Schadenfreude on Hold

It’s a sad quirk of human behavior that we can’t seem to avoid paying attention to these things. The post and comment count on the topic is evidence enough.
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It’s particularly sad that undue attantion to other people’s sex lives is what motivates a lot of the hatred and bigotry that still remains socially acceptable here in America.
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If we could all agree to keep our noses out of everybody elses marriages, we’d all end up better off.

At least Sanford didn’t pull a Prince Charles and tell Maria he wished he was her tampon. A statement like that comes with strings attached.

You are a journalist, Joe, and I find your objectivity and intelligence admirable. Your sentiments here are understandable, but I can’t share them.
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So-called defenders of heterosexual marriage cry that letting gay people marry will destroy the marriage. (Obama’s actions place him in this camp just as firmly as Mark Sanford.) Yet those same people often go astray. When that happens we are all supposed to have sympathy for these people when the vagaries of the human heart lead them astray. Yet they make no such allowance for the very real emotions that gay people feel for each other.
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I’m done feeling sympathy for people who can find no compassion for others in themselves. Time and again people like Sanford have denied basic human rights and needs to others. Sanford, with his stance on gay marriage and his refusal to accept Federal bailout dollars to help the people of his state, has consistently been one of the worst.
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What is sad, really, is that after his incident neither Sanford nor any of his fellow travelers in the conservative and Christian community will change. Sanford might be Exhibit A in the argument that humans are flawed, and that we all should hold compassion and empathy for one another. Yet you can be sure that by tomorrow the conservatives will once again argue that gay people are second-class citizens and that poor people must be deserving of their poverty because only bad people are poor.

Paul Dirks: I agree on one level, but I still think Sanford’s hypocrisy needs to be highlighted here — not pushed under the rug in some heartfelt attempt to afford him his “humanity,” since his often stated principles deny me mine.
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From his 2012 Web site: “Mark Sanford is against gay marriage and defines marriage as one man and one woman. He is also against letting gay couple adopt children.” [http://www.sanford2012.org/]
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Gotta love that “sanctity of marriage” BS coming from these politurds.

Oh sh*t!
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Th’ “compassion” fer Markie be startin’ t’ be trotted out – I can’t be standin’ it!
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Th’ guy is a hypocritical adultrous piece o’ crap, and tha’ be tha’!
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When ye’ve made a life commitment t’ someone, an’ years later someone appearin’ t’ be sweeter fruit comes along an ye find yerself attracted t’ ‘er, ye take yerself out o’ range ’til ye be gettin’ o’er it! ESPECIALLY if ye be part o’ a party tha’ be hammerin’ constant ’bout th’ “sanctity” o’ marriage an’ toutin’ their moral “superiority”.
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Th’ guy had a wife an’ 4 kids, an’ now we’re yammerin’ how th’ heart will have its way? Wha’ a crock!
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I be havin’ ZERO sympathy ‘r understandin’ fer th’ guy, an’ I want ‘im t’ just be tarred an’ feathered and walked off th’ end o’ th’ plank! An’ when tha’ be done, I don’t want t’ be hearin’ ’bout ‘im no more!
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An’ tha’ be all I have t’ be sayin’ ’bout tha!
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Half th’ active threads on th’ page be about this mealy-mouthed b*stard – an’ now JOE jumps inta th’ fray???
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Sh*t! Sh*t! Sh*t!
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Arrgh!

I have sympathy for Jenny and their children. For Mark, none. He’s a public figure that chose to make morality an issue. He chose the path he followed. He said one thing and did the exact opposite. He deserves EVERYTHING he’s getting now. He opened this wound. I choose to pour salt in it.

off topic, but…
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yesterday, JNS did a really decent post detailing GOP obstruction in the house. It only got six comments, while the “sanford” thread got dozens and dozens. Sanford is a sideshow…but if we expect the swampland bloggers to post on substantive issues like GOP obstruction, we have to pay attention to those posts!

“The Mark Sanford case is a bit different from the others, and almost admirable.”
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Joe-The guy abandoned his wife, children, state and staff and lied repeatly to everyone and you find his conducted a bit different and almost admirable because he fell in love. That should make the citizens of his state and everyone involved feel so much better. He didn’t abandon us for lust that would be wrong. He did it for love.

I couldn’t care less whether Mark Sanford is an adulterer or not. Nor should South Carolina voters. What they SHOULD care about is the fact that their governor disappeared for almost a week, was out of touch, and not able to carry out the duties for which he was elected. The fact that they he was having an affair in Argentina does not have any impact on his abilities of governor; the fact that he recklessly abandoned his responsibilities does. And the fact that the media insists on concentrating on the first point and ignoring the second point shows that they’re really more interested in lurid stories than significant ones.

p-luk: I agree that we need to pay more attention to threads like GOP obstructionism, but in a roundabout way, we are doing just that with the posts on Sanford. Sanford was considered a potential Presidential candidate before this happened. We’re taking him out. Pawlenty was considered a potential candidate too. His actions in the Franklin/Cole farce give us ammunition to take his ass out too. Palin’s every move gives us more ammunition to use against her in 2012. Newt’s words and deeds gives us the same opportunity. Reducing their ranks means less republicans to obstruct. I plan on running over all of them that give me an opening.

