Is Obama Edging Towards Bush-Like Indefinite Detention?

A collaborative reporting team of the Washington Post and Pro-Publica is reporting this afternoon that the Obama Administration is getting closer to issuing an Executive Order that would “would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate suspected terrorists indefinitely.”

There seems to be some confusion, however, about just how far along in the process the White House is. On the Washington Post website right now, the story leads this way:

The Obama administration, fearing a battle with Congress that could stall plans to close Guantanamo, has drafted an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate terrorism suspects indefinitely, according to three senior government officials with knowledge of White House deliberations.

On the Pro-Publica site right now, the same story by the same two reporters leads this way:

The Obama administration, fearing a battle with Congress that could stall plans to close Guantanamo, has considered an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate suspected terrorists indefinitely, according to three senior government officials with knowledge of White House deliberations.

I have bolded the difference in language, and it is a big one. A White House official tells me that there is no “draft executive order” and that the task force charged with investigating this issue has not completed its work. (A report to the president is due next month.) Not sure what is going on. But the return to the executive powers of indefinite detention, depending on how it is done, could become yet another sore spot for civil libertarians who have been disappointed by the Obama administration’s decisions on issues as varied as state secrets, the refusal to release images of detainee abuse, and the detention of prisoners at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan.

It’s possible that an early version of the Post-Pro-Publica language was written inexactly, suggesting a direction that has not yet been set in stone. The article(s) also suggest(s) that the executive order may only be a temporary step, as the White House works with Congress to come up with a solution to the problem of detainees who have yet to be subjected to any regular judicial process. “Civil liberties groups have encouraged the administration, that if a prolonged detention system were to be sought, to do it through executive order,” explains one administration official, who is quoted in the story(ies).

UPDATE: I just refreshed the Washington Post version of the story, at about 7:06 p.m., and it has been changed to read: “The Obama administration, fearing a battle with Congress that could stall plans to close the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, is drafting an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate terrorism suspects indefinitely, according to three senior government officials with knowledge of White House deliberations.”

UPDATE II: The Pro-Publica version, at 7:12,  now matches the Post’s “is drafting” language, though the URL still says “white-house-drafts.” Follow the bouncing ball, I guess, and be happy that the printing presses have not yet rolled out the copy.

UPDATE III: On Saturday morning, the lead of the Post story has yet another formulation: “officials . . . are crafting language.” It seems clear that something is in the works, though it is not as far along as previously feared. Meanwhile, Spencer Ackerman at the Washington Independent points out that the devil for civil liberties advocates may be in the details, despite the fact that several groups have already issued blanket rejections of the executive order idea. Meanwhile, a staffer in Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s office emails over a statement, asserting McConnell’s demands that Congress not be sidelined in this process, which according to the Post-Pro-Publica story is the whole idea behind the executive order. The McConnell statement after the jump.

Even with an executive order, they [the Obama Administration] still need the funding to be released before they can incarcerate any detainees in the United States. None of the appropriations bills for fiscal year 2010 that are working their way through committee fund the closure as requested by the President. And I expect that the DoD approps bill will present a debate over continuing to bar detainees from being incarcerated in the U.S. As Sen. McConnell said recently, “The defense budget request for fiscal year 2010 includes a similar funding request, so the Senate will consider this matter again in the near future.” And: “An overwhelming bipartisan majority of the Congress disagreed with the administration’s request for $80 million from Congress for the purpose of closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay before the administration even has a place to put the detainees who are housed there, any plan for military commissions, or any articulated plan for indefinite detention.

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  • stuartzechman

    Michael Scherer:
    .
    Please get this right, and have a care for total accuracy here, as what this suggests will doubtlessly enrage many, many people.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    If only we knew the names of the people giving this information. I swear that story is a who’s who of anonymous sources. Got damn I hate the way the game is played these days. Even if I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt they damn near make it impossible.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “One administration official suggested the White House was already trying to build support for an executive order.

    “Civil liberties groups have encouraged the administration, that if a prolonged detention system were to be sought, to do it through executive order,” the official said. Such an order can be rescinded and would not block later efforts to write legislation, but civil liberties groups generally oppose long-term detention, arguing that detainees should either be prosecuted or released.”
    .
    “One administration official suggested”? Beyond that, the rationale is a stretch which isn’t to say untrue.

