The Obama Foreign Policy Doctrine

President Obama has an ability to issue coherent, Op-Ed-length answers during press conferences that is currently unmatched on the American political stage. Today, at a press conference in Trinidad, NBC’s Chuck Todd asked Obama to describe the “Obama doctrine” for foreign policy. At first Obama joked that it would be up to the press to write the “definitive statement on Obamism.” But then he said the following, which reads to me as just about the clearest, most succinct statement yet of Obama’s diplomatic approach (with a little editing). Here is his answer:

[T]here are a couple of principles that I’ve tried to apply across the board: Number one, that the United States remains the most powerful, wealthiest nation on Earth, but we’re only one nation, and that the problems that we confront, whether it’s drug cartels, climate change, terrorism, you name it, can’t be solved just by one country. And I think if you start with that approach, then you are inclined to listen and not just talk.

And so in all these meetings what I’ve said is, we have some very clear ideas in terms of where the international community should be moving; we have some very specific national interests, starting with safety and security that we have to attend to; but we recognize that other countries have good ideas, too, and we want to hear them. And the fact that a good idea comes from a small country like a Costa Rica should not somehow diminish the fact that it’s a good idea. I think people appreciate that. So that’s number one.

Number two, I think that — I feel very strongly that when we are at our best, the United States represents a set of universal values and ideals — the idea of democratic practices, the idea of freedom of speech and religion, the idea of a civil society where people are free to pursue their dreams and not be imposed upon constantly by their government. So we’ve got a set of ideas that I think have broad applicability. But what I also believe is that other countries have different cultures, different perspectives, and are coming out of different histories, and that we do our best to promote our ideals and our values by our example. (More after jump.)

And so if we are practicing what we preach and if we occasionally confess to having strayed from our values and our ideals, that strengthens our hand; that allows us to speak with greater moral force and clarity around these issues.

And again, I think people around the world appreciate that we’re not suggesting we are holding ourselves to one set of standards and we’re going to hold you to another set of standards; that we’re not simply going to lecture you, but we’re rather going to show through how we operate the benefits of these values and ideals.

And the — as a consequence of listening, believing that there aren’t junior partners and senior partners in the international stage, I don’t think that we suddenly transform every foreign policy item that’s on the agenda. I know that in each of these meetings the question has been, well, did you get something specific? What happened here? What happened there?

Countries are going to have interests, and changes in foreign policy approaches by my administration aren’t suddenly going to make all those interests that may diverge from ours disappear. What it does mean, though, is, at the margins, they are more likely to want to cooperate than not cooperate. It means that where there is resistance to a particular set of policies that we’re pursuing, that resistance may turn out just to be based on old preconceptions or ideological dogmas that, when they’re cleared away, it turns out that we can actually solve a problem.

And so we’re still going to have very tough negotiations on a whole host of issues. In Europe, people believe in our plan for Afghanistan, but their politics are still such that it’s hard for leaders to want to send more troops into Afghanistan. That’s not going to change because I’m popular in Europe or leaders think that I’ve been respectful towards them. On the other hand, by having established those better relations, it means that among the population there’s more confidence that working with the United States is beneficial, and they are going to try to do more than they might otherwise have done.

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  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Sounds very reasonable to me. Prediction, “This answer means President Obama believes appeasement will make all our problems go away” quote by a host of Republicans later today and all day tomorrow and assorted FoxNews hosts. Doesn’t matter that he said the exact opposite of it. Of course its like shooting fish in a barrel predicting Republican behavior nowadays. If they really wanted to shake up the world they would praise his words. But they know one thing and one thing only….ATTACK!!!

  • ajelabi1

    Lowering the temperature of international discourse at this junction is very peudent imho. BO is not perfect, but I think he is steering this ship in the right direction

  • 53_3

    For my entire life, I’ve watched as our misguided foreign policy has produced more enemies than freinds, feeding a vicious cycle of self perpetuating antagonism.
    .
    All of which kept breathing life into policies that kept us backing the wrong actors on the world stage, and/or, breeding extremism on the streets of other nations.
    .
    We were the ones who helped create Iran, Hamas, the current Israeli government, Venezuela, Al Queda, Cuba and a host of other antagonists.*
    .
    I see Obama’s policies as the first real change in our country’s stance since WWII.
    .
    *We bear some responsibility, not all, for some of these, and other, antagonists.

  • redraven937

    I imagine that the press corps immediately burst into applause afterward. I know I would have.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    redraven
    .
    You must not be familiar with Tapper/Henry/Reid. They probably booed him and went off to call Drudge to give him a heads up on the articles they were about to write about it.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Contrast Obama’s response with Boehner on climate change
    .
    http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001193/

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Obama is playing chess while the GOP plays checkers
    .
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090419/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cb_obama_summit
    .

    As for Venezuela, Obama’s friendly encounters with Chavez at the summit drew intense publicity — partly, Obama said, because Chavez is good at getting in front of TV cameras. Chavez’s anti-American rhetoric has, in the past, led Obama to call him a demagogue.
    .
    Before he even got back to Washington, Obama was facing condemnation from some Republicans about how he dealt with Chavez. The president brushed that aside, noting that Venezuela has a defense budget about one-six hundredth the size of the United States’ and owns the oil company Citgo.
    .
    “It’s unlikely that as a consequence of me shaking hands or having a polite conversation with Mr. Chavez that we are endangering the strategic interests of the United States,” Obama said. “I don’t think anybody can find any evidence that that would do so.”

