Obama Talks Tough(er) on Iran

From his prepared remarks this he’s just now delivering in the White House Brady briefing room:

Today, I want to start by addressing three issues, and then I’ll take your questions. 

First, I’d like to say a few words about the situation in Iran. The United States and the international community have been appalled and outraged by the threats, beatings, and imprisonments of the last few days. I strongly condemn these unjust actions, and I join with the American people in mourning each and every innocent life that is lost.

I have made it clear that the United States respects the sovereignty of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and is not at all interfering in Iran’s affairs. But we must also bear witness to the courage and dignity of the Iranian people, and to a remarkable opening within Iranian society. And we deplore violence against innocent civilians anywhere that it takes place.

The Iranian people are trying to have a debate about their future. Some in the Iranian government are trying to avoid that debate by accusing the United States and others outside of Iran of instigating protests over the elections. These accusations are patently false and absurd. They are an obvious attempt to distract people from what is truly taking place within Iran’s borders. This tired strategy of using old tensions to scapegoat other countries won’t work anymore in Iran. This is not about the United States and the West; this is about the people of Iran, and the future that they – and only they – will choose.

The Iranian people can speak for themselves. That is precisely what has happened these last few days. In 2009, no iron fist is strong enough to shut off the world from bearing witness to the peaceful pursuit of justice. Despite the Iranian government’s efforts to expel journalists and isolate itself, powerful images and poignant words have made their way to us through cell phones and computers, and so we have watched what the Iranian people are doing.

This is what we have witnessed. We have seen the timeless dignity of tens of thousands Iranians marching in silence. We have seen people of all ages risk everything to insist that their votes are counted and their voices heard. Above all, we have seen courageous women stand up to brutality and threats, and we have experienced the searing image of a woman bleeding to death on the streets. While this loss is raw and painful, we also know this: those who stand up for justice are always on the right side of history.

As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people have a universal right to assembly and free speech. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect those rights, and heed the will of its own people. It must govern through consent, not coercion. That is what Iran’s own people are calling for, and the Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government.

More on the House’s expected passage of global warming legislation later this week and the health care reform efforts after the jump.
The second issue I want to address is our ongoing effort to build a clean energy economy. 

This week, the House of Representatives is moving ahead on historic legislation that will transform the way we produce and use energy in America.  It is legislation that will finally spark a clean energy transformation that will reduce our dependence on foreign oil and confront the carbon pollution that threatens our planet. 

This energy bill will create a set of incentives that will spur the development of new sources of energy, including wind, solar, and geothermal power.  It will also spur new energy savings, like efficient windows and other materials that reduce heating costs in the winter and cooling costs in the summer. 

These incentives will finally make clean energy the profitable kind of energy.  And that will lead to the development of new technologies that lead to new industries that could create millions of new jobs in America – jobs that cannot be shipped overseas.  

At a time of great fiscal challenges, this legislation is paid for by the polluters who currently emit the dangerous carbon emissions that contaminate the water we drink and pollute the air we breathe.  It also provides assistance to businesses and communities as they make the gradual transition to clean energy technologies.   

This legislation is extraordinarily important for our country, and has taken a great effort on the part of many over the course of months. I want to thank the Chair of the Energy and Commerce Committee, Henry Waxman; his colleagues on that committee, Congressmen John Dingell, Ed Markey, and Rick Boucher. I also want to thank Charlie Rangel, the Chair of the Ways and Means Committee, and Collin Peterson, the Chair of the Agriculture Committee, for their many and ongoing contributions to this process. I also want to express my appreciation to Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer.

We all know why this is so important. The nation that leads in the creation of a clean energy economy will be the nation that leads the 21stcentury global economy.  That is what this legislation seeks to achieve – it is a bill that will open the door to a better future for this nation. And that is why I urge members of the House to come together and pass it.

The last issue I’d like to address is health care. 

Right now, Congress is debating various health care reform proposals.  This is obviously a complicated issue, but I am very optimistic about the progress they’re making. 

Like energy, this is legislation that will be paid for.  It will not add to our deficits over the next decade.  We will find the money through savings and efficiencies within the health care system – some of which we’ve already announced. 

We will also ensure that the reform we pass brings down the crushing cost of health care.  We simply cannot have a system where we throw good money after bad habits.  We must control the skyrocketing costs that are driving families, businesses, and our government into greater and greater debt. 

There is no doubt that we must preserve what is best about our health care system, and that means allowing Americans who like their doctors and their health care plans to keep them.  But unless we fix what is broken in our current system, everyone’s health care will be in jeopardy.  Unless we act, premiums will climb higher, benefits will erode further, and the rolls of uninsured will swell to include millions more Americans.  Unless we act, one out of every five dollars we earn will be spent on health care within a decade.  And the amount our government spends on Medicare and Medicaid will eventually grow larger than what our government spends on anything else today. 

When it comes to health care, the status quo is unsustainable.  Reform is not a luxury, it is a necessity.  And so I hope that Congress will continue to make significant progress on this issue in the weeks ahead. 

And now, I’d be happy to take your questions.

