Max Baucus and the “Public Plan”

For the new issue of dead-tree TIME, I have written this short profile of Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, a most unlikely figure to have emerged as the point man for health care reform in the Senate. (The print version also has a chart detailing the highlights of Baucus’ own health reform proposal, which you can read about in detail in the White Paper that he produced last November.)

What didn’t make the print edition story was a part of the interview in which I asked Baucus about one of the most controversial elements of both his plan and President Obama’s–the so-called “public plan,” a option in which people would have a chance to enroll in a Medicare-like publicly financed health system. The insurance companies hate this idea, saying it is would be unfair for them to be forced to compete with the government. Many health care experts, however, argue that this provision is crucial, as a means of holding down health care costs. (The idea being that the government would use its muscle–much as it does in the Medicare and Veterans Administration programs–to negotiate lower reimbursement rates.) Conservatives oppose it as well, because they see it as a first step toward a Canadian-style single-payer system.

What Baucus had to say will not give much comfort to those who support the idea of a public plan as it is presently being proposed. He strongly suggested that its main value, at this point, is as a bargaining chip to get the health insurance companies to agree to other things that reformers want to see:

“Essentially, it’s to keep it on the table to encourage the private health insurance industry to move in the direction it knows it should move toward—namely, health insurance reform, which means eliminating pre-existing conditions, guaranteed issue, modified community ratings. [TRANSLATION: Measures that would force the insurers to cover the sick as well as the healthy, at a cost that everyone could afford.] It’s all those actions that insurance companies must take in order to provide affordable coverage. And the public option helps encourage the private companies to move in that direction, because they’re worried. We might have to modify the public option to get enough votes. I hear some concerns among Republicans about the public option. The main purpose is to keep the health insurance feet to the fire.”

Indeed, there are signs that the insurance industry may be willing to make concessions like the ones that Baucus mentioned.

President Obama also seems open to compromise on this aspect of health reform. In an exchange earlier this month with Republican Senator Chuck Grassley, the ranking Republican on Finance and an opponent of a public plan, the President had this to say:

“I recognize, though, the fear that if a public option is run through Washington, and there are incentives to try to tamp down costs and—or at least what shows up on the books, and you’ve got the ability in Washington, apparently, to print money—that private insurance plans might end up feeling overwhelmed. So I recognize that there’s that concern. I think it’s a serious one and a real one. And we’ll make sure that it gets addressed, partly because I assume it will be very—be very hard to come out of committee unless we’re thinking about it a little bit. And so we want to make sure that that’s something that we pay attention to.”

So is there a middle ground on this question? One idea to keep your eye on: a proposal recently put forward by Len M. Nichols and John M. Bertko of the New America Foundation, which would put a public plan on a similar financial footing as the private insurers. It wouldn’t be able, for instance, to rely on government subisidies, and would have to charge premiums that actually cover its costs. Nor could it require providers to serve public plan patients as a condition to participating in Medicare.

Here’s what Harold Pollack of the University of the Chicago sees as the pluses and minuses of this approach:

In my view, the public plan’s bargaining power over providers is a feature rather than a bug. If insurers can’t match that, that’s a strike against private coverage rather than an argument against the public plan. Sure, cost control through government monopsony raises genuine concerns. So does every other cost control measure in the real world. Per dollar of reduced spending, I wager that the resulting distortions would be less burdensome, less intrusive, and more inefficient than those likely to result from private actors cutting costs in other ways.

Yet the ultimate merits may be beside the point. Nichols and Bertko’s constrained public plan would have weaker tools to control costs, but it would still provide many important benefits to patients and to the entire healthcare system. It would provide a backstop for chronically-ill people who feel badly-served by private coverage. It would provide a benchmark competitor for private plans. It would provide an organizational structure for key health system innovations.

Most important, it might actually exist, which makes it far superior to some excellent alternative that dies in Congress for lack of a half-dozen critical votes. Moreover, health reform won’t end with the passage of any single bill. Congress could always step in and fix the program later. They will probably have to, if as I fully expect, this self-constrained public plan structure proves too weak for effective cost control.

Like I said, it bears watching.

UPDATE: Gov./Dr. Howard Dean on the public plan.

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  • kathy

    This is interesting. Howard Dean, who has been very vocally supporting Obama’s plan, has said it simply won’t work if there’s not an option for a public plan.

  • spob

    What are they going to do about tort lawsuits?