If he really felt compelled to “follow his heart” he should also follow the Edward VIII precedent and give up his office.

Also – pluk’s probably right, but for you salacious story fans, Inside Edition came up with a pic of Ensign’s “other significant other” – in fact, of the two couples together. Yeesh.

I agree about the personal side of this. And I do, personally, feel for him.
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But there’s no way he should remain Gov. of a state that he 100% walked out on. What if a tornado had hit? Or a prison riot? Or any number of things that would have required his immediate attention as Gov?
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For a full week, no one was in charge of the executive branch of SC…and that’s utterly inexcusable.

any sign that a pol actually is human, has flaws, has faults, is often an indication that, post-scandal, he (or she, but usually he) might be more able to relate a little better to the sinners he represents
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Frankly, that strikes me as an indictment of our political discourse. Of course our politicians are imperfect– they’re human, and they’re in a profession that requires a dozen compromises a day!
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That’s why the dozens of movement conservative books extolling the virtues of the cowboy rebel patriot genius George W. Bush were so creepy and corrosive. And the (less powerful, but detectable) tendency on the left to overpraise Obama above and beyond what he’s done is in the same category.
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Sanford made his career in large measure on “morality” (read: demonizing the other). Screw him and the horse he rode in on. I feel for his family, though.
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Also, p-luk is 100% correct. This stuff is cotton candy.

Awfully nice of you, Joe, but Sanford fell in love on the taxpayers’ dime & allegedly used quite a few of those dimes for at least one trip to Argentina in which he did more than hawk Carolina rice on the Pampas. If that wasn’t enough, he abandoned not just his wife & children — his business, up to a point — but also his, as he called it, “fiduciary responsibility” to the people of his state. Oh, & then he lied about everything.

Bill Clinton was an acknowledged philanderer when he took office, yet Republicans, including Sanford, were outraged to find out he was still kanoodling with the help. Sanford demanded his resignation. Sanford, by contrast with Clinton, had the gall to run for office as a family-values hero, so it isn’t so much that he’s a flaming hypocrite — that, too — but that he sold South Carolinians a new Cadillac & delivered a used Chevy. They sure didn’t get their moneys-worth. He should resign.

The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

Elvis –
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It mi’ be cotton candy, lad, bu’ it be ahead o’ th’ Iran column…
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YARR!

“I take no pleasure in political sex scandals”
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Didn’t Joe write a rather famous book that made a bit of hay around that very topic? I guess Joe just takes profit in political sex scandals.

PNNTO
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“I take no pleasure in political sex scandals”
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Didn’t Joe write a rather famous book that made a bit of hay around that very topic? I guess Joe just takes profit in political sex scandals.
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Ouch

I love cotton candy. Mark himself put a “kick me” sign on his ass. I’m happy to oblige. When Jefferson got caught with $90,000 in his freezer, I went after him. When Blago pulled his stunt, I went after him. When Edwards cheated, I really went after him. I’m a democrat and so are they. Having a republican self-righteous hypocrite pull a stunt like this (on Father’s Day no less) isn’t something I can walk away from. I have faith in my fellow Swamplanders to do the right thing on the serious posts. I’ll provide a little comic relief and throw the handgrenades on threads like this.

One, im pretty sure if you hadn’t read some of his emails to the lady concerned, you’d think he was just a run of the mill hypocritical conservative.
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Two, until i understand why after he was kicked out he went straight to Argentina (where his mistress lives) i won’t believe in the ‘agonizing of his soul’.
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Three, I’d hate to see an act of infidelity propel someone’s career forward.

I’ve me no problem wi’ ass-kickin’ an’ handgrenades – it’s th’ complete obscene “compassion” line developin’ in favor o’ th’ scurvy adulteror I be takin’ issue wi’!
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‘is wife be deservin’ o’ compassion; ‘is kids be deservin’ o’ compassion; ‘is staff be deservin’ o’ compassion; th’ State o’ South Carolina be deservin’ o’ (a wee bit – they did do th’ electin’ o’ th’ idiot) compassion.
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Bu Markie? NOT. ONE. SHRED! T’ th’ plank, ye scabby-hearted scoudrel!
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Arrgh!

[...] Klein is a sucker for a love story, I [...]

