A Third Doctor Objects To CIA Misuse of Science

I have updated the story I posted earlier today with yet another scientist, this one in France, objecting to the way the CIA and the Justice Department used his work to justify prolonged sleep deprivation on detainees.

Dr. S. Hakki Onen, sleep specialist and geriatrician with the Hôpital Gériatrique A. Charial, a part of the Hospices Civils de Lyon in Lyon, France, is the author of a paper cited in footnotes in the two May 10, 2005 memos that President Obama declassified last week. The two other named scientists, James Horne and Bernd Kundermann have also objected to the use their material to argue that CIA procedures were did not rise to the level of torture.

Here is the complete statement of Onen, as given to TIME reporter Bruce Crumley in Paris. Like Kundermann, Onen only discovered his citation in the CIA memos when he was contacted by TIME.

I’m disappointed, upset, consternated, and even hurt at seeing this. This research was undertaken to learn about the relationship between pain and sleep deprivation, and inform the scientific community how we can improve and develop new strategies for treating and managing the pain of our patients. To see it used in this manner is upsetting, because its goals run counter to the therapeutic intent of our effort…In publishing clinical findings like this, you’re aware you lose control of them, because they can be read and even abused by people who may have other objectives in mind. . . . (More after the jump.)


Our medical study set careful guidelines and ethical limits, and used volunteers who were in good health. Those paid volunteers also issued from the medical field, understood what the study entailed, and could leave the experiment at any time if they desired. The maximum limit of total sleep deprivation was set at 40 hours, during which time the volunteers were accompanied in a comfortable and pleasant environment, and given healthy, gourmet food. Meanwhile, they were distracted from sleeplessness by playing different games, or watching soccer matches. They could eat, drink, read, and move about as they wished. The American documents we learn that sleep deprivation spanned from 70 to 120 hours—and set maximum limits of 180 hours for the hardest resisters, which is over a full week without sleep! In other words, they discuss starting the sleep deprivation process at nearly double the maximum we set for ethical reasons. Needless to say, the conditions within which that sleep deprivation took place in seems to have little in common with the open, controlled, and comfortable settings of our study.

The American documents also cite our study by saying 40 hours of sleep deprivation diminished pain tolerance thresholds by 8% to 9%, independent of all discomfort caused by physical interrogation methods. What it doesn’t note is our study also found patients deprived of sleep to be more sensitive to pain, and in a general state of discomfort. Meanwhile, it also ignores our finding that once patients were allowed a period of ‘rebound sleep’, they tended to be more resistant to pain. In that manner,  a few years later we used those findings in new medical experiments–for example, with sleep apnea syndrome in elderly patients, which is a chronic sleep deprivation model. When we treated these patients and restored their sleep, we also increased their pain thresholds. That therapeutic objective of our study is therefore opposite to its application as described in the reports.

It’s indeed a question of objective. The American documents talk about using sleep deprivation to opposite ends. In a manner, it’s like giving a drug to a patient: if you administer it in small doses for therapeutic reasons, it helps them. If you give it in huge volumes, it becomes toxic—and can even kill them.

Related Topics: Uncategorized
  • Latest on Swampland

    Obama Stumbles? Why the President’s Right to Talk About Bain

    The meme of the day in journo-world is that President Obama has stumbled at the outset of the general election campaign. The evidence for this? Well, uh, there isn’t very much, really–except that a few Democrats have criticized his campaign’s attacks on Mitt Romney’s record at Bain Capital and that Obama’s fundraising is merely humongous, instead of obscenely humongous. The two phenomena are linked, of course: Obama isn’t getting the usual haul from Wall Street because he has outrageously–outrageously!–tried to regulate the bankers who did so much to crash the economy in 2008. The handful of Democrats squawking are people who either (a) get money from private equity firms or (b) have retired and joined Mondo Casino. But there is another side to this story:

    Lewis Eisenberg, Major Romney Donor, Accuses Obama Of Demonizing Wall StreetHuffPost Politics

    Morning Must Reads: Haunted

  • http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/04/21/another-scientist-objects-the-cias-use-of-his-academic-research/ Another Scientist Objects The CIA’s Use Of His Academic Research – Swampland – TIME.com

    [...] A Third Doctor Objects To CIA Misuse of Science [...]