  • centfan

    Chavez is a buffoon outside (and, to a degree, inside) his country. Every time the Republicans open their mouths, a terrorist and/or tin plated dictator gets his wings to a higher status in the world media.
    -
    If Republicans stopped fighting to keep us addicted to oil then Chavez and most terrorist funding would dry up and blow away.

  • Cliff

    It’s unlikely that as a consequence of me shaking hands or having a polite conversation with Mr. Chavez that we are endangering the strategic interests of the United States,” Obama said. “I don’t think anybody can find any evidence that that would do so.”
    .
    “Now put on a fresh set of diapers, you babies,” Obama added, “because I sure as hell ain’t gonna do it for you.”

  • 53_3

    I think we should do just what Obama did with respect to Chavez and Cuba. Neither country can attack us, and having a better relationship with them reduces the likelihood of them going to other nations more threatening to the US for help.
    .
    The Venezuelan – Russian entente is an example of this. We basically, because, and only because, he’s a socialist, drove him into their arms.
    .
    Freinds are a lot easier to talk to than are enemies…

  • 53_3

    On top of that, think of the markets these countries have…

  • sacredh

    If you turn an emeny into a friend, you have one more friend and one less enemy. That’s going to be too much for the RW to comprehend. It just might be possible that the leaders of countries like Venezuela and Cuba wouldn’t be so anti-American if they thought we wouldn’t try to topple their governments. How well has the ban on Cuba worked to our advantage? Would you say it an outstanding success and that a country only 90 miles from us is an open market to us? Reality based diplomacy coming from Washington is something new. It’s worth a try. It’s also possible that foriegn nations might look at the RW republicans bashing Obama on every single thing he does and think that maybe if the opposing party hates him and his ideas so much that it could be mutually beneficial to work with this administration. Looking at us as a potential trading partner instead of as a possible invading force is a no brainer.

  • Cliff

    Would you say it an outstanding success and that a country only 90 miles from us is an open market to us?
    .
    Only dirty communists want accessible nearby markets for our goods. How dare you.

  • 53_3

    I think those two countries alone have a population of some 42 million. And Cuba?
    .
    Of that, about 11.5 million. Not exactly a threat to the US.
    .
    If we could instead be partners in growth and prosperity, and lead by example instead of fiat, we might even solve the immigration problems in such a way that everyone might be happy.
    .
    Europe did it. Why can’t we?

  • sacredh

    Plus, Cuba has great beaches and weather. The sugar cane is a nice little bonus but tourism could greatly benefit both of us. Gitmo has a terrible reputation already, so turning it into an S&M destination for those into kink could kill two birds with one stone. (Possible snark)

  • http://bucketsofrain.com/blog/?p=1366 Steve’s No Direction Home Page » Blog Archive » The Obama Foreign Policy Doctrine

    [...] It’s amazing to have a president who is able to articulate a sane foreign policy doctrine. [...]

  • middlegirl

    This is why the teleprompter meme is so ridculously absurd. Brilliant, off the cuff answer.

    I was annoyed at CNN for asking a question about the Chavez handshake,(a topic they are actively stoking on their website as the controversy du jour). My annoyance passed quickly because it gave Obama a chance to smack the stupid out of that reporter.

    Halperin listed 16 reasons why Obama is “exceptionally good” at what he does.”On major decisions, almost without exception, Obama does what he thinks is right, rather then what might appear to be the politically expedient thing to do; in the end, doing what he thinks is right actually turns out to be better politics.”

    http://thepage.time.com/halperins-take-why-obama-is-exceptionally-good-at-his-job/

  • textee

    “The Obama Foreign Policy Doctrine”?

    -

    Answer: Appear in foreign countries before adoring crowds of virulent, militant America haters and denounce the United States.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Again, predictable.

  • middlegirl

    “Appear in foreign countries before adoring crowds of virulent, militant America haters and denounce the United States”

    The good news is that paranoid delusion is very treatable these days. Good luck with that.

  • formerlyjames

    America haters? textee, do you speak of the world (broad brush), or the RW seccessionists?
    .
    I saw the whole press conference until CNN lost the signal as Obama was asking about a stray wallet left on the podium. I switched to Faux and he had come back to talk about the American lady in Iran.
    .
    Every time I see him it is a cool fresh breeze in my world, even as my mind flashes contrasts with Bush.

  • sacredh

    Cliff: I take very strong exception to being called a “dirty communist”. I just got out of the shower less than an hour ago.

  • yutsano

    Only dirty communists want accessible nearby markets for our goods. How dare you.
    -
    All I could think of after reading this statement was Nike shoes and Viet Nam…
    -
    Halperin listed 16 reasons why Obama is “exceptionally good” at what he does.

    -
    Perfect example of a blind squirrel and an acorn. Possible pun terminology intended.

  • sacredh

    yutsano: We can only hope that their slave labor isn’t cheaper than our slave labor.

  • yoshiattack

    This is probably a breach of etiquette or something, but as it was suggested to continue the conversation over in the new thread, I guess I’ll try to.
    -
    SG:
    Actually HA didn’t come out with anything within 24 hours. I didn’t say anything until the day after the OLC memos came out.
    -
    And you didn’t take back the claim of sucky patriotism once Ed posted, did you? Oh well. It’s easier to attack.
    -
    Second the report didn’t say the veterans having problems reengaging were more suceptible, it said that those were the ones the right wing extremists were more likely to target.
    -
    From the report, page 2:
    -
    “The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the possible emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks.”
    -
    Again, the qualifier would not be there if it did not indicate increased susceptibility to extremism.
    -
    Third I questioned patriotism on the issue of wingnuts wanting to seceed from the country and thats a valid argument.
    -
    I wasn’t referring to this. Obviously, Rick Perry is not a particularly patriotic (among other qualities) individual.
    -
    formerlyjames:
    If you don’t feel offended, that’s cool. However, I still believe the report’s language is sloppy.
    -
    53:
    If you look for names of current RW extremist groups in the text, you will find none (on the other hand, the LW file is rife with them). In their stead is written this metric:
    -
    “Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and
    adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups),
    and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or
    rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a
    single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.

