The Guantanamo Mess–Is it Obama’s Fault?

I can see the campaign slogan in 2012 already, this time we are serious when we talk about change, honestly.

Do me a favor. While you’re working on your print column, could you please ream Harry Reid a new a$$hole?
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I’m also wondering your opinion the notion that Obama’s problem as that he’s too dependent on the permanent fixtures within the intelligence agencies and is responding to pushback against his initiatives by simply backing away rather than fighting.

How quickly we forget.
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The last thing congressional Democrats want is Obama talking over their heads … again.
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And Jane Harman is the last person I’d be asking which way the wind is blowing.

Somewhere in Texas George W. Bush is laughing.

Can we do away with the buzz term “asymmetric warfare?” Gen. Rupert Smith rightly shot it down as:

“Labeling wars as asymmetric is to me something of a euphemism to avoid acknowledging that my opponent is not playing to my strengths and I am not winning.”

…saying that Obama should have addressed all the various asymmetrical warfare issues–military commissions, Guantanamo, the torture photos, the need for a full accounting of the Bush Administration horrors–in one big speech
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Yes, because these problems are all so easy to solve, and the Dem caucus is being so helpful. Bush/Cheney spent 8 years tying a Gordian knot that would have stymied Alexander. This is going to take time to pull apart, and there is no reason why the Dem Caucus couldn’t have grown a pair instead of being a bunch of WATBs. That they couldn’t figure out how to respond to the stoopid repuglican talking points reflects badly only on them. They should just read the Washington Monthly every morning and afternoon to get tips on what the repugs are doing and how to talk about it. Heeeere’s Steve: MAYBE DURBIN READS POLITICAL ANIMAL…
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Yesterday, I argued that if congressional Democrats were smart, they’d turn the Guantanamo Bay issue around and go on the offensive. They might even try to look at this the way Republicans would.
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If the situations were reversed, and Dems resisted a Bush plan to bring Gitmo detainees onto U.S. soil, I suggested this would be the talking point: “If Democrats have proof that the nation’s prisons are incapable of housing 241 suspected bad guys, or have evidence that these guards who protect us from the bad guys are untrustworthy, they should offer it. Otherwise, they should apologize to the wardens, guards, and security teams, who do important work day in and day out, and who’ve just been insulted.”
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A few hours later, Senate Minority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) was on the Senate floor, responding . . .

But it’s late–and, I suspect, that the Republicans will continue to play the fear card and the Congressional Democrats will continue to squirm, no matter what Obama does.
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Yeah, the Senate Dems are just making excuses for their pathetic cowardice.

Joe Klein:
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his moderate course?
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Because moderation in the restructuring of the Bush-Cheney security state is obviously the way to go? Or because moderation for its own sake is the Village ideological holy grail?
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Congressional Democrats will continue to squirm, no matter what Obama does
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Who’s been doing the squirming in the face of rightist/security state bureaucrat attacks again? Isn’t Obama doing precisely that?
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…and aren’t you squirming as well, Joe Klein?
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(apologies for re-posting Tomorrow link again, Commenters, I don’t think that Joe has seen it)

Greg Sargent:
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So I asked Reid spokesperson Jim Manley if this meant Reid was completely ruling out any future support for this, should Obama’s plan call for it. Manley emailed:

At this time, he opposes transferring detainees to American prisons. If the administration proposes a plan that recommends the transfer of some detainees to American prisons, he will evaluate it carefully and make a judgment at that time. He will always strongly oppose the release of any terrorists onto American streets.
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This, after having a day to reconsider. As sgw said in the comments: “Can you say majority leader Dick Durbin? I can!”

here’s the link that’s missing from Joe’s update:
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http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/05/feinstein-says-california-prisons-can-hold-gitmo-prisoners.php

wvng:
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Thanks for the link.
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He will always strongly oppose the release of any terrorists onto American streets.
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Does Jim Manley listen to Rush on his drive to work, so that he’s quaking and shivering with fear by the time he arrives at his office?
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This sort of rhetorical capitulation is unbelievable in 2009. I’m not even certain that it’s rhetorical. Perhaps Senator Reid and his staff truly do live in bed sheet-pulled-over-face terror, just like the scaredy-pants rightists do.
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It shouldn’t be, but this is shocking.