  • ymmartin

    You know, I was looking but I couldn’t tell, but it seems to me that the only scientists that were cited were Europeans. I find that interesting, I mean didn’t they think that at some point this ‘pinko Commies’ would object to the use of their research…I mean, they are European. (yes snark)

  • gysgt213

    Michael-I commented earlier that there were other doctors present checking these prisoner’s health and knowing what these people were subject to. Did those same doctors know about the research? There are a lot of questions here so please stay on this.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    MS,
    In case I haven’t made it clear, I really appreciate the work your doing on this. Keep it up.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    You’re

  • michaelscherer

    GYS, The OMS doctors, who work with the CIA, are not the sort that is easy to interview. The documents do make clear, however, that the CIA IG found that the early use of the enhanced techniques was done without the approval or proper supervision of OMS.

  • gysgt213

    OT: But Glenn brings up a good point concerning Jane Harman’s conduct today after being one of the most vigorous suppports/defenders of warrantless wire taps. NOW she has a problem. What a piece of sh*t. But, hey Joe Klein likes her.
    .
    That’s what I asked Attorney General Holder to do — to release any tapes, I don’t know whether they were legally made or not, of my conservations about this matter . . . and to hope that he will investigate whether other members of Congres or other innocent Americans might have been subject to this same treatment. I call it an abuse of power in the letter I wrote him this morning. . . .
    >
    I’m just very disappointed that my country — I’m an American citizen just like you are — could have permitted what I think is a gross abuse of power in recent years. I’m one member of Congress who may be caught up in it, and I have a bully pulpit and I can fight back. I’m thinking about others who have no bully pulpit, who may not be aware, as I was not, that someone is listening in on their conversations and they’re innocent Americans.
    .
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?source=rss

  • gysgt213

    “the early use of the enhanced techniques was done without the approval or proper supervision of OMS.”
    .
    Quite right on the not easy to interview Michael understood. However, you say “early” use. Did that change at some point?

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    What the hell happened the the comments?

  • rose83

    Who would base intelligence on information obtained from severely sleep-deprived people who have very possibly crossed the threshold to delusional?

  • gysgt213

    “Who would base intelligence on information obtained from severely sleep-deprived people who have very possibly crossed the threshold to delusional?”
    .
    Bush adminisration! What do I win Rose?

  • Friar Tuck

    “Who would base intelligence on information obtained from severely sleep-deprived people who have very possibly crossed the threshold to delusional?”
    .
    Criminals. STUPID criminals.

  • gysgt213

    Via Digby. Snap!
    .
    The Republicans are finally seeking to lay blame for the torture regime where it belongs — with the Democrats:

    If Democrats insist on probing the Bush administration’s program of detainee torture, they’d better be careful, a senior Senate Republican said Tuesday, because they might find blood on their own hands as well.
    .
    “To sit quietly and to let this happen and then to come back later and say people ought to be prosecuted criminally, not just here in the United States but perhaps internationally, to me is inconsistent, to say the least,” said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas).
    .
    http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/

  • rose83

    I was thinking people who really don’t care about getting accurate intelligence.
    .
    Apparently the Bush Administration never understood that bad intelligence can kill innocent people.

  • Friar Tuck

    Gunny – re Harman.
    .
    “You open a window on the left, then you open a window on the right, and now you’re complaining because there’s a draft. You’re dumb.” (Sanche de Gramont, The French: Portrait of a People)

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    It’s indeed a question of objective. The American documents talk about using sleep deprivation to opposite ends. In a manner, it’s like giving a drug to a patient: if you administer it in small doses for therapeutic reasons, it helps them. If you give it in huge volumes, it becomes toxic—and can even kill them.

    .
    I just thought that was worth repeating. Can someone forward this to Joe Scarborough please?

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    gysgt
    .
    Here is the deal, the Dems were briefed but only in top secret briefings where they weren’t allowed to bring in any writing materials nor aides. They were also told that they were not able to reveal to anyone, I repeat anyone, what they were briefed on. They weren’t asked for their opinions and they also weren’t allowed to question the briefers. Now in truth it was all a set up from the Bush adminstration to cover their own ass. They told these people about torture but then told them they couldn’t tell anyone and because of the rules of national security they literally couldn’t. So now the Republicans get to come back and point the finger and say “Hey the Dems knew about it” without ever acknowledging that they still couldn’t tell anybody about it. Unfortuantely because most of us on the left were and are so opposed to torture and wiretapping we bought the line hook line and sinker and are pissed at the Dems who participated also. But when it comes down to it there was literally nothing they could do. And thats spoken as someone who has no love for Jay Rockerfeller or Jane Harman.