  • Karen Tumulty

    kathy: thanks for alerting me to the dean statement. it just dropped into my emailbox, and i added a link as an update.

  • FlownOver

    Competition among insurance carriers has been tried, and plainly hasn’t worked, largely because they spend billions on efforts to deny benefits and more billions on paperwork for the benefits they do pay. If we don’t have the restraining influence of a public plan alternative we’ll wind up only with private insurance options that curiously resemble one another – and meet the need little better than at present.
    .
    There’s a legitimate public need here, and if the private sector won’t meet it (as they sure as Hell haven’t to date) the necessary remedy is availability of a public plan. If this is anathema to right wing True Believers, let ‘em put their money where the ideals are and pay for the private coverage that matches their ideology.

  • FlownOver

    What about tort lawsuits indeed? Contrary to liability carriers’ propaganda, malpractice premiums vary inversely to insurance carriers’ market investment returns, not directly with jury awards. Besides, I’m not anxious for a system that tells Doctor Foursome he needn’t do his best work on me.

  • stuartzechman

    Fantastic job again, KT.
    .
    What didn’t make the print edition story was a part of the interview in which I asked Baucus about one of the most controversial elements of both his plan and President Obama’s–the so-called “public plan,” a option in which people would have a chance to enroll in a Medicare-like publicly financed health system.
    .
    The biggest question –not for you, apparently– that every commenter here should be asking themselves, IMO, is:
    .
    Why the f*ck didn’t that key question (and key answer) make it into the dentist-office edition?
    .
    So is there a middle ground on this question?
    .
    Is there truly a middle ground between the interests of the health insurance lobby, and the interests –and obvious, loudly overt desires– of a great majority of the American people?
    .
    The question really shouldn’t be whether there exists a middle ground, but why a middle ground between what Americans want and don’t want needs to exist at all. This post has a slight tendency to regress toward a phony mean, KT.
    .
    …it bears watching.
    .
    You want outrage KT?
    .
    F*ck bonuses. We’re out here, and we’re watching, alright.

  • cdservais

    Ms. Tumulty,
    Ezra Klein criticized Dr. Dean’s stance on the public option yesterday. Klein says, regarding the public option:

    But it’s hardly the main determinant of real reform: It’s more the most politically controversial element of reform. And though I’m glad to see progressives fighting for it, it shouldn’t become the be-all end-all determinant of success. You could imagine a very poor health reform that includes a public option and a pretty good health system with no public option at all.

    Someone needs to tell me who is right and why.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    cdservais
    .
    I am no expert on healthcare but what I would ask Ezra is to describe a “very poor health care reform” that involves the public option. I would love for him to have to quantify that statement.

  • stuartzechman

    KT:
    .
    Regarding the Dean statement, I signed a Dean For America email petition yesterday insisting that Obama consider the public option, and I noticed this diary from Dr. Dean up at DailyKos.
    .
    I’m willing to come on out with a prediction, KT.
    .
    If Democrat Scott Murphy wins Kirsten Gillibrand’s former House seat in New York’s 20th district in the March 31 special election, we’ll see the House include a public option in at least one version of a Health Care Reform bill –perhaps even the version that passes the House.
    .
    Other predictions, anyone?

  • FlownOver

    I’d be more eager to see a description of “a pretty good health system with no public option at all.” Or maybe a unicorn.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    FlownOver
    .
    The reason why I chose the very poor option with a public option is because I think you can sell a dream about a good health system with no public option at all because thats what we have now and many people misguidedly will holler out “its the best in the world”. But I think it would be harder to come up with an explanation of how you could have a bad system that has a public option.

  • redraven937

    There is nothing at all surprising about the inability of capitalism to produce a private, free-market health insurance plan that works in favor of the people subscribing to it. Health insurance is not like car insurance where there is an incentive on both sides to not have to utilize it – people need to use health insurance, all the time. It’s time to sync health insurance to an entity that has the exact same incentive to keep people healthy as the people have themselves. Otherwise we will continue to have wildly escalating costs as private insurers continue to invent even more convoluted scenarios to deny claims and then have people subsequently declare bankruptcy due to medical bills (and we all end up paying for anyway).

  • cdservais

    FlownOver,
    Why can’t they prescribe a minimum insurance level that every insurance policy must cover, and that every insurance carrier must offer to anyone who wants it, and then give a tax credit to every consumer that buys it? That would not constitute a public option, and could be provided along with all the other reforms that are being suggested.

