In the Arena

About Last Night

I’ve been receiving a steady stream of favorable emails from Iranian-Americans regarding my appearance on Larry King last night. They’re delighted that I made it clear that Iran is different from the other countries in the region–better educated, more sophisticated, with far greater rights for women (although not nearly enough). And they also appreciated the fact that when King asked me what John McCain should do right now, I said, “Be quiet.”

The Washington Post has a piece today about the efforts of some Republicans to make hay out of the situation in Iran. McCain, who spent the entire 2008 election making misleading statements about the nature of the Iranian government (I wonder if he still thinks Ahmadinejad is more powerful than the Supreme Leader), has been at the forefront of this. It is very unseemly. I have yet to hear what possible good it would do for the President of the United States to encourage the protesters, except to give the Iranian regime a better excuse for killing more of them. McCain’s bleatings are either for domestic political consumption or self-satisfaction, a form of hip-shooting onanism that demonstrates why he would have been a foreign policy disaster had he been elected.

To put it as simply as possible, McCain–and his cohorts–are trying to score political points against the President in the midst of an international crisis. It is the sort of behavior that Republicans routinely call “unpatriotic” when Democrats are doing it. I would never question John McCain’s patriotism, no matter how misguided his sense of the country’s best interests sometimes seems. His behavior has nothing to do with love of country; it has everything to do with love of self.

Again, the crucial fact about the protesters is this: they may hate the Khamenei-Ahmadinejad regime–who wouldn’t?–but that doesn’t make them particular fans of the United States. I have yet to meet an Iranian who does not believe that the United States gave poison gas to Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war, gas which injured thousands upon thousands of Iranian men, who still live, incapacitated, in the shadows of that society. (Indeed, the attention Ahmadinejad has paid to the Iran-Iraq war veterans and their families is a major source of his extensive support among the Iranian working class.)

The protesters admire our freedom, but they are appalled–and insulted–by our neocolonialist condescension over the past 50 years. The reformers, and even some conservatives, consider Ahmadinejad the George W. Bush of Iran–a crude, unsophisticated demagogue, who puts a strong Potemkin face to the world without very much knowledge of what the rest of the world is about. This was an anology that came up in interview after interview, with reformers and conservatives alike.

Certainly, Bush the Younger, McCain and the rest of that crowd have absolutely no idea who the Iranian people are. The are not Hungarians in 1956. They do not believe they live in an Evil Empire. They still support their revolution. They shout “Allahu Akbar” in the streets, which was the rallying cry of 1979. They are proud of their nuclear program, even if many have doubts about the efficacy of weaponizing the enriched uraniam that is being produced. They want greater freedom, to be sure. And they believe that the Khamenei-Ahmadinejad forces–and the militarized regime they have empowered, the millions of basiji and revolutionary guards–is a profound perversion of that revolution. They are right. They deserve our prayers and support. But they don’t need grandstanding from an American President, and they certainly don’t need histrionics from blustery old John McCain.

Update: The wingnuts over at National Review think I’d oppose John McCain’s tribute to the martyred Neda on the floor of the Senate. This, of course, is bull pucky. McCain and anyone else can publicly mourn this terrible act of brutality. What is objectionable about McCain’s statements is not his support for the protesters, but his untoward belief that the President should be more outspoken and bellicose. Neda’s death–and the beatings of the other protesters and journalists, some of which I witnessed–should disgust all of us, should disgust the world. The posturing of neoconservative extremists, looking to score political points, is also disgusting, if decidedly more trivial.

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  • gysgt213

    Joe-Thanks for saving us from the triva today.
    .
    I think another reason why John McCain and the usual supects are acting the way they are is because there really is no down side for them. If Obama does not give involved and things turn out wrong they can then go around saying how wrong Obama was. If Obama does get involved and things go wrong then they can say how wrong Obama was.
    .
    They will still be invited on the talking heads shows and treated as if they are serious elders that know what they are talking about. Flying right in the face of ample evidence that they do not. The paid performers on these shows will not challenge their world view because they don’t have the ability to do that. John and his staff and supporters know this and its very apparent because they do it without any fear whatsoever of being called on it.

  • pneogy

    “…a form of hip-shooting onanism that demonstrates why he would have been a foreign policy disaster had he been elected.”
    -
    I’ll have to remember that!

  • 53_3

    John McCain is blind to the fact that the previous administration had snuffed the previous efforts for reform.
    .
    As experienced as he claims to be, McCain doesn’t seem to want to entertain the possibility that Khamenei would like nothing more than an excuse to snuff the movement – and quickly.
    .
    The bad news if it doesn’t succeed:
    .
    Khamenei has now gone on record as holding the same views on foreign and domestic policy as Ahmadinejad. Netanyahu’s hand will be stronger because of it.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Another similarity between Ahmedinijad and Bush: just as Karl Rove so loved bin Laden that he showed up in every GOP ad for about 5 years, Ahmedinijad’s best allies in Iranian domestic politics are Bush and McCain.
    -
    A fine post. Looking forward to reading it in the print version.

  • Jim, Foolish Literalist

    McCain’s bleatings are either for domestic political consumption or self-satisfaction, a form of hip-shooting onanism that demonstrates why he would have been a foreign policy disaster had he been elected.
    **
    The latter, and especially the last. McCain’s combination of personal arrogance, political sentimentality and bombast incarnates some of the worst elements of the American Right since Reagan. These really are people who believe that Reagan won the cold war single-handedly, with a steely paternal glare.
    **
    I can’t imagine “Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran” didn’t get a lot of play in the country concerned, nor the constant wails of the Boltons, Kristols and Gaffneys that bombing Tehran is the foreign policy version of tax cuts: The solution to every problem.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Avast –

    Wha’ Gunny said!
    .
    YARR!

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Joe Klein
    .
    You said this.
    .

    It is the sort of behavior that Republicans routinely call “unpatriotic” when Democrats are doing it.I would never question John McCain’s patriotism, no matter how misguided his sense of the country’s best interests sometimes seems. His behavior has nothing to do with love of country; it has everything to do with love of self.