  • rose83

    SG, but Jane Harman actively worked to implement and support the Bush Administration’s surveillance policies. She wasn’t merely a passive observer.
    .
    There’s a difference between being unable to stop something bad and working to make it happen.

  • gysgt213

    Sg-My point is this is why the Republicans are so very good at this stuff. Cronyn just gave the talking point that we will hear all over again. Its simple and very easy to remember. I agree with everything you said, however, the Bush administration is gone now. Time to man up Democrats.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    rose83
    .
    Actually you are wrong, she didn’t implement a damn thing. All she did was cheerlead for it after the fact.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    gysgt
    .
    There is nothing to do now. Remember that with bipartisan support including now President then Senator Obama the Congress already passed the FISA bill, of course it still isn’t stopping the illegalities evidently. And President Obama has already outlawed torture. What else is there to do other than tear up the FISA bill and bring something better?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Time to man up Democrats.
    .
    That’s why I think it’s so fascinationg to watch Tapper go after Gibbs. But the question remains. Where was everyone in 05?
    .
    I’d love for someone to pull something out of the archive that demonstrates that the same folks who are wolves now weren’t sheep when they still had to report to Karl Rove.

  • Friar Tuck

    @sgw – and I don’t mean this as a slam at you personally.
    .
    Of course there was something Rockefeller and Harman could have done. Doctors and interrogators could have done it too (perhaps some of them did). They could have taken a stand on principal and resigned.
    .
    If the best you can do is refuse to take part, then you must refuse to take part. Nobody – not you, sgw, not me, not anybody gets a pass when it comes to pure evil. Republicans and Democrats alike, they were and are guilty as hell.

  • gysgt213

    Already the press has pretty much reduced all of this to a fight between the left and right.

  • Friar Tuck

    Well, gunny, it’s what they do.

  • Friar Tuck

    Why is there a delay with comments all of a sudden?

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Friar Tuck
    .
    That’s assuming of course that they were giving true briefings about what was really going on. Besides that, these people aren’t in Congress to serve the President, they are there to serve their constituents. Now Cabinet officials I could see where you are coming from, but I don’t think thats realistic when you are talking about members of Congress.

  • Friar Tuck

    sgw,
    .
    “realistic” – now there’s a loaded word. I hear what you’re saying, and I’m not going to go all ingenuous (or “kaybeel”) on you, but a little less of this “realism” might have saved us a mess of trouble.

  • sacredh

    If all this does go to trial eventually, both sides are going to take some hits. There are some law firms that are going to make a serious pile of cash. Nailing the people at the top of the food chain is going to be the hardest so I’d like to see them go after the guys in the lower to midranges first. Once they start cutting deals, there should be more evidence to make the cases against the upper echelon people stronger. Like FT says “nobody gets a free pass when it comes to pure evil”. If some dems go down with the republicans, we have at least a little cleaner system. Getting rid of all of the infection might restore ud to health a little more quickly.

  • gysgt213

    Chuck is really starting to get on my nerves.
    .
    MITCHELL: They clearly are responding to the letter from Diane Feinstein…and the whole question of whether – in the liberal blogosphere whether they have been too quick to shut down any prosecutions.
    .
    TODD: There does seem to be a little bit of a reaction to how this was received on the left. And the president, when he went on in those comments, Andrea, to suggest that he’d be open to some sort of special commission that was bipartisan, you know, he said, on one hand said he’s worried about the process getting politicized, and frankly this feels like a political food fight now. Vice President Cheney on one side, President Obama on the other. The hard left, the hard right, fighting over this in the blogosphere. When he talks about – he fears the politicization – that may be too late, so the compromise might be, and the president basically comes out and endorses it in that photo op, questioning that he got there, which is a special commission to look into this but it opens up all sorts of doors on when legal opinions matter and all that. That is just — this is some touchy situation, issues having to do with legal opinions, the constitution, it’s a real tightrope. And the political pressure on both sides is intense.
    .
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/21/chuck-todd-depicts-suppor_n_189647.html

  • Friar Tuck

    OMG, Gunny, the adults are gone and Binky the Clown is in charge.
    .
    I think it may be time to stock up on TP and canned food.

  • gysgt213

    Friar Tuck-Good thing we just looking forward now, because I thought all the blogs did was rip off the hard work of reporters.

  • Friar Tuck

    Gunny, I would be rolling on the floor laughing if I thought I could get up again.

  • shepherdwong

    Actually you are wrong, she didn’t implement a damn thing. All she did was cheerlead for it after the fact.
    .
    I don’t think that participating in a cover-up of a criminal conspiracy – which is what the NSA program was at the time – is quite the same as “cheerleading”.