    -
    The last sentence is the stickler, as it is a) entirely unnecessary and b) by its nature paints a broad brush. As it is, it curries suspicion of anti-abortion or anti-illegal groups. The “in favor of state or local authority” excerpt is also a point of contention, because big-government federal intervention is supposed to be what conservatives stand against, and one could construe that definition to encompass a wide range of harmless political groups. (for example, those that argue for state control and utilization of resources, such as those in Alaska. No, the AIP is only a segment of that sentiment).
    -
    As another aside, Yoshi, I don’t think you can make a case for there not being a lot of motivation on the part of the right for partaking in violent behavior.
    -
    A few dozen people does not the right make. We have our crazies, just as you do. I don’t think you’d seriously argue that people like Bill Maher and art-film directors enamored with the thought of presidential assassinations represent anywhere near the majority of the left.

  • sacredh

    If normalized relations do occur between our nations, isn’t that going to take the wind out of the sails for the republican Cuban-Americans? Good grief, what if it turns out to be an economic stimulus for BOTH countries? Mutual Assured Democracy. I shudder to think.

  • formerlyjames

    sacredh, labor issues are all in the process of being severely rearranged as we speak.

  • sacredh

    yoshiattack: It is a breach of etiquette. Consider yourself teabagged. (another thread?)

  • formerlyjames

    yoshi, if there was any documented evidence in the report at all, it would be the anti-abortion nuts. They have repeated killed specific targets engaging in pro-choice activities, as well as random, innocent people in their free floating violence.

  • sacredh

    I brought up slave labor because here in Ohio, they’re floating the idea of using prisoners to replace laid off state workers.

  • http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2009/04/19/obama-statement-of-his-foreign-policy/ Obama statement of his foreign policy « Later On

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  • yutsano

    I brought up slave labor because here in Ohio, they’re floating the idea of using prisoners to replace laid off state workers.
    -
    I still stand behind the idea that we could solve the illegal immigrant issue at least in California with one big stroke: having California prisoners work the fields at the agribusinesses there. Pretty much all the business would have to pay for is the security, the veggies get picked, no need for migrant/day labor (which tends to be overwhelmingly illegal), and it gets prisoners doing something other than sitting around thinking of how wronged they are all day and night. Seems like a good solution in my estimation.
    -
    That has little to do with helping Ohio (an asinine suggestion there if I ever heard one, even if the prisoner pool has the requisite skills to do the jobs) but since you brought it up I figured I’d throw it out there.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    What I don’t understand is how the right wing got this way, why are they so scared sh#tless by everything?
    .
    Did they suffer some severe trauma like my rescue dog that will take time and patience to get the to see the world as a not so scary place?
    .
    I know that the president is incredibly patient, perhaps a quality honed in fatherhood, but these wingnuts could try the patience of a statute with their ridiculous meme about a smile will lead to our destruction from Venezuela.

  • http://barack-obama.linkedz.info/2009/04/19/the-obama-foreign-policy-doctrine/ Topics about Barack-obama » Blog Archive » The Obama Foreign Policy Doctrine

    [...] BadGalsRadio – RootsRock since 99′ placed an interesting blog post on The Obama Foreign Policy DoctrineHere’s a brief overviewPresident Obama has an ability to issue coherent, Op-Ed-length answers during press conferences that is currently unmatched on the American political stage. Today, at a press conference in Trinidad, NBC’s Chuck Todd asked Obama to describe the “Obama doctrine” for foreign policy. At first Obama… [...]

  • g_crush

    .
    sacredh: I brought up slave labor because here in Ohio, they’re floating the idea of using prisoners to replace laid off state workers.
    .
    Meanwhile, one of the banks here in Michigan is using high school co-op students to replace adult hourly employees.

  • sacredh

    yutsano: I’m against the idea of replacing laid-off state workers with prison labor for a couple of reasons.
    1st: When times do get better, I think the state would keep the prison labor as a cost cutting measure instead of rehiring the workers.
    2nd: Our country has well over 2,000,000 prisoners. It isn’t hard to imagine a permanent slave class. They can call it anything they want, it’s still a form of slavery.

  • tilliswynette

    We’ll see how well this Doctrine plays out when, in the next few months, Obama is forced to face his first major policy test: The Jerusalem Post is saying that Binyamin Netanyahu believes that Israel should join Texas in its fight against the tyranny of the disenfranchised. What’s more, he is ordering his government to begin studying the possibility of moving the Israeli Embassy in Washington to Rick Perry’s planned new capital city of Texas, Jefferson Davis City.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Yutsano,
    .
    There is one little problem with your idea. With the only exception to the constitutional amendment abolishing slavery in this country are incarcerated individuals and the current perception that minorities are disproportionately targeted for the prison system, especially drug related enforcement, the optics make this a non-starter.

  • formerlyjames

    Our colorful prison history does include outsourcing prisoners until the late 1940s. It was abolished, even in that more conservative era, due to outrageous abuse of prisoners by right wingers. Those thieves then went to work in the financial industry.