  • stuartzechman

    SG:
    .
    Ezra’s getting hammered in commentary over that position. Here’s a sample:
    .

    Giving away a key negotiating point (public option) early in the process is not a very good strategy.
    .
    Posted by: fusion | March 25, 2009 5:20 PM

    Nothing weird about the line. Rather, for an American system to evolve to the most efficacious form (single payer) we need a public option.
    .
    You may find it weird, but it is hardly a trivial fact. American healthcare has more insurance stakeholders than others and thus without the public option an evolving system will skew in their favor rather than the publics.
    .
    In the past, you have reinforced your opposition to single payer, or admonished its adherents and doubted its bona fides. But I disagree with your assesments and its a good thing Howard Dean does too.
    .
    Regarding Dean’s past politics:
    .
    This may be earth shattering, but often people change positions depending on where they sit. Dean was a Governor, hamstrung by the constrictions of an office holder at a time when universal healthcare was a more dangerous issue.
    .
    Today, he is a relative outsider with much more flexibility to express himself. Leaving office frees one to do as they please.

    .
    Posted by: jeff | March 25, 2009 5:36 PM

    .
    See, KT? Ezra has good, critical commentary over there, too.
    .
    Remember Ezra isn’t at all against the public option, and trumpets its superiority. He’s just saying that it shouldn’t be a deal-breaker, and that’s pretty stupid as a matter of policy and politics to essentially give up that negotiating point now.
    .
    Because of Ezra’s defense of his own use of anonymous administration sources, I’m actually very leery right now of his actually holding that position honestly. I don’t know that if his proximity to and dependence on the Obama staffers who make up his sources may be affecting what he’ll come out and say about the Administration’s public-less plans, but this post of his is rather odd, given his record.
    .
    Needless to say, I’m in total disagreement with Ezra Klein on this one.

  • stuartzechman

    I should clarify: Ezra doesn’t think that it’s “pretty stupid”, I think that it’s pretty stupid of Ezra.

  • stuartzechman

    Ezra Klein does what a good reporter/blogger does when criticized for a position: he comes out with more comprehensive information.
    .
    Kudos for Ezra, even though he’s wrong.

  • stuartzechman

    …except that Ezra is actually right!
    .
    By clarifying that he means the compromise positions on the public option aren’t deal-breakers, he makes a fantastic case.
    .
    Well done, Ezra (my leeriness about the effect of his sources stands)!

  • cdservais

    stuartzechman,
    If you can’t get “measures that would force the insurers to cover the sick as well as the healthy, at a cost that everyone could afford” in a health care reform bill out of committee without compromising on the public option, what good does your principled stand get you? I believe they must prioritize which reforms are most important based on what will improve system wide quality, efficiency and cost. Mr. Klein says “things like subsidies, Medicare’s negotiating power, delivery system reform, comparative effectiveness, and system-wide integration are probably much more important than a public insurance option.” If taking a stand on the public option kills reform in this cycle, it is not worth it. There will not be another chance for another 8 years.

  • Mad As Hell

    This post rocks, Karen, and stuartzechman is a great health care commentator.

  • Karen Tumulty

    mad: apparently SZ plays a pretty good guitar, too:
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing_Westward
    .
    as for me, i’m going to tell you i honestly don’t know who is right here. a few more little tidbits, however, that i picked up in the reporting:
    .
    baucus and kennedy seem to be working well together, and are aiming at producing a single bill, or two that can be easily melded on the senate floor.
    .
    the thinking is, as soon as they have a bill, they really have to get it through quickly, because the opponents will mobilize in a flash. (right now, the old gang from 94 doesn’t have anything to shoot at.) who the opponents will be, precisely, i don’t know. presumably, business now has a stake in success that they didn’t 15 years ago. insurers are salivating at the idea of expanding their own market by 45 million-plus. but i still think the pushback is going to be pretty strong. which makes me wonder about baucus’ opposition to using reconciliation (see my story on that point), and whether the rest of the democrats are going to overrule him.
    .
    one argument against using reconciliation: remember that it is going to take years to implement whatever passes (if anything does). and if it doesn’t have reasonably broad support, it can be picked apart and undone during those years, which will include several elections.
    .
    keep an eye on the question of how they fund this thing. taxing health benefits could be a big gift to the opponents. it is easy to imagine the attack ads on that one.