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  • 53_3

    Since Iran has accused the UN of “meddling”,
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8115232.stm
    .
    Is it a difficult guess to figure out what they will say to Obama’s echoing statement a few minutes ago?

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    I be glad I be readin’ this instead o’ watchin’ it on th’ TeeVee…I’ve me no doubts th’ questions be goin’ t’ be vapid an’ stupid.
    .
    An’ JNS – since in th’ area o’ 2/3 o’ th’ content were energy an’ health care, an since wha’ he be sayin’ regardin’ Iran be basically in keepin’ wi’ ‘is foreign policy fer tha’ country since ‘e were takin’ office, yer headline, whilst no-doubt a grabber, be misleadin’ an’ dishonest.
    .
    Spongy – go F yerself!
    .
    Arrgh.

  • spob

    Out of three cheers, Obama gets one for those remarks. Wow, a long time coming.

  • spob

    PW, get a new line, you’re boring. By the way, PW, those bumpy things down south, they have treatments for them.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    S”pongy – go F yerself!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • spob

    hey, PW, I’m just trying to help–no need for you to suffer, like I said, they can treat those things, and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure–just because the Fleet’s in doesn’t mean that you have to be so patriotic . . . .

  • http://deepbraindiary.com/2009/06/23/what-do-the-wingnuts-want-obama-to-do-with-iran-other-than-carpetbomb-it-i-mean/ What Do The Wingnuts Want Obama to Do With Iran — OTHER Than Carpetbomb It? | DEEP BRAIN DIARY

    [...] not a WORD about potential military action against the Islamic Republic!  What a [...]

  • 53_3

    Wow, Obama is just slapping the right wing journos around with wit and fire, pirate wench!
    .
    A wonderful listen!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    I’ll be lookin fer it on th’ youtube (an’ Rachel, later t’day), me hearty!
    .
    Spongy – go F yerself!
    .
    YARR!

  • ogliberal

    Now Obama is going to have to call for airstrikes, or perhaps castrating Ahmadinejad, in order to make John “Grrrrrr!” McCain happy.
    .
    We’ll get the “too late” response from the wingers, even though things in Iran aren’t much different than they were a week ago. Obama is correct – McCain can chant all he wants because he’s just one of 100 Senators (well, 99) with no real diplomatic role. Obama is the president – and only he is the president. He needs to be more cautious, calculating, and patient. (all attributes the preceding administration lacked) The overthrow of the shah took about a year and had been stewing for years. I’m sure we’d all like to see the ruling regime overthrown in a week’s time but things like this don’t happen that quickly. (and when they do, they tend to be chaotic and messy.)
    .
    On public option v. private plans:
    .
    “Why would it drive private insurers out of business?…If they tell us they’re offering a good deal, then why is it that the government, which they say can’t run anything, suddenly is going to drive them out of business? That’s not logical.”
    .
    A-freaking-men!

  • atsegga

    The Borgen Project has some good info on the cost of addressing global poverty.

    $30 billion: Annual shortfall to end world hunger.
    $550 billion: U.S. Defense budget

  • queencersei

    The last thing anyone should expect from our current health care system is logic. Or perhaps compassion. Or commen sense. Oh the hell with it!

  • stuartzechman

    Nothing says “tough” like an American President capitulating to Lindsey Graham.

  • spob

    SZ, I’ll agree with you there, Lindsey Graham is a sniveling scold.

  • dunedweller

    These accusations are patently false and absurd. They are an obvious attempt to distract people from what is truly taking place within Iran’s borders.
    .
    Hmm, this sounds so familiar. Are we sure he’s talking about Iran here?

  • gysgt213

    I just wondering which can first. GOP talking points or the reporters who feel its their responsibility to pose them in the form of a question? I guess I’m seriously supposed to believe that these people came up with these questions all on their own.
    .
    Major Garrett, who notes POTUS has finally expressed “outrage” about Iran, asking: “What took you so long?”
    .
    Chip Reid: “Were you influenced at all by John McCain or Lindsay Graham calling you timid and weak?”
    .
    Chuck Todd: “Why not spell out the consequences for Iran?”

  • spob

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124571865270639351.html
    .
    God, these people are scum. A “bullet fee”?

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    I have to say, that press conference was refreshing. Chip got owned, Major got owned, the insurance company talking point got owned Chuck got super PWNED and especially McCain, Graham and the other wingnut Congressfolks got PWNED.
    .
    “Im the President, b*tches”.
    .
    When the transcript comes out I am going to post some of the great one liners he gave.

  • spob

    yeah, sg, you oughta know about being pwned–how are those Austrian lessons coming, dummy

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Yet another lame attempt by spbob t’ be hijackin’ th’ thread – don’t let ‘im do it, crew!
    .
    Spongy – go F yerself!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Ahhhh…it be appearin’ tha’ as long as I be includin’ some sort o’ off-hand pwn b’fore signin’ off, I be evadin’ th’ duplicate post filter!
    .
    Spongy – go F yerself!
    .
    YARR!