  • formerlyjames

    tillis, I don’t know if you are aware, but Perry has an ongoing love affair with the Zionists fascists in Isreal and has been their honored guest many times.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    yoshi
    .
    If you are talking about this post…
    .
    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/04/17/the-odd-leap-in-the-interrogation-memos/
    .
    then I hardly see anything to apologize for. Ed Morrisey himself proclaims that he WANTED to be able to defend Bybee against his critics. He just basically couldn’t because it was right there staring him in the face. But he didn’t denounce torture in this post. In the end basically he was more concerned with legalese than anything else as he concludes with.
    .

    I understand why they did, but it still violated the statute.
    That’s what was wrong with John McCain’s assertion that a president could just break the law and hope Congress justified it later, rather than rewrite the statutes to make plain what could be done in the “ticking time bomb” scenario. The law is supposed to hold all people equally accountable. If we foresee a need to work outside the law, then change the law to make sure it covers those situations.

    .
    He still doesn’t see anything wrong with the torture, just that the legal opinion wasn’t sound. Sorry but that doesn’t exactly impress me. Definitely not a day later after many many people had already pointed out the folly of Bybee as well as Bradbury.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    “And again, I think people around the world appreciate that we’re not suggesting we are holding ourselves to one set of standards and we’re going to hold you to another set of standards; that we’re not simply going to lecture you, but we’re rather going to show through how we operate the benefits of these values and ideals.”
    .
    For example he is going to let US war criminals get off scot free for which the world ought to learn an important lesson, don’t believe a word Obama says.

  • sacredh

    That’s what TIME gets for only posting a couple of threads for the whole damn weekend. We’ve all turned into pirates and are hijacking at will. Where’s piratewench when we need her?

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    yutsano
    .
    Even if you did that in California the costs of security and additional officers along with having to transport and feed said prisoners would even out the pittance that the prisoners are paid to work in those fields. At best you might break even. At worse you would end up paying all kinds of insurance deductibles, you might have a big prison break which would ruin whomever implemented the program, or you would see more people in specific states sentenced to prison sentences by judges in bed with big ag business. The potential to corrupt that system would just be too much for most scoundrels to pass up.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    SG — Can you imagine the speed traps in little podunk towns that would demand two weeks in the county jail in lieu of a fine so they could constantly feed their labor pool. Ask Chuck Norris, if he ever becomes president of Texas I’m sure he would think about it even though he had an episode of Walker Texas Ranger that had to put a stop to a scheme just like this.

  • yutsano

    Wow…I hijacked a thread and I wasn’t even trying! I’m with you Sacred, MORE WEEKEND THREADS!!!

  • sacredh

    sgw: Red state scoundrels? I already have a low opinion of the extreme right wing. It crosses my mind that we could have defacto slavery disguised as a budget measure. The sheriff in Arizona that brags about feeding his prisoners on less than a dollar a day comes to mind.

  • sacredh

    They need to feed us more brain food. MS could have at least brought it to our attention that they can grow weed year round in Cuba.

  • yutsano

    BTW y’all I saw most of those flaws as well, you could accuse me of stirring the pot. I was thinking of the model of how WA rewards good behavior in jails by giving them highway clean-up duty. It’s a relatively small number of prisoners and watchers over them, and I haven’t heard of too many issues with that system. I could just be overthinking this whole thing.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    sacredh
    .
    Actually I think there would be equal opportunity scoundrels. I come from Memphis where some of the most corrupt Democrats in the country reside. I imagine if there was a dollar to be made they would be in on it too.

  • yoshiattack

    SG:
    Ed’s point was quite simple. Waterboarding is defined as torture under current statutes, so it is illegal.
    -
    “The more obvious conclusion from the statute is that procedures creating an “imminent threat of death” in and of themselves create lasting severe mental pain, which is what makes them torture.

    “Bybee turned 2 (C) on its head in order to justify the waterboarding request.”
    -
    Yes, you and I disagree with him in that we believe waterboarding should be completely off the table. But he wrote in support of the law and in contradiction to waterboarding, because it is against the law. You’re splitting hairs to call him a sucky patriot.

  • yutsano

    Actually I think there would be equal opportunity scoundrels.
    -
    The corruption of power knows no party identification. Which is why we need to be watching the Dems now like hawks over mice in a wheat field.
    -
    BTW thanks for the heads up on Balloon Juice Sgw. Nate tends to get rather lean on the postings on the weekends as well, and it gets DEAD after around 4ish at work on the weekends. I can only stare at sports scores and slow moving Swampland posts before I have to tear my brain out of my head!

  • http://ancestrys.linkedz.info/2009/04/19/the-obama-foreign-policy-doctrine/ Topics about Ancestrys » Archive » The Obama Foreign Policy Doctrine

    [...] Swampland – TIME.com placed an interesting blog post on The Obama Foreign Policy DoctrineHere’s a brief overviewPresident Obama has an ability to issue coherent, Op-Ed-length answers during press conferences that is currently unmatched on the American political stage. Today, at a press conference in Trinidad, NBC’s Chuck Todd asked Obama to describe the “Obama doctrine” for foreign policy. At first Obama joked that it would be up to the press to write the “definitive statement on Obamism.” But then he said the following, which reads to me as just about the clearest, most succinct statement yet of Obama’s [...]

  • sacredh

    Wouldn’t it be hilarious to go into your bank and see Bernie Madoff working as a teller in an orange jumpsuit? I guess there are plusses to consider.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    yoshi
    .
    The problem is you think that I think Morrissey sucks as a patriot simply because of this particular issue and nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is not that I even think he is necessarily some level more unpatriotic than other people. My thing is he definitely not the chest out patriot of all patriots that he Malkin and the rest of the wingnutosphere put themselves out to be. Dissent was wrong for the Bush administration and unpatriotic according to them, now that Obama is President they treat dissent as a badge of honor. Not only dissent but overheated hyperbole. Like I said I won’t be taking back a word I said about Morrisey. Probably not ever.

