Pelosi’s Probably Right

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has had a tough week — much of it her own making. But in looking at the substance of the accusations, it increasingly looks like she was right. Porter Goss was careful to parse his words in the conditional future tense when talking about what, exactly, he and Pelosi were briefed on in September 2002:

Today, I am slack-jawed to read that members claim to have not understood that the techniques on which they were briefed were to actually be employed; or that specific techniques such as “waterboarding” were never mentioned.

And Senator Richard Shelby also carefully avoided saying he’d been briefed on EITs that had already been used, saying only that he’d been told about the techniques. And “purported” isn’t exactly a strong word – it’s a synonym of suggested or claimed. From his statement: 

As Vice Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in 2002, Senator Shelby was briefed by the CIA on the Agency’s interrogation program and the existence of Enhanced Interrogation Techniques (EITs). To his recollection, not only did the CIA briefers provide what was purported to be a full account of the techniques, they also described the need for these techniques and the value of the information being obtained from terrorists during questioning.

Bob Graham, who was theoretically in the room with Shelby, says he has no recollection of the meeting at all – this from a man who famously details his every waking minute. Perhaps the most astonishing response has been from the CIA Director Leon Panetta, who basically said: Don’t trust our records. Which begs the question: what other issues have they kept questionable records on?

But all of this has been lost in the GOP sturm und drang, led, by – of all people – Pete Hoekstra and Newt Gingrich. Yes, Pelosi needs a serious lesson in public relations but it increasing looks like there’s nothing wrong with her memory.

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  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    I hope Pelosi takes serious note of the fact that people who she has been protecting took the first opportunity they had to try and bury her.

  • Art Pepper

    In the immortal words of Gomer Pyle: Well, surprise, surprise, surprise!

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Nice to see somebody in the media acknowledge this like 3 days late. Of course you still left our David Obey challenging the CIA’s assertion that a staffer attended a meeting that he was kicked out of but hey baby steps right?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    It would nice if once in a while, the detective work necessary to parse mealy-mouthed lawyerspeak would happen at the beginning of the life cycle of a non-story instead of waiting till the thing had been rolling for a full week.
    .
    The story was never about Nancy Pelosi. The story is about Addington, Baybee, Yoo and Cheney.
    .
    And as an adiitional clue. Any sentence that leads off with “How could she possibly suggest that…..” should immediately set off every BS detector in the building.

  • stuartzechman

    Jay Newton-Small:
    .
    Pelosi’s Probably Right
    .
    …and this controversy’s probably completely meaningless.

  • rmrd

    The wingnuts got the MSM to go on a feeding frenzy against Pelosi. Instead of being journalists and questioning the reasons each party, Pelosi and the CIA, would have or shading the truth, the burden was placed on Pelosi to defend herself.
    .
    Now, we get the story that the CIA may indeed have been the one at fault. The situation reminds us why the press is simply not trusted to be a conduit of truthful information. Wingnuts cn get the press to chase after any shiny ball. The press has learned nothing from the poor performance that it collectively demonstrated in the run up to the war.
    .
    The press failed to place emphasis on the fact that Hoekstra himself had accused the CIA of lying.

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/hoekstra_its_wrong_to_call_cia_liars_–_except_whe.php

  • incandenzah

    Paul Dirks, at least she finally got there. So many still haven’t. But you’re right — if she had even read comments here a few days back, she could have had a (dead-tree media) scoop. But, alas, JNS does not engage the incoherent rabble.

  • incandenzah

    That’s “engage with,” naturally.

    But “engage” alone works, too.

  • davidwaters1

    I really can’t see how torture will help our image abroad and decrease security threats. I think that the US should pursue a strategy with more soft power including more efficient foreign aid. This will encourage people in less-than-stable areas to be productive instead of radicals, it will increase security, and it will alleviate needless suffering. The Borgen Project has good info on the estimated cost of ending global poverty:

    $30 billion: Annual shortfall to end world hunger.

    $550 billion: U.S. Defense budget.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla
  • queencersei

    So is the MSM planning on trumpeting her vindication as loudly and widely as they did with the story that she supposedly lied? And what about that fact that this has all been a sideshow at best anyway? The real story is who decided that torturing suspects was okay in the first place and created a legal framework in which to do it.

  • Art Pepper

    incandenzah: When it’s in the comments, it’s “venting.”

  • incandenzah

    Art — Ah! I see now. Thanks for the translation.

  • spob

    Uhhhhhhhh, didn’t her story change? That pretty much seals her prevarication. And she didn’t speak up at all about EITs.

  • bbpdx

    But the CIA would NEVER lie to Congress or the American people! It’s just unthinkable!