I watched KO last night and thought Keith deserved the “worst person in the world” award for his glee over the details of this sorry mess. There’s no question Sanford was a jerk. But he is a very hurting human being at the moment, and it’s unseemly to revel in that.
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There is no excuse at all for publishing the emails between Sanford and his Argentinian “very dear friend.” Tacky in the extreme, not to mention cruel. Some may think that politicians are fair game because they’re elected and have power, but it’s in the interests of the public good to not eat those who are willing to work on our behalf. It starts with finding people who are willing to serve on local town boards, and that’s increasingly hard to do.
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I wonder if love has always gone smoothly for those who don’t have any sympathy for this man. Never loved and lost? Never ached and wept for what can’t be?
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And as for his wife, she’s one pissed off lady (understandable), but I doubt very must she’s done everything she possibly could to be a “good wife.” good grief. It sure sounds like she’s planning to hold him hostage over this, and although I don’t know as I could blame her for that either, she doesn’t strike me as being terribly willing to “forgive.”
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All of this is not to excuse his appalling irresponsibility in the last few days. Should he step down? Probably -even though he may very well have been outed by a vindictive opponent. Somebody sent those emails to the State, after all.
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And if he’s used public funds to carry this out, then good riddance and throw the book at him.

Here’s an important question:
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http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/sanford_to_lover_i_love_the_erotic_beauty_of_you_h.php#comment-3507951
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As inappropriate as I found publiching the e-mails, the fact that the local newpaper has had them for months suggests that they were sitting on a good story for a suspiciously long time.

Actually the delay is explained in the story.
http://www.thestate.com/sanford/story/839930.html

Joe Klein
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Almost admirable?
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Ok so I wonder if YOUR wife were to enter into a sexual relationship with a dude in Argentina for over a year and then went missing for Mother’s day weekend and didn’t call your kids if you would say SHE was almost admirable if she stood up and told the world what she did only because everybody knew she had been AWOL for 5 days.
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Some how I doubt it.
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I won’t even get into the Bill Clinton analogies but its absolutely phucking AMAZING that Republicans can totally phuck over their wives and kids and the Villager NEVER hold it against them. From Newt to Rush to Ensign to Vitter to now Sanford, you damn near have to pull teeth to get MSM types to mention their past transgressions. Hell every single time, and I mean EVERY SINGLE TIME, Joe mentions Newt Gingrich he make it a point to say he is smart/briliant/very intelligent. But does he ever mention he is a sorry son of a b*tch who cheated on every wife he has ever had and brought divorce papers to his first wife while she was battling cancer?!
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HELL NO.
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Give me a break. Mark Sanford is a dick who doesn’t believe in empathy, so I am sure as sh*t not going to spare any of mine for him.

“There is no excuse at all for publishing the emails between Sanford and his Argentinian “very dear friend.” Tacky in the extreme, not to mention cruel.”
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Well some one leaked the emails to the newspaper. And some one with access to Sanford’s email account. They are obligated to publish them now. What justification do they used not to publish them?
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KO’s conducted was not his most shinning moment that is for sure. But I think people need to remember that none of this would be happening if it were not for the conduct of one person here. He could handled this better too.

There is no excuse at all for publishing the emails between Sanford and his Argentinian “very dear friend.”
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Again I don’t think the National audience is understanding the timeline. The e-mails were the smoking gun and they’ve been in the hands of the local paper for over 6 months. The flight to Argentina was the confirmation that the paper needed and the e-mails are the reason Sanford was compelled to come clean.
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http://www.thestate.com/sanford/story/839930.html

demwoman – I’m curious (genuinely) why Sanford isn’t deserving of compassion. I agree that he’s a scoundrel, but in this at least he doesn’t seem to be a malicious scoundrel.
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Why isn’t it possible to thoroughly condemn his behavior and still feel for the human dilemma?
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It’s very difficult to know what’s going on in another person’s marriage, and i doubt very much this is as simple as she’s deserving of compassion and he’s deserving of none.
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I am not trying to excuse his behavior. He’s a scoundrel not only for what he did, but for the hypocrisy of it. And especially for his “gay marriage will destroy the institution of marriage” bit.

kathy
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If your husband was phucking someone in another country for over a year you wouldn’t think he was a “malicious scoudrel”. Even if he didn’t call your kids on Father’s Day because he was with the other woman?
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That’s definitely your call but I know one thing, all of the men calling for Sanford to be suppored and for people to show some empathy towards him I strongly believe would be singing a different tune if it was THEIR wife flying to Argentina to get it in with “Rico” for over a year.

So I wonder who outed him. A political rival? Or just somebody who hacked his email? I wonder if the newspaper will pursue that.

“You can fool some of the people all of the time….”

Most of them seem to be Republicans.

kathy
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He outed himself. Hell the paper had those emails for months and weren’t planning on publishing them. Then he flew off to Argentina for 5 days without telling anybody including his staff or the Lt Governor or his wife or his boys and on Father’s Day weekend no less. He did it to himself, and blatantly. He isn’t a victim here.