  • yutsano

    Wouldn’t it be hilarious to go into your bank and see Bernie Madoff working as a teller in an orange jumpsuit? I guess there are plusses to consider.
    -
    Call it a feeling but I bet Bernie ends up in Club Fed. Or some posh minimum security prison somewhere with lush grounds and bungalows.

  • formerlyjames

    yutsano, the country club prisons don’t exist. That is another RW myth.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    By the way, for those who hadn’t heard, the Spanish Judge is going ahead with investigations and prosecutions of Bush officials for torture over the objections from the prosecutor
    .
    http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/node/27480

  • sacredh

    Considering all the people he cheated out of their savings…my choice would be medical experiments.

  • formerlyjames

    sg, I am not happy about that. I want our own DOJ to do something.

  • sacredh

    Maybe an surprise organ donation or two.

  • sacredh

    Should have been an “a”. I blame it on the wine. I’m such a cheap date anymore.

  • yutsano

    (Godwin’s Law violation warning)
    -
    Maybe an surprise organ donation or two.
    -
    A little too Nazi concentration campish for me. Plus who would want a 70ish year old kidney that Maddoff treated Lord knows what way?

  • sacredh

    David Crosby comes to mind. You’re right about it being to extreme.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Michael me lad – ye need t’ be remindin’ th’ sheriffs t’ pr’vide threads in an adequate number – this weekend be particular lackin’ an’ th’ crew be a trippin’ all o’er themselves tryin’ t’ find a place on deck t’ be havin’ their say! It be gettin’ mighty crowded ‘ere, mate!
    .
    How be tha’ sacred, me hearty?
    .
    Arrgh!

  • formerlyjames

    I have no interest in torturing or causing great pain to Madoff other than imprisonment for what is left of his life and devestment of what is left of his estate. Even his heirs sould not benefit from what he has done. Let him die in prison and burn in hell (if there is such a place).

  • formerlyjames

    Yeah, MS, I be agreein wi’ de pirate wench. You could do a little more here, assuming you were lounging in the islands with the President. He joked about it at the beginning of his press conference, you guys having a rough morning after a wild night on the town. All kinds of material here for blog posts. Few here even know where Trinidad is, and what’s the deal with Port o Spain? It’s been very slow in the Swamp.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    The Obama Foreign Policy Doctrine in three words:
    .
    Lead by Example.
    .

  • FlownOver

    As long as we’re going rogue in this post, I’d love to hear Scherer’s thoughts about this insight from Our Ms. Cox.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    flownover — AMC’s comments would have more merit if the job done by the rest of the village was really any better. A puppy story by any other name still smells like sh#t.

  • soylent green

    “Lead by Example”
    .
    As in, investigating and prosecuting (let alone punishing!) war crimes is “retribution” or “revenge”, and shouldn’t be even considered, instead “looking forward”.
    .
    You can bet that this will be a problem when it comes time for the United States to get someone who tortures one of OUR people brought to justice. I’m sure that Obama will be singing a different tune when, not if, that happens.
    .
    After all, it’s not like the United States has any moral authority left on the subject, is it?

  • http://sinisterbutterfly.wordpress.com/ jwbates

    @formerlyjames

    yutsano, the country club prisons don’t exist. That is another RW myth.
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderson_Federal_Prison_Camp
    .
    I thought that I remembered “Camp Cupcake” back from the days of the Martha Stewart story.

  • http://sinisterbutterfly.wordpress.com/ jwbates

    @jwbates

    On the other hand, this article doesn’t make it sound all that much like a country club:
    .
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1008/p01s01-usju.html

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    It may be an age thing but most of the time I don’t have a clue what Cox is talking about but obviously she has been paying attention when she describes the following:
    .
    “The day of a typical White House correspondent consists, literally, of waiting to be told things. Legitimate security concerns and a tightly scripted political world keep the presidential press corps physically corralled and informationally hostage. ”
    .
    One sees this every Sunday morning when the news elite goes through the motions of parroting the talking points of both sides, during the same conversation. At one moment they sound like Rove’s ambitious young nephew, and the next, an Austin Marxist. The reason none of them are talking about Obama giving war criminals a free pass is because neither side wants them to talk about that right now. God forbid they would ever bring it up themselves. However, their unyielding loyalty to party rhetoric has opened up great opportunity for those not encumbered by the same constraints.

  • formerlyjames

    @jwbates, that was funny, answering your own post. Even the easiest prison is still a prison. Regimented, institutional, scheduled, controlled, not fun. Even home detention in your own environment is not pleasant. It’s all about freedom, coming and going, and doing as you please. Not being subjected to other beings, intrusions, and noise that you don’t like, or being able to escape it. The worst prisons are that multiplied several times, plus physical and psychological harm. A country club prison is a myth. I speak from experience, but not inside, which is your worst nightmare, but from outside, and even watching it is not a happy thing to behold. But, for some, that’s the only possibility. And for some, it’s home.

  • yoshiattack

    SG, you might fairly tag Malkin with that label, but Ed is a lot more nuanced than that. Most of his posts are free of the incendiary language and pretentious mockery that goes on in the rest of the blogosphere. Allahpundit is even more far off from the stereotypical Republican blogger.

  • http://sinisterbutterfly.wordpress.com/ jwbates

    @formerlyjames
    .
    It’s all about freedom, coming and going, and doing as you please. Not being subjected to other beings, intrusions, and noise that you don’t like, or being able to escape it.
    .
    I can appreciate that. My parents sent me to summer camp.
    .
    I still bear the scars.
    .
    (I’m making a joke, but I’m not making light of your point.)

