kids during a recession, and I am sure words will be used in more than a few articles that shouldn’t be used to talk about our first lady ever.
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Funny, you can predict it, I can predict, but the WH seems oblivious to the possiblity of Marie Antoinette comparisons.
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Afguy nails it. This isn’t a holiday. This is an official visit. If you say you want something, it will be made to happen. Think about what you say you want.
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Yet now there will be no shortage of right wing outrage over Michelle Obama for the crime of….being a parent
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Spare me. Being the First Lady is not like being any other parent. If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

And if in these tough times you break out laughing while SWAMPing in a public place and your colleagues look at you as if you have finally gone barmy, blame JNS.
[And don't pass the buck, JNS!]

Being the First Lady is not like being any other parent.
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On official visits, she’s the First Lady first and foremost. To the kids, she’s always Mom. She just needs to remember for ALL of them that there are times she can’t be just Mom to them and to remind them at those times.

ohiolib: ” .. This is news………..why? ..”
Cause you didn’t know it before, and you read it avidly.
Isn’t it news when a law is introduced and we are, for a change, the agents that bring good things – the American value of consummate consumerism – to those French?

RW Outrage: We boycotted products from France, and now Michelle Obama is demanding to buy them!

And god rested on Sunday – or rather, the seventh day.

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Weird heathens, these Amy Sullivan’s people:

? ?? does god know or know how to count? What for????

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?? Anyway, was god’s seventh day the same as our seventh day?? The whole day? [ When it is still the seventh day in USA, it may be first day in China ???]

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?? Were there days and nights those days? I mean if god on earth is all over, part of him is night and the other part is day. So who is doing the observer??

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??If I were god, why would I need to rest?? Would I be having the Popeye-type abs that need rest after a workout??

It is enough to make Olive Oyl, the PW, go ArghhhHH(cough!)

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?? Anyway, was god’s seventh day then the same as our seventh day?? The whole day? [When it is the seventh day in France or China, it may be still the sixth day in USA ???]

So, shop on, Michelle!

Is there any topic that can’t provide “outrage” and “concern”?
This one may be my new litmus test.

?? Anyway, was god’s seventh day the same as our seventh day?? The whole day? [ When it is still the seventh day in USA, it may be first day in China ???]
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I have to admit that made me laugh.

@square 1: I agree. If the French government wants to change the law so that business are open on Sunday then change it. Do not make an exception for the First Lady and then try to get the law changed. Not to mention it is a general rule to know the customs and daily going ons before traveling to another country.
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@rose83: two things: If I were Beck, I would have corrected that gentleman and put him in his place. That comment was out of line. I understand the point he was attempting to make but what he said took it to a different place along the lines of Biden’s comment. Was Beck saying “If I was him” meaning Osama? If so then Beck’s response was all right in the sense, he did not entertain the comment further.
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One should be aware of words said and actions done. Just like flying to South America to see your mistress unbeknownst to anyone and thinking no one would know.
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Some of the celebrity status attributed to the Presidency is due to the rare moments of an individuals shadow overtaking the Presidency…JFK, FDR, TR, Lincoln etc…

However, I would not jump on the fact the First Lady made a faux pas. Just because she was ignorant of the law concerning shops on Sundays, it does not deserve personality shots. If it is shown that, she demanded to have the shops open, which I do not think she did, and then there is an issue.

lostepic: ,i>” .. .. If .. she demanded .. then there is an issue.”

Come off your high horse: We, especially the pious Americans and the godly British, do a lot of demanding in third world countries.
[Consider the current thrust to institutionalize English and 'American-ism/European-ism/Caucasian-ism' (in schools) in Iraq and Afghanistan. [Yeah, you have your duplicitous imperial rationalization ready and honed through the ages.]

[Do I imply that France is a third world country?]