Thanks for the link, Dirks.

The Guantanamo Mess–Is it Obama’s Fault?
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Please uncrap that bed Mr President.

Please uncrap that bed Mr President.
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…Preferably not by crapping the bed at Bagram, sir.

Greenwald on Obama last week:
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Monday – Obama administration’s letter to Britian threatening to cut off intelligence-sharing if British courts reveal the details of how we tortured British resident Binyam Mohamed;
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Tuesday – Promoted to military commander in Afghanistan Gen. Stanley McChyrstal, who was deeply involved in some of the worst abuses of the Bush era;
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Wednesday – Announced he was reversing himself and would try to conceal photographic evidence showing widespread detainee abuse — despite the rulings from two separate courts (four federal judges unanimously) that the law compels their disclosure;
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Friday – Unveiled his plan to preserve a modified system of military commissions for trying Guantanamo detainees, rather than using our extant-judicial processes for doing so.

Joe Klein: Obama “will make the case for his moderate course on these issues in his ‘Guantanamo’ speech tomorrow.” Obama and “moderate course” in the same sentence? ROTFLMAO! No doubt, loon Klein thinks that the six al Qaeda associates in the U.S. Senate who voted to fund Obama’s closing of the al Qaeda terrorist and illegal enemy combatant detention facility at Guantanamo are “moderates”.

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BTW, when will Klein be providing evidence for his conspiracy theory alleging that in 2003 Donald Rumsfeld announced that David McKiernan would never get another command because Klein alleges that Rumsfeld got upset because Klein alleges that McKiernan took a nap in the presence of Rumsfeld? Also, how does Klein explain that, contrary to the Klein conspiracy theory, McKiernan was promoted to General and took command of U.S. Army Europe after the Klein-alleged 2003 Rumsfeld announcment after the Klein-alleged 2003 nap by McKiernan? Crickets?

Jane Harman? Are you kidding? What a crock of s*%t! I’m so sick of these mealy mouth Democrats looking to the President for every freakin’ thing! Every time the Republicans say boo, they are looking to Daddy Obama to protect them. My God, I cannot stand these people. You know what have been really great. Since everybody has been calling for the closure of Gitmo since Bush was still in office, the Dems, could have, I don’t know, done some research and come up with several viable plans to deal with the issue and presented them to the President since they knew it was his intent to close Gitmo as well. And how about, once the Republicans started spewing their ridiculous talking points, the Dems could have, hmmm, what’s is it called?, effectively rebutted them with things like facts, and evidence. You know, stuff that informed adults usually do.

Have they been living under a rock? Was it a surprise to them that since we have been begging on bended knee for other countries to take in detainees on their own soil, we may actually have to take some in as well? Do these people even know the number and location of the terrorists that we already detain on our own soil? Have they done their research about the security challenges it has caused? Do they know anything other than they want the Republicans to stop saying mean things about them?

Good grief. I can’t believe that these people can authorize waging two different wars without much of an afterthought, but when it comes to detaining a group of thugs, they are cowering under their couch.

Our beloved senate majority leader:
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REID: I’m saying that the United States Senate, Democrats and Republicans, do not want terrorists to be released in the United States. That’s very clear.
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QUESTION: No one’s talking about releasing them. We’re talking about putting them in prison somewhere in the United States.
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REID: Can’t put them in prison unless you release them.
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QUESTION: Sir, are you going to clarify that a little bit? …
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REID: I can’t make it any more clear than the statement I have given to you. We will never allow terrorists to be released in the United States.