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    yoshi
    .
    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/04/10/president-pantywaist/
    .
    Thats my last argument on your dear Ed Morrisey.

  • yoshiattack

    All right, fair enough SG. That was obviously an excess. But note that he gave Obama credit for doing the right thing in the pirate hostage situation.

  • formerlyjames

    @jwbates, I haven’t seen you here before, but you have a wonderful sense of humor. Thanks!

  • formerlyjames

    @jwbates, you have a wonderful sense of humor. Thanks. If this repeats, it’s because I think one attempt failed.

  • formerlyjames

    I think I got put in moderation. That hasn’t happened in a while. A pox on the high sheriffs.

  • formerlyjames

    Nevermind, it appears something has crashed, either on my pc or on the Swamp.

  • yutsano

    You sorted out now FJ?

  • formerlyjames

    yutsano, yes, thank-you.

  • maurice2u

    While this is far from enough to make a conclusive decision about the idea of using prions labor, forcing people to work as penance for crimes committed against society (it is always “the people vs. X” is a far cry from slavery.
    .
    Slavery is forcing people to work as penance for being born a certain race/class/gender in all substantial cases in history.

  • maurice2u

    The whole concept of “sucky patriotism” simply diminishes an argument and those who present it before it even gets off the ground. In fact, the idea of someone not “being patriotic” is comical and absurd in today’s social context.
    .
    It is simply another method of applied absolutism. Another means to say that if one person does not prescribe to your way of thinking, they are wrong. This is the same old ‘my way or the highway’ approach that the former administration evoked, leading to such things as the Axis of Evil moniker, and other poorly chosen positions.
    .
    The most ironic part of that is we are (supposedly) the most diverse and ‘free’ nation on the planet. As such, we are full of many different view points, races, religions, etc. The idea that having different views on how to express one’s dedication to their country could some lead to being unpatriotic (que: anti-American) in the land of accepted differences is the type of nonsense historians will laugh about a century from now.

  • http://sinisterbutterfly.wordpress.com/ jwbates

    …make a conclusive decision about the idea of using prions labor…
    .
    Enslave the mad cows!

  • cfukara

    ” .. if we occasionally confess to having strayed from our values and our ideals, that strengthens our hand ..”

    It SHOULD NOT – unless ..
    “Occasionally”?
    No, NO!
    That should read “always whenever we sin”.

    And then we should not forget the admonition that follows, “Go and sin no more”.

    We seem to subscribe to a view held by some churchgoers and wayward priestly pedophiles who sin furiously on weekdays so that they have compelling reason to go to church on Sunday with a fat contribution that maybe guarantees them forgiveness.

    Then they start all over come Monday.
    And we learnt little from Hitler – and here are the Palestinians and the indigenous American Indians.

    And learnt even less from My Lai and the Nazi camps – so here comes Sabra and Attila, Abu Ghraib, Baghram, Guantanamo and the torture chambers of Israel.

    We learnt little from our murderous involvement in the saga of the elected leaders Allende and Lumumba – and so here is the stain of the elected leader Saddam Hussein. And so on …

    .

    ” ..other countries have different cultures, different perspectives, and are coming out of different histories, and that we do our best to promote our ideals and our values by our example…”

    If we are talking about “a set of universal values and ideals” then we cannot lay claim on these as “our ideals and values”. But we can refer to our particular (subjective) version of those ideals and values – a version that may not lay any claim to moral superiority.

    In any case, it may be said by one evaluating our history that we are a poor guardian of the set … So why would we do our best to promote what we observe rarely and only when convenient and profitable to do so?
    For instance, our is often often referred to as “A Culture of Lying”.

    What wieght should we attach to the “ideals and values” of the man who preaches “The Brotherhood of Man” when his slaves toil, sweat and die in the inhuman ignominy of bondage?

    Often we are “promoting our ideals and values” by our guns and the government’s and quasi-government NGO’s oppressive overreach in the countries. For instance, consider how we are systematically going about disrupting the social fabric of the Arabs in the Middle East.

    Consider the issue of Muslim hijab or Hindi sari – for kids who prefer to wear it in western schools instead of the short skirts that lay bare half of a girls’ body or the all-black satanic garb or the half-way-up jeans that expose the buttocks? [As if a preoccupation with exposing ones' nakedness - and the attendant incidence of promiscuity, pedophilia and teenage pregnancies - promotes learning ..]

    But that is another topic for another time. Suffice to say that we should not feel godly while preaching to others about “ideals and values” for they may as well preach to us about same.

  • bacalove

    GOP operatives (Party of No and Darkness), are now criticizing Pres. Obama because he showed strength of character and decency by not engaging in a school yard brawl with leaders who are supposed to be engaging in Dipolomacy! This is leading by example rather than getting petty and in the gutter with leaders who were allegedly disrespectful to the U.S. Those leaders are the ones who looked weak and ignorant, not Pres. Obama. GOP says to stay calm and positive is weak, but to be strong one must get angry and blown out of proportion like a leaf in the wind when one is provoked. I say rather that it shows strength to maintain one’s position of calmness to stay fixed in one’s position to be a peacemaker and to show others and the world that the U.S. President does not get down in the gutter when others are throwing barbs at him and it shows Discipline. GOP claim “he allowed himself to be Disrespected”! How could one allow themselves to be disrespected, however, Pres. Obama could himself have become disrespectful to others and made the U.S. look bad if he had engaged in tit for tat, but that is the old way, and Change has come to the U.S. We know longer have a Cowboy in the whitehouse, but a peacemaker and diplomat who shows us that we do not have to get angry when others get angry with us. We don’t have to get that way!