Sarkozy: It’s been a great pleasure having you and your daughters in Paris.
Michelle: Thank you. I’ve always loved Paris, it’s a beautiful city.
Sarkozy: My Chief of Staff would like to finalize your itinerary for today. Any particular place you would like to visit?
Michelle: Actually, we would like to go shopping today, you know … buy souvenirs for the white house. Could you recommend any stores?
Sarkozy: errrr … [cough, cough] I’ll have to make some calls …

Sarkozy says:
“Is it normal that when Mrs. Obama wants to visit French stores with her daughters on a Sunday, I have to make a call to have them opened? Everyone in President Obama’s entourage was present, great. Who then had to explain to them why we are the only country where, even in Paris, everything is closed on Sunday?”
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Sarkozy did not have to do anything in this regard. By saying as much, he is implying that Mrs. Obama did in fact make some sort of request, or at least likely made an issue out of shop closings. On the other hand, even if she was entirely innocent in this regard, she should have refused any Sarkozy offer to have shops opened on her behalf. What warrants this special treatment? When you travel abroad, you adapt to the customs of the host country. In Italy, for example, contrary to what Sarkozy believes, many, many shops, stores, cafes, restaurants etc are in fact closed up on Sundays. And on Mondays, museums are generally closed. This is custom. This is tradition. This is entirely normal for these cultures. For Michelle Obama to either request or accept special treatment is entirely pretentious and warrants any criticism she may receive as a result.

[...] at the heart of the recent economic bubble and meltdown.Shops closed? How 19th century.First, the blurb on French shops posted by Jay Newton-Small on Time Magazine’s political blog Swampland.Michelle Obama has [...]

@sqaure1

You really make me chuckle.

Sarkozy did not have to do anything in this regard. By saying as much, he is implying that Mrs. Obama did in fact make some sort of request, or at least likely made an issue out of shop closings. On the other hand, even if she was entirely innocent in this regard, she should have refused any Sarkozy offer to have shops opened on her behalf.
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Sorry, Exile,
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There are enough loaded qualifiers in the above to indicate that, without knowledge of what was actually said, you’ve made up your mind that she probably said something wrong and, even if she didn’t say anything or do anything further, she was guilty of the sin of being presumptious.
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Not one of your best efforts.

cfukara
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See “How Diplomacy Works”…

afguy
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You are absolutely correct. I have made up my mind that regardless of what was said, Michelle Obama should have refused any special treatment. Pretentious? Yes. Sinful? No.

Then again, there is the possibility that Michelle Obama was actually punked by a Canadian radio host pretending to be Sarkozy.

Neo has “feelings” that is enough for today’s republicans.

This is a non-issue as far as Michelle is concerned, and I think that any sane person would agree. I think the point of JNS’ post was that this was an interesting vignette about France.

PNNTO
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What are you talking about?
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In case you had forgotten, the party not holding executive office is the ‘opposition.’ Its duty is to criticize, antagonize, and keep the executive on its heals, which includes reigning in his PR blunder, err wife.

Congrats Neo, you are the kind of “opposition” I can get behind.
I saw it all during the 90s.

Jay Newton-Small: “There is a ban in France, a Catholic country, ….”

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France is “a Catholic country”? ROTFLMAO!!! According to a 2006 Harris poll only 27% (27%!) of the French recognize the existence of God, and most of those are Muslim. 32% of the French call themselves atheists and 32% call themselves agnostics. “Catholic” indeed. France is as “Catholic” as Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy, to wit: Not at all. Time magazine, try: France is an atheist country whose religion is fundamentalist leftist environmentalism or some such cult.

As we all saw it the last 8 years. Deserved and undeserved.

“If You Have to Work Sundays, It’s Michelle Obama’s Fault,”
Talk about les miserable napoleons.
Look at the next blog entry by MS regarding our job picture in USA – and these French would blame someone who brings them a little extra income in a week. I bet the resentful workers cry and mourn all the way to the bank to deposit the extra paycheck from the hated Sunday tourism.
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Either they have escaped the recession and joblessness that is biting the world or they would rather starve.
[And the latter possibility may be the case here. Indeed, remember that these french would rather riot, behead their emperor(Sakorzy) and starve to death than have/embrace available cake(Sunday's tourism francs).]

I thought this was not part of the official visit and that Obama came home and Michelle and her mother and the girls stayed on for several days on vacation.

textee,
Having grown up much of my life in France, it’s a pretty Catholic country. Those who say they’re atheist are still culturally Catholic. For example, poll show a majority of French don’t support the wearing of the tchador in French public schools but think wearing crosses on necklaces is okay (I did my undergraduate thesis on the 1994 Affaire du Foulard). Many of France’s tradtions are rooted in its Catholicism and to this day even Huguenots and Jews are still viewed with suspicion by some of the older French (those who make up Le Pen’s main constituency). France has never been much of a fan of Rome — King Francis I literally beat the crap out of one Pope — but in its traditions it has its own cultural Catholicism that is undeniable.
JNS

JNS
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Many of France’s traditions are rooted in its Catholicism and to this day even Huguenots and Jews are still viewed with suspicion by some of the older French (those who make up Le Pen’s main constituency).
What kind of ridiculous implication is this?