  • Matt

    The fights between the House and Senate – and the White House – over the direction of heath care reform will be brutal.

    http://www.political-buzz.com/

  • Tom in The Swamp

    I can easily imagine a good health system with no public option for any but the aged and the impoverished, but it requires that most hospitals and all health insurance plans be non-profit organizations. It wasn’t so many decades ago that this was the way our health system worked. It’s time to require all health insurance providers to practice “community rating” again.

  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    May I just say that it’s a wonderful thing to have a reliable place I can go to find great reporting and intelligent commentary. Right now I just get angrier every time some bobblehead on teevee opines about shelving health care for a few years more. May they all discover the hell that is being unemployed, with a pre-existing condition. My chronically-ill son graduates from college in a year, and that’s the ticking clock on our personal mantel.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    You know I wish someone would ask if private insurance, market forces are so superior to everything else then why are they so afraid of a public option?

  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    I just keep wondering if there’s danger of the health-insurance equivalent of sub prime mortgages for “undesirable” insurance risks. That may just be my paranoia talking.

  • sacredh

    I’m all for a single payer system. The system we have now makes a ton of money by treating the symptoms rather than the causes. The more you go back to the doctor/hospital the more money they make. If you just stop to think about it, the single payer system has a built-in incentive to get us healthy and keep us that way. They’ll want to keep the costs down. What better way to keep the costs down than to educate us on how to stay healthy? For my entire life I have witnessed a dysfunctional system that treated common sense like the plague. We had a group at the top that managed to convince enough people that OUR happiness and ability to make it in the world depended on THEM getting the lion’s share of everything. Everything had to be done their way because they somehow knew better. They didn’t know what was best for us. They knew what was best for them and managed to have their way. Well, the pooch has been screwed too many times and public opinion has finally reached the point where we don’t believe them anymore. It took a financial collapse but people are finally thinking for themselves. I predict change is coming. Soon.

  • stuartzechman

    cdservais:
    .
    You bring up some very good points, but I disagree.
    .
    First, the quote you cite from Ezra Klein is eclipsed by his later post, in which he clarifies that he has “doubts about this debate’s importance to health reform“. These doubts stem from a premise –largely confirmed by KT’s stellar reporting– that a true, if minimum public option (what he calls “Single-Payer Lite”) is off of the table, i.e. not even under consideration.
    .
    So in Ezra’s opinion, we are really left debating the inclusion of two other “public” schemes, which he labels “The Level Playing Field Plan” and “The Catch-All”, both of which he correctly identifies as being meaningless to real reform. Since these “single-payer” compromises are meaningless, he’s willing to forgo them –especially the debate over them.
    .
    If some liberals want to define success in terms of a true, relatively unrestrained, public plan, that makes sense. But the compromise measure, though it may be good policy on its own terms, does not rise to the level of game changer or deal breaker.
    .
    Ezra’s just telling us that –inexplicably– there will be no “true, relatively unrestrained, public plan” up for consideration, and so defining reform in terms of a lesser option is a mistake, and politically counterproductive…and he’s absolutely right.
    .
    For example, look at how he describes this horrifying compromise “The Catch-All”:
    .

    • The Catch-All.
    .
    I’ve heard that the insurance industry and some advocates are interested in a compromise that looks a lot like Medicaid choice. Here, you’d have a public insurance option, but only for people making under a certain income level. It’s a way of folding Medicaid into the new system.