  • shepherdwong

    Thanks for correcting the record, JNS but really?!:
    .
    “Perhaps the most astonishing response has been from the CIA Director Leon Panetta, who basically said: Don’t trust our records. Which begs the question: what other issues have they kept questionable records on?”
    .
    You’re very young aren’t you? It’s the CIA. They don’t do anything you can “trust” except deceive. That’s their business.

  • bitterpill8

    JNS: I suggest a course of action: ask Newt Gingrich, Loudmouth Scarborough and the Feckless Mika if they have any comment to make on your take. These three loudmouths, aided by Mike Barnicle and assorted “journalists” pushed this bilge for days. Why not call Joe Scarborough and ask him for a comment?

  • http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/pelosis-probably-right/ "Pelosi’s probably right" « Later On

    [...] in Bush Administration, Congress, Daily life at 2:46 pm by LeisureGuy Jay Newton-Small writes in Swampland: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has had a tough week — much of it her own making. But in looking at [...]

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Many reporters say that they should collect soundbites from both sides on an issue, throw in some speculation and innuendo, and shy away from finding out about the truth of the matter. Some critics charge that this is actually a f*cking terrible way to accurately inform anyone about anything.
    -
    It’s a controversy! I guess we have to hear out both sides.

  • rustyreturns

    It is still pretty simple. Produce the damn documents, put them up on the “transparency” website we’ve heard so much about and the truth shall not be hidden.
    .
    They are all running like rats into the ocean to try to hide. They hide because none of them, Republicans or Democrats have the cajones to come out with it honestly to the American public. They are all protecting the individual hides and not committing one way or another on this issue.
    .
    What has happened to plain truth in politics? What has happened to all of the media hypes, and why are they not demanding to see it all spread out on the table? Everyone is in bed with each other and everyone is out to save their own skin.

  • pippapippa

    That’s interesting about what Panetta said. Of course, as Arlen Specter points out, the CIA hasn’t been known for honesty, ever. And the Republicans sure never believed them when it was about the need to keep secret agents secret, did they?

  • sacredh

    So Panetta is saying “don’t trust our records”? Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the people in the CIA write their records? What am I missing here?

  • http://politicsorpoppycock.com/2009/05/20/7121/ Politics or Poppycock

    [...] Pelosi’s Probably Right [...]

  • flacidcasual

    Rusty, it’s not simple, because any information provided as part of such a security briefing is going to be classified, so Pelosi can’t present it, regardless of whether her notes vindicate her or not. I happily concede that Pelosi was foolish to make such statement about the accuracy of her briefing, but neither the CIA or Pelosi can present evidence to support their cases. So we’re all left interpreting rhetorical subtleties of the other people involved in these briefings in order to try and arrive at the real story.

  • FlownOver

    Even if the rest of the media (thanks, J N-S) were ever to get around to focusing the substance of the issue, and (more unlikely) give it the same level of hype devoted to the manufactured controversy, the best that could be said is that days of energy and time have been diverted from addressing the freaking torture itself!

  • Cliff

    They hide because none of them, Republicans or Democrats have the cajones to come out with it honestly to the American public. They are all protecting the individual hides and not committing one way or another on this issue.
    .
    Man, that’s like, three days in a row where rusty has said something reasonable people can agree with.

  • ilikechips

    JNS//gotta laugh at your ridiculous liberal bias..sorry..u look like an ass defending ur fellow libtards…I know u were defending Bush when u disagreed…..not…I am embaressed for u at ur liberal bias…go work for Kos or NBC

  • jcapan

    Can I get a “hear hear”!?
    ~
    “Many reporters say that they should collect soundbites from both sides on an issue, throw in some speculation and innuendo, and shy away from finding out about the truth of the matter. Some critics charge that this is actually a f*cking terrible way to accurately inform anyone about anything.”
    ~
    El Vez’ spot-on observation
    +
    Froomkin’s view of senate dems: “terrified and incoherent bunch of mewling babies”
    +
    Obama’s record/reluctance to throw his pol-cap around (thus far)
    _______________________________________________________

    =
    Despair

  • FlownOver

    Tough to take seriously anyone who can’t be bothered to spell out the words “you” and “your.”

  • juniusredivivus

    How the mighty have fallen. Unless my eyes deceived me, it was a certain JNS who wrote a particularly sanctimonious column in some hack publication denouncing Pelosi for treating evidence as “fungible”. When do we get the apology, Newton-Small?

  • pafro

    Pete Hoekstra famously lied to your boy Joe Klein during the FISA revision fiasco. Remember his “I have neither the time nor the education to decide who is right, blah, blah, blah” tirade that he went on after he asked Hoekstra what the bill siad instead of reading the bill? And Newt Gingrich is the sort of guy who sleeps with his secretaries and gives his wife divorce papers while she is in the hospital for cancer treatment.
    And your loser journo buddies were judging their opinions against Nancy Pelosi’s? Why do we go through this nonsense over and over again?