Has anyone thought that it might have been his wife that passed on the emails? The did say it was the personal account of the Gov. Or, in keeping with the Repub trend lately, a scorned mistress/employee?

sgwhite. I think of maliciousness as intent to do people harm, and this sap thought that his family wouldn’t be harmed because no one would find out. It seldom happens that way, of course. So he deluded himself, but I doubt he set out to hurt his wife and kids. But he is a thorough scoundrel, no question about it.
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And I have the luxury of not being personally affected by his behavior. I would expect his family, his friends, his constituents, his party, to be royally pissed.
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Affairs of the heart that lead to the breakup of marriages are not that uncommon, after all. When was the last time you reamed out a friend or colleague who separated or divorced and demanded to know all the details so you could decide whether they’re a scoundrel? I think my point is that what he did was reprehensible and has logical consequences for his public life, but I don’t quite get the investment in the private details.

kathy –
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Bu’ wi’ all yer “mitigatin’” qualifyin’ ye DO be excusin’ ‘is behavior! Fer God’s sake, ye’re even castin’ superstition an’ blame on ‘is wife fer not bein’ a “good enough” spouse! Jesus!
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He weren’t achin an’ weepin’ fer wha’ coudn’a be until AFTER he were havin’ his cake, eatin’ it too, an’ comin’ home wi’ crumbs all o’er ‘is face so’s ‘e were gettin’ caught.
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Nope, lassie, no compassion be comin fr’m me! If th’ cap’n ever tried anythin’ li’ this, ‘e’d be findin some o’ ‘is most precious parts sliced, diced, pureed, an’ tossed t’ th’ curb fer th’ dogs t’ be feastin’ on. THA’S all th’ compassion I be feelin’ fer Markie.
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YARR!

sgwhite. I agree that he’s not a victim – and yes, in a sense he did out himself. I think tantef’s idea is interesting.
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BTW, Stehpanopoulis pointed out on the news last night that the Dems who have been caught in sexual escapades most recently have resigned, but the Republicans haven’t. That’s interesting.

Yeah, Kathy,

Le’s start goin’ after th’ people who exposed ‘im instead o’ holdin’ is’ own feet t’ the fire ’til ‘e be scramin’ fer mercy! Way t’ try t’ divert attention – I be beginnin’ t’ think ye be bein’ paid by some conservative “Christian” organization t’ be beginnin’ th’ rehabilitation o’ one o’ yer shinin’ stars!
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YARR!

Tha’ should either be “screamin’”, or “scrammin”…I can’t be decidin’ which, now .
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Arrgh!

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/24/john-kerry-on-sanford-too-bad-palin-didnt-go-missing-too/
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Joe Klein may not have schadenfreude, but John Kerry sure does. John Kerry is probably not the most loathesome politician in the US, but he’s high on the list. What a jerk. Hoping that Sarah Palin “goes missing” is pretty low, even for a DYKWIA twit like tail-gunner John.

demwoman. not intending to find mitigating circumstances. Absolutely nothing he did is excusable – no way, no how. I’m just feeling for the pain he’s in.
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(I’m trained as a therapist, but not practicing these days. So it’s probably just as well that I can feel compassion for the lout.)

kathy
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Whether he believed he would be caught to me is just more proof that it WAS malicious. You don’t cover up something unless you know its wrong. And if you know its wrong then you know there will be consequences when it comes out. This guy was there for Clinton, voted for impeachment, called him a scoundrel and was as holier than thou as you can get. Nobody can claim he didn’t know better. He did, yet he chose to cheat anyway. And haven’t you asked yourself how he just so happened to find a lover in another country? Sorry but again if it was my spouse I wouldn’t excuse her as not being malicious and I don’t need to excuse him either.
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Now if I go by Sanford’s positions and those of his moral majority buddies then since he is a role model and he cheated he actually encouraged kids growing up in SC to also cheat on their spouses. Isn’t that the spiel they always give when its a Democrat caught with their pants down?! That they are influencing the kids by what they have done?!
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I am sorry but again he made his private details public yesterday in a press conference, not me. And his actions prior to that are what led to the press conference.
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His wife and kids are the victims here. Sanford is just the ass hole hypocrite who chose to expose his trangressions to the world.

I be feelin’ li’ I mi’ should be apologizin…not tha’ I actual BE apologiin, mind ye, jus’ feelin’ li’ maybe I should fer me extra added piss ‘n vinegar ‘ere – it be a combination o’ frustration tha’ thar be no new relevent-type threads so’s I keep be havin’ t’ come back ‘ere, an’ th’ true pissed-offness a’ th’ mountin’ an’ th’ shillin’ o’ th’ “compassion” rescue operation effort fer markie gainin’ steam just one day – one day! – after he be forced t’ come clean.
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Nail th’ scumbag’s testicles t’ a tree an’ let th’ crows have ‘em!
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Arrgh!

And sgwhite is the jerk who lionizes racially motivated assaults . . . .

So PW, what’s Michelle’s punishment for supporting a patient-dumping scheme?

Not only is Governor not deserving of compassion, he is deserving of getting taken for everything he’s got and a serious ass-whuppin’ to boot. If his wife released the e-mails, good for her. When private citizens are involved in something like this, there is some expectation of privacy. A very public figure who also happened to very publicly tout his own moral superiority is just asking for the proverbial boot up the ass. He and others used the Clinton fiasco for every political advantage they could while holding their own Polly Purebread selves up as a contrast.
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I love my wife and she loves me, but if either of us ever cheated, it would be over. I wouldn’t even consider a recociliation. Not for a second. I wouldn’t forgive her and I know she wouldn’t forgive me. For the couples that would try to work things out, they have my admiration. They’re more forgiving than I would be. If Jenny is the source of the e-mails, she may be just doing to his life what he did to hers. There’s alot to be said for revenge.

spob, if you can’t stay on topic, just stopping by to drop in non-sequitur ad hominems, you’re going to be ignored.
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Non-spob folks, please let’s don’t turn this into a spob thread, ok? Thanks.