    .
    I want to make a few observations.
    .
    1. If you realize that Republican pull the unpatriotic smear out of their back pocket at the drop of a dime then I hope that means the next time you hear it from there whether its a week, month year or decade from now you will LOUDLY call bullsh*t.
    .
    2. What does it mean when a Senator acts out of love of self rather than love of country. To me it sounds like you just called McCain out for acting unpatriotically but just didn’t want to say the word. And I have a problem with that.
    .
    See the problem that I have with it is that he really IS acting unpatriotically. He is ONLY trying to score political points and you yourself acknowledge that. But you try to set up this false equivalence of how Republicans treated Dems who spoke truth to power and what McCain is doing now. See the Dems who were smeared by Republicans for questioning Bush before we went to war in Iraq and who denounced the torture we were doing in GITMO and who spoke out against wireless wiretapping really WERE speaking out in the country’s best interest. And they WERE speaking truth to power. And yet the media time and again allowed the Republicans to tar and feather them with the “unpatriotic” smear when what they were doing was the most patriotic thing possible.
    .
    On the other hand McCain and his cohorts know good and damn well that all of the things they are attacking Pres Obama is bullsh*t. Thats why when the few responsible journalists out there ask them what they want Pres Obama to say instead McCain nor the rest of them can’t give a good response. And again I am preaching to the choir here because you have already acknowledged its all politics with them.
    .
    So why can’t you call it what it is Joe? Why can’t you bring yourself to say he is acting unpatriotically when you know that to be the case? I guess yet again IOKIYAR.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Thanks for providing a needed dose of reality. The plot-line in the NeoCon comic-book world was getting a little shopworn.
    .
    What I find most appalling is the callous disregard for the ability for the protesters to decide for themselves just how far they wish to push things. As you put it:I have yet to hear what possible good it would do for the President of the United States to encourage the protesters, except to give the Iranian regime a better excuse for killing more of them.
    .
    Their lives are not ours to mess with.
    .
    If course the easy shot is to point out that the same people who’s lives are so important to us now that we actually learning their names and their stories would be likely vistims of any US or Israeli military strikes. Bombs and cruise missles are notoriously oblivious to the political inclinations of anybody downrange.
    .
    Of course your willingness to go and report from the scene is just the antidote we need to prevent the gross oversimplification in either direction.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    McCain and his cohorts know good and damn well that all of the things they are attacking Pres Obama is bullsh*t. Thats why when the few responsible journalists out there ask them what they want Pres Obama to say instead McCain nor the rest of them can’t give a good response.
    -
    Don’t see how we can rule out the “stupid” hypothesis here, sg, and embrace the “malevolent” one.
    -
    I think McCain really believes that if he were president and he talked tough enough, Iran would fall, terrorism would cease, the budget would balance, and the Cardinals would’ve been able to hold on against the Steelers. That’s what today’s conservatism is all about: 100% sneering style, 0% substance. Fortunately, their number is negligible and they are stupid.

  • Ivy_B

    Excellent post, Joe. Missed you on King, but heard you on Talk of the Nation – also very good. Thanks for getting the message out.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Elvis
    .
    Its not that I am ruling out the stupid hypothesis Elvis. There is no doubt in my mind that McCain would have been a VERY belligerent President. But he isn’t a fool and the proof of the fact that he is full of sh*t is that every time someone asks him or the rest of his neocon bretheren what Pres Obama should have said in their opinion they just start stuttering and uhmming and ahhing. Its all for politics and the MSM aids and abets them by giving them a megaphone every single day. As Bill Maher said the other night, no matter how wrong these NeoCon ass holes are they always get air time where as you can’t find a true blue dyed in the wool liberal from Congress like Dennis Kucinich nor in the pundit world like Chomsky on Tee Vee EVER.

  • middlegirl

    What pleasantly surprises me is the growing list of conservative commentators including George Will,Scarborough, Noonan and Buchanan who also believe that McCain should STFU. Good times.

    On the downside,the WaPo is like a neo-con pep rally with Fred Hiatt as their cheerleading coach. Hopefully, these dinosaurs will soon be extinct. Thanks for your good work and wise words, Joe.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    PD –
    .
    “If course the easy shot is to point out that the same people who’s lives are so important to us now that we actually learning their names and their stories would be likely vistims of any US or Israeli military strikes. Bombs and cruise missles are notoriously oblivious to the political inclinations of anybody downrange.”
    .
    I be thinkin’ ye be hittin’ th’ nail ri’ on th’ head thar, laddie – an’ I be thinkin’, a wee bit, tha’ th’ Republicans a-spoutin’ this swill may be actual WANTIN’ th’ protests t’ be snuffed out b’fore we become too attached t’ those who suddenly be appearin’ human an’ a lot more like us. We may become hesitant t’ bomb ‘em off th’ face o’ th’ earth – fer their own good, o’ course!
    .
    Why any responsible news organization be payin’ these scum-suckers any attention whatsoever be beyond me…Oh wait, laddie…never mind!
    .
    Spongy, go F yerself!
    .
    Yarr.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Well I agree with that last sentence. America would be a better country with more Noam Chomsky and less McCain/Gingrich/Kristol/Angry White Guy X on TV. (I’m pretty sure I agree with almost nothing Chomsky says, but it’d at least be an interesting perspective. Throw Larison on TV, too).
    -
    It’s not all that important a difference between our positions, b/c we agree that the man is a catastrophe, but I don’t see why McCain’s go-to move for responding to intelligent questions, “stuttering and uhmming and ahhing,” means that “he isn’t a fool.”

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Elvis
    .
    You are absolutely right. We do agree that the man is a fool. Look back at my first sentence in my response to you. I am not ruling out stupidity as a factor, I just think political gamesmanship is the overarching motivation this time. Again you and I are pretty much on the same page about him. But my problem is saying its just who he is really shields him from the criticism of being unpatriotic which I honestly believe he has been with this and many other attacks since Pres Obama took office.

  • queencersei

    “To put it as simply as possible, McCain–and his cohorts–are trying to score political points against the President in the midst of an international crisis. It is the sort of behavior that Republicans routinely call “unpatriotic” when Democrats are doing it.”
    Republicans are also ignoring the fact that the U.S. military is a wee bit tied up at the moment. Even if Obama did come out and talk harshly, he doesn’t have much of a stick to back it up with at the moment. Plus I’m not seeing that the American public has any real interest to involve itself in Iran’s domestic issues.