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    What’s infuriating about all this is that Panetta’s original memo was filled with qualifiers and evasive language. It never said Pelosi was not telling the truth.

  • hwickline

    As others have said, I think the problem is less with Pelosi’s PR operation and more with DC journalists not taking the time to sort through what actually happened in their rush to get their juicy, Republican-supplied storyline out. The internet-supplied alternative channels, where we can read about Hoekstra’s hyprocrisy, for example, are great. But wouldn’t it be nice if the supposed professionals working for major newspapers and networks didn’t subject us to a week’s worth of hyperventilating about this? And taken a moment to consider that the architects of the program might be a tad more important to the story than the powerless minority leader?

  • spob

    guys, she said that the CIA misled her . . . . is that true?

  • mrtoads

    Ah! I see! It was all Pelosi’s fault! She had the gall to look suspicious when she was lying! (I mean, actually telling the truth, maybe, probably)..
    There, in a nutshell, is why the newspapers and magazines are turning into red-ink fluff sheets. I’ve read 2 weblogs just this morning where the posters actually did the unthinkable – call up people involved for comment, dig into the statements, try to get confirmation, and put the statements in context. I’m old – I remember when that was something that “journalists” did.

  • Art Pepper

    I’m just amazed that the past doesn’t seem to exist for the media. Did they all just teleport in from a Bizarro parallel universe, where the CIA is the paragon of honesty, integrity, competence, and the one reliable beacon of American values?

  • http://teakdoor.com/us-domestic-issues/50640-nancy-pelosi-now-in-row-cia.html#post1060793 Nancy Pelosi now in a row with CIA – TeakDoor.com – The Thailand Forum

    [...] [...]

  • zachpruckowski

    There’s an error in your article. Director Panetta has been saying from the outset that the documents are the agents’ best recollections and may be inaccurate. That was in the original letter he sent to the Intelligence Committee, the one that contained the list of meetings that started this whole brouhaha. The blog post you linked to (Wash Post’s Plumline blog) that reported on the letter did so two weeks ago. It’s inaccurate to say that Leon Panetta “responded” to the controversy in the same document that began the controversy. That sentence was in the original letter that started this whole “Pelosi vs. the CIA” thing.

  • pmorlan1

    Thanks for confirming what those of us who read Marcy Wheelers excellent reporting at Firedoglake and emptywheel already knew. But, could you do us all a favor and give a copy of your piece to Mark Halperin. I know he works for Time but he evidently hasn’t read your piece because when he was on the Morning Joe show yesterday he never mentioned it while they were going after Pelosi again. I don’t know if you watch Morning Joe but those fatheads and their guests, like Time’s Mark Halperin, have been disseminating factually incorrect BS ever since the Pelosi story was manufactured. They evidently aren’t smart enough to read Marcy Wheeler’s reporting but maybe if they see it reported in TIME they will finally tell their viewers the truth.

    Here are links to two videos of yesterday’s Morning Joe show. You will not Mr. Halperin had ample opportunity to talk about what you reported but he failed to do so. Please do all of us a favor and give him a copy so that next time when he’s on Morning Joe he can actually set the record straight.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/#30864081
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/#30864598

  • http://makethemaccountable.com/index.php/2009/05/22/media-09-05-22/ Make Them Accountable / Media & Politics

    [...] Pelosi’s Probably Right (by Jay Newton-Small at Swampland, Time) House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has had a tough week — much of it her own making. But in looking at the substance of the accusations, it increasingly looks like she was right. Porter Goss was careful to parse his words in the conditional future tense when talking about what, exactly, he and Pelosi were briefed on in September 2002: “Today, I am slack-jawed to read that members claim to have not understood that the techniques on which they were briefed were to actually be employed; or that specific techniques such as ‘waterboarding’ were never mentioned.” And Senator Richard Shelby also carefully avoided saying he’d been briefed on EITs that had already been used, saying only that he’d been told about the techniques. And “purported” isn’t exactly a strong word – it’s a synonym of suggested or claimed… [...]

  • pmorlan1

    Jay, maybe you can pass this along to Mark Halperin too.

    http://democracity.blogspot.com/2009/05/is-mark-halperin-really-good-spokesman.html

  • http://cfelectro.com/real/2009/05/victory-is-mine/ Victory Is Mine!!!! | No Bull. news service.

    [...] a TradMed source who knows how to [...]

  • http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/victory-is-mine/ Emptywheel » Victory Is Mine!!!!

    [...] a TradMed source who knows how to read!!!! But in looking at the substance of the accusations, it increasingly looks [...]

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