    .
    Absurdly casual anonymous sourcing aside for a moment, this is the worst f*cking idea I’ve ever heard of. This isn’t a compromise, it’s guaranteed suicide and perhaps repeal.
    .
    Let me explain why, because it fits into why I disagree with this un-clarified premise: “…subsidies, Medicare’s negotiating power, delivery system reform, comparative effectiveness, and system-wide integration are probably much more important than a public insurance option“.
    .
    You see, when you (essentially accuse me of purity trolling) describe the debate in terms like “what good does your principled stand get you?“, you miss a great deal of the argument for the public option in the assumption that this is all about ideology, and not about practical politics, cdservais. I believe my position is actually superior on the politics than yours, but with a crucial difference: I think that the politics before the passage of Health Care Reform is of equal or even lesser importance than its politics after it gets done.
    .
    You see, this is Obama’s Iraq war after 9/11. In the year after the most terrifying economic conditions the country has faced in three decades, the level of economic insecurity in this country combined with the enormous popularity of the man (and the low popularity of Congress) and the high level of popularity of the idea itself virtually guarantees that –short of some unforeseen disaster– we will see Health Care Reform, this year, from this Congress. We will get Health Care Reform.
    .
    The question is: will the American public like it or will they hate it? Will it be Social Security, or will it be Prohibition…or, more accurately, the Great Society Welfare State?
    .
    Unfortunately, the answer that question depends a lot on factors having to do with the actual value of the plan, and not so much to do with the things that make it a sale to Bryan Dorgan or Kent Conrad –the factors that sell the bill before passage.
    .
    The best case scenario is that we get Social Security II: the victory that guarantees the Democrats something to run on for the next half a century, the program that lifts ordinary Americans out of the terrible insecurity that faces every one of them, red, blue, whatever. There will never be a repeal of Social Security –it works too well, it actually delivers what’s promised. It’s not perfect, but its crucial to the lives of so many. It provides confidence to the American public about their personal futures in way that no other program –even defense spending– can. Social Security is popular because Social Security works for the country.
    .
    Part of the reason why it works so well is political. It is because there is no means-testing: if you are an American, you get it. It is truly mandated retirement insurance. Nobody gets more than anybody else, nobody pays an unfair share, everybody collects. It is telling that the most effective arguments against Social Security (the “fix it now before it’s too late” claims) have been effective precisely because they argue that people tomorrow won’t get what people today enjoy. The argument against is an argument for equal treatment.
    .
    The worst case scenario is that we get Great Society welfare. Welfare. The worst case scenario is a well-working program that everybody has to pay for, but that some people get at low cost or for free, while everybody else gets to keep what they already have. That’s f*cking suicide in ten years. That’s death. That’s another politician like Clinton coming along in a decade after Republicans gain power again, and running on “changing health care as we know it” or “work for health care”.
    .
    In the list of these factors: “subsidies, Medicare’s negotiating power, delivery system reform, comparative effectiveness, and system-wide integration“, the most important to providing the actual benefits of the program is this subsidies.
    .
    Without subsidies, this doesn’t fly. Unfortunately, “subsidies” translates to the thing that everybody hates about public programs and bureaucracies in the US: means testing. It means filling out forms, providing proof of income, and jumping through all of the hoops required to get the government to help you when you’re getting welfare. The worst part of welfare isn’t even for those who need it, it’s for those who don’t.
    .
    We have not made the leap in this vast, mind-bogglingly heterogeneous country to embracing the presumed good faith of our neighbors, the way countries like Korea and Sweden do naturally –because they are essentially of the same ethnicity and culture. When people pay for help that other people consume, and that they themselves do not have access to because they’re not poor enough, we have the opposite of social security, and we have a perpetual populist tension with the program that will turn out to be political death. If “Health Care Reform” turns out to be something that only other people get, it will be gone or effectively gone in ten or so years like Prohibition –or subject to a 30 year killing fields backlash like the Great Society.
    .
    The only way out of this trap is to provide a public option to every single American taxpayer. The only way to avoid setting classes of people –and let’s face it races of people– against each other, and getting ourselves right back into the “welfare queen” and “undeserving underclass” battles again, is to institute the policy in such a way as to allow everyone to buy into it, regardless of income –just the way that Social Security operates.
    .
    Plus, it will actually transition us off of this horrid, inefficient, grossly expensive and unfair system sooner. Everyone in this debate presumes, overtly or covertly, that the public option will eclipse the private options for a majority of Americans, and this is because it will work.
    .
    There will not be another chance for another 8 years.
    .
    I fully agree, cdservais
    .
    If we fail to do this now,in the moment in which we have the most leverage, the most political capital, the most popular support for the program (73 percent support the public option), we will not get another chance to enact Social Security II.
    .
    If we fail to include a real public option, we are simply setting ourselves up for what happened over time to Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society welfare state: a populist-based rightist backlash. That’s why we must pass Health Care Reform this year –but it must be real Health Care Reform that includes a true public option, otherwise it is just Health Care Welfare.
    .
    Thanks for reading and considering this, cdservais.

  • stuartzechman

    KT:
    .
    Thanks for the compliment on my guitar-playing. It’s been a long time since anybody’s done that…actually, I run into people who say something to me about how they loved song X every so often. It’s weird. I don’t look that different, I suppose.
    .
    The best thing about not playing guitar for a living is that I don’t wake up in the morning and find the guitar inexplicably in bed with me anymore.
    .
    It’s funny; Lovely Bride wants to hear me play more, and she’s been bugging me for weeks to take the guitar I have in the house to this place a few blocks from us in the East Village, in order to have its strings changed, set up, etc. She doesn’t realize that it’s a custom Epiphone signed by John Lee Hooker.
    .
    It’s nice that she likes when I (rarely) play. I guess she’s getting a professional concert at home!