As Jon Stewart pointed out last night, the guy who calmly discussed sucking out someone’s brain and eating a bit of it disturbs me far more than anyone in GTMO. The Repubs act as though they will all be sent to Kansas and made greeters in WalMarts.

queencersei Says:
Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 4:32 pm
“Somewhere in Texas George W. Bush is laughing.”
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And, he is saying “they can’t say this is George W. Bush’s problem anymore!”

[...] 8:10 PM — In Time Magazine’s Swampland Blog, Joe Klein discusses how much of the blame President Obama has to bear in this cluster-diddle.  [...]

Ivy:
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That would be an improvement at the WalMart near here. Couldn’t do much more damage than the Bentonville Blight already imposes.

[...] Joe Klein in the Swampland. [...]

Joe, would appreciate your thoughts on Iran’s missile launch earlier. Is it the end of the world, or just internal politics?

fata$$ liberal weenie Joe Klein..it is a shame u r no longer considered an objective journalist and now r nothing more than a Kos Klown who reads TPM..seriously..ur career is gone..I suppose u will balance this by referencing newsbusters or the media research center..It is a shame..I have friends in the networks that say u have turned into a liberal shill and r no longer considered a journalist..Ur other liberal weenie Mathews may have u on..haha

LOL Cliff you just made me spit out my pepsi.

Cliff, ilikechips could not pass the Turing Test.
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So it’s probably either John Boehner or Michele Bachmann.
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And how about, once the Republicans started spewing their ridiculous talking points, the Dems could have, hmmm, what’s is it called?, effectively rebutted them with things like facts, and evidence. You know, stuff that informed adults usually do.
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Obama backed himself (and the Dems) into a corner with his “bipartisan” schtick months ago, and now we’re seeing the impact. Not only do the Democrats lack a coherent and consistent message, any effort to do “message control” immediately results in attacks on Democratic “partisanship” from the GOP and its media sockpuppets.
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ilikechips-Are you texting your comments. Please stop.
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By the way the democrats in this case are looking out for one thing. Their own a*ses. They fear republican attack ads saying they voted to release terrorist into on American streets much more than Obama’s popularity. Completely missing the point that they are allowing the minority party to control and frame the debate and the fact that the republicans will run attacks ads any friggin way painting as soft on terror.

The kurious “kunundrum” is How will Obambi wrestle with the big snake, when he doesn’t have any money to shut it all down?
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Or, perhaps Obambi will eventually come under this conundrum as events un-fold in the whole Gitmo and “torture” affair moves forward endlessly and without resolution.
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How will Obambi answer this?
“A dead man is found in a locked room, hanging from the ceiling 4 ft. above the floor. The room is completely empty, except for a puddle of water below him. How did he die?”
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Answer he can’t use: “Blame Bush and Cheney”; “Blame it on the CIA”; “Blame Nancy Pelosi for knowing, but not telling the truth”; “Finally un-veil the startling truth that all libtards believe that Area-51 is full of UFO’s and Aliens, and THEY DID IT!”
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Go here to find your answer—–>
http://www.riddlenut.com/show.php?defaultpager_current=1&defaultpager_next=1
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Enjoy!