  • shepherdwong

    “Chuck is really starting to get on my nerves.”
    .
    I agree, it’s not too much fun to watch if you consider yourself a liberal or even if you just like intelligent journalism but, keep in mind, Obama is playing Todd and his group-thinking pals like a fiddle and that’s the expected tune.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    shepherdwong
    .
    Again the question is whether she knew it was illegal at the time which she says she doesn’t. Whatever her faults Harman appears to have been a true believer. She really seemed to think the program worked and she tried to get the story kicked because she thought it would hurt the program besides the fact that it was top secret. Again you have to factor in what she was told and what she wasn’t. But lets keep it real here, the NYTimes didn’t kill the story because of a Congresswoman who was in the minority at the time asked them to.

  • sacredh

    Ten or fifteen years from now when we’re sitting back, smoking a legal doober and reading the book about the trials, I wonder how many of us are going to be thinking “Obama conducted that whole thing like a maestro. I’m glad we repealed that two terms and you’re out nonsense.”? (The last line was kind of a snark)

  • slowp

    Well…it’s good to know that there were at least *some* areas when GWB & Cheney had a respect for science.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    OT
    .
    Seriously this is a must read about the flame war between Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs fame and the rest of the anti-muslim wingnutosphere that he helped to birth.
    .
    http://washingtonindependent.com/39629/civil-war-raging-in-right-wing-blogosphere

  • shepherdwong

    “Again the question is whether she knew it was illegal at the time which she says she doesn’t.”
    .
    It only becomes a question if you believe her. FISA was the law of the land and the Bush Administration and NSA were in flagrant violation of FISA and everyone knew it (if it weren’t, why try to quash the story?). Dick Cheney and others are still telling us that they really think torture “works”. So what?

  • rustyreturns

    I like this WaPo article. You should only wish to write such an article, Michael Scherer;
    .
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664.html
    .
    So, the question is should anyone present at the time be held responsible? Or, are we speaking of a practice, condoned by the Congressional representatives, now majority leaders in Congress, and in hind sight say, “well maybe we shouldn’t have done it”.
    .
    I go back to a comment I made yesterday. Now that Obama has released the memo’s content about what torture was done at the time. Now he has a responsibility to also release the information garnered from said torture.
    .
    Then the American voter through their representative on Capitol Hill decide if future forms of interrogation is illegal or not. If there was no law against these forms of interrogation, and that is all that it is, then there are no laws broken.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    shepherdwong
    .
    Again I think she didn’t want the story to run because she thought the terrorists might change their communication habits. Hey I am not saying she is telling the truth, although I am leaning towards believing her, what I am saying is that there is nothing definitive either way. So just like I don’t know definitely that she was telling the truth, nobody else knows that she was definitely lying either.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    On waterboarding
    .

    Harman, who replaced Pelosi as the committee’s top Democrat in January 2003, disclosed Friday that she filed a classified letter to the CIA in February of that year as an official protest about the interrogation program. Harman said she had been prevented from publicly discussing the letter or the CIA’s program because of strict rules of secrecy.
    .
    “When you serve on intelligence committee you sign a second oath — one of secrecy,” she said. “I was briefed, but the information was closely held to just the Gang of Four. I was not free to disclose anything.

  • shepherdwong

    “So just like I don’t know definitely that she was telling the truth, nobody else knows that she was definitely lying either.”
    .
    Considering her position and the knowledge available to her, compared to what a relative dumbsh*t like me can understand about the existing law and the program as The Times described it, it is simply implausible that she didn’t know it was illegal. She may have also thought the program was effective and the publicity might hurt it but, again, so what. She tried to stop and American newspaper from publishing the truth about rampant administration lawbreaking, giving them legal and political cover, all in the run-up to the 2004 election where knowledge of the criminal conspiracy being run out of the White House might have made the difference in who was president for the past four years. I couldn’t care less about any possible “good intentions” or whether she’s telling the truth.

  • shepherdwong

    “I like this WaPo article.”
    .
    So “…said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange,…” in the CIAs paper of record. I think we’ve had quite enough self-serving bullsh*t from people who won’t be named, copied down and published by people who no longer have any idea what real journalism is. OTOH, keep up the good work, Mr. Scherer.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    shepherdwong
    .
    I will agree to disagree with you on this. I just feel that its at least as likely that she just believed in the program and thought ti was essential to fighting al Queda and didn’t want them to know what was going on.
    .
    http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/harman-wiretapping-disappointed/

  • http://time.postdown.com/2009/04/21/another-scientist-objects-the-cias-use-of-his-academic-research/ Time » Blog Archive » Another Scientist Objects The CIA’s Use Of His Academic Research

    [...] of a third scientist objecting to citation of their work by the CIA and the Justice Department. See the post above for a better [...]