  • dunedweller

    When the transcript comes out I am going to post some of the great one liners he gave.
    .
    yes please. A presidential size pwn-fest will be enjoyable.

  • 53_3

    wow spob:
    .
    Are you still ranting over that?
    .
    FYI, everyone, I think I’ve done enough trying to pick apart spob’s reasoning, and, as of now, I promise not to feed him anymore. It’s getting old, and a commenter on Joe Klein’s thread pointed out that they are starting to become spob threads.
    .
    I’m done!

  • deathbypapers

    “Spongy – go F yerself!”… is this really how far our discourse has descended? I weep for the norms of common civility and for the English language (regardless of whether it is being satirized or not).

  • juniusredivivus

    “spob’s reasoning”

    Is what mathematicians call an empty set.

  • 53_3

    juniusredivivus:
    .
    I prefer Douglas Adam’s “reversexcluson*”, which is a number that equals anything other than itself.
    .
    *spelling! Somewhere in Hitchhikers’ Guide To The Galaxy.

  • juniusredivivus

    deathbypapers Says:
    Tuesday, June 23, 2009 at 2:13 pm
    “Spongy – go F yerself!”… is this really how far our discourse has descended? I weep for the norms of common civility and for the English language (regardless of whether it is being satirized or not).
    ………………….

    If spob makes you weep, just wait ’til you get your hands on the Selected Speeches of Comrade Sarah Palin. They are allegedly in English, but seem in practice to be composed in some bizarre idiolect.

  • spob

    the big bad meanie, spob, with his fascist ways and lousy intellect is just a big bad bully who takes over threads and brings up irrelevant stuff . . . .
    .
    well, sorry, I guess I could be talking about Obama playing three-level chess or something. (Yes, some bozo actually said that in here. So not only does that commenter show hero-worship, the Star Trek reference shows him to be a total geek who probably learns Klingon in his oodles of free time unblemished by the company of the opposite sex.)
    .
    As for the pirate wench, I’m sure she’ll stop yapping soon enough. There’s a fleet to take care of.
    .
    And junius, spare us the “I weep” nonsense. It’s a fricking blog for Pete’s sake. You think your “empty set” comment is any better. Yeah, it’s a little more highbrow, but it’s still pretty lame. But since you’d fall under Atkins v. Virginia, I guess it’s the best we can expect.

  • 53_3

    “the big bad meanie, spob, with his fascist ways and lousy intellect is just a big bad bully who takes over threads and brings up irrelevant stuff . . .”
    .
    One of the most introspective observations I’ve seen by spob in a loooooooooong time!

  • juniusredivivus

    Poor old spobbly-wobbly. All those lies about your legal career, and here you are, trolling on threads. Not very impressive, are you? Still, I am sure you find that Sarah Palin communicates at your level, with the big crayons and the simple syntax. Shame that she can’t cut it nationally, isn’t it? Diddums!

  • gysgt213

    Actually that is one of spob’s better posts. Way to defend yourself spob and show you have a sense of humor.

  • spob

    yeah, junius, and you’re just so enlightened . . . . whatever.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    For folks like me who prefer the unfiltered version:
    .
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/us/politics/23text-obama.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

  • spob

    One question I do have is the reaction of the Iraqi government and factions therein. What have the Iraqis been saying–perhaps, just perhaps, we could see a Swampland post on that, instead of autoerotic references to John McCain.

  • juniusredivivus

    spob Says:
    Tuesday, June 23, 2009 at 3:21 pm
    One question I do have is the reaction of the Iraqi government and factions therein. What have the Iraqis been saying–perhaps, just perhaps, we could see a Swampland post on that, instead of autoerotic references to John McCain.

    …………………

    It’s a shame you didn’t try asking a serious question sooner, isn’t it? People might actually have respected you, rather than writing you off as a low-quality troll of limited intellect and no honesty. As for the auto-erotic comment, I assure you, no-one except yourself considers McCain to be remotely fantasy material. Now, why not try behaving like an adult and see how much better your life gets on here?

  • 53_3

    juniusredivivus:
    .
    He believes in freedum and libberty.
    .
    Rush Limbaugh told him so…

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks
  • juniusredivivus

    The sad thing is that moonshinepatriot probably thinks of himself as witty. Only in Republikstan….

  • spob

    Yeah, junius, you should talk about being an adult . . . . given your posts in here. If you go upthread, you’ll see I said NOTHING in this thread that deserves anything–I’m only responding.
    .
    As for other threads–please explain why Michelle Obama’s patient dumping is off limits? Hmmmmm. Why is that trollish? Why is asking questions about the politicization of health care decisions under single-payer verboten? Why is quoting the Canadian Supreme Court so wrong? Huh? And while we’re at it, perhaps, just perhaps, you can explain why wondering whether Barack Obama is open to criticism for calling a vicious racially-motivated six-on-one assault a “schoolyard fight” qualifies me as a hater and evil (as has been said about me in here before)? So please, spare me your little advice about being an adult. I am happy to engage in intellectual debate–I am also happy to trade insults. But you have zero business lecturing me about anything. Got it?
    .
    And junius, “onanism” was the word Joe Klein used–perhaps, just perhaps, you ought to read the posts a little more carefully before yapping about my fantasy about McCain.