    Yesterday, while watching Pastor Charles Stanley who preached on staying silent in the face of evil, and that we had to show the strength of character that Jesus Christ did when confronted with enemies and confrontation — that is to be silent and not engage in the confrontation but to stay responsible with the response given in the face of such challenges!

    That is what Pres. Obama did — who continued to radiate the energy of goodwill and kept his cool in the face of childishness adversity and really showed leadership qualities and also emulated Christ’s teachings….., the teachings the GOP frequently profess they live by. Really?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    why would we do our best to promote what we observe rarely and only when convenient and profitable to do so?
    .
    Is it preferable to pay lip service to the good while doing evil or is it better to be unrepentantly evil? I’d suggest that it’s better to claim to do the right thing and fail than to not even acknowlege that such a thing exists.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    yoshi
    .
    Thought you might want to read this wrt the DHS report
    .
    http://mediamatters.org/items/200904200003

  • spob

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124018641207933423.html
    .
    Some wonders from the Obama foreign policy team.
    .
    And I guess just listening means that we listen to Lula tell us that an 8 year old American boy gets to stay in Brazil.

  • gysgt213

    Looks like little Ms. Harmon has got some splaining to do. Not only was she caught on NSA wiretap, but it was a legal one too boot. Making matters worse her actions in covering up for the Bush administration are there for all to see.
    .
    Most won’t make the leap, but I will.
    .
    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

  • yoshiattack

    Yeah SG, now that I remember it, they didn’t include the VFW point of opinion.

  • http://martinperez.asia/?p=2075 Barack Obama’s World View « AKOMISMO by Martin Perez

    [...] | In Essays and Commentaries | No Comments Tags: Politics, Government, Barack Obama, foreign policy Michael Scherer of TIME caught it very well. In a press conference, Obama delivers an intelligent, thoughtful response that [...]

  • spob

    http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/20/obamas-gun-lies/
    .
    Yeah, michaelscherer will tout Obama’s ability to spout platitudes, but won’t call him out on a lie. Gotta love that tough journalism at Time Magazine . . . .
    .
    So anyone in here care about the little American boy kidnapped and brought to Brazil? Lula basically gave Obama the Heisman.
    .
    And michaelscherer, what of Obama’s comments that Ortega couldn’t have been talking about him since Obama wasn’t president when some of those things happen. I guess patriotism is defending your country only for things that happen on your watch.

  • hold2file

    Conservatives and other Gullible Old Poopheads fail to realize that Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rove have more in common with “Hitler” than Obama and Biden.

  • FlownOver

    There’s a huge difference between defending your country and defending some self-righteous jerk who, for a time, manipulated the governance of your country for the benefit of his rich cronies.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    spob once again thinks that throwing sh!^ at the wall and hoping something sticks bears any relationship to actual discussion.
    .
    Relevance=0

  • gysgt213

    Who the f**k is Lula?

  • spob

    The point, FO, of course, is that when someone is attacking America, we expect the President of the United States to defend it from unfair attacks, not worry about whether the attack was personal. Translation: “Barack, it ain’t about you.” Besides, what business does Ortega have attacking the US anyway?
    .
    http://www.njjewishnews.com/njjn.com/040209/njSenatePressuresBrazil.html
    .
    Predictably, Barack the listener, got the Heisman from Lula when Obama brought up this issue.

  • FlownOver

    Gunny –

    I met her in a club down in old Soho where they drink champagne and it tastes just like Coca-cola.

  • http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/wehner/62872 Commentary » Blog Archive » The Obama Doctrine

    [...] a new conference yesterday, President Obama took a shot at defining the Obama Doctrine. Here’s my effort at defining it: The Obama Doctrine means criticizing [...]

  • spob

    Better sh%& on the walls than in your head, PD.

  • FlownOver

    Correction, for the sake of the rhyme scheme: it tastes just like Kooka-koola.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    pourmecoffee said it best
    .
    Obama under fire from GOP for not shooting spitballs and doing “*cough* bullsh*t *cough*” during Ortega speech.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    The GOP keeps whining about Obama not defending the country. They just don’t understand that it’s not what they call you it’s what you answer to.

  • 53_3

    spob:
    .
    Newt Gingrich (bless his cancer victim hating heart) said that his meeting with Chavez will be turned into propaganda.
    .
    Ok, say it is. A country of 25 million people.
    .
    That only begs this question:
    .
    What in HELL are you doing?!?!
    .
    Um, spob, you are so stupid I’ll give you a hint:
    .
    It is claimed that there are 22 million dittoheads…

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    53_3 — These people are so stupid for the sake of the gene pool I hope someone has made them wear a sigh or something.
    .
    They constantly act like children and get mad because Obama acts like the adult he is and they seem foolish.
    .
    Newt is desperately in search of a reason to assume the mantle of leadership and so far the only thing he’s managed to come up with is that he’s not Obama. Unfortunately, that means he has to find a way to tear Obama down so here we go with smilegate.

  • spob

    Dee, the issue with Ortega was that the thought it was about him. Get that right, ideologue. Remember, Obama’s comment about Ortega’s speech was that Obama’s reaction was “Hey, it wasn’t a criticism of me.” Time was, of course, that people took offense when their nation was criticized.
    .
    As for Chavez, Obama’s joking with a tinpot dictator is embarassing.

  • spob
  • 53_3

    Dee:
    .
    They are bringing ‘concern trolling’ to a level never before seen by man.
    .
    Newt made Rush.