  • sacredh

    SZ: I sure hope someone in the White House is reading Swampland. If they could make the arguments to the public that you’re making on here, reform would have a much better chance of getting passed. Thanks for your efforts.

  • pseudonymous in NC

    Ezra Klein has yet to expand properly upon his conception of a “pretty good health system with no public option at all.” good reform without a public option. He may be thinking of something like the German system.
    .
    More significantly, he hasn’t explained how, absent a public option as a political tool to get the private insurers in line, reform can result in something like the German system. Private insurers are behemoths; it requires a behemoth-sized weapon to reform them, and that weapon is the public option.
    .
    Now is the time to strike the hardest bargain possible with Big Insurance, and if Ezra is wibbling on the politics of sausage-making, then he can step aside.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    There is nothing at all surprising about the inability of capitalism to produce a private, free-market health insurance plan that works in favor of the people subscribing to it.
    .
    Can we get that engraved somewhere? A big problem with our debates nowadays is that people have had ‘free markets’ preached to them for so long that they treat it like some kind of magical diety instead of a simple mechanism to allow for the pricing of goods and reasonably efficient way to allocate resources.
    .
    There are many problems that markets are unable to solve because no participants have a finacial stakes in the solution. I still think that Hog Manure Odor Abatement represents a perfect example but there are many others. Pig farmers don’t mind the smell and their neighbors have no recourse but to use government to hold the farmers accountable for the problem. So we can either shut down the hog farms thus directly interfering in the ‘market’ or create incentives or spend public funds to deal with the problem.
    .
    There are way too many people who aren’t willing to think such problems through and way too many others who have a strong discentive to even talk about it.
    .
    Of course hogsh!^ isn’t the only example but ever since John McCain decided to make fun of it, its remained one of the most accessable.

  • johnsonfamily2

    Here, here Stuartzechman, I hadn’t though of why the other ways won’t work. You do it so vividly. And I second the outrage that the most juicy bits don’t make it into the print edition. Why not, indeed!

    Paul Dirks: people have had ‘free markets’ preached to them for so long that they treat it like some kind of magical diety.

    It’s all that MBA and undergrad business school indoctrination.

  • formerlyjames

    KT and sz, I have been trying to follow this thread, but it was a nice break to look up Stabbing Westward. sz admirers can hear him all over youtube. Check out ungod. Thanks.

  • stuartzechman

    Ack…that’s old and uncool now.

  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    I snooped around your stuff a while ago, Zechman. All I can say is play while you can. I broke a finger on my right hand about a year and a half ago and it ended my days as an amateur fiddler. No evidence on YouTube, but we’re on MySpace.

  • stuartzechman

    Here is a brilliant take-down of Ezra’s current (bizarre) position.
    .
    The unspoken implication is that Ezra has gotten a little too close to the Administration and its thinking through the usual “too close to your sources” problem journalists face.

  • http://www.124monkeys.com Sean DeCoursey forgot his password

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Selling single payer off of the success of TriCare and the military medical system is a winning plan. People like the army one hell of a lot more than they like their insurance company.
    -
    I also don’t understand why the White House isn’t aggressively pitching every corporation besides the health insurance and drug companies on a single payer, or at least the “public” plan. Making the trade with businesses of no more health care costs for a universal system with a tax hike is a winning deal in every single CEO’s book.
    -
    I mean Detroit would be profitable right this second if you took away it’s current and legacy health care obligations. This whole debate really is a success of the few and privileged over the many. I also wonder how much differently this would be portrayed among the media and politicians if everyone in DC didn’t have great health care personally.

  • stuartzechman

    joyomama:
    .
    I never, ever really played for fun.
    .
    It’s always been a serious thing for me…it’s about being great. Not good, but great.
    .
    Art is a disease, joyomama.
    .
    I’m just glad it’s in remission now.

  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    Now THAT I can understand. For me, the disease is teaching in its worst form — pedantry — and music is the cool afternoon breeze of relief. Or was — I do miss the fiddle.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Selling single payer off of the success of TriCare and the military medical system is a winning plan.
    .
    As evidenced by the fact that the VFW screamed bloody murder at the very Thought of any of it being shifted to private coverage.