RIP Farrah Fawcett

Elvis
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I have tried giving that advice several times but its usually to no avail so I don’t even try anymore. There are some people who are always going to try to debate a brick wall. It is what it is.

pirate wench: I suggest you scream and not scram. I’m impressed with your idea of nailin’ his jingle-bobs to a tree for the crows to eat. Very creative and image provoking.

pirate wench thank you so much for your post at 10:29. I agree with every word, and the rest you have made here today.

Kathy –
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Thar be some pain tha’ be not deservin’ o’ sympathy. Thar be some pain tha’ only be deservin’ o bein’ told t’ be bendin’ over an’ takin’ an’ learnin’ a lesson fr’m fer next time!
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An’ if ye be feelin’ so much fer th’ pain he be in tha’ ye be wonderin’ wha’ his wife were doin’ t’ deserve bein’ cheated on, ye be misplacin’ yer compassion, by me own lights!
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An, spongy, go f yerself!
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Alri’ – tha’ be taken care o’ – everyone else can be ignorin’ ‘im now…
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Arrgh!

sacredh: I’m going to have to think about the relationship between “deserving compassion” and having compassion. You’re right that I did ask demwoman why Sanford didn’t “deserve compassion,” but I mostly think human beings deserve compassion.

OK, elvis, so Gingrich was germane? And let’s look at a quote from you: “Sanford made his career in large measure on ‘morality’(read: demonizing the other).” Guess what, Michelle campaigned for Barack on sacrifice, sharing the pie and all that other stuff–come to find out though, that she didn’t like all the ‘hood folks in her place of employment–that wasn’t personal, just business. So you guys get to expand to Gingrich and make larger points about hypocrisy, but I don’t? Whatever.
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And Sg, how are those Austrian lessons going? You clowned yourself trying to defend Barack’s Quayleism. Get that right, DB. And like I said before SG, keep your fake-hard wannabe butt out of county.

Sanford deserves compassion, we all do. His hypocrisy could possibly be the death knell of the GOP pontificating on family values. If that’s the case than I am grateful for his indescretions. At the same time,I am sorry for his family who will surely suffer the most.

sacred, we mi’ be havin’ a contest t’ see who be comin’ up wi’ th’ most image provokin’ an’ appropriate treatment fer’ th’ wayward members o’ markie’s anatomy an’ award a prize!
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If we be gettin image provokin’ enough, maybe TIME’ll turn yella an’ give us a new thread!
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Two birds, me hearty, two birds!
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YARR

demwoman – sure I have compassion for his wife, too. That’s a given. And no, I’m not blaming her for this, just trying to recognize relationships are complicated. I don’t have any problem at all with how you feel about this. Was just curious.
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An, here be me response t’ tha’ Kathy –
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If a relationship be “complicated”, ye take care o’ th’ complications an’ work ‘em out ‘r end th’ relationship wi’ a clean, honest break – not by findin’ some “desire o’ th’ heart” t’ frolic wi’ t’ ease yer so-called pain!
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“Me wife doesn’t understand me” be th’ one o’ th’ oldest, lamest, most dishonest lines in th’ book!
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Arrgh!

middle – it sure would be sweet if this brought an end to the GOP preaching, but I’m not going to be holding my breath.
Ken Blackwell (who ran against Steele for RNC chair) was on Hardball last night and wasn’t defending Sanford at all, but Matthews had to ask him a dozen times before he’d acknowledge that Republicans aren’t morally superior to Democrats.

I think I can safely say that the GOP brand has taken another dive.
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I wonder if the DOW will kick them off when their stock drops below a buck…

The GOP, generally speaking, is morally superior to Dems. We usually, not always, clean our own house. And last I checked, we don’t have a guy who left a young woman to die as a senior leader of our party. And when a whack-job is on the stage of our presidential debates, we pound him. We also gave Trent “Soft of Segregation” Lott the boot. And we don’t make common cause with loathesome scum like William Ayers. Finally, we don’t think that the evacuation of the brains of a healthy viable fetus should be legal.
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I like Ken Blackwell. I wish he would have told Matthews that yes, the GOP is a more moral party. It is.

kathy: I think most people do deserve compassion, unless they’ve shown they don’t deserve compassion. I feel bad for his wife. I feel terrible for his sons. Sanford put the wants of one person (himself) over the needs of his wife and sons. Family comes first even over our own desires. He cheated his wife. He cheated his sons. He cheated his state. He deserves scorn. not compassion.