That is some fine info JNS. Excellent context.
(Although I hope your use of “literally” is for the beating not the “crap out of”)

Exiled_At_Home: Um, all of those who actively “appeased” the Germans in WW2, being a large chunk of the French above a certain age.

literally beat the crap out of one Pope
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I think that ‘actually’ might have worked better in that context.
The beating might have been literal but we all hope the crap was figurative.

JNS
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Convenient deflection. So your assertion is that in supporting your claim that France is culturally Catholic, your mentioning of suspicion of Jews and Huguenots was not to imply a Catholic heritage, but the existence of an elderly population? This is beyond absurd.
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Your intent was clear: the existence of Judeophobic fringes within France illustrates a Catholic culture. Which it to say that you support the ludicrous claim that the Catholic Church preaches against the Jews and/or appeased the Nazis. You clearly do not agree with your TIME colleague, David Van Biema, who states that in reference to Nazi appeasement, “institutional Catholicism acquitted itself better than Protestantism.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1539093/France-no-longer-a-Catholic-country.html
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Exiled, you really should stop trying to make every dispute personal. JNS is right to say that France is culturally Catholic, and one can even argue that its Catholicism is moving towards more conservative Catholicism, even as actual church attendance falls. When 51% of a country identifies as Catholic,even if non-observant, that is pretty much a textbook case of Catholic culture. The point about suspicion of Huguenots and Jews is not that it is the province of the elderly, but that a) it is one aspect of traditional Catholicism in France, with a long pedigree b) the elderly are more likely to be Catholics. And it is not a ludicrous claim that some Catholics, in some cases of high rank in the Church,were anti-Semitic or appeasers of Hitler. Since it was you who introduced this point, not JNS, you seem rather more guilty of rhetorical deflections than most. Since you will no doubt issue a blanket denial, you might like to view the following, for just one example of how tainted the Vatican’s record on this issue is:
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http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/the_vatican.htm

JR
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I never contended that JNS was incorrect in her view that France is culturally Catholic. To the contrary, I agree. I take issue with her assumption that the existence of a Judeophobic element within France is evidence of this Catholic heritage. This assumption is an indictment of Catholicism and patently unfounded.
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During WWII any attempt within Europe to oppose Nazism was to be an undertaking executed with extreme care. To oppose Hitler, while maintaining self-preservation, required careful back-channeling. Contrary to a great deal of dated literature on the subject, the Church under Pope Pious XII strongly condemned Nazism and Fascism and did more than any other institution to protect the Jews of Italy. This is now an undisputed claim among mainstream academics. Pope Pious issued special encyclicals condemning both of these authoritarian movement, against Fascism in 1931 and Nazism in 1937. The vindication of the Church in this regard is well documented, notably in “Hitler, the War and the Pope” and “Righteous Gentiles” by University of Mississippi Law Professor Ronald Rychlak.
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As for Yugloslavia, I implore you to read “The Three Myths” by Stella Alexander in which the claim you linked to is thoroughly refuted. Alexander is by no means pro-Catholic nor pro-Stepinac, however the book delves into both Archbishop Stepinac’s motives for courting fascism and Croatian nationalism, largely out of opposition to communism, and his later opposition to the violence of the Ustashe. Additionally, you should read “The Catholic Church and Ustasha Nationalism in Croatia During the Second World War” by Irina Ognyanova-Krivoshieva in which she explains the Church’s role in condemning the Ustashe. Ognyanova-Krivoshieva writes “It was the institution that raised its voice against the policy of mass liquidation of the Jews in the ISC and openly condemned racism and racial discrimination.

Exiled, you really are waffling here, aren’t you? The fact of Catholic anti-Semitism (and persecution of the Huguenots, which you prudently ducked) is well-established. Christ-killers? Purity of blood? Ring any bells? Blanket denial is untrue to the facts, and says something about your willingness to face history.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/sep2000/pope-s19.shtml

Equally, John Paul II publicly apologized for persecution of Jews by the Catholic church. This hardly suggests that the Catholic church denies its own anti-Semitism, and I cannot see why you should do so for it.

As for your attempts to whitewash what happened in WWII, there have been numerous books and articles which established that the Catholic Church was complicit in shielding Nazis after WWII (as was the US) and willing to use them as a shield against Communism. This may not be very palatable to you, but again, you don’t get to pick the facts of history.

The book you mean to refer to, by the way, is The Triple Myth, not Three Myths. An important point that you gloss over:

“When the fascist Ustashe regime entered Zagreb in 1941 and declared an independent Croatia allied with Nazi Germany, Stepinac rejoiced both for Croatia’s independence and for the regime’s militant anti-communism, as well as the fact that they, like him, viewed the church as an integral element of Croatian identity.

The Ustashe quickly began to brutalize Serbs and Jews, organizing death camps and mass deportations to ethnically-cleanse Croatia. Some Catholic clerics participated in these atrocities, though Stepinac’s role was more ambiguous. During the first year, he not only failed to object to the atrocities but suggested ways to make them more efficient. In a July 1941 letter to the government he wrote: “The measures undertaken would have their full effect if they were carried out in a more humane and considerate way”.”

This hardly vindicates Stepinac. The most you can say is that he was a fellow-traveller, with a blinkered and limited world-view, as well as the generic rabid anti-Communism of his class. That does not justify his welcome of the fascists in any way.

As for the article you suggest, I would be more impressed if you were not just quoting the summary which is publicly available, verbatim. Have you in fact read it? Furthermore, the summary makes clear that there was considerable collaboration with fascism by the Catholic church, and that the church seems to have changed its views only when the Ustashe tried to subordinate it to their own control. Finally, as the article (as well as the source I linked to) makes clear, there were plenty of lower-ranking Catholics who were prepared to carry out ethnic cleansing or to murder Orthodox Christians.

JR
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I am not denying that the Church could have done more in opposing Nazi rule. I am not denying that there were individuals within the Church who harbored resentment against Jews. However, you have to view this in the context of the realities of WWII era Europe, and not through the prism of a 21st century mindset. The context was this: Europe, as a society, held obtuse, prejudiced views against Jews. Naturally, in this setting, you will find individuals within the Church who, while not condoning Nazi atrocities, were unwilling to risk their own safety in speaking out on behalf of Jews. This was true of all groups, peoples, and institutions of Europe. So this is certainly not an indictment of the Church itself. You also have to recognize the great terror that Nazi expansionism inflicted upon European society. People were utterly terrified to oppose Hitler for fear of extreme reprisal. In spite of this, the Church did in fact make great efforts to undermine Nazi authority and protect Jewish populations, often at great risk and with deadly consequences for many clergy and admitted Catholics.
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According to Jean Bernard, an inmate at Dachau and later Bishop of Luxembourg: “The detained priests trembled every time news reached us of some protest by a religious authority, but particularly by the Vatican. We all had the impression that our warders made us atone heavily for the fury these protests evoked … whenever the way we were treated became more brutal, the Protestant pastors among the prisoners used to vent their indignation on the Catholic priests: ‘Again your big naive Pope and those simpletons, your bishops, are shooting their mouths off .. why don’t they get the idea once and for all, and shut up. They play the heroes and we have to pay the bill.’” Simply put, the Vatican’s rhetoric against Nazism resulted in the deaths and torture of many Christians.
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In addition to mere rhetoric, the extensive campaigns to save the lives of Jews is undeniable. In France, for example, Archbishop Gerlier of Lyons and Bishop Thias of Mantauban were responsible for sheltering and saving 200,000. And Pope Pius XII oversaw a network in which nearly 900,000 Jewish lives were saved. The Church, more than all international agencies combined, risked itself to save others.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2157575/posts
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/piusdef.html
http://home.olemiss.edu/~rrychlak/
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15298
http://www.zenit.org/article-15175?l=english
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2157575/posts

Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up until then, I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty
~Albert Einstein

“Anti-Semitism is inadmissible; spiritually we are all Semites.”
~Pope Pius XI
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[Nazis] are in reality only miserable plagiarists who dress up old errors with new tinsel. It does not matter whether they flock to the banners of social revolution, whether they are guided by a false concept of the world and of life, or whether they are possessed by the superstition of a race and blood cult.
~Pope Pius XII, then Cardinal Pacelli, on April 28, 1935
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“The election of Cardinal Pacelli is not accepted with favor in Germany because he was always opposed to Nazism and practically determined the policies of the Vatican under his predecessor.”
~Berlin Morgenpost, March 3, 1939
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“The voice of Pius XII in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas . . . . He’s about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all.”
~New York Times, Dec. 15, 1941
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“The people of Israel will never forget what his Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion which form the very foundations of true civilization, are doing for us unfortunate brothers and sisters in this most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of divine Providence in this world”
~Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem, Isaac Herzog, February 28,1944
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“It is not easy for us to find the right words to express the warmth and consolation we experienced because of the concern of the supreme pontiff, who offered a large sum to relieve the sufferings of deported Jews. . . . The Jews of Romania will never forget these facts of historic importance”
~Rabbi Safran of Bucharest, Romania, April 7, 1944
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“We share the grief of the world over the death of His Holiness Pius XII. . . . During the ten years of Nazi terror, when our people passed through the horrors of martyrdom, the Pope raised his voice to condemn the persecutors and to commiserate with their victims”
~Golda Meir, Israeli representative to the U.N. and future prime minister of Israel
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So, I ask you JR, if Pope Pius XII was so allied with Nazism and Hitler, why then does his own rhetoric at the time contradict that? Why were Hitler and the Third Reich so harsh in their condemnation of him? Why were leading Jewish figures, including prominent Rabbis, Albert Einstein and Israels PMs Golda Meir and Moshe Sharett so vocal in their support, admiration, and appreciation of the great deeds of Pope Pius XII? Why is it that at the time hardly a voice could be found who rejected the idea that Pius and the Church ardently combated Nazism, yet 20 to 30 years later, historical revisionists seem to have all the answers? I’ll put my faith in those who endured WWII, witnessed it firsthand and have come down decisively on the side of the Church, rather than those who would fabricate falsehoods decades later to further their agenda. Your claims, and the books and articles you speak of, have been thoroughly debunked and you are simply perpetuating lies and mistruths, either through deliberate propagandizing, or by way of weak intellect and lethargic pursuit of the truth.

As usual, exiled, you twist and distort in order to evade the historical truth. You began this by trying to attack JNS over the issue of France as a culturally Catholic country. You proceeded to try and whitewash the Catholic Church’s record of anti-Semitism and anti-Huguenot measures.

As you yourself conceded, you were wrong in all these claims.

We then moved on, thanks to you, to an attempt to proclaim Catholics innocent of all complicity with Nazism, and you chose to try and defend a specific historical figure, on the basis of a book whose title you got wrong, and an article you had not read.

Again, it is abundantly clear that you have no interest in facing facts. It does you no good to play the old game of exaggerating what I said, and then presenting specific, irrelevant quotes to try and whitewash the fact that many Catholics were fellow-travelers with the Nazis. The facts are regrettable, but they cannot be conjured away by your hysterical rhetoric, your disregard for truth, and your desperate desire to believe a convenient fiction. What next? Will you tell us that the Catholic Church is without pedophiles? That successive Popes have not tried desperately to ignore that terrible reality also? It is a matter of regret to all Christians that the Catholic Church has so stained itself through a failure of self-awareness and a failure of resolve for justice. But we cannot change the facts.

[...] "Chetan suggests that interest rates in the region are going to stay low for a while, adding that policy makers should be able to prick any burgeoning bubble with tightened lending standards or other non-monetary policies. Still, the prospect of a new bubble inflating on the other side of the world is a reminder that easy money policies have a way of puffing up riskier asset classes. Yes, we’re looking at you crude oil."Michelle, Ma Belle des Magasins – Swampland – TIME.com [...]

JR
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I really have no further desire to debate this issue with you. You clearly have an axe to grind with regard to the Catholic Church and it is quite evident in your refusal to accept the views those who endured WWII (including Church officials, Nazis and prominent Jews) and have vindicated the role of the Church, opting instead for ‘scholarly’ works fabricated some decades after the second world war. You are employing tired tactics. Your bias is quite transparent. However, I am obligated to respond to some of your more erroneous claims.
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I never attacked JNS’s claim that France is culturally Catholic, I agree with her assertion to that extent. I disagree that the existence of a Judeophobic fringe is evidence of this Catholic heritage.
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My intent here is not to vindicate all Catholics. Certainly on an individual level there were many appeasers of Nazism, both out of fear and out of apathy towards Jews. The Church, as an institution however, fought tirelessly to protect Jews and combat Nazism. It did this more than any other organization and yet is held to a higher standard than any other European entity in claims of culpability.
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As for Stella Alexander’s “The Triple Myth,” it has been some time since I have read this. I am so utterly apologetic for mistakenly referring to it as “The Three Myths.” Your attempt to distort this minor error into an indictment of my entire argument is proof of your desperation.
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You conveniently ignored the books “Righteous Gentiles” and “Hitler, the War and the Pope” which document the great lengths the Vatican went to protect the Jewish populace in great endangerment to itself. You ignore that Hitler and the Third Reich continually lamented the Church’s opposition to their movement, Hitler referring to Pope Pius XII as the only leader to entirely oppose him. You ignore the fact that Jewish leaders from across the globe praised Pope Pius XII for decades for his relentless pursuit of justice. You ignore that German newspapers continually resented the election of Cardinal Pacelli as an enemy of Nazism. You ignore that the New York Times proclaimed Pope Pius as the only leader in Europe willing to stand against Nazism. You ignore all of this. You ignore all of the documentation. Yet, you elevate the works of those in the 60s and later as unshakable truths. You clearly prefer historical revisionism to to historical accuracy, and yet you claim I reject historical truths. Your blatant agenda is lucid as water.
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Good day to you, sir.

square1 post 6 asked ” [...] Isn’t there anything else to do in Paris on a Sunday than go shopping?”

That’s like saying , If I visit France for seven days , you’d frown on me if for one day, I had french fries INCLUDED in my lunch , but oh, you think I’ve always had that at Burger King , Micky Dees etc in my western country so that therefore means I have no interest in French Cuisine ?! Don’t be control Freaks people! Different Strokes for Different Folks!

If Mrs Obama or myself or anybody else want to go to a posh retailer on Sunday and then go visit museums (or not) , that’s her prerogative, my prerogative and the prerogative of whosoever is spending their money on vacation or on official visits to France or wherever.

Whatever happened to the principle of live and let live ?
If I visit ,say, Italy and want to buy a pair of handmade shoes from shoemaker Linguine who does not mind working on a Sunday, AND THEN go and visit cultural relics etc, why should I have to worry about the “culture” of anti-sunday Shopping Folk , who don’t worry about the culture of people who don’t shop on Saturdays ?

I’m glad this legislation was passed in lower house and in the Senate and I hope it ultimately evades repeal from the Supreme Court. And speaking of the Supreme Court ( too busy to quote the official appellation) the situation with Sunday Shopping in France should be juxtaposed with the recent June liberation of the same in Croatia by their Supreme Court where both the differences AND similarities WILL STILL argue for PRO OPTIONAL SUNDAY SHOPPING. It can be done!

But I’m not done with France. The fact is Mr. Sarkozy has been fighting for amendments to this 1906 law from his election campaign and the debate has been going on for at least 2 years: Therefore , how can people suggest that Mr. Sarkozy is trying to force France into Sunday shopping BECAUSE of Michelle Obama ?

Mark you , I do think Mr. Sarkozy would have been better off if he more directly tied the Michelle Obama accommodation with the 80-million-tourist-a year-market arguments he’s always supported, the only difference is with the Obamas he’s dealing with a privilege he’s entitled to make, thats his prerogative to make as president because there are such things as exceptions to the rule.

Long live the freedom to allow liberalization of optional Sunday buying, Sunday Selling.

Sorry , I have to rush out of the office , but I have parallels to make ,…going beyond the accommodations that Will Durant mentioned in his book The Age of Faith re the market day being changed to Sunday in LYONS to facilitate the Jews. Meanwhile let me invite you to share your thoughts inside my facebook group ” Pro Optional Sunday Trading Taskforce (POSTT) [ http://groups.to/Liberty .

” The great strength of the totalitarian state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it.”
Adolf Hitler

Hypocrites appreciate the benefits of “Langer Samstang” (long Saturday) but when the same comes to balance the equation for Sunday you are as rigid as a Berlin Wall, but you will fall .

Ha,! you must think God is going to send seven last plauges because he wants to play mickey mouse games!
Not Catholic . Not Jewish.