  • Friar Tuck

    Anonymous officials = yelling fire in a crowded theater.
    .
    Because SZ is absolutely right about the outrage.
    .
    Give us NAMES!

  • Friar Tuck

    Just to be clear -
    .
    “White House spokesman Ben LaBolt did not directly respond to questions about an executive order”
    .
    . . . and therefore does not count.

  • James, Los Angeles

    Nice catch, Scherer! I’d wager that the WaPo politics editor changed the wording when he saw saw a chance to stick it to the liberals, make his republican overlords happy, and generate a bunch of page views all at the same time.
    .
    ProPublica, keeping the rightwingers at WaPo honest!

  • jcapan

    OK, we can all agree this is very important, the MSM should be paying attn. to this issue and holding Obama’s accountable for what looks like Cheneyism at its worst. So, the fact that MS or WaPo is talking about this is great. That said, given that MS dished up the following this week:
    ~
    1. “The President’s Feisty Press Conference”
    2. “Jenny Sanford Speaks (And More)”
    3. “RIP” MJ
    4. And “Obama vs. Bubba”
    ~
    … perhaps I’ll stick to Greenwald’s work (i.e. journalism undistracted by ass-lint) when I want to be informed about the pressing issues of the day.

  • jcapan

    Shorter me: If you don’t beat your spouse 7 days a week (only 6) don’t expect her to be all happy when you’re sober & sweet on Sunday.

  • James, Los Angeles

    holding Obama’s accountable for what looks like Cheneyism at its worst

    .
    A bit overstated, eh jc?

  • jcapan

    I don’t know J in LA, perhaps if you don’t agree with GG, Froom, christ, even Bob “Fanboy” Herbert. At its worst on all counts, no, but on far too many to make me feel at all comfortable with this president’s commitment to civil liberties.

  • James, Los Angeles

    This is significant and it didn’t make it into the lede:
    .

    Under one White House draft that was being discussed earlier this month, according to administration officials, detainees would be imprisoned at a military facility on U.S. soil, but their ongoing detention would be subject to annual presidential review. U.S. citizens would not be held in the system. (Last month, ProPublica explored the key issues around preventive detention [3].)
    .
    Such detainees — those at Guantanamo and those who may be captured in the future — would also have the right to legal representation during confinement and access to some of the information that is being used to keep them behind bars. Anyone detained under this order would have a right to challenge his detention before a judge.
    .
    Officials argue that the plan would give detainees more rights and allow them a better chance to one day end their indefinite incarceration than they have now at Guantanamo.

    .
    That casts a different light than the language in the lede, don’t you think?

  • James, Los Angeles

    jc, I’m just quarreling with your “Cheneyism *at its worst*” It’s not even close, though I am almost fully on board with the likes of GG (and “crist” too.

  • James, Los Angeles

    The other half [half of the remaining 229 detainees], the officials said, present the greatest difficulty because these detainees cannot be prosecuted in federal court or military commissions. In many cases the evidence against them is classified, has been provided by foreign intelligence services or has been tainted by the Bush administration’s use of harsh interrogation techniques.

    i.e., tortured.

  • James, Los Angeles

    Here is a more responsible reporting, by AFP, who actually check with sources themselves before writing the piece:

    But a White House official told AFP that no such draft order yet existed, though internal deliberations were taking place on how to deal with those inmates who could not be released or tried in civilian courts.
    .
    The source said that a task force established by the president was not due to present its recommendations until July, and that the administration would then work with Congress to find a solution to the conundrum.
    .
    If the White House cannot agree with lawmakers opposed to bringing what are allegedly the most dangerous terror suspects to US soil, an executive order issued by the president may be one option to establish a new detention system.

    And AFP is a LOT more trustworthy than Washington Post, the neoconservative’s own rag.
    Source: White House drafting indefinite detention order: report – Yahoo! News
    .
    How about it, Scherer. You’re a bigfoot WHPC now. Make some phone calls and find out what’s going on!

  • Mitch Guthman

    But Obama was a professor of Constitutional Law!

  • pintortwo

    Thank you MS.
    Glen Greenwald has been all-over Obama for persuing Bush-era policies that he promised to discontinue.
    .
    Also, I wonder what will happen on June 30th when our soldiers are supposed to leave Iraq- haven’t hear much about that. And I’m not comfortable with the 21,000 US soldiers going to Afghanistan.
    .

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    Pint
    ~
    Our soldiers won’t be leaving Iraq on June 30th. They’ll be pulling out of cities and towns and operating solely out of bases at that point. Then in 2010 we pull out. Not sure how effective we can hope to be, though, at this point simply running and gunning through the countryside and returning to base.

  • James, Los Angeles

    Now the piece reads

    Obama administration officials, fearing a battle with Congress that could stall plans to close the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, are crafting language for an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate terrorism suspects indefinitely, according to three senior government officials with knowledge of White House deliberations.

    under the headline White House Considers Executive Order on Indefinite Detention of Terror Suspects – washingtonpost.com
    .
    So they got the liberal blogosphere in an echo-chamber tizzy once again. Wonder if that was a trial balloon to see what would fly. The original wording is still all over the blogos — man these guys are playing the liberals like a three-dollar banjo. Looks like they’ve already talked to ACLU and others about it. Of course, they can (and do) already hold refugees and people seeking asylum indefinitely without trial. So there is precedent there. Part of the language, apparently, mandates legal representation and oversight by the courts with periodic review.
    .
    I’d like to know more of the story behind the ProPublica/WaPo story. Think you can make a couple of calls, Michael?

  • thincaboutit

    What’s next for Gitmo?
    Check out http://gitmotourism.blogspot.com

  • pintortwo

    “Obama Contemplates Executive Order for Detention Without Charges”
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/06/27/preventive_detention/index.html

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Glenn correctly identifies the whole thing as a trial balloon, with a cooperative WaPo doing its part.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Swampland at its best. A developing story, an astute catch, reporting in the form of a quote (from an anonymous source, alas, but whatcha gonna do), and a series of updates.
    -
    Nice work, Michael, thanks for the post. Please stay on this!

  • James, Los Angeles

    I don’t get why the whole shutting down thing gets scuttled for want of $80 million dollars. Pffft. Chump change in the defense budget. Dubya never had trouble getting $80 million dollars. He11′s bells, George W.’s boys LOST 8 BILLION dollars cash on a pallet in Iraq back in oh-3. And Obama can’t shut down a prison for want of $80 million? Just shut the thing down. They didn’t ask for that much to BUILD the thing.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    … upon further reflection, I see nothing wrong with using an anonymous source in this instance. Michael’s initiating contact with his source to check the reliability of another story. It’s fair enough for a source to give a quick, off-the-cuff, anonymous response to an “is there anything to this” question.
    -
    There’s a big difference between Michael’s action here, and, say, Elizabeth Bumiller or Judy Miller or Michael Gordon’s transcription of government claims to initiate a story, or Jeffrey Rosen’s use of anonymity to transmit gossip.

  • James, Los Angeles

    Nobody inside the administration is going to *ever* go on the record with anything but the administration line. They just aren’t, and you wouldn’t either if you were on the inside. This kind of story is *exactly* what anon sources are for, essential for reporting behind the scenes goings on like this. The trick is for the reporter to retain enough cred overall so that his readers can trust his judgment about what the anon source has to say. That’s where Time reporters and Washington Post reporters have trashed their own cred, by becoming addicted to Republican operatives as anon sources and printing up their lies and distortions wholesale without critical analysis.

  • formerlyjames

    There may be fear of battle with Congress, but I fear a loss of battle for the letter and spirit of the Constitution.
    .
    Those 200 or so that “can’t be released” represent a big message for how deluded the Constitution has become. I guess they win. I would let them go and score a win for the Constitution. They represent a drop in the ocean of terrorists who seek to demean what we are supposed to be about, but we are becoming them. Is that irony? Not sure.

  • jcapan
  • yutsano

    Those 200 or so that “can’t be released” represent a big message for how deluded the Constitution has become.
    -
    Maybe it’s just the cynic in me after eight years of Bush “trust me” shenanigans, but I want to know exactly WHY they cannot be released. Is it because we know they did something wrong/bad/criminal but because their handling is messed up we cannot prosecute them even under the military commissions set up? Don’t we bite the bullet and set free criminals in this country all the time because the prosecution messes up somewhere? I say bite the bullet and send them back to their countries of origin but NOT where they were captured. If there are consequences because of that action, it will be just one more stupid burden we’ll have to shoulder from the Bush legacy. But enough with the pearl clutching and pantswetting please.

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    formerlyjames: The Constitution has become “diluted.” But I wonder if it’s we who have become deluded into thinking that Obama and our elected government would do the right thing. What’s so bad about those pictures that citizens must protected from them? Has our sense of justice evaporated that we now hold people indefinitely, without charge – the very thing the Fourth Amendment was supposed to protect? As it happens, my t-shirt, today, says, “A patriot must be ready to defend his country against his government. Edward Abbey” How much worse will things have to get before we do something?

  • James, Los Angeles

    @yutsano
    Is it because we know they did something wrong/bad/criminal but because their handling is messed up we cannot prosecute them even under the military commissions set up?
    .
    the ProPublica piece gave an example of one of those:

    Walid bin Attash, who is accused [4] of involvement in the bombing of the USS Cole in 2000 and who was held at a secret CIA prison, could be among those subject to long-term detention, according to one senior official.
    .
    Little information on bin Attash’s case has been made public, but officials who have reviewed his file said the Justice Department has concluded that none of the three witnesses against him can be brought to testify in court. One witness, who was jailed in Yemen, escaped several years ago. A second witness remains incarcerated, but the government of Yemen will not allow him to testify.
    .
    Administration officials believe that testimony from the only witness in U.S. custody, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, may be inadmissible because he was subjected to harsh interrogation while in CIA custody.

    .
    It’s not that I’m in favor of holding people like this in indefinite detention. But I don’t think that self-righteous breastbeating is all that helpful. It’s fine for the liberal blogosphere to get on their high horse and shout unidimensional bromides, since they aren’t charged with the responsibilities of government. In fact, I think it is helpful in a way, to counterbalance the “anything goes” attitudes of the radical right. But it isn’t politically feasible, and it probably isn’t wise either, to release people like this, if true. It led to very unfortunate results in the 1970′s, just on the political level. Releasing criminals on “technicalities” led to the wholesale reversal of the civil liberties gains of the Warren Court and to the whole “soft on crime” jacket that the Dems still carry to this day. Be careful what you call for.
    .
    Perhaps they will come up with a solution that will conform to the Constitution. I hope so.

  • jcapan

    J-LA, help me out, can you reconcile this: “though I am almost fully on board with the likes of GG,” in particular Pint’s link above, with your final paragraph at 8:34?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo)

    Nice Guy
    ~
    Earlier on the Hamas thread you were defending Israel’s heavy-handedness. Here you decry the indefinite detentions by the US government. Israel engages in this exact conduct, only worse. The Palestinians have surpassed the “How much worse will things have to get before we do something?” mentality and have opted to do something. Yet you claim they oppose peace. Who holds your allegiance? The US or Israel?

  • James, Los Angeles

    jc,
    You mean second to last? I hope I made clear, though maybe not forcefully enough, that I want a Constitutional solution to this problem. So does GG, and so do we all. I’m not an expert in Constitutional law like GG and Obama. I just don’t think it is helpful for the full liberal blogosphere to start beating our breasts and drawing lines in the sand on the basis of an oft-revised Washington Post article, that has, by the way been denied by the WH, as my AFP piece link says. We do that too often.
    .
    I think we hurt our own position when we start with the liberal echo chamber when we should be working towards a seat at the table. Cartoonish, unidimensional pronouncements and breast-beating that fails to incorporate reality is getting to be a tiresome feature of the liberal blogosphere. We have zero impact on the broader conversation because of it, in my view.
    .
    I have no problem with GG’s piece, I read it before it was linked. I’m grateful to have a voice like GG on our side. I’d like to see GG and others have a bigger platform and more influence on the broader conversation. But I think that the writing and presentation needs to mature a little more before that will occur.

  • jcapan

    J-LA: I appreciate the response and certainly agree that no one should be beating his/her breast in response to anything WaPo does, more than ever given DF’s departure. This pains me greatly as it’s my hometown/once-beloved paper.
    ~
    But IMO, it’s b/c progressives (in & out of the b-sphere), have not been forceful enough in criticizing Obama on these issues that he’s felt it’s acceptable to make such moves.
    ~
    Here’s GG from back in January:
    ~
    “Politicians, by definition, respond to political pressure. Those who decide that it’s best to keep quiet and simply trust in the goodness and just nature of their leader are certain to have their political goals ignored. It’s always better — far better — for a politician to know that he’s being scrutinized closely and will be praised and supported only when his actions warrant that, and will be criticized and opposed when they don’t.
    ~
    Right this moment, there are enormous pressures being exerted on Obama not to make significant changes in the areas of civil liberties, intelligence policy and foreign affairs. That pressure is being exerted by the intelligence community, by the permanent Pentagon structures, by status-quo-loving leaders of both political parties, by authority-worshipping Beltway “journalists” and pundits (such as the ones who wrote the wretched though illustrative “What Would Dick Do?” cover story for this week’s Newsweek).
    ~
    If those who want fundamental reform in these areas adopt the view that they will not criticize Barack Obama because to do so is to “help Republicans,” or because he deserves more time, or because criticisms are unnecessary because we can trust in him to do the right thing, or because criticizing him is to “tear him down” or “create a circular firing squad” or “be a Naderite purist” or any of those other empty platitudes, then they are ceding the field to the very powerful factions who are going to fight vehemently against any changes. Do you think that those who want the CIA to retain “robust” interrogation powers and who want the federal surveillance state maintained, or want a hard-line towards Iran and a continuation of our Middle East policies, or who want to maintain corporate-lobbyist-domination of Washington, are sitting back saying: “it’s not right to pressure Obama too much right now; give him some time”?
    ~
    It’s critical that Obama — and the rest of the political establishment — hear loud objections, not reverential silence, when he flirts with ideas like the ones he suggested on Sunday. This dynamic prevails with all political issues. Where political pressure comes only from one side, that is the side that wins — period.”

  • James, Los Angeles

    I couldn’t agree with you more, jc. I think you misunderstand what I’ve said if you think I am advocating reverent silence. No!
    .
    I think it is time that liberals get a seat at the table. And by that I mean both politically and in the media, and you really can’t have one without the other. We have been marginalized for far, far too long.
    .
    I problem I see is that there is no engagement or willingness to engage on the liberal side. And I’m not speaking specifically about GG either. The liberal blogosphere has become an echo chamber, and there has been very little engagement with people who may be considered allies but disagree on some aspects of the hardline that so many of us take, or in degrees. You see this a lot with media criticism. There are a number of good, hardworking journalists who would gladly engage and participate in debate about their profession, but are turned off by the simplistic venom that a lot of us spill. One can’t even begin to have a conversation unless one is willing to hear out the other side without cartoonish pronouncements about what lazy, corrupt hacks they *all* might be. It’s okay to be passionate, but one-dimensional stridency is counterproductive, and I would like to see us move past that. That’s what I mean by “maturing.”
    .
    That’s all I’m saying.

  • James, Los Angeles

    @jc,
    Take that case I posted at 8:34 above, Walid bin Attash. Now, put your presidential hat on for a few minutes, step outside the liberal echo chamber. What do you think would be the consequences of releasing this man outright, given our dysfunctional political system and the absolute hold that the Republicans have on the mainstream press? There would be a political and media firestorm the likes of which we have never seen. It would literally fracture the Democratic Party into pieces. And what if he joined up with others and committed another Cole type terrorist act?
    .
    I mean, if you yourself had the responsibility to decide whether to release this person, would you really be that reckless? I would hope not. It’s easy enough to make unequivocal pronouncements of right and wrong when you aren’t the Decider. And sure, you could take a f*ck you attitude and let the chips fall where they may. That’s what the bushies did, but then, they had the mainstream press on their side, remember. We don’t have that.
    .
    I think this exec order is being considered in order to kick the can down the road a bit. It may be that Yemen will come around, or other evidence may surface, or a road to solution may otherwise open up.
    .
    Be careful what you wish for. Jes’ saying.