. . .the GOP is a more moral party. It is.
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Don’t take the bait, guys . . . just . . . don’t.

well, afguy, please explain Ted Kennedy’s position in your party . . . .

spob clearly suffers from Attention Defecit Disorder. I just can’t decide that if it refers to his chronic refusal to stay on topic or his incessant need to draw attention to himself.

sacredh – Deserves scorn, deserves compassion. Middlegirl said more succinctly what I meandered around about the whole thread. He deserves compassion because we all do.

Paul D. that’s good.

PD, are you looking to get clowned again? The morally superior thing was in response to an earlier post. And once the thread was expanded to Gingrich, Michelle became fair game.
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Troll.

PD,
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Think Linda Blair’s character in “The Exorcist”, saying whatever vile thought came to mind, trying to get a rise out of the priest.
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This is ALL about trying to “get a rise” or attention. Think “spoiled little child”.

I guess as I got older I lost some of my ability to forgive and forget. I’m more of an Old Testament geezer now. Make the MFers pay. Vengence is mine sayeth the sacredh.

Paul D
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Cmon man PLEASE let it go.

Here is my question. How does anybody know what he did with “Maria” for 5 days. What if you found out he was beating the breaks off her 24/7 and told her he loved her and would be back soon right before he got on the airplane back. Would you still find some compassion for him? Its amazing to me how many false stories that have been put out on this subject but now people are willing to take Sanford’s story at face value.
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Sigh.

A handy guide for those of you trying to keep track of recent Rethuglican hijinks:
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http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/06/sex_scandal_flow_chart.php
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Enjoy!

Back on topic.
The main aspect of the story that I find most intersting is the role of “The State” in all this. They had e-mails. They got them from somewhere. Whoever they got them from either breached the Governor’s privacy or the Governor was using a publicly provided e-mail account inappropriately. They held onto the e-mails for six months. They waited (probably appropriatetly) for independent confirmation before they did anything with them, but then they published them in their entirelty which I find outrageously tacky.
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So what’s the story behind the story?

sg, given your justification of racist violence and your being clowned on the “Austrian” point, you’re in no position to tell anyone about posting propriety. The bottom line, sg, is that youre some fake poseur. What’d ya do, go to college, get militant and entertain fantasies of being some thug like Mychal Bell? That a lot of Swampland posters don’t reject you as a violence-justifying scum says a lot more about them than me. (For the benefit of those who may not know, sgwhite thought it justified that Justin Barker got the crap beaten out of him by the Jena Six defendants. That, in my view, should remove him from decent company in here, but no, fellow travelers are always so forgiving.)

A handy guide for those of you trying to keep track of recent Rethuglican hijinks:
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http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/06/sex_scandal_flow_chart.php
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Enjoy!
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So where are the “troll” police on that post?

Sanford’s a politician. At this point, I’m inclined to believe that he’s probably lying because of one telling sign – his lips are moving.
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Given all of the sellouts and reversals of positions that have been occurring on healthcare and surveillance, I’m inclined to apply that to leaders of both parties (with some notable and specific exceptions).

Welcome to another edition of Lonesome Spooge’s Cracker Barrel: Where Discourse Goes to Die.
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I’m outta here.

I’m outta here.
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FT,
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Save me a seat at the bar (or wherever it is that you’re going).
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Nothing being accomplished here.

PD wrote ‘The main aspect of the story that I find most intersting is the role of “The State” in all this. They had e-mails. They got them from somewhere. Whoever they got them from either breached the Governor’s privacy or the Governor was using a publicly provided e-mail account inappropriately.’
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I have a theory about who may have provided the emails. I read that the woman ‘Maria’ was also married. Could the email tipster be the husband Maria was cheating on (who may have had access to her account)?
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BTW — so far the people posting on this thread have shown admirable restraint. Keep it up!

Hey everybody, remember awhile back when everybody was making fun of me because of my “obsession” with Joe LIEberman and my anger about him being bribed to stay in the Democratic caucus?
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http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/lieberman-suggests-obama-isnt-standing-up-for-iranian-protesters/
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Re: Suitable use of Sanford’s male anatomy. Personally I would suggest stuffing Sanford’s appendage into the trolls oral orafice and then nailing said combined package to the bow of Piratewench’s ship and turning into the waves kicked up by a Nor’easter.

Weird. The subject goes from Sanford to the GOP as a whole, but I am a bad guy for making it bipartisan. Then, the subject of the morality of the GOP as a whole comes up, and I am a bad guy for saying that the GOP is more moral than the Democrat party. Then someone uses that “Rethuglican” comment, and no one calls out that trollishness. I don’t understand. I want to play in the sandbox, by the sandbox rules. No one will tell them to me. Is it that I have to pretend I am a KosKid to get people to talk to me?

“Hey everybody, remember awhile back when everybody was making fun of me because of my “obsession” with Joe LIEberman and my anger about him being bribed to stay in the Democratic caucus?”
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No.
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(Sorry that was just my way of welcoming you back SG.)

And “Joe LIEberman” is germane. Someone please, please explain the rules . . . . Im having a hard time figuring them out.
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tantef, if I didn’t know better, I’d think you were trying to be mean to me.