  • http://policingwingnutwelfare.blogspot.com/ JJ

    Looks like everyone’s beat me to it. This Jane Harman NSA thing is very tasty. Someone knows how to leak.
    .
    When do we get to hear Joe Klein’s take on this?

  • shepherdwong

    Hate to do this, SW (really, really hate it) but I’m going to have to quote Chris Matthews: if the ends justify the means, what means can’t be justified? I understand that we all went crazy witnessing 9/11, just as we should have, and it put us through a terrific test of our values, particularly whether we were a country of laws. To me, Harman’s cooperation with what our government did, is an example of our failure.

  • http://policingwingnutwelfare.blogspot.com/ JJ

    Ah, I’ve been away for a couple days. Looks like he’s already been there. Nevermind.

  • shepherdwong

    Oh, and Harman also helped to seriously and permanently erode our Bill of Rights protections from government spying. That kind of sucks too.

  • davidwaters1

    Torture is not the way to facilitate cooperation with other countries. The U.S. should focus more on soft power and increase the strategic foreign aid.
    The Borgen Project has good info on the estimated cost of ending global poverty:

    $30 billion: Annual shortfall to end world hunger.

    $550 billion: U.S. Defense budget.

  • kristiia

    Tonight from McClatchy:

    Report: Abusive tactics were used to find Iraq-al Qaida link

    By Jonathan S. Landay | McClatchy Newspapers

    WASHINGTON — The Bush administration put relentless pressure on interrogators to use harsh methods on detainees in part to find evidence of cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein’s regime, according to a former senior U.S. intelligence official and a former Army psychiatrist.

    Such information would’ve provided a foundation for one of former President George W. Bush’s main arguments for invading Iraq in 2003. No evidence has ever been found of operational ties between Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network and Saddam’s regime.

    -snip-
    “There was constant pressure on the intelligence agencies and the interrogators to do whatever it took to get that information out of the detainees, especially the few high-value ones we had, and when people kept coming up empty, they were told by Cheney’s and Rumsfeld’s people to push harder,” he continued.

    “Cheney’s and Rumsfeld’s people were told repeatedly, by CIA . . . and by others, that there wasn’t any reliable intelligence that pointed to operational ties between bin Laden and Saddam, and that no such ties were likely because the two were fundamentally enemies, not allies.”

    Senior administration officials, however, “blew that off and kept insisting that we’d overlooked something, that the interrogators weren’t pushing hard enough, that there had to be something more we could do to get that information,” he said.

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66622.html#none

  • shepherdwong

    …they were told by Cheney’s and Rumsfeld’s people to push harder…”
    .
    And we know they also had their (“You’re not going to let me lose face on this, are you?”) Bush marching orders.
    .
    Anyway, what a lame headline. “Abusive tactics were used to find Iraq-al Qaida link” implies such a link existed and was found. “Torture encouraged to pursue Iraq-al Qaida link.” Better.

  • rose83

    SG, I know I’m about 8 hours late, but just to clarify I was referring to Harman’s record on FISA and her efforts to keep the Bush administration’s intelligence policies secret when I used the word “implement.” IMO, any distinction between secrecy and implementation in this instance is a false one because maintaining secrecy was inextricably linked with implementing those policies.