  • stuartzechman

    I also don’t understand why the White House isn’t aggressively pitching every corporation besides the health insurance and drug companies on a single payer, or at least the “public” plan.
    .
    …because President Baucus is the decider?
    .
    Just like Presidents Collins and Nelson were for the stimulus?

  • rose83

    I never, ever really played for fun.
    .
    It’s always been a serious thing for me…it’s about being great. Not good, but great.
    .
    Art is a disease, joyomama.
    .
    I’m just glad it’s in remission now.

    .
    stuart, Well said. I envy people who have an aptitude for hobbies. I’ve only found one thing that’s just fun, and nothing more or less: photography. And I am grateful for that.
    .
    joyomama, that’s so unfortunate. I hope you find something else.

  • stuartzechman

    …and, right on cue a single-payer plan bill is offered in the Senate:
    .

    Challenging head-on the powerful private insurance and pharmaceutical industries, Vermont’s Sen. Bernie Sanders introduced a single-payer health reform bill, the American Health Security Act of 2009 (.pdf), in the U.S. Senate Wednesday. The bill is the first to directly take on the powerful lobbies blocking universal health reform in the Senate since Sen. Paul Wellstone’s tragic death.
    .
    The single-payer approach embodied in Sanders’ new bill stands in sharp contrast to the reform models being offered by the White House and by key lawmakers like Senators Max Baucus (D-Mont.) and Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.). Their plans would preserve a central role for the private insurance industry, both universal coverage and cost containment during the worst economic crisis since the Depression.
    .
    In contrast, Sanders’ new legislation would cover all 46 million uninsured Americans, and improve benefits for all Americans by eliminating co-pays and deductibles and restoring free choice of physician.

  • didaktikos

    Please repeat after me: Routine healthcare is not an insurable event. An insurable event is a risk that applies to a population but will not strike every member of that population–like home fires. We buy insurance for home fires because we do not expect to have one but it would be devastating if we did have one.

    Routine physicals, vaccinations, oral prophylaxis, and the like are not insurable events. They are predictable and nearly universal life events.

    I’m a single-payer guy because I believe that a single payer will reduce costs and the transactional burden of health care. Insurance cannot do so because the insurance model of health care is fundamentally broken.

  • lupercal5

    tx KT and everyone wh’s made a contribution so far, especially SZ on whether less is more when it comes to the (long-term) political implications of a real public option.
    .
    but im sorry to be a contrarian to most here on whether or not a private insurance system is sustainable. if we have robust regulation that are extremely incisive and made publicly available for public consumption (image the aig bonuses of health care industries if they’re exploiting regular folks), then you take away half of the problem. u can use a regulatory framework to reduce price inflation and keep the nominal price near the actual price.
    .
    i’d argue that it might even be superior to having only the public portion of the healthcare system invest in new technology. there’s nothing as toxic as asking politicians to make sustained investments in things intangible for the next 15 to 20 years.
    .
    besides, the funding of such a plan comes into play. i think the only reason we should really have a public plan is because the gov’t isn’t looking to make a profit. so its prices are slightly lower even if unsubsidized after the costs of entry investments. that will force the industry to adapt to the non-crippling reduction in costs.

  • bitterpill8

    I read all the posts. Is medical care an option for anyone of us? I can understand buying car/fire/travel/funerals costs insurance. But I have never understood health insurance.

    I know it is fashionable in some quarters to assume government can never provide satisfactory health care. But why can’t we decide on a basic level of care that is available to all; and allow those who want private wards which look like five star hotels to buy extra coverage.

    The US health care is a joke, and a bad one at that. When it drives people into bankruptcy it says it all.

    To inject some reality into Washington let all the pols, villagers and lobbyists pay their own premiums. Let’s see how they react.

  • gysgt213

    The Quiet Coup. By Simon Johnson
    .
    The crash has laid bare many unpleasant truths about the United States. One of the most alarming, says a former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, is that the finance industry has effectively captured our government—a state of affairs that more typically describes emerging markets, and is at the center of many emerging-market crises. If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform. And if we are to prevent a true depression, we’re running out of time.
    .
    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    I know it is fashionable in some quarters to assume government can never provide satisfactory health care.
    .
    Unfortunately its not just a fashion. It’s a full blown religion and it’s golden rule is contained in your sentence:
    .
    government can never provide

  • bitterpill8

    Thanks, Paul. So true. I guess I am influenced by what happened to my brother 10 years ago in Canada: cancer of the throat – major sugery – excellent post-operative care, follow up and free prescription for one year, home visits, voice traing so he can speak using a Blomsinger.