Like I said . . . think “spoiled little child”. It just fits sooooo well.

unfortunately for you, afguy, the “spoiled little child” administers some serious ass-whippings in here.

Paul Dirks
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They said their independent confirmation came in the form of Sanford’s presser yesterday. At that point they had a compelling reason to release the emails. They would either support or refute his characterization of the relationship. And for a lot of people who might want to think it was just a one time or two time thing who could call for his impeachment or leave it along it would provide context to what the situation really was and in my mind at least the level of hypocrisy.
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Basically at that point you have to come up with a compelling enough reason NOT to release it. You could say the kids and the wife but what if she ALSO didn’t know the true extent of the relationship? What if she now is able to make a more informed decision about whether to try again with him?
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Im just sayin

@sg,

Sanford deserves my “compassion” now? I’ll state for the record that marital infidelity is pretty far down on the list of things that I care about in a politician (to the extent that it involves lies and deception, I can’t say that I find it totally irrelevant.) But can we get a little perspective here? This is a sitting governor who left the country without notifying anybody in order to continue his affair with a married mother, skipped out on Father’s Day, and put his staff in the position of lying to cover the governor’s tracks. I still don’t believe Sanford is telling the truth. And, frankly, I don’t believe his wife either.
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So far the fallout has been that he has resigned as Chairman of the Republican Governor’s Association and is now doomed as a candidate for President in ’12.
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But I’m supposed to feel compassion for this a-hole because he is in love? (Cue scene in Election where the teacher having an affair with a student declares “but we were in love!”)

They’re not giving us much to play with today. It’s 90 and humid here. I don’t want to go outside. I think one of you must have said something offensive and now they’re not going to give us another thread.

sgwhite,
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At this point, is there much he or his PR people could put out that anyone would believe?
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If his wife truly decides to try and make a go of things, I think there’s not much doubt that she’s going to take her “pound of flesh” from him privately. If they divorce, she’s going to get pretty much whatever she wants out of him. Both of them know it.
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Politically, it appears that a divorce has already happened. He’s “dead meat”.

@sg, again…
As I said at the top of the thread. Part of the problem our collective inability to ignore this kind of thing. Gossip and scandal mongering is what people do who can’t bring themselves to view pornography.
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My questions around the emails center around what the paper knew and when did they know it. I don’t expect them to reveal their source but I’m sure there’s a whole ‘nuther story waiting to be written about how this came to light.

afguy: His wife is the heiress. Mark might be the one walking away with the bonus prize.

I think I have one of the rules figured out–you can always talk about healthcare. So how about this:
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http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/25/obama-would-not-pledge-his-family-to-his-own-healthcare-plan/
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So Barack wants to foist something on ordinary Americans, many many many of whom are fine with their healthcare already that isn’t good enough for his family? Ok. But I am a bad guy because I don’t want what I have now for my family to be diminished. Heck, I’m just following the lead of the Messiah.

His wife is the heiress. Mark might be the one walking away with the bonus prize.
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sacred,
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Can you see a judge awarding him much, given what has transpired? Or would this fall in the realm of her giving him something to cut her losses and avoid the court battle?

How about a lifetime supply of SKIL tools and his wardrobe, including the hiking equipment.

Paul Dirks
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The State could be lying of course but they have said repeatedly that they got the emails totally anonymously. Which is the whole reason they never ran them according to them. I mean it COULD have happened that way, right?

tantef, I don’t be wantin’ spongy’s leprous hide nailed t’ me fine trim vessel – any contact wi’ ‘im causes whatever ‘e be touchin’ t’ rot ri’ through!
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Ye can dip ‘im in salt an’ set ‘im in a dingy off th’ coast o’ Somalia…tha’ mi’ work…
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YARR!

afguy:

You may have hit upon the only plausible explanation for her willingness to give him another chance.

I “second” the call for a new topic here by the Time bunch.
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I feel like we’re going to war with the thread we have, not the one we wish we had.
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Seriously, the horse is obviously deceased and somewhat aromatic. And my whip arm is getting tired.

>em>You may have hit upon the only plausible explanation for her willingness to give him another chance.
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FlownOver,
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But, of course, – officially – it will be “for the good of the children”, NOT “to keep the leacherous SOB from getting any reward out of this”.
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And I doubt ANY air conditioning will be needed in their house after this point if they decide to stay together. More like “enforced celibacy”.

PW, ye lubber. The word is “dinghy”, not “dingy”. I bet youre the type of sailor who calls a “ladder” the “stairs” and mispronounces “quay” and “leeward”.
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And since my hide was good enough for a Navy vessel, I’d say it’s good enough for whatever flotsam you call a seaworthy vessel.

spob:
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If you want people to take you seriously, here is the primary ground rule for playing in the sandbox: Try to demonstrate actual principles.
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If you pay attention, most of the liberal commenters here have a fairly arms-length relationship to Democratic politicians. We praise them when they (rarely) do good. We tolerate them most of the time. And we are more than willing to criticize them when they screw up.
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OTOH, the governing philosophy of wingnuts over the past 20 years is IOKIYAR. From Stevens to Palin to DeLay to Vitter to Sanford to Limbaugh to Libby, not even rank-and-file Republicans will criticize their own. We get it already. “Morality” is simply a partisan club to bash political opponents.

Take it for what its worth…
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From Twitter
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https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/2330221057
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@BreakingNews Owner tells TMZ.com S.C. governor Stanford and his mistress were in his bar just last week. He says they were “all over each other.”

square1 – don’t be botherin’!
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YARR!

Anyone want t’ be takin’ bets tha’ when we DO be gettin’ a new thread, it be goin’ t’ be about Farrah Fawcett? Sure, it be sad, bu’ also irrelevent in th’ scheme o’ things goin’ on in th’ world t’day.
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Arrgh.

Ah, we hear from the lubber again.
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I think I demonstrate principles. When you say that there’s an IOKIYAAR policy, I get to point out Kennedy. When you yap about wingnut hypocrisy, I get to ask you about Michelle’s “Urban Healthcare Initiative”. Get it?

PW=Lubber.

What with KT taking #1 son school shopping down south I am afraid wench just might be correct.

square1,
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Know any kids that you would consider a spoiled brat?
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Well, now you know another one. Treat it that way. Reasoning doesn’t work. Timeout is the only treatment.

It might depend on whether there was any prenuptial or not. Jenny might also have a skeleton or two in her closet (speculation). There’s always the possibility that if Mark thinks his career is dead, he may feel he has nothing else to lose so he might as well go for the bucks. Regardless of what Mark did, South Carolina’s divorce laws concerning division of property could trump wrong doing on the governor’s part.

Sure, it be sad, bu’ also irrelevent in th’ scheme o’ things goin’ on in th’ world t’day.
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pirate wench,
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Are you saying irrelevant or nothing is all we can hope for today?
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With KT out of pocket (and given who’s left to post), maybe you are at that . . .

Please tell me KT isn’t “shopping” in Argentina. Argentina is down south.

I realize that we do not all live by the same rules by choice because of personal values, religious beliefs, etc. However, Gov. Sanford made a public (assuming his wedding was in front of others) and presumably sincere promise to his wife to be faithful. This obviously does not affect how good he is at managing a state budget, but it does matter. His affair shows that his wife can’t trust him so I don’t think it is too big a leap for his constituents to believe they can’t trust him either. And we absolutely should be able to trust our leaders.
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On another note, we should have compassion for others but that does not mean we need to “forgive and forget” so easily. We can be understanding though and that can translate into compassion. And we can do this while still thinking what he did was wrong/disgusting/jerk-ish and punishing him for it. We can forgive his lying to us about his whereabouts, his disregard for the office of the Governor for 5 days, but we would be doing ourselves a disservice if we easily “forget” his actions. And I think this has little to do with forgiving him for his affair. That’s up to his family alone.

Sacredh, no but I fear she might have to at least go thru South Carolina. I hope she doesn’t speed, they have to make up for all those airfares.

Speaking as someone who has had to endure Mark Sanford’s governorship up close, y’all are missing the fundamental truth here – Sanford is, was, and will always be a moral and mental weakling. He was one of the worst governors in the nation. His grandstanding over stimulus was typical of his failure to provide any real leadership, opting instead for pointless obstruction. He’s the kind of guy who would (and did) bring piglets to the state house for a photo shoot and think that was governing. Except that the Lt. Governor is even more vapid, I’d want him to resign now. God knows the state would not miss him – I’m not surprised he thought he could disappear for a week with nobody noticing.
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And this is a bi-partisan opinion. Some of the worst criticism of him over stimulus came from his own party. His vetoes were routinely overturned by the Republican-controlled statehouse. Read the State story – somebody stuck a shiv in his back and it was probably a Republican, probably someone in his own inner circle. This guy is a hack, a drip, a loser and a swine. His hypocritical sanctimony over Clinton and over marriage equality has earned him a rich reward of scorn and condemnation. I am sorry if he and his family are suffering, but those are the consequences of his actions.

This guy is a hack, a drip, a loser and a swine.
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Gee, billiecat,
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One might think you didn’t like the guy. Don’t hold back on us… we want to know what you really think of him!

The sex is fun, but in terms of governance, another new fact came out. The day the wife kicked him out, he booked a flight for June 18th to June 28th. He was planning on being AWOL over 10 days.

You find Sanford’s case ‘almost admirable’? Why? Because he actually admitted what he did? That should be the absolute, irreducible minimum amount of integrity for a public servant. Yes, I know most of them wouldn’t have (or haven’t) admitted it, but that just indicates that most of them are complete scum.
Sanford screwed up (don’t care about the affair, it’s the feckless abandonment of his responsibilities and the try at covering it up). The fact that he’s willing to face up to it makes him slightly less contemptible, it doesn’t make him admirable. That sneaking sense that he’s to be admired will translate by 2012 into a complete forgetfulness and he’ll be well on the way to the White House.