  • FlownOver

    Troll tip: Anyone who links to powerline automatically negates any credibility he/she may have had.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla
  • FlownOver

    When others take issue with something done in our country’s name, the only people who automatically take offenseare those who can’t (or won’t) distinguish between our flag and the principles it’s intended to represent.

  • spob

    “chess not checkers” . . . . isn’t that cute?

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    FO
    .
    Isn’t there an unwritten rule about criticizing the President when they are on foreign soil? Funny how that only works for Republicans when a Republican is President huh?

  • Ike Jakson

    I wonder what Sarkozy in France will say about this? Oops, now I remember he has already spoken. Greetings to U, my friend sacredh!

  • cfukara

    Paul Dirks Says:
    ” .. I’d suggest that it’s better to claim to do the right thing and fail ..”

    So, the Al Queda claimed to do the right thing (that is, bring down the evil empire) and failed … Did they do the “better” thing? We are hunting them down with the righteous christian bloodlust in pursuit of gore and death evident in our, eh, flared nostrils, right?

    I once watched a documentary in which a mafia boss claimed that the mafia do, or always strive to do, the right thing by the society never kill anyone who does not deserve it. Is that what we have in mind for the USA?

    Remember, Hitler? He didn’t consider himself be a bad man. Neither did Pol Pot.

    Bush #43 and Rumsfeld consider themselves to be doing the right thing – and failed. Are they to be admired? If their “shock and awe” blitzkrieg had not lasted more that a few days, you and I would be singing their praised as heroes.
    Just as JK may sing the praises of – or at least not mention some uncomfortable murderous facts about – one named Menachem Begin and perhaps Rahm Emmmanuel’s father.

  • http://mistermoleman.com/2009/04/20/the-obama-doctrine/ The Obama Doctrine? « Mister Moleman and his Friends

    [...] a new conference yesterday, President Obama took a shot at defining the Obama Doctrine. Here’s my effort at defining it: The Obama Doctrine means criticizing past [...]

  • Ike Jakson

    Message to my new friend sacredh. One of your comments in the Swampland Blog where we first met prompted me to do something especially for you. It is funny [and clean I promise] but I am not an Internet Junkie and it includes a photo that of the old Granny that forms part of the Post. I have had to learn to place photos but so far the only place I have managed it is in my Blog at WordPress. I first sent this note there but I think you had moved on by then and I only traced you in this new Blog again.

    Please go there and leave a comment for me if you wish; that way I will know you have seen it. Here is the Url. I promise it will give you a good laugh as a lawman.

    http://ikejakson.wordpress.com/2009/04/14/aussie-law-enforcement/

    It goes you well, my friend.

  • cfukara

    ” .. yesterday, President Obama took a shot at defining the Obama Doctrine. “

    The more things change, the more they remain the same.

    .

    Bush #43 and the USA skipped the last world conference on racism. Despite a well-received talk on racism, HBO has followed suit and skirted the current conference on racism (Do we see in this the oppressive heavy hand of Rahm Emmanuel and the tiny Jewish demography in USA?)

    .

    HBO goes to Israel and makes a very public, very ethnic thing about attending meetings in the Jews’ synagogues, remembering the Jewish dead and going to the sites where bombs fell.
    Prayer at Muslim mosques, anyone? Any visit to the many scenes of Israel’s destruction and death in Arab lands? A visit to the Sabra and Shatila site of massacres?
    Like Bush #43 HBO is is likely to try to end the Jews-Palestinians feud – by arming the Jews and unequivocally supporting them at negotiations and World forums.

    .

    Then there was the spectacle of our POTUS #43 being summoned off a golf course so that he can receive instructions from a foreign leader (of Israel) on what the stand of the USA should be at the UN.
    Your desire is my command. Done.
    So far, HBO has not shown a willingness to break loose from a grip of parochial supremacist interests and become a leader of the free world, instead of a follower of the foreign land of Israel and its Jewish interests. [Thus for the next 4 or 8 years , the view (from behind) for the USA will always be same – and stinky.

    For it said that a philosopher-king cannot make a good POTUS.

    Welcome to the world of duplicity.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_12160486

  • http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obama_doctrine/ Obama Doctrine

    [...] Crook, Thomas Barnett, Dan Drezner and even Barack Obama give their thoughts on what an Obama Doctrine for American foreign policy might be.   Over at New [...]

  • http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/04/21/pres-obamas-fantasy-foreign-policy/ The Greenroom » Forum Archive » Pres. Obama’s fantasy foreign policy

    [...] to describe the “Obama doctrine” for foreign policy, Pres. Obama could not help but get a bit defensive: And the — as a [...]

  • http://blatheringsblog.com/?p=2106 what is the obama doctrine? | Blatherings Blog

    [...] himself was asked to define the ‘obama doctrine’ and not surprisingly, he obliged. typically, there isn’t a lot there, so you can go read it yourself because i’m not [...]

  • http://freedomlibertyshow.com/2009/05/episode-4/ Episode 4 | Freedom and Liberty
  • http://trueslant.com/level/2009/07/05/did-joe-biden-just-embrace-the-bush-doctrine/ Michael Roston – Newsbroke – Did Joe Biden just embrace the Bush Doctrine? – True/Slant

    [...] President Obama was asked to articulate the “Obama doctrine” in a press conference, he outlined a series of points that focused on cooperating with nations toward mutual goals. Furthermore, in his May 21 speech at [...]

  • http://patterico.com/2009/04/21/pres-obamas-fantasy-foreign-policy/ Patterico’s Pontifications » Pres. Obama’s fantasy foreign policy

    [...] to describe the “Obama doctrine” for foreign policy, Pres. Obama could not help but get a bit defensive: And the — as a [...]

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