    We talked about his taxes and mine. Turns out we both pay about the same state, local and all kinds of taxes at point of sale level, except that I pay separately and lots for medical insurance. He does not.

  • rose83

    It’s so frustrating to not have the time to contribute to a fascinating health care thread…
    .
    I will say however that the pessimism and defeatism inherent in most dismissals of single-payer – why would America have to spend almost twice as much on health care as its economic competitors? – is astonishing. That doesn’t automatically make these criticisms wrong – maybe America is just inherently weaker and less economically competitive than these countries, although it’s a strange argument for politicians to be making – but it does make it breathtakingly cynical.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    “It’s a full blown religion and it’s golden rule is contained in your sentence: government can never provide”
    .
    Who could have imagined thirty years ago that a campaign slogan would become the dominant political philosophy. And I don’t even blame this on conservatism, because by definition any effort to maintain the ways of the past could not come up with a sincere desire to paint government as a completely inept institution in the same breath that they tout the genius ofd our forefathers,
    .
    If the truth be told it was a campaign gimmick designed to overcome the essential problem of a Democratic philosophy that focused on the welfare of the many by framing any good work that government performs as identical to a frustrating trip to the DMV.
    .
    Now we all know that the DMV is under resourced and under manned so if you live in a place with long lines and this turns out to be your only direct interaction with government how could you not come away with a perception that government = bad, private = good. But this is far from the truth but no one championed the governments side. So now we have a country that believes any well run program must be private and what you find is when you point to a government success you’ll have people insisting that Medicare is private — go figure.
    .
    The GOP has done this deliberately and with fore thought and no one in the media has challenged their decision to assassinate the character of government because conflict is in their best interest — or so they thought. But just as it turned out that getting rid of government has not turned out to be such a good thing for private industry, it turns out that 24/7 conflict at all costs is ushering in the death of journalism.
    .
    What we need is a little patriotism — of course I don’t mean the flag waving drop the bombs first kind of a John McCain, nor do we need the kind that the tears the country down at every turn while accepting a life style that is obviously a by-product of practices that are being railed against. We need an adult version that says enough! We are in deep sh1t so business, politics, media, citizenship as usual must stop right now. It’s all on the line and so for the next six months we are going to suspend self-interest. No matter who you are, what party you belong to, what industry you represent, your class, ethnicity, gender, etc. If you speak you will be held to three basic principles: 1) that you know what you are talking about (evidenced base data only), 2) that your sole motive is to improve the position of the country as a whole (not the advancement of only segments of our society–no more red/blue state mentality), and 3) it is completely devoid of hypocrisy. Otherwise we will take a lesson from the Amish and we will publicly shun you. This means severing any ties to you politically, socially, financially and intellectually.

  • stuartzechman

    From the comments section at Ezra Klein’s blog comes a very revealing criticism of the idea that government should be involved in the provision of health care.
    .
    Try to read this dispassionately, Commenters:
    .

    Would you like to go to a private swimming pool on a hot day or a public pool?
    .
    Would you prefer your children attend a public school or a private school in order to get a first-rate education?
    .
    Why would anyone believe that government-run public insurance will not follow the same pattern of other public services?

    .
    Posted by: El Viajero | March 26, 2009 9:47 PM

    .
    If Health Care Reform is seen by the general public through the lens of “Health Care Welfare” because of what we get passed this year, we’re back in “tax ‘n spend liberals”-land for a generation at least.
    .
    We cannot fail this time –we must not.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    This requires some intellectual honesty to combat. Of course I would prefer a private swimming pool unless of course the private pool was maintained by that Georgia peanut butter company that spread salmonella nationwide.
    .
    I would also prefer private school unless it was run by John Cassano of AIGFP, the KBR electricians or any member of the Bush administration’s inner circle from 2004 forward. Okay make a list obviously there are a lot of others who would also give me pause. We have to stop pretending that government is all bad and private industry is all good.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    How exclusive would your private swimming pool or private school be if there were a law in place stipulating that no one could be denied admission independent of ability to pay?
    .
    It isn’t the ‘government run’ part that determines how well something operates its the ