In the Arena

There Will Be Blood

The Washington Post’s increasingly strident op-ed page offers a double-barreled neocon assault on President Obama’s Iran position today by Charles Krauthammer and Paul Wolfowitz. And it’s interesting to see these fellows–among the smartest of the neos–deploy the usual intellectual shortcuts in the neoconservative bag of tricks: Broad, unsupported statements of opinion posing as fact…and false historical analogies.

Take Krauthammer. He boldly states this:

The demonstrators are fighting on their own, but they await just a word that America is on their side.

They do? Which ones? Name one. And if that word came, what then? Would it be the same as the “word” Dwight Eisenhower sent, and later regretted, supporting the Hungarian protesters in 1956 when he had no intention of supporting them militarily? Or the “word” that George H.W. Bush sent the Iraqi Shi’ites after the first Gulf War, who then rebelled against Saddam Hussein and were slaughtered? In fact, it seemed clear to me when I was in Iran–and even more clear, given the events of the past few days–that the protesters realize that they have to do this on their own. And that an American endorsement would taint their movement, perhaps fatally.

Wolfowitz deploys an interesting historical analogy from his own past–the Reagan intervention in the Philipine elections–but it is flawed as well. For one thing, no winner had been announced when Reagan intervened, after a period of restaint, in favor of Corazon Aquino and those who voted to topple President-for-Life Ferdinand Marcos.  For another, the Philippines  were a  former  U.S. colony that remained, at that point, very much a U.S. client state.  We had military bases there.  We had real power. (Wolfowitz also doesn’t deal with the fact that there were announced results in the Iranian elections–and that Ahmadinejad might well have won without the fraud.)

Iran is quite the opposite from the Philippines. It never was an American colony, but the U.S. policy toward the Persians was relentlessly neocolonial. The U.S. has had, in fact, a notably disgraceful history of intervening in Iranian affairs. There was the CIA involvement in the overthrow of the Mossadegh government in 1953, which Obama spoke about in his Cairo speech. There was the U.S. support for the Shah, who ran a regime every bit as repressive and arguably more brutal than the Mullahs. There was the U.S. support for Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq war–and this remains a bleeding wound in Iran: I spoke with a woman in South Tehran last week whose husband is incapacitated by the poison gas Saddam used during the war (and which all Iranians, including those in the streets, are convinced was supplied by the Americans). There are many chemical victims of the war in Iran, and many war dead, a constant reminder of U.S. meddling. And there was George W. Bush’s pronouncement of Iran as part of an Axis of Evil, which many of the Iranians I first met in 2001 and have kept in touch with ever since–vehement reformers all–found insulting.

If Charles Krauthammer had bothered to ask anyone, he would have learned that the reform movement is every bit as outraged by the history of U.S. meddling as the Ahmadinejad supporters are–arguably moreso, because they are well-educated, sophisticated people who despise the neocolonialist condescension toward  Iran that marked American presidents from Dwight Eisenhower to George W. Bush.

The failure to understand this basic fact–the failure to even care what Iranians, even the Iranians who hate the regime,  actually think–is at the heart of the lethal carelessness that marked the Bush Junior’s Administration and neoconservative thinking in general. I would guess that the Supreme Leader–which is the man’s actual title, no matter how Krauthammer disdains it–is itching for an excuse to send tanks into the streets. (Which he may well do anyway.) If Barack Obama were sounding like John McCain, the tanks would have been in the streets days ago, with hundreds, perhaps thousands of people killed, and a ready excuse that would have great credibility with the Iranian people: the U.S. was at it again, trying to foment a revolution to overthrow the duly elected government of Iran.

But then, in the long-term scheme of things, the neoconservatives would undoubtedly argue, blood will be spilled in the pursuit of freedom. Undouboutedly true, but you don’t want the blood to be on your hands. You want it to be the choice of those who are risking their lives in the streets.

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  • 53_3

    Joe, of course you realize that absolutely nothing happened between Jan 20, 2001 and Jan 20, 2009.
    .
    Nothing whatsoever happened that would have caused the government of Iran to snuff the Rasfanjani / Khamenei reforms that were budding at the time!
    .
    How could you possibly dispute this phackt?

  • jsfox

    Could someone please point to a time in recent memory when Wolfowitz and Krauthammer have been right about anything concerning foreign policy.

  • plukasiak

    okay, who kidnapped Joe Klein. He’s been making way too much sense for the past couple of months — and hasn’t said anything incredibly moronic during that period. That’s not the Joe Klein who has been writing at Swampland for the last couple of years — so who is this guy? ;)

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Krauthammer still has a job, Wolfowitz gets a guest gig and yet Froomkin’s gone.
    .
    Your liberal media at work!
    .
    Thanks for the post JK, it’s a good one.

  • hellslittlestangel

    With the sacking of Dan Froomkin, I’ve given up on even looking at the Post. For a long time, I mostly read it to make fun of their OpEd clowns, but they’ve just gotten too ugly and vicious to laugh at anymore. It’s like reading a spell-checked Free Republic.

  • choska

    I used to think it would be sad when The Washington Times was the only paper left in DC.
    .
    Now I realize that there isn’t a bit of difference between The Washington Post and The Washington Times. Both are simply propaganda sheets for the Right
    .
    It’s time for the blogosphere to start treating the Post they way it treats unserious news outlets like the Times or NewsMax: just ignore it. No more links. No more references. It is brain dead, and there is nothing left to see there.
    .
    The management of the Post would rather be running Kaplan, anyway. Everyone would be better off if they shuttered the Post and focused on running the business they own that actually is good at what it does.

  • gysgt213

    There are after all rewards in being wrong and intellectually dishonest. In if fact there appears there exists no down sides to being wrong.

  • Friar Tuck

    Shorter Klein: I have more expertise in world affairs than Krauthammer and Wolfowitz.
    .
    So who doesn’t?

  • tantef

    Choska, I am totaly unfamilar with Kaplan. What is it? I only read the Post for Froomkin. Thanks in advance for the education.

  • hotbbq

    Kaplan is a test preparation company. SAT, MCAT, etc.

  • queencersei

    When will these people realize that an American brand of democracy doesn’t fit every country and isn’t ours to “give out” anyway. The Iranians are having an internal struggle that needs to be solved by the Iranians themselves. If anyone is going to topple the current Iranian regime, it must be the Iranian people themselves.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Kaplan is the college/grad school test prep publisher that actually makes money for the Washington Post’s holding company.
    .
    I will no longer knowingly click through to the WaPo following Froomkin’s firing. It doesn’t matter. I’ve read this drivel before. It doesn’t change.
    .
    But, Joe, I would like to know how these people keep their platforms. They have been wrong in every regard wrt foreign policy. The Manichean view that underlies everything they write is both stupid and destructive. That they cannot understand that the people who are opposed to the current Iraqi government are not fans of the US is telling.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    We need t’ be stayin’ out o’ this an’ let th’ Iranians settle it themselves. After they do, we deal wi’ whatever government they be havin’. Land’s sakes – we be not dealin wi’ ‘em a’ all fer years – they’re tryin’ t’ tell us tha’ waitin’ another month ‘r two is goin’ t’ be a disaster?
    .
    We got t’ be th’ Great Satan through our meddlin’ – th’ worst thing we can be doin’ now is t’ be seen as’ doin’ th’ same thing all over ag’n. Thar be nothin’ worse fer those protestin’ th’ vote than t’ be cast as puppets o’ th’ Great Satan.
    .
    Leave it be!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • tantef

    Thank you hot and jay. I did google Kaplan and saw the test prep info but could not get my mind around the fact that anyone that owns the WP could prepare anyone for an actual test. How can they educate students and yet not be able to enlighten the public? Rhetorical question…

  • queencersei

    Let’s not forget that the eminent Wall Street Journal continues to give Karl Rove a platform to spin out his version of revisionist history. I’ve noticed that they never allow readers to comment on his opinion pieces.

  • spob

    Joe, let’s face it, when Barack Hussein Obama talks about the “Supreme Leader” it’s getting close to a “kneel before Zod” moment. Krauthammer is absolutely right to call Obama out on his “obsequiousness”. It’s disgusting. It’s up there with the bowing to the Saudi king (what a rube).

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    what a rube
    .
    Project much?

  • Friar Tuck

    what a rube
    .
    spob would know.

  • 53_3

    spob is a loaded gun pointed right at the heart of reason and sanity.

  • tantef

    Does that mean that spob x sponge x rusty = rube cubed?

  • spob

    PD, FT, if I am such a rube, why do I always kick your ass in here?
    .
    VDH, of course, gets it right:
    .
    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTdmYWNiOTgwMjIxY2MxYTU0ZmIzZTY3YjVlNGZmMTg=

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    So where did you think all that American white supremacy went? Did you really think that in the 40 years since the civil rights act and blatant white supremacy became socially unacceptable it simply disappeared? No my friend, it morphed into neoconservatism.

  • apollyon07

    I think Obama either has to go all-in on this or nothing at all (as opposed to Bush 41′s attempt to have his cake and eat it too, which resulted in a slaughter, or JFK’s no air-cover approach to the Bay of Pigs). Honestly, I don’t think anything Obama says will have much of a positive affect, so it’s probably best, in the short term, that he goes with nothing at all for now.

  • rmrd

    shorter spob
    .
    bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran
    .
    Oh and in your reply to PD and FT, you misspelled “kiss”

  • spob

    “With the sacking of Dan Froomkin, I’ve given up on even looking at the Post. For a long time, I mostly read it to make fun of their OpEd clowns, but they’ve just gotten too ugly and vicious to laugh at anymore. It’s like reading a spell-checked Free Republic.”
    .
    Yeah, hellslittleangel, that’s about right. Do you guys even read the crap you post in here? I know it’s fun amplifying the echo chamber, but let’s have a little more brainpower.
    .
    And hells, like I said before, somehow I doubt you’re that fun of a date, despite your name. I bet you have plenty of time to think before you post. Prudish, billious scolds usually have plenty of time–especially on a Saturday nite.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    why do I always kick your ass in here?
    .
    Because you live in a comic-book fantasy world where actual results are irrelevant. Perhaps you should seek a second opinion….

  • Friar Tuck

    PD, FT, if I am such a rube, why do I always kick your ass in here?
    .
    Project much?

  • rose83

    The demonstrators are fighting on their own, but they await just a word that America is on their side.
    .
    If this kind of thinking were not so influential and thus deadly, Krauthammer’s “they really like us!” attitude would almost be sweet, like a child believing in the Tooth Fairy.
    .
    Ordinary Iranians don’t like the American government, and we wouldn’t either in their place.

  • bitterpill8

    WaPo has become home to the Neocons. And they wonder why their circulation is dropping? These are the people who are always ready to expend the blood of others while they live in comfortable surroundings in the Washington area. Not to worry; the WaPo will soon be a shadow of itself; and deservedly so.

  • 53_3

    spob only imagines his pwns us.
    .
    But then, in nearly everything, he is totally inverted, so what would you expect from him.
    .
    He’s good at insults, but very, very short on content!

  • Friar Tuck

    Rory Gallagher says it best: “Brute Force and Ignorance”!
    .

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Ready to clear your head of the kook Klein crap?

    We thought so…

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • hotbbq

    @rose83
    I’m not crazy about much of American government myself. And I’m a citizen!

  • 53_3

    And I agree with Apollyon07. Obama’s best move is to sit on his hands and let this play out.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Obama says wait and see on Iran’s mullahs, should not jump to conclusions on thugs that chant Death To America breakfast, lunch, and Moyers.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    CIA overthrow of Iran’s Soviet suckling regime 50 years ago haunts Obama more than his overthrow of U.S. free enterprise system 50 days ago.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • 53_3

    hulagate a tweeter?
    .
    Long time. Otis doesn’t have anything to do since hula’s been gone.
    .
    He’s more of a horrid squawk, methinks…

  • plukasiak

    Thank you hot and jay. I did google Kaplan and saw the test prep info but could not get my mind around the fact that anyone that owns the WP could prepare anyone for an actual test. How can they educate students and yet not be able to enlighten the public?
    _
    actually, Kaplan is a perfect fit for the Post. Test-prep has nothing to do with the acquisition of knowledge; its all about coming up with the appropriate response. As long as you understand how the questions are structured, you can come up with the “right” answers even though you don’t actually have knowledge of the subject matter.
    _
    The Post does journalism in much the same way. The facts don’t matter — what matters is understanding what is expected in the formal sense, and delivering it. People like Kristol, Will, and Krautheimer get high “test scores” because they deliver in terms of what is expected. Their consistently demonstrated ignoranc of facts and meaning is irrelevant, because knowledge is not the commodity being tested for…
    _

    Rhetorical question…
    _
    nevermind ;)

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Alarm clock in White House stuck at 2:59 A.M. since morning of January 21st, phone lines also AWOL, POTUS to use hand puppets through May.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • 53_3

    hula, RUN LIKE HELL!
    .
    They’re coming for you!
    .
    Soon, you will be growing watermelons on your lawn…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Iranian secret police continue to disappear student dissidents, President Peacock demands that someone please find him a map of Irania.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • afguy

    Ordinary Iranians don’t like the American government, and we wouldn’t either in their place.
    .
    rose83,
    .
    A lot of people around the world like Americans but hate our government for the positions it takes regarding their affairs.
    .
    Put the shoe on the other foot (if they were meddling in our affairs and taking active positions on who should be elected here), and we would rightly be outraged.
    .
    I guess it’s going to take a while for the hypocrisy of “American exceptionalism” to work it’s way out of our moral philosophy (kinda like getting over a chronic case of dysentery – it’s gonna smell bad while it’s happening but will feel good when it’s finally gone).

  • Friar Tuck

    . . . and plukasiak throws a heater right down the middle of the plate! Hear, Hear.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    President Peacock goes all AWOL on Iran, Dough Boy Gibbs defends POTUS’s right to wimp out on freedom just like he did on FISA and finance.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • stuartzechman

    Joe Klein:
    .
    Of course you are correct; it’s rather obvious to anyone who’s paying attention to what’s happening in Iran that nobody is waiting for the US to do or say anything whatsoever.
    .
    You mention that there is an intellectually depraved cottage industry that routinely makes disastrously wrong, ideologically and politically-based arguments using:
    .
    Broad, unsupported statements of opinion posing as fact…and false historical analogies.
    .
    Given that Dan Froomkin –whose tenure at the Post was remarkable for its independence and honest criticism– has been summarily and inexplicably fired, don’t you think that there’s something missing from your analysis?
    .
    Doesn’t Fred Hiatt’s Washington Post bears the blame for publishing Krauthammer, Wolfowitz and Co’s “opinion posing as fact”?
    .
    Isn’t the Washington Post’s wholesale endorsement of “opinion posing as fact” (Will’s problems with factual accuracy in his columns on climate change come to mind) as a legitimate, serious form of debate the real problem?
    .
    This is Paul Wolfowitz, the person who is held up as a credible voice on foreign policy by the Post:

    On March 27, 2003, Wolfowitz told a Congressional panel that oil revenue earned by Iraq alone would pay for Iraq’s reconstruction after the Iraq war; he testified: “The oil revenues of that country could bring between $50 and $100 billion over the course of the next two or three years. Now, there are a lot of claims on that money, but … We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon.”[38]
    .
    During Wolfowitz’s pre-war testimony before Congress, he dismissed General Eric K. Shinseki’s estimates of the size of the post war occupation force and estimated that fewer than 100,000 troops would be necessary in the war. Two days after Shinseki testified, Wolfowitz said to the House Budget Committee on February 27, 2003
    :

    There has been a good deal of comment—some of it quite outlandish—about what our postwar requirements might be in Iraq. Some of the higher end predictions we have been hearing recently, such as the notion that it will take several hundred thousand U.S. troops to provide stability in post-Saddam Iraq, are wildly off the mark. It is hard to conceive that it would take more forces to provide stability in post-Saddam Iraq than it would take to conduct the war itself and to secure the surrender of Saddam’s security forces and his army—hard to imagine.[33]

    .
    How is it possible that a person like Wolfowitz– whose foreign policy analysis has been proven so colossally wrong and counter-productive to the interests of the United States– can be offered a serious platform for more counter-factual, counter-historical nonsense to enter what should be a serious discussion?
    .
    Isn’t it possible that the reasons why independent voices like Froomkin’s are silenced, and established voices like Krauthammer’s are elevated have to do with the Post’s apparent formula for determining credibility? Doesn’t it seem as if foreign policy credibility (at least in Fred Hiatt’s mind) somehow depends solely on one’s tenure in established Beltway social circles –even if the actual record of one’s analysis is proven completely wrong, and one’s current contributions consist of “Broad, unsupported statements of opinion posing as fact…and false historical analogies“?
    .
    Why isn’t the Post deserving of as much or more of your criticism as these neo-conservative fools and opportunists, Joe Klein?

  • afguy

    Speaking of a “chronic” case of dysentery . . . hula’s back.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    FDR AWOL on Hitler for 7 YEARS, Bush AWOL on 9-11 for 7 minutes, Obama AWOL on reality for 100 days and counting, Honolulu on DOOFUS alert.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    POTUS redefines definition of word “meddle” to include any attempt to force enslaved people to think that their self-determination matters.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Allahpalooza summer slacker sessions extended featuring Obama & The Non-Meddlers, Sacramento Slush Funders, and Hillary Hears A Hormone.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • tantef

    Thank you pluk…back in my day you actually had to have an understanding of the subject to pass a test. Please feel free to answer my rhetorical questions any time. I come here to learn…and laugh at spob’s ilk.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Stalinists in Tehran unparsed by 1st world condemnation of police state beating voters upside burqas, church of Rev Wright sits on hands.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • stuartzechman

    Welcome back, QH.

  • http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=22830 Balloon Juice » Blog Archive » How So?

    [...] Plank, notes that the Krauthammer and Wolfowitz aren’t even trying to form an argument, and based on this piece, I’m pretty convinced that given the opportunity, Joe Klein would punch them both in the [...]

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Mullah fighters spooked by sight of President Peacock on MS-Jazeera professing neutrality act for benefit of UAW brethren, Vermont secedes.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • rmrd

    spob wrote
    .

    …………..but let’s have a little more brainpower.
    .
    And hells, like I said before, somehow I doubt you’re that fun of a date, despite your name. I bet you have plenty of time to think before you post. Prudish, bilious scolds usually have plenty of time–especially on a Saturday nite……………..
    .
    You really don’t get the laugh riot that you are producing here, do you?
    Everyone is reading projection into each of your post’s and your comments fit you like a glove.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Obama kicks off A NUKE IN EVERY KIBBUTZ campaign to separate Them Jews from Allah’s EFP Machine in Tehran, Gaza Strip Mall closing early.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • apollyon07

    Is there any way one of the moderators/posters can block Hula? All he does is leave political one-liners. it’s so annoying. I don’t care about the actual content of them, it’s just annoying how they are usually not relevant, and how he/she lives in a vacuum.
    .
    And to clarify what I meant earlier, I don’t necessarily think he shouldn’t do/say anything in the distant future, but for the short term he should probably sit this one out.

  • Friar Tuck

    HILLARY! HILLARY!
    GOOD FOR YOU AND GOOD FOR ME!
    .
    Fun times, great memories.

  • apollyon07

    Stuart, who/what is QH?

  • Friar Tuck

    Is there any way one of the moderators/posters can block Hula?
    .
    Welcome, apollyon07. You are now a full citizen of the Swamp.

  • jymallyn

    hulagate, you are obviously suffering from “fecalis mentalis.”

    If it is an opinion from Krauthammer or Wolfowitz or Faux News it is either wrong or a lie.

    Faux News was so desparate to find something negative to say about Obama that rather than show stories about what was happening in Iran, they had some nut job from PETA complaining about Obama’s ability to kill a fly.

    That’s why it is known as Faux News and watching it reduced your IQ by at least 10 points.

  • http://policingwingnutwelfare.blogspot.com/ JJ

    The U.S. has had, in fact, a notably disgraceful history of intervening in Iranian affairs…

    Yeah, how about Stewart Copeland’s dad:

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_v39/ai_5169255/pg_9/?tag=content;col1

  • 53_3

    He seems to have settled on the Hulagate poisonality.
    .
    FYI for those who don’t know, he has several of the “poisonalities” which he changes like we change socks.
    .
    What really sucks is that after spob’s latest inanity, I was thinking to myself:
    .
    “I wonder what happened to Hulagate?”
    .
    And, poof! Here we are!
    .
    Sorry, everyone!

  • apollyon07

    jymallyn, while I don’t disagree with anything you said, I think, admittedly, that the purpose of the PETA thing on Fox was probably to show how absurd PETA is.

  • Friar Tuck

    apollyon07,
    .
    SZ’s probably writing the history of QH as we converse, BUT:
    .
    The short version is that hulagate is the latest incarnation of Question Hillary (thus QH), a troll who surfaced back in the Bronze Age, when Hillary Clinton was the heir presumptive to the Democratic Party nomination. His lengthy, incoherent posts in caps-lock mode led, for a time, to moderation rejecting any post made solely in all caps.
    .
    Shortly after Hillary tanked (QH is always wrong – you can set your watch by it), “obamish” was born, and now hulagate.

  • bullsmith

    Firing Froomkin was the last straw for me, I’m done with the Post for good. I was a daily reader, did the politics chat almost every day, but the paper’s quality has been in shockingly steady decline that has amazingly only increased in intensity since the election. The Editorial side of the paper is frankly out of control, packed with uncorrected outright falsehoods and outrageously slanted to the Bush crew. I mean really there are days you get Krauthammer, Gerson, Will, a Hiatt editorial AND a guest Neocon all at the same time.

    I can’t in good conscience be part of helping them survive. In fact I wish them a speedy bankruptcy. Sad but true.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Where’s Janet Cooke when Time-CNN needs her?

    Klein remains a self-absorbed, myopic, news of the minute putz: Iran’s EDUCATED people lean West, and have since at least the Shah if not before. The mullahs tried to wipe out the Western-educated class and military membership (a few escaped to the States before the 444 DAYS Carter collapse of relative freedom and social modernity), but even that internal holocaust could not forever hold back the power of modern communications unfettered by the media and academic filters of the loon left.

    [Yo, Joe: What popular LANGUAGE are the protest kids using on their signs pointed directly at the TV cameras and cell phones? You, sir, are a disheveling, intellectually stunted twerp.]

    Let it be shown, then, that Klein today was for the Rwanda Doctrine in Iran.

    Not news, to anyone that’s read his Blame Israel First crap.

    Move on, indeed.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Ahh, cr*p! Hula be back – he an’ spongy make a great pair…o’ sea sh*ts, tha’ be!’.
    .
    I’d try t’ respond t’ em, bu’ b’tween ‘em both they no be havin’ th’ brains God gave a nematode! So it be more fun t’ entertain meself by just makin’ fun o’ ‘em – it be all th’ response they be deservin’!
    .
    Arrgh!

  • apollyon07

    Pirate Wench- Can I meet you in person? Please?

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Worth repeating, to you UAW unemployables in Sacramento waiting on your next Americrap kickback…

    =================

    Where’s Janet Cooke when Time-CNN needs her?

    Klein remains a self-absorbed, myopic, news of the minute putz: Iran’s EDUCATED people lean West, and have since at least the Shah if not before. The mullahs tried to wipe out the Western-educated class and military membership (a few escaped to the States before the 444 DAYS Carter collapse of relative freedom and social modernity), but even that internal holocaust could not forever hold back the power of modern communications unfettered by the media and academic filters of the loon left.

    [Yo, Joe: What popular LANGUAGE are the protest kids using on their signs pointed directly at the TV cameras and cell phones? You, sir, are a disheveling, intellectually stunted twerp.]

    Let it be shown, then, that Klein today was for the Rwanda Doctrine in Iran.

    Not news, to anyone that’s read his Blame Israel First crap.

    Move on, indeed.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • Friar Tuck

    pirate wench -
    .
    First neo, and now apollyon07? Ye be n’only a rale ould Spit-Fire, but e’en a breaker o’ hearts!

  • afguy

    Pirate Wench- Can I meet you in person? Please?
    .
    apollyon07,
    .
    I think we all would like to do that. Methinks it would be a hoot!

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Klein’s the John Murtha of the media: Somehow or other, stupid people keep overlooking his litany of lies.

    If he’s not working for Obama this week he may well next week, given Time’s financial prospects with or without AOL and Paris Match.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Ahhh hula, I be seein’ ye now, hips softly swain’ t’ th’ strummin’ o’ th’ ukelele…lotus blossom pinned b’hind yer pretty little ear…a wee flash o’ thigh now an’ anon as th’ grass from yer skirt gently brushes back an’ forth…
    .
    An spongy sittin’ in wrapt attention as ye work yer wiles wi’ th’ come=hither liquidity o’ her hands…
    .
    Mmmmmm – wha’ a picture ;) ! I thought I should be sharin’ it ;) .
    .
    Th’ dance continues…
    .
    Arrgh!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Appol – nay laddie, this no’ be tha’ sort o’ forum!

  • 53_3

    Oh, hhhggggpphhhtttplllash!
    .
    I be harfin’ all o’er me keyboard, matie!

  • stuartzechman

    apollyon07:
    .
    FT has it covered, so I’ll abridge the Peloponnesian War I was just about to finish, and just post this gem for flavor:

    # QUESTION HILLARY Says:
    Monday, February 26, 2007 at 7:23 am
    .
    Having problems dissecting Clinton Spiel from Obama Camp from Edwards Prattle from Cronkite Croaking? Here’s some help…
    .
    Anti-War: Anti-victory, anti-military (particularly the United States military), anti-democracy, anti-Israel, anti-female education, anti-actual employment, anti-human marriage, anti-pay back your overdue college loan Bruce, anti-shoes, anti-baseline personal hygiene. Not to be confused with true peace and actual justice, at any moment in human history.
    .
    Bigot: Any person that freely attends the church or temple of their choice.
    .
    Blogger: If with former Senator Skimmy Edwards campaign? See BIGOT, above.
    .
    BLT: Bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich (may optionally use mutton for bacon, with similar results). Properly applied to lightly toasted sourdough bread with mayo, it is widely believed to be heaven on earth. May be the key to world peace, if not your own flame-throwing DNC political hack Global Gutter. See EGG SALAD on wheat, as an acceptable substitute if no sacrilegious celery is used.
    .
    Diversity: More than one narcissistic Mommy or Daddy living in the same household. Also see MARIN COUNTY.
    .
    Halfbright: Maddie (also see CRATER, JIM BOB).
    .
    Hate speech: See DEAN, HOWARD.
    .
    Homophobia: Safe, effective, politically incorrect antidote for heterophobia.
    .
    Justice: Getting back to your Seattle luxury condo from the Earth 1st Soup & Salad MeetUp in time for the 4 o’clock CW re-run of Will & Grace.
    .
    Mother Jones: Never heard of him.
    .
    NOW: Flailing, fictional PBS series that affords PBS staffers the publicly funded PBS monies to pay the private PBS re-hab bills for their adult PBS stoner kids.
    .
    Oral sex: Purely redundant Blue State massage obligation for post-graduate, pre-law license revocation studies.
    .
    Oscar ceremony: When some guy named Oscar has a ceremony.
    .
    Peace: Use of a special prosecutor or Human Lefts Watch lawyer to harass working Republicans.
    .
    Penis: Allah’s worst invention, after the vagina.
    .
    Petra Kelly: Last known leftist to hold an actual day job. Also see FRANCO, FRANCISCO and GERMANY, FORMER EAST for similar political results.
    .
    Pinprick: Lowest common legal denominator for stellar 4-month liberal war hero’s GET ME HOME NOW, DADDY medal qualifiers.
    .
    Sven Ifill Tower Records: Tall, empty, soul-less shell of a fading leftist archival media lieberry found in Paris, France, with a rather unreasonable facsimile version in Washington, DC. Publicly funded, less speaking fees.
    .
    Ugly Truth: See GEFFEN, DAVID.
    .
    Unilateral Surrender: Core DNA sample results from most American liberals of post-Truman appeasement era (also see KENNEDY, FONDA, HAYDEN, MCGOVERN, CASTRO, CHAVEZ, LETTERMAN, LENO, UNCLE HO for related details before purchase).
    .
    More here soon!

    # Anonymous Says:
    Monday, June 11, 2007 at 3:10 am

    WTF…?

    I personally find the commentary of Question Hillary/Obamish/Hulagate to be without compare. What the Bush foreign policy was to the targets of Jihadi recruiters, so QH’s commentary is to folks on the fence about liberalism. QH is a walking advertisement for the fact that the Republican base is not reality-based.
    .
    It’s going to be interesting watching spob deal with being in ideological lockstep with QH…

  • 53_3

    I’m picking the chunks out from between the keys…

  • 53_3

    “It’s going to be interesting watching spob deal with being in ideological lockstep with QH…”
    .
    A three-legged sack race, perhaps?

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    I tol’ ye they be ri’ entertainin’ if ye be in th’ ri’ sort o’ mind about ‘em, me hearty!
    .
    I be workin’ on scene two, bu’ be stuck fer th’ moment on’ the imagery o’ th’ first.
    .
    Feel free t’ be helpin’ me out, mates!

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Obama still stand-Opieish on Iran’s people meddling with Stalinist standard, cites lack of IG to fire for interrupting flow of DNC slush.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Obama tasks Jackson Browne with chore of mis-leading peeps on lack of Iran process once cleared by Treasury and Hot Girl Beaters Association.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • pafro

    Can I comment here, I can’t on the last post anymore?

  • 53_3
  • acgt

    Great Stuff Joe. Profound! Brilliant! Professional!

  • http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/neocons-love-the-spilling-of-others-blood/ Neocons love the spilling of others’ blood « Later On

    [...] Iran, Media at 9:51 am by LeisureGuy Now they’re trying to get the US to intervene in Iran. Joe Klein of TIME: The Washington Post’s increasingly strident op-ed page offers a double-barreled neocon [...]

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Joni Mitchell asks POTUS for immediate reconsideration of Obama tasking of Jackson Browne as Special Representative For Iranian Chicks.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    …Followin’ ‘er conquest, hula be sittin’ under a coconut tree, spongy’s wee head cradled gently in ‘er lap. “Tha’ were wonderful!” spongy dreamily says, whilst hula pulls pieces o’ crunchy pigskin off th’ roast sucklin’ standin’ nearby an’ drops ‘em daintily into spongy’s mouth b’fore lickin’ th’ fat off o’ er shiny fingers. “Don’t be tellin’ anyone we be eatin’ pork, tho – it mi’ be interferin’ wi’ our Israel-hatin’ schtick – tha’ be one o’ our standards!”
    .
    “Why spongy…neither o’ us never ‘ad a problem wi’ hypocracy b’fore! Why so sensitive now?”
    .
    “B’cause…once they be startin’ t’ QUESTION one thing, thar be no end! Bu, don’t ye be worryin’ yer pretty little head ’bout tha’ me tropic flower…how’s about another dance? Me neo friend ‘ere wants t’ be partakin’ ‘o yer hypnotic persuasive swayin’ too!”
    .
    “Don’t ye be worryin’ YER pretty head, spongy – we still got the athiest muslim anti-american appeasement piles t’ work fr’m!”
    .
    Hula gets up an’ begins slowly swayin’ ‘er hips an’ chantin’ ‘er lies ag’in, t’ th’ wonder an’ delight o’ spongy an’ neo.
    .
    An’ th’ dance continues…
    Arrgh!

  • http://fatistician.wordpress.com shinobi42

    Could someone please find every NeoCon who is talking about how we need to take a harder stance in Iran and staple this article to their forehead? (Inwards, so they can read it, if they can read.)

  • FlownOver

    Couldn’t Krauthammer, Lugosi… er, Wolfowitz…, McCain and their ilk just make do with some of the male enhancement products flooding the airwaves?

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Carter Lite determined to stay out of Iran discussion, does not want to be accused of meddling in possible freedom of another 50 million people.

    ///

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Obama to retroactively declare 60′s Freedom Riders meddlers, tasks Holder to move all known Birmingham protesters and Them Jews to back of historical bus.

    http://twitter.com/HULAgate

  • tantef

    I can’t wait till Captain Dr. Rusty arrives to treat the hula group for herpes stupix 2.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Ahhhh – rusty – tha’ be who be missin’ from me tale!.
    .
    Thank ye, tantef! I need t’ be workin’ iLIEnidiva in too, methinks…I should a’ least have th’ courtesy o’ waitin’ fer ‘em t’ show up tho’?
    .
    Arrgh!

  • southernbell49

    Thanks, Joe, for taking on the neoncons.

    I’m pretty disgusted that some Republicans would be so desperate to tarnish Obama in the US that they would endanger a very very fragile move for personal freedom in Iraq.

    But, I expect the MSM to dutifully trot out the GOP’s line of reasoning and in their usual “fair and balanced” way find talking heads that present both “sides” instead of highlight that most experts on Iran and more importantly most Iranis, want the US government to stay out of internal politics. Expressing concern for human right’s abuses is about as far as we want to go when it comes to criticing the current regime.

  • shahin1

    Neocons along with Israel want to start a war with Iran. Obama want to pursue “Policy of Appeasment” with mullahs. There is a third way to deal with Iran. the answer is on the streets of Tehran.
    United States should take the side of people not by words but by action. Today United States Government (Democrats and Republicans) have listed the main opposition of the Iranian regime (Not Mousavi) on the “State department Terror List”. European Union was forced to drop this charge after legal action by them (National Council of Resistance of Iran).

    Why can’t United States take the side of people instead of the regime. Or at least, don’t take any sides at all. Don’t call the people that have been fighting this regime for the past 30 years a “terrorist organization”.

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    How do you go from “Kill ‘em all!” to “We have to save ‘em!” so quickly? Does that level of cognitive dissonance hurt? You’d think they’d get whiplash, at least. Unless they’re bobble-heads.

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    Oh, and QH is the scourge – nay, a plauge – on rational thinking. He’s the foaming-at-the-mouth blog version of the neocons.

    Anyone heard from Cincy, lately? I miss his wit and wisdom.

  • Joe Bftsplk

    Hey, hellslittleangel-
    You got quoted by Sully — congrats!
    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/06/quote-for-the-day-iii-5.html

  • http://www.enewsreference.com eNews Reference

    Iranian news and media references (tv magazines radio and newspapers)… http://www.enewsreference.com

  • afguy

    Anyone heard from Cincy, lately? I miss his wit and wisdom.
    .
    He posted to a thread a couple of weeks ago here and I asked him about his absence.
    .
    Put in a nutshell, Cincy’s suffering from “cause burnout” with a liberal helping of feeling that he’s “beating his head against the wall” (his words).
    .
    I REALLY can’t say I blame him. Nothing like watching your newly-elected representatives abandon their campaign positions to give one that feeling.

  • spob

    Joe writes an infinite deal of nothing, more than anyone in all Swampland. His reasons are as two bits of chaff in two bushels of wheat. You shall seek all day ere you find them, and when you have them, they are not worth the search.

  • nathan7777

    @Hulagate:
    .
    So since people in Iran can make signs in English we automatically assume that means they are clamoring for US involvement? English is the closest thing the world has to a universal language. English on signs does not narrowly point the message towards one country (the US), it broadens the message for the entire world.
    .
    Also, what language do you see on this sign? Or these signs? I think out of all those pictures, only one sign had English on it. How does that constitute a cry for help from the United States?
    .
    And what are you going to do, Hulagate, when the US offers support to the Iranian protestors and they interpret that to mean we will support them militarily? What will you do when the Iranian government uses the US offer of support as pretext for unleashing the military on their people? Will you accept responsibility for all the deaths of innocent people if our offer of support gave the Iranian government the excuse they needed to slaughter the protestors? Will you commit the US to war over internal Iranian politics? Would you have accepted the same foreign military intervention on US soil during our race riots in the 90′s?
    .
    I assume you have a brain, Hulagate. Use it.

  • afguy

    I assume you have a brain, Hulagate. Use it.
    .
    Wrong assumption, nathan7777 . . . wrong assumption. Don’t expect login from the trolls. Therein lies madness.

  • afguy

    Sorry, “logic” not “login” (although you have to have a little logic to be able to login, I guess)

  • nathan7777

    @spob:
    .
    Care to refute or challenge anything Joe actually said in his column or are you going to continue to just run your mouth off like a hormonal teenager? Keep swinging at the air, spob; it’s quite entertaining.

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    Nathan, the usual approach to dealing with trolls like spob is to ignore them. They’re mindless ideologues – obviously – easily riled, and offer nothing but verbal vomit. Attempts to engage them simply encourage them to continue their abuse of the rest of us.

    When I see a post by spob, or QH, or Rusty, et al, I just jump over it without reading it. As we say on Slashdot, “Nothing of value was lost.”

  • nathan7777

    You shouldn’t ignore trolls either. Just never take the bait when they fire back with unintelligible idiocy.

  • nathan7777

    They aren’t trolls. QH’s twitter dumps are trolls. Trolls thrive on provocation and will post whatever incites the masses, often when they don’t even believe what they are posting. Trolls want conflict, nothing more. Spob and rusty, and QH actually believe what they post, and I feel duty bound to refute them. Spob’s comment that Joe is wrong is not a troll and neither was QH’s ridiculous assertion that a few English signs means the Iranian protestors want the US to get involved.

  • henqiguai

    re: nathan7777 Says: (Friday, June 19, 2009 at 2:56 pm )

    You shouldn’t ignore trolls either. Just never take the bait when they fire back with unintelligible idiocy.

    a.k.a. Just ignore the trolls…

  • bamadog76

    Who cares when a talking head gets something right or totally screws something up or mis quotes a world leader or the horror actually uses his own opinion as fact stop the presses a talking head uses opinion as fact !

    Every body needs to take their heads out their butt and realize no one party or ideological view has the truth sown up .

    The real tragedy is not the talking heads ,it’s We let Editors or Talking Heads on TV ,Radio and Newspapers and Magazines do are thinking for us.

    Quit thinking like sheep and think for your self’s and for heaven sakes do a little research for your self , because the moment you give over the ability to think for your self you have sown the seeds of your own imprisonment.

  • billiecat

    Hey! I see a movie about spob, hula and their ilk is out in theatres today:

    http://www.deadsnow.com/

  • http://fredtopeka.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/iran-and-neo-cons/ Iran and Neo-Cons « Petunias

    [...] Joe Klein and John Kerry have good take downs of the [...]

  • hughg16

    It’s like that episode of Seinfeld…just swap “Wolfowitz” or “Krauthammer” for “Costanza” and you have the basic formula: Anything These Guys Say To Do, Do The Opposite.

  • illinidiva

    Perhaps the reasonable Khamenei who Joe Klein consistently tells us is the real leader of Iran and the guy that Obama would be negotiating with instead of Ahmadinejad will calm the situation and bring everyone to their sense. I heard he spoke today at Friday prayers. sarc off//

    .

    Really wasn’t the fact that Khamenei was somehow more reasonable was one of the main points of those arguing for direct talks?? Well, considering that that “reasonable” guy backed an obviously fradulent election, threatened major violence against peaceful protesters, and endorsed Ahmadinejad’s foreign policy views (including Holocaust denial and nuking Israel out of existence), I’m going to not to quickly dismiss the evilll “neo-cons” views on Iran any more.

  • incandenzah

    spob, when quoting The Bard, it’s customary to use quotation marks (and perhaps cite your source). Just sayin’. Is that quote from “Merchant of Venice”?

  • incandenzah

    As William Shakespeare might say, “[Spob] speaks an infinite deal of nothing, more than any man in all [Swampland].”