  • gysgt213

    You rise to become the top Democrat on the House Intelligence committee. When you get this position you become part of the elite ‘Gang of Eight,’ and as part of your intel briefings, you are told that under orders from the president, the National Security Agency set up “unique access points inside the U.S. telecommunications infrastructure.” You are assured that this is legal. You are a trained lawyer.
    .
    What do you do?
    .
    Well, if you are one particular Congresswoman, you don’t think that’s its highly suspicious that the NSA is operating inside the United States. You don’t find a way to research the legality of the program, by getting hypothetical answers from constitutional and intelligence experts. You don’t read the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to see if the program sounds legal.
    .
    Instead, you wait until 2004 when a reporter comes sniffing around and then you warn him not run a story.
    .
    Then, after the story finally runs some 13 months later, you call for the prosecution of the New York Times for revealing the illegality you thought was legality.
    .
    Then you smell a changes in the political winds, perhaps get a little curious. Three years after becoming the top Democrat on the Intelligence committee, you finally decide to learn about the history of FISA and learn that it is the ONLY way for the nation’s spooks to spy on Americans. You start stamping your feet a little bit in public.
    .
    Then you wonder why Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a fellow Democratic Californian congresswoman, passes you over in 2006 for the chair of the House Intelligence committee.
    .
    Then you try to defend yourself online in 2008 saying you were not for the program when it was secret and against it when it was revealed.
    .
    You are Jane Harman, (D-California).
    .
    Hat Tip: TalkingPointsMemo
    http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/03/harman-its-not.html
    .
    Fast forward April 2009.
    .
    That’s what I asked Attorney General Holder to do — to release any tapes, I don’t know whether they were legally made or not, of my conservations about this matter . . . and to hope that he will investigate whether other members of Congress or other innocent Americans might have been subject to this same treatment. I call it an abuse of power in the letter I wrote him this morning. . . .
    .
    I’m just very disappointed that my country — I’m an American citizen just like you are — could have permitted what I think is a gross abuse of power in recent years. I’m one member of Congress who may be caught up in it, and I have a bully pulpit and I can fight back. I’m thinking about others who have no bully pulpit, who may not be aware, as I was not, that someone is listening in on their conversations, and they’re innocent Americans.
    .

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks
  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    The acting CFO for Freddie Mac was found this morning dead of an apparent suicide.

  • ymmartin

    I just want to throw this out there see if one of the Swamplanders might consider looking into what hope there is for Obama’s administration to impact the judiciary and start putting, oh I don’t know, reasonable humans on the federal bench, rather than the knuckleheads that are there now slowly destroying any hope of privacy and individual rights:
    http://www.slate.com/id/2216608/pagenum/all/#p2

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    I am now coming out in support of using the term “pro torture” when referring to Republican torture apologists. I am hoping it will catch on.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1893015,00.html?xid=rss-topstories
    .

    Soon afterward, the first alarms began to sound. Jerald Ogrisseg, an Air Force SERE psychologist, warned JPRA chief of staff Daniel Baumgartner that waterboarding detainees was illegal. In Oct 2002, Lieut. Colonel Morgan Banks, an Army SERE psychologist, warned officials at Gitmo of the risks of using SERE techniques for interrogation, pointing out that even with the Army’s careful monitoring, injuries and accidents did happen. “The risk with real detainees is increased exponentially,” he wrote.
    .
    But by then, the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) had already issued two legal opinions, signed by Assistant Attorney General Jay Bybee, declaring that the techniques did not amount to torture. JPRA training for Gitmo interrogators was stepped up. In December 2002, with Rumsfeld’s authorization, officials of the Joint Task Force at Gitmo devised a standard operating procedure for the use of many SERE techniques to interrogate detainees.
    .
    Rumsfeld would rescind his authorization in a manner of weeks, after the Navy General Counsel, Alberto Mora, raised concerns about many techniques, arguing that they violated U.S. and international laws and constituted, at worst, torture. Mora met Haynes and warned him that the “interrogation policies could threaten [Rumsfeld's] tenure and could even damage the presidency.”
    .
    But even after Rumsfeld in January 2003 rescinded the authority for the use of SERE techniques at Gitmo, they remained in use in Afghanistan, and later in Iraq. Since Rumsfeld never declared these techniques illegal, military lawyers down the line were able to cite his original authorization as Pentagon policy. JPRA instructors would eventually travel to Iraq to train military interrogators there.
    .
    In the summer of 2004, the JPRA was even considering sending trainers to Afghanistan, prompting another SERE psychologist, Colonel Kenneth Rollins, to warn his colleagues by e-mail: “[W]e need to really stress the difference between what instructors do at SERE school (done to INCREASE RESISTANCE capability in students) versus what is taught at interrogator school (done to gather information). What is done by SERE instructors is by definition ineffective interrogator conduct. Simply stated, SERE school does not train you on how to interrogate, and things you ‘learn’ there by osmosis about interrogation are probably wrong if copied by interrogators.”

  • Ohg Rea Tone

    The turn to mid evil European torture tactics in the past eight years can only be rectified by bringing the perpetrators to justice. Justice means a fair trial – and George Bush should have the right to defend his actions. ………………

    http://thefiresidepost.com/2009/04/16/indicting-george-bush-for-war-crimes/

blog comments powered by Disqus