I do not see why people can’t simply explain the problem Obama is facing. There are some people, not many in my opinion, in Guantanamo who actually participated in terrorist acts, and need to be locked up. There are also people, a larger group, in my opinion who, like al Qutb, did not commit terrorist acts, have been held for no good reason, tortured, and now pose a threat.
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The former group is a big problem because, the detainees having been tortured, the cases against them may not hold up in any court that operates in any kind of reasonably just way under American jurisprudence. Releasing them, which is all that really can be done legally because of the actions taken under Cheney and his contracted torturers attempt to elicit political cover for their lies to the world, is politically unacceptable. I don’t actually think there is a whole lot of danger to the country from a few dozen individuals. The sensible thing to do is release them, monitor them and recognize that the US is much too large and powerful an entity to be threatened in any serious way by, at most, a few dozen stateless actors.
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But between the Village media and shrieking underpants wetting “conservatives,” the prospect of the release of KSM is just too difficult to contemplate. Moreover, the lawbreaking that took place while these people were tortured will have to have repercussions if there is any kind of trial. So they are stalling. There is no good path out. And all the paths have, ultimately, Cheney and Rumsfeld in the dock. This is not hard to understand nor is it hard to write about. But it entails not wailing about Democratic complicity in activities that variously didn’t take place, didn’t amount to torture or kept the nation safe, but rather stating clearly that laws were broken, treaties abrogated, American values trashed for purely political purposes.
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It is clear the Village won’t do this without a lot more pressure.
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The second larger group is even more problematic because they will definitely walk out of a trial free–they may not even be able to be charged.
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But all Obama can do is face reality–that these guys are gonna walk–and use that to make the US safer by engaging in foreign policies that defuse rather than enhance tensions.

I thought the Democrats are so willingly to close Guantanamo. Why the back pedalling now on this issue? C’mon now you all want to close this illegal detention centre then you’all should show resolve and help the President solve this problem. Not when you start agreeing with him and then …oh!…oh! I cannot put these “terrorist detainees” in our backyards. You guys do not want Guantanamo and do not want these terrorists in your backyards…where else you want to detain these detainees? In Europe? Forget it…only perhaps 8 will be accepted.
Senators, please grow up!, YOU HAVE TO KEEP THESE PEOPLE IN PRISON AFTER THEIR TRIALS OTHERWISE THEY ARE GOING TO RETURN TO HAUNT YOU’ALL.

[...] Barack Obama’s plan to close Guantanamo and that could be the president’s fault, writes Time’s Joe Klein: “Over at TPM, Brian Beutler is reporting that part of the problem has been [...]

First of all it will never be the President’s fault and you know why because he never built it in the first place. Bush, Chenney,…et al created and built Gitmo.

The Clinton Administration did not focus on the terrorism issue in the 90s because they wanted to preserve the peace process in the Middle East and did not want to anger the Arabs…

Obama is now trying hard to correct all these misperceptions and I feel sorry for him to amend so many errors the past administrations had created. But nobody ever thought it will be a disaster because everything felt correct…then… The Peace Process was important to build confidence and relations with the hardcore Arab states like Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, etc.

From the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, nobody squealed that Gitmo was bad,…especially in Congress and everybody thought then its important to “punish” these perpetrators with or without the full extent of the law because these combatants breached and embarassed our fortified national security.

How can the most powerful nation of the world be such a complacent in our national security and brought down one of the world’s icon (the Twin Towers) and rampaged the Pentagon with a “civilian” aircraft! Where are the Armed Forces, the FBI, the NSA,…etc. What about the technology that protects us?

Again as I said when one is ANGRY, emotions took hold instead of our head. BUT WE ARE ONLY HUMANS.

First of all it will never be the President’s fault and you know why because he never built it in the first place. Bush, Chenney,…et al created and built Gitmo.

The Clinton Administration did not focus on the terrorism issue in the 90s because they wanted to preserve the peace process in the Middle East and did not want to anger the Arabs…

Obama is now trying hard to correct all these misperceptions and I feel sorry for him to amend so many errors the past administrations had created. But nobody ever thought it will be a disaster because everything felt correct…then… The Peace Process was important to build confidence and relations with the hardcore Arab states like Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, etc.

From the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, nobody squealed that Gitmo was bad,…especially in Congress and everybody thought then its important to “punish” these perpetrators with or without the full extent of the law because these combatants breached and embarassed our fortified national security.

How can the most powerful nation of the world be such a complacent in our national security and brought down one of the world’s icon (the Twin Towers) and rampaged the Pentagon with a “civilian” aircraft! Where are the Armed Forces, the FBI, the NSA,…etc. What about the technology that protects us?

Again as I said when one is ANGRY, emotions took hold instead of our headS. BUT WE ARE ONLY HUMANS.