  • jcapan

    Agreed, having progressives with a voice at the table would be ideal. As opposed to faux liberals (centrists) who look progressive b/c they’re on the same page as Krauthammer, Yoo or Krisol.
    ~
    Likewise agree that there are sections of the nebulous blogosphere that are cartoonish at best (Huff Po immediately springs to mind). By and large, the voices there add little to the debate–it often amts. to Fox News for liberals. Their objective is pandering, not challenging.
    ~
    As for marginalization, however, I see it in a different light; the MSM, as it always has, continues to cling to its remaining power, its role as gatekeepers. Civil or otherwise, someone like GG is an outlier. Occasional charitable acknwowledgements of his work by JK notw/standing, he’s still to most of his colleagues that “liberal legal scold” (MS). True progressive voices are not excluded from MSM discourse b/c they’re shrill but b/c they’re peddling uncomfortable versions of reality that the estab-guardians find terrifying.
    ~
    Again, KT is a vivid ex. of a good, hardworking straight journalist who seems on the right side of most issues, but I maintain that, if she were “true left,” and submitted work Stengel & co. eschew, she’d be Froomkin-ed. The type of bridgebuilding you envision is, IMO, unrealistic b/c KT is not empowered enough to build such briges–the people (Stengel, the Post suits who just canned Froom) who are have no intention of doing so. The corp. media may coopt a few of the more palatable voices from the blogosphere (e.g. Ezra), but the range of views, the sphere of debate will expand marginally, if at all. Ultimately, it’s really moot in the long view, as MSM print media is done. The future is looking beautifully disparate to me.

  • James, Los Angeles

    Well, I think it’s a mistake to paint with such a broad brush. The “MSM” is composed of thousands of smaller parts. It isn’t one single entity. And I have found it very easy and educational to engage with individual members of the so-called MSM. A lot of them like to talk about their work, and like to discuss the criticism I’ve offered, and they have taken some of it to heart, and I have come away with a new perspective on other occasions.
    .
    I disagree with your contention that we aren’t excluded from the mainstream conversation because “we” are shrill. That IS part of the reason. We have no media management game because too many of us are content to sit here in the liberal blogosphere and be shrill. Consequently, we have zero impact on the conversation outside the web, and no seat at the political or the mainstream media table.
    .
    Can you explain this:
    they’re peddling uncomfortable versions of reality that the estab-guardians find terrifying.
    What versions of reality might those be?

  • jcapan

    “What versions of reality might those be?”
    ~
    Those versions, in fact, are reality: that the powers that be do not want peace in Israel or N. Korea, or whichever shifting flashpoints around the world best preserve our geopolitical primacy, that the 1st world preys upon the developing world in wholly sinister ways (a macro version of the US class divide), that we went to war for resources and empire alone, that our politicians are bought and paid for, that the media writ large is too, that American murder, drug, cap-punishment, & incarceration rates are the highest in the world, that our health care and education systems are woefully deficient compared to the rest of the developed world.
    ~
    I would, however, agree strongly with this: “too many of us are content to sit here in the liberal blogosphere and be shrill.” The people running things are happy as hell that this pressure valve exists. Capitalism has many such built-in release pts. IMO. Howard Zinn describes this far more eloquently than I can in his Peoples History…
    ~
    James, in the end, I just happen to be a lot more radical than you. It doesn’t mean I don’t respect where you’re coming from. You have more tolerant views of Obama, our party and our media. Fair enough, it’s a healthier perspective to have, I simply can’t get there. I’d like to have faith in god too, but I can’t get there either.

  • James, Los Angeles

    Fair enough, my friend. I don’t exactly disagree with your view of reality, most of it. I doubt that anyone who resides in the real world does.
    g’nite.