  • stuartzechman

    This isn’t a liberal or Democratic activists’ blog, so spob’s expressions of rightist ideology isn’t trollery…it’s just rightist ideology.
    .
    Rightists aren’t trolls, unless they’re being deliberately provocative on blogs where the purpose isn’t the exchange of ideas.
    .
    Trollery is the deliberate disruption of honest discussion and debate, usually by tricking the participants into arguing meaninglessly amongst each other. It’s the deliberate sabotage of a forum, usually through surreptitious techniques.
    .
    Rightism != Trollery

  • spob

    Come on guys, if I gave away that it was from Merchant of Venice, it wouldn’t be as much fun.
    .
    Here are some questions:
    .
    1) What has been the reaction of the Iraqi government? The Iraqi people?
    .
    2) Are the Iranians inspired at all by Iraqi democracy (or progress toward democracy)?
    .
    3) What role is ethnicity and religion playing in Iran right now? Will disaffected minorities use this opportunity?

  • incandenzah

    You’re right, spob. It’s much more high-brow and fun than lifting worn-out ideas from Hot Air, at least.

  • http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/billet/70681 Commentary » Blog Archive » How Dare We

    [...] particularly unadulterated sample of this theme can be found in this column in Time, which another pundit approvingly cited as an exposé of the “ignorance and arrogance” [...]

  • sacredh

    This is what I hate about working daylights. A decent thread comes up, the trolls come out, the whole shebang gets hijacked and I miss the fun.

  • jcapan

    Good heavens, a rightist who reads the Bard!
    ~
    SZ said: “Doesn’t Fred Hiatt’s Washington Post bears the blame for publishing Krauthammer, Wolfowitz and Co’s ‘opinion posing as fact’?”
    ~
    Or the Phil. Inquirer for employing a war criminal? While I’d like to see JK play media critic, or at least give a shout out to Froom, the last sane man at Wa Po, NOT TODAY b/c I have to give him capital KUDOS for the 4th paragraph above. In particular: “The U.S. has had, in fact, a notably disgraceful history of intervening in Iranian affairs. There was the CIA involvement in the overthrow of the Mossadegh government in 1953, which Obama spoke about in his Cairo speech. There was the U.S. support for the Shah, who ran a regime every bit as repressive and arguably more brutal than the Mullahs.”
    ~
    As P-luk said, who is this bloke!? I’ll have to go sit on my pinko sofa and contemplate this earth-shattering rent in the fabric of reality. He still may not post/rebut progressive voices (god knows how many times I’ve seen him take on the Kraut), but with posts like this I’ve got nothing.

  • sacredh

    jcapan: We’ve still got the escapee from rehab. I just hope she didn’t have to do anything really morally reprehensible to get out. Maybe I do.

  • http://redclayreport.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/another-nail-in-corporate-journalisms-coffin/ Another Nail in Corporate Journalism’s Coffin « The Red Clay Report

    [...] Glen Greenwald, The Washington Note’s Steve Clemons, Joe Klein from Time and Hot Air’s Ed Morrissey have more detailed pieces, if you care to read on. Possibly [...]

  • jcapan

    Yeah, Sacred, I noticed she’s back. I always start at the bottom of the Swamp and work my way up. Waking up at 5pm EST, obviously most of my time here is spent commenting on dead threads.
    ~
    Anyway, re: Amy, I really think you’re kinda smitten!

  • jcapan
  • sacredh

    jcapan: Not smitten, just a troll like spob says I am. I have to admit, I do like to see good girls go bad.

  • http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/american-politics/51545-dana-protest-killer.html#post649978 Dana the protest killer?

    [...] is a fool- joe klein frisks him thoroughly here. There Will BeBlood – Swampland – TIME.com __________________ The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But [...]

  • shaldi

    Another oblivious posting by the Walter Durranty of the age, Joe Klein. Neo-cons and colonialism; can’t you invent two other boogeymen to explain Arab dysfunction? Such as, oh I don’t know, Nasserism, Pan-Arabism or Baathism? Marxist economies or brutal suppression? Nah…such would require intellectual honesty, a commodity in short supply on this drivel-laden site. Joe Klein: A giant of moral and intellectual vapidity who continues, somehow, to write for the unreadable fishwrap that is TIME, as it fades into oblivion and spirals down into its own pit of irrelevance.

    Neo-con? If such means that one stands for free-market economies and is strident in defense of liberty, I will wear such a badge proudly.

    Soon, FormerlyJames and OrlConvict will add their posts denouncing such as heresy and praising CheObama to the heavens. The Joe Kleins of the world elected this naive, buffoon of a chief executive, his bumbling second-in-command and the sycophantic Peolosi/Dodd/Reid/Frank/Schumer/Hastings/Boxer congress.

    So you live with the results and the shame. Socialists and appeasers all. Praise Obama-Chamberlain all you like, time will tell.

    I will take Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney any day.

    Enjoy and good luck. And, when your utopian dreams and social engineering fails once again, this time how about looking inward for the question of why.

    And then, move out of the way and let the adults in to clean up your mess.

    P.S. Joe…the front that is Iraq is stabilized and we have a fledgling constitutional government where there once was none. We won this front, although the war remains to be fought and won on many fronts. See any connection between Iran and Iraq? No? Funny, neither does Mr. Obama because to admit such would be to admit that he was (heavens!)….wrong.

    Get used to that by the way.

    Joe Klein front and center….the current administration needs its butt kissed….you or any number of your “journalist” friends hop to….chop, chop Joe.

  • talldave2

    So, the Iranians are “well-educated, sophisticated people” who think we gave Iraq chemical weapons and blame us for a war in which we gave Iraq no weapons (virtually all weapons used in the Iran-Iraq war came from Russia, France, and Germany — whom apparently they don’t blame at all). Also, these brilliant Iranians who believe crazy conspiracy theories don’t like us because of “neocolonialism,” I guess because it’s hard to spell in Farsi or something.

    Furthermore, they found their gov’t — which they are in open rebellion against, right now — being labelled as part of an Axis of Evil “insulting,” because being the foremost state sponsor of terrorism isn’t really evil, which you understand when you’re so well-educated and sophisticated.

    Oh, and Ahmadinejad may have won the election.

    Seriously, you get paid for this drivel? They should give your job to Krauthammer. He runs better than you write.

  • 53_3

    I see that among the five right wing knard suckers, not one has yet served up a single relevant fact.
    .
    And for an “oblivious” post, the 124 comments certainly put the point on that idea, doesn’t it, shaldi.
    .
    Dumber’n a warm rock on a windowsill…

  • 53_3

    make that six…

  • talldave2

    Also, the protesters may fail anyway, and we don’t want to look bad for not supporting them enough like in Hungary 1956 or Iraq 1991, so its better they just go it on their own, which gives them a better chance anyway.

    I mean, it’s not like tanks and guns are any match for unarmed protesters, right? That guy with the shopping bags who stood in front of the tanks at Tiananmen Square, he’s like President of New China now, right?