  • gysgt213

    Via Thinkprogress. Here is John Bolton hitting President Obama’s response to the Iranian election crisis.
    .
    BOLTON: Well, it’s not at all what they want, and you know what’s worst of all about this, looking at President Obama, is not only that he’s being timid, he’s being disingenuous. The real reason that he won’t speak out has nothing to do with this argument that we don’t want to meddle. [...]
    .
    [Obama] is abandoning the people in the streets and not providing any possibility of concrete assistance to them.
    .
    Hannity then asked Bolton whether he agreed with Col. Ralph Peters’s recent New York Post op-ed, in which he wrote that Obama’s “silence” is “a blank check for the current regime.” Bolton surprisingly backtracked and seemed to contradict his statements from a few moments earlier.

    BOLTON: Well, I think it’s mostly right except I would say this. Because including during the Bush administration we did not prepare adequately for this potential revolutionary moment, we’re not really in a position now to offer much concrete assistance.
    .
    And I don’t want America to be in a position where we urge people in the streets and then watch them die. I’d rather be a little bit prudent and prepare for the long-term where we really can provide concrete assistance.
    .

    .
    http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/23/bolton-obama-iran/

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Queen…
    .
    Wha’ th’ American people be havin’ an interest in be o’ no concern t’ Republicans (nor th’ Democrats, neither!). See “Health Care Reform” ;) .
    Spongy, go F yerself!
    .
    Yarr!

  • mjshep

    McCain proves the old comedian Ed Wynn’s point:

    “There’s no fool like an old fool.”

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Gunny –
    .
    “[Obama] is abandoning the people in the streets and not providing any possibility of concrete assistance to them.”
    .
    “we’re not really in a position now to offer much concrete assistance.”
    .
    “I don’t want America to be in a position where we urge people in the streets and then watch them die. I’d rather be a little bit prudent and prepare for the long-term where we really can provide concrete assistance.”
    .
    WTF? No one called ‘im on this?
    .
    Oh, wait – it be FOX – probably made perfect sense t’ ‘em.
    .
    Spongy, go F yerself!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    Fortunately, their number is negligible and they are stupid. Be that as it may, why do the MSM still cater to them, like lapdogs? Especially if the MSM is “liberal”? The vocal minority seems to dictate the agenda.

    SG: excellent points, sir.

    Finally, who gives a fudge what McCain says? If he had something to offer, he’d be president, now. Why is anyone listening to that self-inflated, soldier-abandoning, politics-before-patriotism blowhard?

  • pintortwo

    According to former CIA officer, Philip Giraldi, the neocons had a plan to protect “the fundamental human rights” of people like Neda and support her fellow “brave Iranians”:
    .
    .
    In Washington it is hardly a secret that the same people in and around the administration who brought you Iraq are preparing to do the same for Iran. The Pentagon, acting under instructions from Vice President Dick Cheney’s office, has tasked the United States Strategic Command (STRATCOM) with drawing up a contingency plan to be employed in response to another 9/11-type terrorist attack on the United States. The plan includes a large-scale air assault on Iran employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons. Within Iran there are more than 450 major strategic targets, including numerous suspected nuclear-weapons-program development sites. Many of the targets are hardened or are deep underground and could not be taken out by conventional weapons, hence the nuclear option. As in the case of Iraq, the response is not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States. Several senior Air Force officers involved in the planning are reportedly appalled at the implications of what they are doing—that Iran is being set up for an unprovoked nuclear attack—but no one is prepared to damage his career by posing any objections.
    .

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    pintortwo: The courage of these “senior AF officers” matches that of the MSM. In their inability to call a spade a spade – a la SG’s point, above, regarding Joe not calling McCain out for his unpatriotic behavior – they’re basically hiding from the consequences.

  • Art Pepper

    McCain–and his cohorts–are trying to score political points against the President in the midst of an international crisis.
    .
    Yes! Thank you!
    .
    Of course your criticism of McCain can only be motivated by anti-semistism. /snark

  • bitterpill8

    Agree with Middlegirl. Surprising bout of sanity on Morning Joe (lately Joke) and from Noonan. But we still live in a parallel universe: McCain can peddle as much piffle as he wants because David Gregory and his counterparts on Face the Nation and This Weak have a welcome sign out for the Senator.
    Thanks, Joe, for responding to the wingnuttery that calls itself the National Review.

  • spob

    Hey pirate wench, the go “f” yerself stuff is a little old. The bottom line is that PD insulted my kids–and that’s the response I am going to give every time. If you think that my response was not justified, fine, then say so. Certainly, you think his comment was out of line.
    .
    In any event, enjoy: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/06/023878.php

  • 53_3

    hey spob:
    .
    “Hey pirate wench, the go “f” yerself stuff is a little old.”
    .
    I don’t think it’s old. As a matter of fact, I like that little decoration. Appropriate, you know, sort of like an emoticon, just more specific.
    .
    It would be more interesting to see pirate wench create a little graphic.
    .
    Perhaps a yellow smiley face with your penile member firmly inserted…

  • 53_3

    spob:
    .
    Think of it as a “political problem”…

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    I’d go with the smiley face flashing a middle finger. Maybe a “Hey, Spob!” text background.

  • 53_3

    How about both heads smiling?

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Now ye be startin t’ be knowin’ how yer own posts be feelin’ th’ the rest o’ us, matey!
    .
    Spongy – go F yerself!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Alri’ me hearties, I no be possessin’ th’ skills t’ neither create a graphic, nor t’ be exposin’ spongy’s wee, wee little penile projection. I also be lackin’ any interest in th’ latter, fer th’ record!
    .
    Spongy – go F yerself!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Tho – on a bit more thinkin’ if one o’ ye good shipmates be providin’ me wi’ a good graphic, I be slap happy t’ be includin’ it! Just be tellin me how t’ appropriate an’ incorporate…
    .
    Spongy – go F yerself!
    .
    YARR!

  • spob

    53_3, it would have to be a big graphic.

    Perhaps just perhaps you can shed your penchant for trying to figure out what Obama had for dinner last nite with your taste buds and exercise the brain. I know it’s hard and I know you enjoy showing your devotion to the Saint. After all, for a single-payer guy like yourself, it must be difficult to witness Apostle David’s heresy and Saint Michelle’s slip, but you’ve soldiered on, showing your devotion to Him, even defending that heresy as irrelevant and criticizing me for daring to bring it up. But now, Iranian protesters are actually dying, and while Obama is not encouraging them (of course, it’s unlikely any of these sophisticated Iranians in the street actually think that America would actually do anything tangible to help them win, no matter what is said by whom), Obama is also giving unmistakable signals that the regime can basically do what it wants and he will be there to shake their hands. (I’m wondering, do you bow to the “Supreme Leader”?) That’s not remaining neutral, that’s giving a free hand, or at least it’s not making them worry about how the US is going to respond if they are really brutal.
    .
    I wonder how the budding democracy in Iraq is affecting events in Iran. Could it be that some Iranians are seeing that the ballot box actually means something in their next door neighbor–hmmmmm.
    .
    And on top of that, these guys are rubbing Barack’s nose in it. They’ve accused the US of meddling anyway.

  • http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=23034 Balloon Juice » Blog Archive » But that he loved himself more

    [...] Joe Klein on president McCain (via Steve Benen): [...]

  • spob

    Wow, PW has descended into small d!ck jokes. I guess youre the expert on size since so many of them have been inside you.

  • 53_3

    spob:
    .
    Rush Limbaugh is the saint. Why do you suppose he calls people like you “dittoheads”? Now, I happen to like Obama and his policies, but I don’t think it is going to be that hard for you to find some posts where I’ve been harshly critical, particularly in the health care reform field.
    .
    So maybe, what you need to do is to drop the rhetoric, which is positively worthless, and is only an appeal to your peers recreational anger and hatred.
    .
    As a quick aside, our country should never have been in the business of “building democracy”. We have problems here at home, and neither Iraq, nor Iran, are part of the United States.
    .
    That’s a fact that you must acknowledge.
    .
    And, now to the meat that is surrounded by all your ridiculous fluff:
    .
    What should the US do should they become brutal? Attack them?

  • 53_3

    And spob, just FYI, I think having the Obamas would be good neighbors. She seems to be a very nice lady and also very intelligent. Evil?
    .
    I see far more evil in you, as much hate as you spew…

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Spongy – go F yerself!
    .
    Arrgh.

  • 53_3

    “53_3, it would have to be a big graphic.”
    .
    Wow! I’m impressed!
    .
    I have one question:
    .
    Just which head is your brain in?

  • spob

    no need to attack them, although if we have evidence of weps coming across the border into Iraq to kill US soldiers, we ought to make a martyr out of some al-Qods guys. Certainly, we don’t have to send signals that they have a free hand, which is what Obama is doing now–although his latest speech on the subject isn’t awful.
    .
    South Korea, Japan, Germany give prove your comment wrong.

  • joyousmn

    spongy, after what you did to yesterday’s thread on health care I’m firmly in the camp with Pirate Wench.

    Did you even watch that woman testify?

    Oh, that’s right, nothing bad like that could ever happen to you and yours…which was I think, PD’s point. But you chose to ignore the point and go for the talking point.

    Sorta reminds me of JohnnyMac. The subject of this thread. Which reminds me…I should not be feeding trolls.

    Great post, Joe Klein.

  • textee

    Leftist loon Klein: “I’ve been receiving a steady stream of favorable emails from Iranian [anti]-Americans regarding my appearance on Larry King last night.”

    -

    Like 99.9999% of America, I didn’t see Larry King last night, but was CNN dingbat Christiane Amanpour one of those Iranian anti-Americans who sent her love to Klein?

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Spongy an’ texty – go F yerselves!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • spob

    After what I did to yesterday’s thread? What did I do? Bring up Saint Michelle and Apostle Dave? Surely you have some views on the “Urban Health Initiative” . . . . Or just asking about what would happen if we had single-payer (political competition over health resources). Nowhere have I ever said that people who are in your situation should just be screwed, nowhere. Nor have I defended, in the slightest, the illegal actions of these insurance carriers. But I’ll ask you–EMTALA forces hospitals to care for emergency room patients, whether they can pay or not. That necessarily crowds out charity cases–does that bother you when some drunk can wrap his car around a tree and get thousands and thousands of dollars worth of free medical care (I am not saying I disagree with EMTALA, just that it has effects.) Or what about illegal aliens in your state? How much free medical care do they get? Do you feel your husband’s case more deserving? (Please note that there will always be prioritization of healthcare.) I don’t really mean to get personal, but when you tell me to f myself, I can take some liberty.
    .
    And 53_3, I didnt put lipstick on the pig known as the “Urban Health Initiative”. So why am I more evil? Just for blog posts? Get a grip, dude. And as for Michelle’s intelligence, hmmmmm, refresh my memory, did she pass the bar the first time around?

  • 53_3

    “…we ought to make a martyr out of some al-Qods guys.”
    .
    So how would that help? What do you think the Iranian government would do in response to their own people. You seem to be relentlessly blind to the fact that they are looking for excuses to snuff the movement.
    .
    And the simple fact is, we are not going to war with Iran. It would be stupid, as it would take between 3 and 5 million soldiers, it would economically disrupt the already bad world economy.
    .
    Let’s not mention that we don’t have the resources to waste our time with endless wars with only an ideological driver. Again, Iran and Iraq are not part of the United States.
    .
    “South Korea, Japan, Germany give prove your comment wrong.”
    .
    Did you notice something different about these countries? We did not initiate a war in order to “export democracy” there. Ever hear of WWII? The Korean War?
    .
    Those two wars occurred for other reasons that had nothing to do with democracy.
    .
    Their governments are a legacy of our occupation policies at that time!
    .
    I emphasize the above for good reason…

  • gwbc

    I am happy to see that Peggy Noonan and George Will share your opinion of John McCain’s irresponsible comments regarding the situation in Iran.. It is disturbing to see the fawning he receives from most people in the media. He obviously has learned nothing from the disasters of the Bush/Cheney years .; Of course, what can you expect from a man that chose Sarah Palin as his running mate. We know that John McCain graduated 5th from the bottom of his class. We have never been shown the scholastic record of Mrs. Palin. We do know she knows nothing about the constitution , nor about Africa. I am not sure what she does know about except how to exploit her children and accuse people of things they never did or said. Perhaps she is not that different from John McCain, he just has a better PR team

  • spob

    53_3, the Iranian government has helped the killing of US soldiers in Iraq. I know that doesn’t matter to a patriot like you, but on general principles, my view of the world is that if you kill our guys, we repay the favor.