  • juniusredivivus

    Spob, since you are trying to defend yourself, let’s just review what the subject of the thread was, before you tried to hijack it with references to Michelle Obama. The subject was either Iran or healthcare reform. In neither case is your attempt to troll about Michelle Obama relevant. As for asking real questions about healthcare reform or Iran, it would be nice to see you try it, just as it would be nice to see you making a positive contribution and behaving like an adult, rather than being abusive and playing victim in tedious and predictable alternation. As for your record as a hater, a liar and a closet racist, any neutral person reviewing your wretched record as a poster on here will rapidly conclude that you are a deeply dishonest and unpleasant individual, with a long record of trolling under different names. There is a reason why pirate wench mocks you as she does, and why others on here despise you. Start thinking about why this is, spob, and you might just make some progress towards being a halfway decent human being.

  • apollyon07

    Look guys, it’s undeniable that Obama is coming out tougher on the Iran situation today. However, while I’ve vehemently disagreed with Obama on several issues, but foreign policy is one area where I’ve been pleasantly surprised, and this case is no exception. I mean, is it so bad that he took a deep breath and treaded water on this initially? What happens if he had immediately made a strong, harsh statement about them right after the election farce and then everything turns out okay? Once you make a strong statement towards another country, there is no going back. And guess what, he waited to assess the situation further, see where it went, and now that it’s obviously gotten worse, he has had stronger words about it.

  • Joe Bftsplk

    Without entering the fray directly, let me just say that notwithstanding all the unnecessary inconveniences associated with commenting here, I do appreciate that the commenter’s handle appears at the outset of the comment these days.
    I find this saves me a tremendous amount of time and aggravation by skipping right over the entries of some perpetually useless participants.
    For instance, if some half-brained twerp were to protest and act all defensive and insulted that I just posted this, I won’t even notice. And if the same were to posture magnanimously as if they take all such aspersions in good humor, I’ll completely fail to notice that, too.

  • spob

    Let’s see, POTUS is leading the charge over healthcare reform, and one of his closest advisers and his own wife were involved in something that came very very close to “patient dumping” (I believe “scandal” was the word KT used to describe it–although KT backhandedly absolved Michelle, why I have no idea), and you deem it irrelevant, so therefore I am a “troll” and “abusive” and just a big fat meanie. Spare me. The bottom line is that this healthcare reform will have winners and losers, and some of those losers will not be the insurance cos. etc., they will be real people. But that’s supposed to be ignored, as this is being sold to us on moral grounds. Well, pointing out the utter immorality of what Michelle Obama and David Axelrod teamed up to do seems to me to be fair game. After all, these people are going to run any healthcare system that comes about–and it’s certainly within the bounds of reasonableness to point out that they’re not so squeaky clean. And isn’t the “do as I say, not as I do” charge a fair one? You guys wouldn’t hesitate to point out hypocrisy. Heck, you guys even yap about Limbaugh’s addiction (yeah, that’s really adult).
    .
    As for Iran, the only reason I mentioned Michelle was that someone told me to f myself because of what I did on another thread. Certainly, I get to do that. My posts re: Iran have been completely germane.
    .
    So junius, care to explain why bringing up Barack’s euphemizing a vicious racially-motivated assault is somehow evil? That’s what got all of this started in here.
    .
    Maybe you could explain why quoting the Canadian Supreme Court is so bad?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    KT backhandedly absolved Michelle
    .
    That might have something to do with Michelle Malkin’s reliabilty as a source of information.
    .
    Your faith in her judgement is touching but it also reflect unavoidably on your credibility as well.
    .
    And to repeat, that patient dumping takes place is an argument in favor of the proposed reforms and Michelle Obama is quite uninvolved in the effort except as a peculiar obsession among remarkably incoherent partisans.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    For anyone interested in how actual journalists might approach the issue, here you go:
    .
    http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1122691,CST-NWS-hosp23.article
    .
    Michelle Obama — currently on unpaid leave from her $317,000-a-year job as a vice president of the prestigious hospital — helped create the program, which aims to find neighborhood doctors for low-income people who were flooding the emergency room for basic treatment. Hospital officials say such patients hinder their ability to focus on more critically ill patients in need of specialized care, such as cancer treatment and organ transplants.
    .
    Vile stuff, obviously.

  • spob

    Hey, PD, you clown yourself. MM isn’t the source, the Washington Post is. Try reading once in a while. She quoted WaPo.
    .
    Michelle Obama may not be that involved–she’s trying to pimp some national service nonsense, but Axelrod is. And the bottom line is that she is the President’s wife for Pete’s sake. These people are not trustworthy, and we’re going to hand over healthcare to them. Moreover, once again, the “do as I say, not as I do” charge is time-honored. Let’s say some bozo politician yaps about ethics, is it fair game to bring up his ethical limitations? Yes. So why is this any different? Huh? Oh, that’s right, it’s Saint Michelle. My bad.