    This concludes our tour of the fever swamps. Please ignore that man behind the curtain, his industry is collapsing anyway.

  • talldave2

    Oh wait, I missed the best part:

    “have great credibility with the Iranian people: the U.S. was at it again, trying to foment a revolution to overthrow the duly elected government of Iran.”

    At this point the post has assumed a critical mass of stupidity that sucks all common sense into a vortex of anti-Americanism where the normal rules of logic and reason no longer apply.

    Let’s sum up the column in one sentence: Iranians are smart and sophisticated therefore they hate America and will believe any awful thing they are told about America by unelected tyrants no matter how stupid it is.

    Suddenly it’s clear what has happened here: Joe Klein has confused the Iranian people with lefty commenters here.

  • yutsano

    You counted way too soon there Fitty.

  • http://deanesmay.com/2009/06/19/red-spilling-over-green/ Red Spilling Over Green

    [...] Joe Klein says the Iranian people are brainwashed morons who hate us because they think we gave Iraq WMD and [...]

  • talldave2

    “Name one.”

    Amir Fakhravar.

    http://spectator.org/archives/2009/06/19/silence-isnt-golden?utm_medium=email&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_content=663312817&utm_campaign=Special+Report+-+Iran+_+hutkud&utm_term=Read+more+

    The theory is that if President Obama publicly encourages those taking to the streets in Iran, it will only backfire by allowing the Islamic regime to paint protesters as tools of America. As Obama himself put it, “sometimes the United States can be a handy political football…”

    But Amir Fakhravar says this approach is dead wrong. And he speaks with authority. Jailed and tortured in Iran for advocating democracy and speaking out against the Iranian government, Fakhravar in 2006 fled for the U.S., where he currently lives in exile while maintaining close ties to the reform movement in Iran.

    Contrary to most reports in the American press, he said the demonstrators he is in contact with in Iran are desperate for Obama to make a forceful statement reassuring them that he stands with those who are striving for freedom.

  • talldave2

    See, some of have this crazy theory that the Iranians really ARE “smart and sophisticated” and don’t believe what the regime tells them about us, and might actually want true democracy and freedom.

  • http://nemijones.wordpress.com/2009/06/20/there-will-be%c2%a0blood-swampland-%e2%80%93-time-com/ There Will Be Blood – Swampland – TIME.com « Nemi Jones

    [...] There Will Be Blood – Swampland – TIME.com There Will Be Blood – Swampland – TIME.com. [...]

  • http://justabovesunset.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/regarding-the-proper-natural-disposition/ Regarding the Proper Natural Disposition « Just Above Sunset

    [...] Time, Joe Klein has a few things to say about that, noting that Krauthammer says this – “The demonstrators are fighting on their own, but they [...]

  • bullsmith

    talldave2 says: “Furthermore, they found their gov’t — which they are in open rebellion against, right now — being labelled as part of an Axis of Evil “insulting,”

    HAHAHAHAHAHA. Dave you won’t find it insulting if I call you evil, right, because you’re proud to defend torture just like assume Iranians proudly defend terrorism? How about if I just call you an immoral monster? Or an idiot? What are you going to get all “insulted”?

    Oh well, you may be dumber than molasses, but you’re highly entertaining. And at least you’re tall.

  • 53_3

    yutsano:
    .
    Damn. You’re right. I want to make one exception though:
    .
    Apollyon07 is not included. He thinks and makes sense when he discusses issues. The rest can take piratewenches’ visions and run with it…

  • cfukara

    (The White House spokesman) Gibbs said: “He (Obama) believes that those who wish to have their voices heard should be able to do that without fear of violence.” Gibbs said the administration has been clear that it condemns any violence … caused by the government. Gibbs also referred to the protests as `extraordinary` and called the demonstrators `courageous’.
    http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=31955

    .

    When the world watches:
    “President Obama warned Iran today that the “world is watching” after the country’s supreme leader told anti-government protesters that they were inviting violence if their massive protests … continued .. “
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7878713

    .

    What id Iran to do? A land for the Iranian government where extraordinary, courageous protestors live in fear of violence.
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0407-07.htm

    .

  • blamn

    I’m glad we have such insightful commissars like Joe Klein around in times of crisis. He knows just how much happiness and freedom people need. Ordinary people tend to be greedy about freedom and happiness; thank God, we’ve got Joe on hand to set them straight.

  • cfukara

    In case you missed the gist of the condemnation of Iran by the world of democratic nations – the free world (the imperial world) – here is the gist:

    .

    Israel insist that demonstrators should be free to protest without fear of violence, arrests, risk to limb or death.
    And Charles Krauthammer, Paul Wolfowitz and Bill Kristol (and AIPAC) may propose that ANY government that does otherwise is illegitimate and thus MUST be a target for righteous “regime change” by the civilized world:
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052273.html
    http://palsolidarity.org/2009/05/6489

    .

    Again UK, Germany and France insist: Demonstrators MUST be free to protest without fear of violence and arrests and that the world must be ready and willing to act against the government that commit the violence-inflicting-upon-nice-protesters crime.
    ” .. An anti-war demonstration … turned violent this morning when .. police opened fire with .. grenades, tear gas and other …. weapons when protesters .. refused an order to disperse.”
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0407-07.htm
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7878713

    .

    Need USA (of the moral and ethical high ground) repeat this?
    Free People in a democratic country must be free to protest and even break things, disrupt traffic and block public roads – without fear of violence and reprisals from any legitimate government. The USA’s House of Representatives voted almost unanimously to condemn such government’s crackdown on demonstrators:
    ” … Police in riot gear fired tear gas clashed with demonstrators late Monday and arrested at least 50 protesters … Authorities have deployed riot police and secret service officers ..and also set up temporary jail cells to detain unruly protesters. ”
    http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2008-08/2008-08-26-voa40.cfm

  • 53_3

    “Ordinary people tend to be greedy about freedom and happiness; thank God, we’ve got Joe on hand to set them straight.”
    .
    It might be worth reminding you and others that Iran is not part of the United States. Either you got lost, blamn, at the Iraq/Pakistan border when John McCain pointed there, or you sorely need a private lesson in US geography.

  • cfukara

    blamn Says: I’m glad we have such insightful commissars

    Ouch!

    ?

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    More great news for slackers, Naval careers now as vetted as book tours on Oprah, clergy in Boston, Treasury today, New York Times last week:

    http://ow.ly/fmxy

  • http://executivewatch.net/2009/06/21/weekly-web-watch-061509-%e2%80%93-062109/ Weekly Web Watch 06/15/09 – 06/21/09 « EXECUTIVE WATCH

    [...] repeat of the early, confused response to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Joe Klein responds to them both, complete with his own preferred historical reasoning.  Alex Knapp seconds him. Thomas Joscelyn [...]

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