  • spob

    gwbc, and Barack gets his history from Andrew Sullivan and didn’t know that the Soviets liberated Auschwitz . . . .

  • potfry

    I’ve been receiving a steady stream of emails that say you’re still a mealy-mouthed, nuance-infatuated doofus. Swear to God.

  • spob
  • http://www.ghostnote.com Cookie Puss

    McCain is patriotic. He is patriotic about war.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Spongy – why don’t ye go F yerself!
    .
    Arrgh.

  • 53_3

    “After what I did to yesterday’s thread? What did I do? Bring up Saint Michelle and Apostle Dave? Surely you have some views on the “Urban Health Initiative” . . . . Or just asking about what would happen if we had single-payer (political competition over health resources). Nowhere have I ever said that people who are in your situation should just be screwed, nowhere. Nor have I defended, in the slightest, the illegal actions of these insurance carriers.”
    .
    Rhetoric, all above. Set aside as pointless.
    .
    But I’ll ask you–EMTALA forces hospitals to care for emergency room patients, whether they can pay or not.
    .
    I care about my fellow Americans, unlike you, many of whom cannot afford health insurance through no fault of their own.
    .
    “That necessarily crowds out charity cases”
    .
    Actually, the current system crowds out an enormous number of those Americans I just referred to above. The difference is that you could care less about them, and I consider them Americans – and are deserving of health care. This is the slot those 52 million uninsured belong in, spob. Oversight on your part?
    .
    “–does that bother you when some drunk can wrap his car around a tree and get thousands and thousands of dollars worth of free medical care (I am not saying I disagree with EMTALA, just that it has effects.)”
    .
    First, who would decide whether to let this person live or die? You? One of your rw politician peers? Rush Limbaugh? I thought we had a justice system to handle the drunk driving issue – another oversight on your part?
    .
    Second, this is one of those “political problems” you spoke of yesterday. Something that is unlikely to have any impact on the real issues (there aren’t armies of drunk drivers out there, you know…) other than to provide you yet another point to attach your hate and anger.
    .
    “Or what about illegal aliens in your state? How much free medical care do they get?”
    .
    Americans would no longer have to shop medical insurance as well as a job, which would level the playing field when seeking “those jobs no Americans will do”. Americans citizens would benefit because they would already have access to medical care.
    .
    “Do you feel your husband’s case more deserving? (Please note that there will always be prioritization of healthcare.) I don’t really mean to get personal, but when you tell me to f myself, I can take some liberty.”
    .
    I prefer to let you kick your own arse. It’s much more enjoyable.

    “And 53_3, I didnt put lipstick on the pig known as the “Urban Health Initiative”.”
    .
    “So why am I more evil? Just for blog posts? Get a grip, dude.”
    .
    Because you, unlike Michelle, have a significant number of pet hatreds, and bathe in ignorance of the worst kind. Remember, I didn’t meet you yesterday…
    .
    “And as for Michelle’s intelligence, hmmmmm, refresh my memory, did she pass the bar the first time around?”
    .
    More diversion? Is this relevent? Did you pass the bar the first time around? I know I didn’t.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Avast, me hearties – th’ site apparent has a “duplicate comments” filter – I were receivin’ th’ notice tha’ “it appears you’ve already said that” fer me latest postin fer spongy.
    .
    I guess I’ll be havin’ t’ be a bit more inventive wi’ me wordin’…
    .
    Ahoy spongy – go F yerself!
    .
    Arrgh.

  • pintortwo

    I wonder how the budding democracy in Iraq is affecting events in Iran. Could it be that some Iranians are seeing that the ballot box actually means something in their next door neighbor–hmmmmm. -Spob @ 12:42
    .
    .
    This might begin to answer your query:
    .
    When the final page is written on America’s catastrophic imperial venture, one word will dominate the explanation of U.S. failure—corruption. Large-scale and pervasive corruption meant that available resources could not be used to stabilize and secure Iraq in the early days of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), when it was still possible to do so. Continuing corruption meant that the reconstruction of infrastructure never got underway, giving the Iraqi people little incentive to co-operate with the occupation. Ongoing corruption in arms procurement and defense spending means that Baghdad will never control a viable army while the Shi’ite and Kurdish militias will grow stronger and produce a divided Iraq in which constitutional guarantees will be irrelevant.
    .
    .
    Giraldi proceeds to detail the ongoing graft. Therefore, I expect that to the McCain/Cheney/Bolton/Wolfowitz/Kristol/Krauthammer/Scheunemann cabal, the “budding democracy in Iraq” probably means that Iran presents more opportunity to steal, oppress, build military bases and protect the Military and Oil interests that dominate US policy.

  • 53_3

    “53_3, the Iranian government has helped the killing of US soldiers in Iraq.”
    .
    I don’t swallow nearly as much propaganda as you. In addition, there is the geopolitics to consider, which makes simple actions more difficult.
    .
    I know that doesn’t matter to a patriot like you, but on general principles, my view of the world is that if you kill our guys, we repay the favor”
    .
    You do know this? How? Because I don’t even pay rent on Cheney’s garbled rants? Is it because maybe the above? How about if I consider the entire Iraq war as a complete waste of time and resources? Is that unpatriotic?

  • spob

    53_3, I didn’t suggest that we let drunk drivers die. But it is an interesting moral question, given the reality of scarce resources. Same with resources expended for career criminals, illegal aliens etc.
    .
    As for the 52 million uninsured, how many are aliens? How many are upper middle class; how many are young and have chosen not to get the insurance? How many are career criminals?
    .
    As for diversion re: Michelle, you were the one who brought up her intelligence, not I, and I passed two bar exams the first time around. And I fail to see how anything in here ever shows “pet hatreds”? What? Because I take issue with the POTUS yapping about a “typical white person” or downplaying a vicious six-on-one racially motivated assault as a “schoolyard fight”. Gimme a break. I don’t lecture America about “being ignorant” a la Michelle when I have a history of screwing the urban poor.

  • spob

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Weblogs/TWSFP/TWSFPView.asp
    .
    Enjoy, Obama sycophants. You know, you guys can take a break–his backside can’t accommodate all of you at once–even figuratively . . . .

  • Art Pepper

    Swampland threads are always interesting until they become Spob threads – which is to say, almost immediately. Just sayin’…

  • juniusredivivus

    Seems spob is getting a bit desperate here. Maybe piratewench’s relentless ass-kicking is inducing a touch of panic in the evolutionarily challenged of the Swampland world?

  • 53_3

    “53_3, I didn’t suggest that we let drunk drivers die. But it is an interesting moral question, given the reality of scarce resources. Same with resources expended for career criminals, illegal aliens etc.”
    .
    That’s one of the reasons why I consider you evil. You would consider extra-judicial and extra-constitutional measures. As much as you profess to hate government, who would decide who is in what category? Where is the breakpoint? What criteria?
    .
    “As for the 52 million uninsured, how many are aliens? How many are upper middle class; how many are young and have chosen not to get the insurance? How many are career criminals?”
    .
    Only a small portion of them are in categories other than those who work at jobs where the employer does not provide health insurance or the unemployed.
    .
    “As for diversion re: Michelle, you were the one who brought up her intelligence, not I, and I passed two bar exams the first time around. And I fail to see how anything in here ever shows “pet hatreds”? What? Because I take issue with the POTUS yapping about a “typical white person” or downplaying a vicious six-on-one racially motivated assault as a “schoolyard fight”. Gimme a break. I don’t lecture America about “being ignorant” a la Michelle when I have a history of screwing the urban poor.”
    .
    You’ll just have to live with my opinion of you. I would welcome her and her family as neighbors. You, on the other hand, would not get along with anyone here because of your ignorance, anger, and hatreds. Too many people different from you to be able to deal with, in my opinion.
    .
    You asked, I told…

  • spob

    piratewench’s relentless asskicking? Parroting an obscenity is not exactly an ass-kicking.

  • http://unconquerablegladness.wordpress.com/2009/06/23/treason-cont/ treason (cont) « unconquerable gladness

    [...] 23, 2009 · Leave a Comment joe klein: To put it as simply as possible, McCain–and his cohorts–are trying to score political [...]

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Spongy…
    .
    Arrgh!

  • juniusredivivus

    spob Says:
    Tuesday, June 23, 2009 at 2:06 pm
    piratewench’s relentless asskicking? Parroting an obscenity is not exactly an ass-kicking.
    ……………………

    Well, it certainly beats mindless abuse, which is all you have to offer. As for your two bar exams, you need to work on your fiction, because that attempt was about as convincing as Sarah Palin’s claim to be writing her own book,or John McCain’s attempts to discuss foreign policy.

  • http://2parse.com/?p=3185 John McCain’s Hip-Shooting Onanism – 2parse

    [...] Joe Klein has had enough (h/t Andrew Sullivan): [...]

  • spob

    I’ll just have to live with it? The emnity of a jerk like you, 53_3, is not that big of a deal to me. I’m sure Bill Ayers would be welcome in your house too. It’s all about ideology to you. Saint Michelle dumps on the urban poor (I notice that NO ONE is disagreeing with that statement. You guys gonna let me smear her like that?), and you’re ok with her. I make comments in a blog, and I am “evil”. OK, gotcha.

  • 53_3

    Or rusty’s claim to be a doctor.
    .
    Which brings up the question of just why is a Neo Nazi’s comments getting top billing on the poltics section of the TIMES dead-electron issue for two weeks in a row?

  • readeroftealeaves

    Kudos, Joe Klein.
    First, for info about Iran circa 2009.
    Second, for the analogy between GW Bush and Ahmadinijad, which is almost eerie (and definitely creepy).
    Third, for emphasizing the selfish nature of McCain’s buffoonish, cartoonish braying.

    It’s been incredible to watch the events of the Iran election play out — and it doesn’t look as if things are over yet; not by a longshot.

    It’s also been incredible to watch the neocon reaction: clearly, they’re panicked at the notion that the people they’ve been demonizing have now been exposed as human, after all.

    It also reveals the lack of serious, sober, responsible conduct on the part of the Republicans. Apart from being a public embarrassment, it’s irritating to watch them neglect health care, act as acolytes to the banking and finance industries, and be silent on the topic of tax havens and international fraud.

    If these fools were serious, they’d stop blathering about Obama and put their shoulders to the difficult, challenging, ‘heavy lifting’ involved in making the banks accountable, the health care affordable, and the roads safe.

    Apparently, it’s more emotionally satisfying and easier to whine about Obama’s imagined faults.

    It’s a grim reminder how lucky we are that Obama — who is FAR from perfect! — won the November election.

  • 53_3

    um, spob:
    .
    “piratewench’s relentless asskicking? Parroting an obscenity is not exactly an ass-kicking.”
    .
    That was her parrot, numbskull! Didn’t you know that all pirates, whether wenches or not, have a parrot on their shoulder?
    .
    Consider her parrot a translator…

  • juniusredivivus

    Besides, everyone knows that spob only understands basic English. I suspect she’s a self-hating illegal immigrant with a masochistic need to kiss some large white Republican ass on a regular basis.

  • spob

    given the french-kissing of Obama’s ass that goes on in here, I’d say you’re projecting.
    .
    Come on guys, defend Saint Michelle. Come on. Let’s see ya do it.

  • joaquimaugustoleal

    THIS STUPID KLEIN IS NOW SUPPORTING TERRORIST REGIMES.

    PLEASE TIME MAGAZINE, SHOW THIS MAN THE DOOR OR YOUR PRESTIGE IS GREATLY DIMINISHED.

    I’M A 30 YEAR EUROPEAN SUBSCRIBER AND AM APALLED BY THE IMPORTANCE YOU GIVE THIS TRIVIAL, LOW IQ CREATURE

  • 53_3

    juniusredivivus:
    .
    The dichotomy that is spob is wonderful to watch. Rush Limbaugh, one of his peers, even goes so far as to call his followers “dittoheads”, which is a derogatory moniker for one’s own in the extreme. Rush (and for that matter, most rw blogsites) brooks no dissent on his shows whatever, and he comes here to tell us we are the “true believers” in the “messiah”, whoever that is.
    .
    All one has to do is read the posts to see that there is a lot of issues and ideas being tossed around, but no knee jerk stuff.
    .
    We think. spob just spouts.

  • spob

    yeah, 53_3, you think . . . . You have to–it’s hard to defend Saint Michelle and Apostle David . . . .

  • middlegirl

    Replying in ALL CAPS is the internet’s most reliable measure of lack of IQ, no matter what country you are from.

  • jtholland

    Joe, not sure what you mean by this:

    “I have yet to meet an Iranian who does not believe that the United States gave poison gas to Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war, gas which injured thousands upon thousands of Iranian men, who still live, incapacitated, in the shadows of that society.”

    Your comment makes it sound a bit like you think the Iranians believe some crazy conspiracy theory. Turns out, we did indeed sell poison gas and biological weapon precursors to Iraq in the 80′s. US Sen. Donald Riegle investigated this after the first Gulf War.

    Here’s a nice introduction to the subject for you:

    http://www.sptimes.com/2003/03/16/news_pf/Perspective/How_Iraq_built_its_we.shtml

  • apollyon07

    middlegirl- in regards to your ALL CAPS comment…yes! Glad somebody said it.

  • mrtoads

    It’s interesting that traditionally the political road was from young, idealistic liberal to old, embittered conservative. Over the past few decades, I suspect that there has been somewhat of a reversal there, as the band of pious moral degenerates and buzzword-spouting intellectual cretins that spob so ably represents took over the Republican Party. I swear to God that every time I read one of his lunatic, ludicrous posts I find myself seized with an increasingly strong urge to join the Democratic Party. If he posts enough, I fear I might even become a Marxist.

  • http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2009/06/23/will-the-gop-ever-ever-get-it-iran-edition/ Will the GOP ever, ever get it? Iran edition « Later On

    [...] in Congress, GOP, Iran, Politics at 1:34 pm by LeisureGuy Joe Klein in the Swampland blog: I’ve been receiving a steady stream of favorable emails from Iranian-Americans regarding my [...]

  • kathy

    Joe – I’d love it if you’d comment on this tweet Andrew posted (3:16)(He also hat tipped this column of yours)
    .
    Rafsanjani is waiting 4 Gov to show world extent of their suppression of ppls. Rafsanjani is also waiting for wave of support to grow both in & out of country. Rafsanjani is slowly eroding support for Khamenei from behind scene. Rafsanjani is standing back to see who is who – who support who – to see who is trusted. Rafsanjani is allowing Revolutionary Guard commanders to choose their side – with ppl or against – trusted or not. When all positions clear – Rafsanjani has the military, financial & clerical power to mobilise. The process is slow – but certain – when Rafsanjani speaks – he will be heard.

  • velinda

    Absolute lunacy. ROFLing at the grasping, pathetic
    attempt to STILL bring a former President … who was
    solidly and vocally supportive of the Iranian people
    and their hunger for freedom and relief from oppression …
    to the manchild’s defense over yet another situation.

    Face it, Joe. You ARE the dinosaur, BDS-afflicted,
    messiah-worshipping, one-note media who can’t remove
    the veil from your eyes and the marbles from your
    alleged brain long enough to perceive reality.

    He keeps arrogantly telling us: I’m the President
    of the United States, and I’ll do what I think is right
    (and as today, he sounds like a pouty junior high
    schooler), yet he continually resorts to the mirage
    excuse of all he “inherited.” The whiner in chief.

    Talk the the Iranian American in CA, whose satellite
    radio station is broadcasting the support of Americans
    and reporting on the riots and hearing from the Iranians
    via the pen cameras he sent in there. Ask him what it
    means to the Iranians that America cares about them,
    empathizes with their horrors, and vocalizes their
    empathy and support.

    An innocent young woman is murdered in the street by
    tyrranical thugs, homes are broken into and the residents
    dragged off to torture prisons, your very profession is
    BANNED, reporters who don’t tow the party line can be
    killed … no big deal, right ?

    How ’bout trying some new drugs and original thinking ?

  • jcapan

    OK, Joe Freakin’ Klein, all I have to say is … good writing! If all of our MSM wrote about the world in such an honest & nuanced fashion we’d be far less likely to go to war. I have to add Iran to your other sensible category (Israel/Palestine).
    ~
    And, oh yes, let’s all remember that McCain is a “moderate”

  • anchovy1

    First off I loved how dissent was patriotic before 2009. Now it is dangerous. Second maybe Joel should recall Obama’s own words last year, “”Change is…tough, direct diplomacy where the president of the United States isn’t afraid to let any petty dictator know where America stands and what we stand for.” Seems to me that McCain is heading that call while Obama is not. Third, Joel you show yourself as nothing more than a partisan hack when you refer to Bush as a “crude, unsophisticated demagogue,”. Seems to me that you and Obama were both wrong about The Surge so based on that record you know nothing about the rest of the world.

  • gddragon

    Your comments about whether the revolutionaries are better for America or not sounds like you’re very much of McCain’s ilk. So what if they aren’t particularly pro-American. Whatever happened to they’re in the right so we should support them. Has the sense of right and wrong truly died? And what support do you have for the notion that the President’s speaking out will only get more people killed? Any concrete evidence or just ideology. Can you point to any historical examples? What good could his “encouraging them” (later labeled pejoratively, “grandstanding”)? How about just that encouragement! Morale support from the nation that is supposed to support democracy — what a terrible thing to do.
    But about telling McCain to be quiet and criticizing him for supposed political opportunism (no it can’t be that he is speaking out and calling for the president to support because a terrible outrage is happening in Iran; no it can’t be that so it is merely opportunism) — that is just the kettle calling the pot black. Until you can show that you are free from any such “bluster”, be quiet!! yourself.

  • n1c0las

    congrats on being the Bonehead of the Day, Joe. How you draw the comparison between Bush and the Iranian DICTATOR Ahmadinejad is BEYOND me. ONLY a liberal could draw comparison between Bush and a ruthless dictator. Thank the American way of life for NOT getting your pathetic, no-talent, HACK writing in trouble with the law. If Bush was a dictator, he’d have done what Ahmadinejad does on a daily basis and THROWS any objectors in jail

    consider yourself lucky. Also, we as conservatives appreciate a number of things Bush did. Not everything was perfect, sure, but he did a DECENT job. Wish he would’ve done things better.

    I the communist left “thinks” they know us..

    when we ACTUALLY stand for things like this

    and of coarse the the irony is AMAZING that Obama and other black folks are DEMOCRAT..

    so with THAT said, thanks to the liberal MSM..

    we have a an IDIOT


    who is there ILLEGALLY


    and even Alan Keyes knows it

    and the problem is Obama has had no accountability because its “racist” question a black man..come ON

    at least Michael Steele

    and Jon Voight


    know what’s going on

    in general though, 2008 was a GARBAGE year, thanks to Liberals. Watch and learn from this, back in December 2008..

    still don’t understand why people have a problem with LESS government..are they just stupid? That and ..Democrats DON’T lie?

  • n1c0las

    damn it, for some reason the December 2008 video didn’t show up..

  • n1c0las

    also, I don’t remember Bush making fun of an ethnic holiday..

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Well, it seems the Alan Keyes law of politics still applies. Anyone who takes him seriously is an obvious kook and anything they have to say can be safely disregarded. But then, you knew that, didn’t you, spob? Sorry, I mean knickerless. I can’t tell one troll from another these days.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    formerlybasil –
    .
    thank ye! Ye be savin’ me fr’m yet another go a’ gFy!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    ‘specially since fer THA’ amount o’ bilge juice, I’d o’ been havin’ t’ put a resoundin’ “JESUS!” in front o’ it!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Which, as me pal sacred be knowin’ only too well…tha’ would’a been addin’ considerable t’ me sacrilege total…

  • matt333444

    Joe Klein, Do you resent japan for 1941? Do you still hate Germany for WWII? If the US was ruled by gun right now would you be upset if Japan and Germany spoke up on your behalf?? There answer is of course not.

    So why do you think the people of Iran define us by our “sins” of the past???Why would they not want the worlds support???

  • http://www.taylormarsh.com/2009/06/23/tm-dc-podcast-2/ ‘TM-DC’ Podcast | TaylorMarsh.com

    [...] about Iran, of course, but there’s also some fun mixed with the serious stuff. Couldn’t resist [...]

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Careful, pirate wench – just don’t say “Jehovah”.

    And it’s a pleasure to help you kicking Two A$$holes’ ass…

  • shepherdwong

    Joe, you must be something right. You got the wingnuts’ knickers all in a knot. Excellent work.

  • waitinontheworld

    Joe, stop patting yourself on the back – all it does is hurt your shoulder (I have first hand experience with this).

    I’m very disappointed with the low number of comments about this article. I’m even more disappointed with the vile that people use in their comments to each other. It’s weird how people feel the need to play the political game – all the time. Maybe it’s time to discontinue the anonymity of those who comment?

    Some random and incomplete thoughts:

    This game of politics is occurring in Iran and will lead nowhere but to a destructive end. The huge egos involved have staked their territory and will not back down.

    Iranian Americans have no clue. They say for American leaders to be quiet but the hopes of the originators of the peaceful protests in Iran (women and university students) are pinned to the fact that they believe in the American style of democracy and desperately need America to take note of their endeavors. Obama has “beefed” up his statements but his earlier silence roared in the ears of those who believe in change.

    McCain is just doing his political “job”. Let him huff and puff – don’t rip him for playing the same game that ALL politicians play and too many in America also play. Calling McCain or Obama names (neo-con or lib) is just trying to place them in a convenient box and is not accurate.

    Finally, never believe everything you read or hear. It’s tainted and it has been for a long time.

    Good luck.

  • juniusredivivus

    waitin, so in sum you think that we should believe nothing, say nothing and hope for nothing? As for your comments on anonymity, why not lead the way? I have doubts that your parents really named you “waitin”. And no, McCain’s ignorant grandstanding is the reverse of “doing his job. The demonstrations in Iran are about freedom and some sort of “democracy”. McCain’s flatulent egomania does nothing to help them, much less benefit America,not to mention the fact that he has no credentials and no credibility in foreign affairs.

  • fhmadvocat

    What happened to politics stopping at the water’s edge? What is McCain thinking? It gets me how these neo-Cons have no clue to what is happening in Iran. I read Krauthammer’s op-ed and am now completely convinced this man is not in touch with reality.

    Does anyone really believe this is some kind of “revolution”? These people all work within the Islamic Republic system. Mousavi is not some type of “liberal” reformer, as much as he would be a kinder, gentler, Ahmadinejad. It is ironic that some have made the comparison with Iraq, because Mousavi is not liked in Iraq and it is unlikely he would welcomed if he visited.

    I think spob claimed Obama was giving the regime a “free hand” that there would be no consequences for brutally suppressing the protests. Guess what, if Obama had been vocal like the neo-Cons would have liked, it would have driven fence sitters who would have feared being labelled American agents and provacateurs! Obama has handled the situation properly. We can’t make the same mistakes like Hungry in 1956, Cuba in the early 60s or Iraq in 1991. It seems some people are doomed to repeat history.

  • juniusredivivus

    fhmadvocat Says:
    Wednesday, June 24, 2009 at 12:15 am
    I read Krauthammer’s op-ed and am now completely convinced this man is not in touch with reality.

    ……………………………………..

    Well, let’s be fair, Krauthammer has been ferociously anti-reality for all of his long and sordid career or ignorance, bigotry and folly. You can’t expect him to develop any affection for it now.

  • http://www.spacefiddle.com/2009/06/24/a-final-comment-on-the-neocon-reality/ A final comment on the NeoCon reality | spacefiddle

    [...] I must sleep, i found this comment over at Swampland, in response to Joe Klein’s follow-up to his Larry King appearance: “These really are people who believe that Reagan won the cold [...]

  • unapologeticamerican

    The similarity between liberals and Iranian protestors is impressive. Both hate America and both are too big a bunch of p*ssies to do anything but protest. Kindred spirits one could say….

  • http://desperadosoutpost.com/2009/06/24/good-advice-for-senator-mccain-be-quiet/ Good Advice For Senator McCain: “Be Quiet” « Desperado’s Outpost

    [...] The day following his remarks on Larry King, Klein posted this at Swampland: [...]

  • http://www.verumserum.com John

    Joe,

    For a guy who, a week before the election, was writing about Presidential debates in Iran as if this was a real democracy, maybe you shouldn’t be advising anyone else on what to say.

  • http://ingermerete.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/obama-og-iran/ Obama og Iran « Dette er ikke en blogg

    [...] Joe Klein, som nylig er vendt tilbake til USA etter et besøk i Iran for å observere valget, er inne på mye av de samme tankene på TIMEs blogg Swampland. Han har flere [...]

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