  • spob

    PD, talk about lipstick on a pig . . . . Come on. Bobby Rush thought it a scandal, KT thinks it a scandal. You clown yourself.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Ah, deathbypapers,
    .
    I be feelin’ yer pain – I sorely do!
    .
    An’ I be assumin’ yer tears were flowin’ just as free when spongy bottomed out th’ discussion yesterday by heavin’ th’ first FY bomb a’ PD when it were becomin’ obvious spongy had not a leg t’ stand on as far as rational discussion were goin’!
    .
    ‘e be takin a fierce drubbin’ in th’ wake, I’ll not be denyin’ it, bu’ it be bloody well-deserved, by me own lights!
    .
    So, rest assured, death, I’ve enough familiarity wi’ ol’ spongy tha’ all I needs to be seein’ be th’ name – I be not needin’ t’ ever even read ‘is rants a’ all any more in order t’ feel flat comfortable wishin’ ‘im a hearty,
    .
    Spongy – go F yerself!
    .
    An’ feel certain it be th’ appropriate response!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • spob

    PD, you really believe that?

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    An, spongy…well, ye know wha’ I be sayin’ t’ ye!
    .
    YARR!

  • spob

    PW, you taking a break from the fleet? Remember, wench, PD had insulted my kids. That’s gonna get a response. Sorry you didn’t like it.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    spongy…gFy!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    I believe that people presenting at the emergency room rather than going to a doctor is a huge symptom of the need for health care reform. As far as ‘handing healthcare over to them, that’s an interesting phrase but it’s absolutley meaningless when applied to any legislation that’s actually being considered in the real world. Are you suggesting that Axelrod and Michelle Obama are actually going to be put in control of anything in the legislation that’s pending?

  • juniusredivivus

    pirate wench, if spob doesn’t have a leg to stand on, does that make her a … legless troll? It would explain much about the appalling quality of logic and rhetoric that the poor creature produces.

  • stuartzechman

    spob:
    .
    pointing out the utter immorality of what Michelle Obama and David Axelrod teamed up to do seems to me to be fair game
    .
    No, it isn’t. It’s Drudgism. It’s Vince Foster’s murder. It’s “Acorn”. It’s Whitewater. It’s “Where’s his birth certificate??” It’s a distraction. It’s about “character”. It’s about the President’s wife. It’s about innuendo and smear. Nobody cares.
    .
    We have real issues to get to the bottom of, spob, not the “immorality” of politicians’ wives and consultants.
    .
    You write “this is being sold to us on moral grounds“.
    .
    Well, it is and it isn’t.
    .
    It’s really about dealing with the fact that we have the most expensive system in the world –drastically more expensive than even the nearest most expensive system– that produces health outcomes far from commensurate with those expenditures.
    .
    Since those outcomes have to do with the preventable personal tragedies of real people, it’s also a moral question.
    .
    What is not the case is that health care reform is being sold to the American people on grounds having to do with the personal morality of the President’s wife, and so even if we were to concede that the Presiden’ts wife’s, or his daughters’, or his grandmother’s, or his dog’s moral character were somehow questionable, that’s still a non sequitur, spob.
    .
    People with health insurance are literally going bankrupt at an unsustainable rate due to medical expenses, and you want to talk about Michelle Obama’s morality –and then you call other people “dummy”?
    .
    In terms of trollery, I have given you the benefit of the doubt time and again, and I will continue to do so, because when you’re not smearing politicians’ wives, you advance real arguments that must be met in the real world, if liberals are to have any credibility outside of their own twitter friends.
    .
    But this nonsense is stupid and beneath you, spob. It sounds desperate, it sounds like Drudge, and it sounds like you can’t refute real propositions about real problems the country –our country, yours and mine– and our people face.
    .
    it’s certainly within the bounds of reasonableness to point out that they’re not so squeaky clean
    .
    No, it’s not. That’s called an ad hominem argument, and it’s not reasonable –it’s not even really an argument, and we’re not here to argue indefinitely for our own amusement. People who like to argue indefinitely for no good purpose are trolls, spob, and I hope you’ll agree with me that honest discussions about politics and policy need less of them.

  • mrtoads

    the President said: “These accusations are patently false and absurd. They are an obvious attempt to distract people from what is truly taking place..” “This tired strategy .. won’t work anymore..”

    Oh, come now – who’s he trying to fool? This strategy is working perfectly well even today in large parts of the US. Admittedly, it’s being used by the GOP and the primary media outlets, but the leaders of Iran can see that it’s a very practical strategy indeed.

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    But this nonsense is stupid and beneath you, spob.
    ………………………………………………

    The only thing beneath spob is a nematode at this point. And at least the nematode doesn’t play victim the way the troll does.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    A cautionary health care tale adaptation, me hearties:

    Spob were out SUI (Sailin’ Under th’ Influence) in th’ wake o’ drownin’ ‘is sorrows followin’ ‘is latest humiliatin’ drubbin’ by th’ Pirate Wench, when ‘e wrapped ‘is tubby vessel ‘round a reef. ‘E smashed ‘is craft an’ ‘imself t’ bits.
    .
    Fortunate fer ‘im, th’ harbor patrol seen th’ whole disaster an rushed out t’ the rescue. After pullin’ ‘is battered hide fr’m th wreckage, they hauled ‘im off t’ th’ Pierside Infirmary, which were fortunate located ri’ next t’ th’ Pierside Pub, whar spongy’d done ‘is liver some serious damage b’fore settin’ sail tha’ evenin’.
    .
    Th’ staff a’ th’ infirmary were in a fix when spongy were brought in, as he weren’t carryin’ ‘is proof o’ insurance coverage wi’ ‘im.
    .
    Operatin’ on th’ margin fr’m bein’ forced t’ care fer all th’ drunken criminal elements along th’ docks, they needed some real assurance they’d be reimbursed fer th’ care they were providin’.
    .
    Lackin’ any hard evidence o’ coverage, someone came up wi’ th’ bright idea o’ sendin’ next door fer spongy’s bestest buddies, texty an’ hula. Th’ 3 o’ em ha’ always done everythin’ t’gether, so they figured they could be identifyin’ ‘im fer sure.
    .
    They were bringin’ texty in first, bu’ when they were showin’ ‘im into th’ room, ‘e noticed spongy’s face were beat up pret’ bad – lookin’ like rotten hamburger.
    .
    Texty said, “I can’t be tellin’ fr’m ‘is face, me buckos, ye’d best be rollin’ ‘im over.”
    .
    Th’ orderly did so, an’ texty said, “Nope, it be not spongy.”
    .
    Th’ doc thought this be ri’ strange, an’ he were wantin’ t’ be sure, so ‘e had ‘em call hula in.
    .
    Hula took one look an’ said, “’is face be complete ground t’ bits! Roll ‘im over!”
    .
    Th’ orderly obliged ag’in, an’ hula said, “No – it be not spongy.”
    .
    “Be ye sure?” th’ doc inquired, “We bloody need to be knowin’ fer sure!”
    .
    “I be sure as Obama be a socialist!” hula an’ texty replied together, “tha’ be not spongy!”
    .
    Th’ doc asked, “But how can ye be tellin’?”
    .
    Texty said, “Well, spongy had two a$$holes. This mound o’ ground only be havin’ one.”
    .
    “Wha’?” the doc asked, plumb amazed, “’e had two a$$holes?”
    .
    “Tha’ be fer sure,” hula were replyin’.
    .
    “O’ course, we never seen ‘em, ourselves, bu’ whenever we were goin’ anywheres, everyone always be sayin:
    .
    “Thar be spongy wi’ them two a$$holes.”
    .
    YARR!

  • spob

    Yeah, SZ, you’re a real stickler for debate. I don’t see you yapping so much about silly references to Limbaugh, the GOP in general or whatever.
    .
    But maybe we’ll have to disagree. But really, I am not smearing Michelle Obama–she got paid a lot of money to do what she did. And really, do you honestly think that if someone pushes a policy that his or her peccadilloes with respect to what the policy would be are off-limits? If Bush yapped about cronyism, wouldn’t someone be justified in pointing out all the cronyism in his Administration (Gonzales, McClellan, Miers and Hughes)? Or taxes–if Geithner starts yapping about everyone paying their fair share, is it nuts to point out his issues? Come on. The bottom line is that people are being told by these scolds that people are going to have to cut back, accept cuts in their lifestyles etc. etc., but when it was Michelle’s bottom line, that advice went unheeded. And I’m a bad guy for pointing this out? Come now. let’s get serious.

    PD, “them” refers to the Administration–forgive me if I judge his morality on this issue by the company he keeps. Not like you guys have been prudish about Bush!tlerHalliburton.
    .
    And you’re right PD, the presentation at ERs is a problem (caused by EMTALA, btw), but to suppose that UofC was doing this out of the goodness of their hearts and in the best interests of their clientele is a little, shall we say, gulllible. So PD, are you vouching for the Urban Health Initiative. Will any of PD’s fellow travelers do the same?
    .
    ah, junius, presented with argument, you resort to ad hominem. Here’s a clue, SFB, when you do use ad hominem, try to add some argument. For example, I think youre a moron (Ad hominem) who doesn’t read posts before he opens his yap. My support for this is your curious response to my criticism of Klein’s post (had you read Klein’s post, you would have noted his use of the word “onanism”) and its reference to McCain’s autoeroticism. (Argument.)
    .
    You see, it’s really not that hard. Perhaps, genius, you could explain what’s wrong with quoting the Canadian Supreme Court? Come on. If I am so stupid, how come you cannot knock down my arguments? And really, since when is the comment “oh, do as I say, not as I do” not fair commentary. I get that I rhetorically get in your face (e.g., Saint Michelle), but where “wingnut” is fair commentary, the squeamishness seems a bit feighned.
    .
    And perhaps, junius, you could explain your “racism” charge. Huh? Is calling out POTUS for racially-charged comments “racist”? Is being opposed to race-preferences or calling out a minority judge for trying to bury a case “racist”?.

    But yeah, my argument skills are “appalling”. Did you get dropped on your head as a kid, or are you just another liberal twerp who has drunk too much Kool-Aid.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    So PD, are you vouching for the Urban Health Initiative….
    .
    No. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t trying to address a real need. You and your allies seem to be more interested in assuring that the urban poor continue to have no choice but to present to emergency rooms. I already know that you think they all deserve to be sick.
    .
    God forbid any tax dollars go toward anything but burying the corpses.

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Junius, it seems you’ve done your bit to make the world safe for democracy. Two A$$holes is now getting all enraged because you pointed out her transparent dishonesty. Funny, how a supposed legal genius can’t spell worth a damn, isn’t it? But maybe, just maybe Two A$$holes was telling porkies – again! I missed the bit where you called Two A$$holes a moron, but even Two A$$holes should know that calling a moron a moron is not ad hominem (although in this case it is ad trollem), but a simple statement of fact. Surely a lawyer should know what a statement of fact is? But I forgot, we only know Two A$$holes is a lawyer because Two A$$holes told us so. Unreliable narrator syndrome, I fancy.

  • spob

    by the way, SZ, i raised a ton of points about the politicization of health care decisions and people’s relative moral claims to care. No one seemed to be interested in discussing–which is fine. But please spare me the piousness. People in here really aren;t that interested in debate. You may be, but most aren’t.
    .
    By the way, SZ, you yourself have succumbed to the flame stuff too. I believe that the Admin was justified in waterboarding. You unleashed some serious vituperation over that one. Don’t worry, i’m not offended.
    .
    And PW, that was a long post–isnt the Fleet getting a little restless? Or are u having an outbreak?

  • spob

    Gotcha, PD, you were defending Michelle. And now you won’t defend the policy she pushed. Which is it?
    .
    pwned.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    you were defending Michelle
    Pointing out that she’s irrelevant to the discussion is not defending her. Claiming that it is on the other hand is just out and out lying. But then again, dishonesty and distraction are the only tools you seem to actually know how to use.

  • stuartzechman

    …do you honestly think that if someone pushes a policy that his or her peccadilloes with respect to what the policy would be are off-limits?
    .
    No, but that’s not the point. The point is for people to understand what the objective facts about the policy are, and to make a rational determination about it on its merits, not the merits of the people who say they like it or don’t like it. It’s not an off-limits discussion (it happens every day on Hardball), it’s just a stupid discussion that reveals nothing about the policy.
    .
    If Bush yapped about cronyism, wouldn’t someone be justified in pointing out all the cronyism in his Administration (Gonzales, McClellan, Miers and Hughes)?
    .
    Of course, but that wouldn’t get us anywhere either. The idea isn’t to yap pointlessly about things, it’s to figure out what kind of anti-cronyism policies would work, and what the unintended consequences would probably be.
    .
    Or taxes–if Geithner starts yapping about everyone paying their fair share, is it nuts to point out his issues? Come on.
    .
    Actually, yes. It is nuts to talk about this guys f*cking taxes when the question should be “How will Geithner’s policies differ from Paulson’s, and will they be enough to put the country on a sustainable path?” Anything other than that kind of discussion –given the magnitude of the financial problems we face– is nuts, although of course that doesn’t stop cable tv talk shows from vomiting irrelevant drivel every hour (or the networks every Sunday).
    .
    The bottom line is that people are being told by these scolds that people are going to have to cut back, accept cuts in their lifestyles etc. etc.,
    .
    That’s you talking, not them. These scolds are telling people that they won’t have to worry so much about bankruptcy from medical bills, and that alleviating these sorts of concerns for tens of millions of Americans who pay their bills on time every month is worth the up front costs of the program. That argument is obviously debatable, but it’s worth having, while this one…
    .
    but when it was Michelle’s bottom line, that advice went unheeded.
    .
    …is not.
    .
    And I’m a bad guy for pointing this out? Come now. let’s get serious.
    .
    No, you’re not a bad guy, you’re just hijacking multiple threads by attacking Michelle Obama’s character, even though that has little or nothing to do with what kind of health care system Americans have, should have, expect to have or will have. Some people will be stupid, or be unable to control themselves, or will be excited to argue, and will use this opening shot of yours to heap invective on you, thus ruining the opportunity for intelligent debate.
    .
    When people do that on purpose to threads, i.e. get people riled up into pointless arguments about nothing, they’re called “trolls”, spob, not “bad people”.
    .
    When people do it on purpose to threads because they have no real solutions for our country’s problems, and their arguments have been intelligently refuted time and again by multiple sincere, concerned individuals , they’re called “losers”, spob, not “bad people”.
    .
    This isn’t Travelgate, spob. Sick people are f*cking being handed bills that mean their houses, savings and kids’ college educations are being destroyed overnight. Treat the subject with the gravity it deserves, because these are your fellow Americans we’re talking about, not the President’s wife.

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Which A$$hole is spob talking out of now? The generic-troll hole or the victim-troll hole?

  • stuartzechman

    spob:
    .
    By the way, SZ, you yourself have succumbed to the flame stuff too.
    .
    Because, unlike Christ, I am not perfect. That doesn’t mean I don’t go to church, and try to be better than I am.
    .
    More “what a hypocrite” stuff that’s beneath you, spob…
    .
    OK, have the last word now. I’ve probably said as much as can be said from my side. Tell me how wrong I am, and how much you’re really contributing to the place. Go for it.

  • hellslittlestangel

    If it’s not too late to be relevant:

    Isn’t “talks tough” a bit oxymoronic? Or maybe just moronic. Seems to be like Obama is talking thoughtfully and intelligently (possibly a deliberate attempt to freeze the Republicans out of the conversation — that bastard!).

  • anchovy1

    Guess he is engaging in “dangerous political posturing” like McCain…..eh Joel?

  • Friar Tuck

    This isn’t Travelgate, spob. Sick people are f*cking being handed bills that mean their houses, savings and kids’ college educations are being destroyed overnight. Treat the subject with the gravity it deserves, because these are your fellow Americans we’re talking about, not the President’s wife.
    .
    Hear, hear.

  • Cliff

    JNS – perhaps you could have mentioned that Obama also spoke on health care and energy. Not a big deal, except it’s two thirds of his speech.

  • Cliff

    By the way, SZ, you yourself have succumbed to the flame stuff too.
    .
    Because, unlike Christ, I am not perfect. That doesn’t mean I don’t go to church, and try to be better than I am.
    .
    I don’t know, I kind of had the impression Jesus would be upset about torturing innocent people.
    .
    Friar Tuck, can we get a reading on this?

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Cliff, spob belongs to The Church of Jesus Neocon. It makes a big difference.

  • bethnva

    Um, Time/Swampland: spob is the quintessential troll, hijacking a thread. 13 out of 50 posts (just page 1–that’s over a quarter of the comments) spanning a period of 4 hours. Should be banned–isn’t there some rule??

  • Cliff

    basilbrush – the point isn’t spob’s stance on it, the point is I feel it’s acceptable for SZ to get worked up about the issue. No need for guilt there.

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Cliff, I assure you, Zechman doesn’t do guilt. That’s one thing that the comments he makes should have taught you.

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    I don’t know, juniusredivivus. I read both pages and thought the moonshine post cut through the crap to get to the heart of the matter. In fact, I’d like to see Obama call out more people like this. Why give these slime any pretense of civility?

    Overall, maybe it’s my technological background, but I like how Obama makes fact-based decisions, rather than relying on blind ideology.

  • Friar Tuck

    I kind of had the impression Jesus would be upset about torturing innocent people.
    .
    Absof!ckinglutely. “Let the one who has ears to hear, hear this!”

  • 53_3

    Wow. JC Chirst in a breadbasket. What the hell happened?
    .
    What is all this mess in here? Tables overturned, broken glass, beer all over the place, and so many bullet holes in the new Rush Limbaugh dart board I gave the owner to put up that I don’t even recognize it!
    .
    spob’s in here, drunker ‘n two skunks, crying into the sawdust on the floor, naked as a bluejay in fetal position, with sharkbites and bruises and two arsile orifaces! Guess those must be his clothes outside…
    .
    And why’s he wearing a patient id band from Rusty’s Stormfront Library/Medical Clinic and Viper Vivarium next door? Cheap snakes and Nazi literature, but this? Jeezuzzz…
    .
    Hmmm. Everybody else is on the other side of the room, talking sense at the other tables, waving and passing that rum around that Pirate Wench supplied, it seems.
    .
    Hey! Pirate wench! How’s sacred’s rum?

  • jcapan

    What Beth said (I did a similar count on a post yesterday: “Of the 143 comments thus far, 39 were made by Spob-a-lot. Further, he’s been referenced (in a variety of ways) 29 times”
    ~
    The #s increased during the time I wrote that lengthy comment up!
    ~
    Stop the Spobosity!!! Though I don’t think he should be banned or that he’s even necessarily a troll. I simply think engaging him cheapens the debate and distracts far too many from the real battle we’re facing. But I’m just a moralizing leftist.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    53 –
    .
    Music may be soothin’ th’ savage beast, bu’ it be takin’ liberal amounts o’ th’ sacred rum t’ be soothin’ th’ savage pirate crew!
    .
    It be fine, matey, just bloody fine, now!
    .
    Arrgh!!!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    jcapan –
    .
    I be thinkin’ th’ worst be over fer now, lad – sometimes it be necessary t’ be havin’ a brutal slap-down o’ a curr t’ be restorin’ order t’ th’ crew. Sad t’ say, it had t’ be done.
    .
    Let ‘im whimper an’ lick ‘is wounds in th’ corner…I be fair sure ‘e’ll be back another day, an’ I be sure we’ll all be aimin’ t’ ignore ‘im.
    .
    Arrgh!

  • Cliff

    Cliff, I assure you, Zechman doesn’t do guilt.
    .
    Whatever you want to call it, he needn’t apologize for getting pissed off at a torture-supporter.

  • juniusredivivus

    Cliff, who exactly suggested that he should? Or are you just getting gratuitously outraged on his behalf?

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