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  • yutsano

    James, in the end, I just happen to be a lot more radical than you. It doesn’t mean I don’t respect where you’re coming from. You have more tolerant views of Obama, our party and our media. Fair enough, it’s a healthier perspective to have, I simply can’t get there. I’d like to have faith in god too, but I can’t get there either.
    -
    I could make the counterargument, JC-san, that at least since the Nixon era your attitude towards the US goverment regardless of who is in the leadership is the healthier attitude to have. We have been given reason after reason to not just blindly accept whatever the government says as truth to be unquestioned and that they we will always act in ways that are benevolent to us as a people. We can talk all we want on the Internet because it really is a Wild West of ideas, but I have seen those ideas turn into real concrete actions (like anti-Iraq war protests and the current mishegas in Iran) so I don’t see things starting and ending just because we vent on here. If anything, I find myself more motivated to DO because of what I see and hear on the Web. You’re not in the best position to influence events because of your location (keeping my green monster under wraps for now!) but you do provide someone who reads your words a seed to make an effective change here in the US. Our founding came from men first discussing ideas on how to make governance more just, we shouldn’t undercut the exchange of ideas just because it seems easy.

  • http://politicsone.co.cc/obama-considering-an-executive-order-allowing-indefinite-detention Obama considering an executive order allowing indefinite detention. | Pure Politics

    [...] States, but also in other countries that look to or use the U.S. as an example. There are still ambiguities about whether or not there actually is a draft executive order, as Time’s Michael Scherer [...]

  • cp4ab0lishm3nt

    This story is completely false and I think you need to check it out before you jump the gun.

  • http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com lawyermommy

    Must a crime INVOLVE A CELEBRITY FOR IT TO BE RIGOROUSLY AND CONTINUOUSLY INVESTIGATED???? WHat happened to truth in journalism.

    I am an innocent Law abiding citizen have been illegally wiretapped by Shay Riley of the “Black Female Interracial Marriage blog” and not ONE investigative journalist has had to the courage of ability to uncover these digital hoodlums, these cyber fiends, these crass online Psychopath, Shay Riley aka Evia Moore aka Halima Sal Andersen.

    Shay Riley of the “Black Female Interracial marriage blog” is a serial Predator who has illegally wiretapped my phone for years. This woman activates the microphone om my cell and home phones and uses it to listen to the conversations in my life. This woman runs very many interracial marriage sites pretending to be interracially married and using the lives of legitimately married women like me as fodder for her PREVARICATION.She is married to a BLACK NIGERIAN CROOK NAMED AKBAR SHABZZ of the “Project 21 site”-.

    Why should the ability of these FELONS to access hundreds of legitimate websites and alter information enable them stay free. They continue to elude law enforcement and commit felony after felony.

    This woman is a VILE PREDATOR who in all probability molests and abuses her own children. Why can this matter not be persistently and continuously investigated by an elite journalist and the truth found out???

    Screaming BLACK POWER and running many various black power blogs should not be cover for this vile REPROBATE. But it is. Why is she not in jail Why is she free to write nonsense and scurry around committing unprecendented inavsion of privacy, felonies and probably sexually abusing and molesting her OWN CHILDREN!! WHY????

    The FBI and the US Secret Service have not been able to route this woman. See her on ww.akbarshabazz.com. When people say they look ordinary, I say WHAT DO YOU EXPECT??? A sign on Shay Riley which reads, “I am a Felon and illegally wiretap and Send Trojans and spy ware to innocent law abiding citizens computers so that I can criminally stalk them, steal from them, co opt their lives experiences and oh, yes since I am a psychopath, I probably molest my children too.”!!! NO, she has to appear ordinary to lure and assault unassuming people online and elsewhere!

    WHY SHOULD THIS WOMAN who runs hundreds of websites under numerous aliases, a fiend who listens to and records my calls even activating my microphones to follow my life and uses Trojans/spyware for my computers BE FREE?????

    Can these CYBER Bots Shay Riley, her husband Akbar SHabazz and their accomplices be capable of deceiving the slew of so called ELITE TECHNOLOGY AND CRIME INVESTIGATORS???

  • http://cfelectro.com/real/2009/06/obama-considering-an-executive-order-allowing-indefinite-detention/ Obama considering an executive order allowing indefinite detention. | No Bull. news service.

    [...] are still ambiguities about whether or not there actually is a draft executive order, as Time’s Michael Scherer [...]

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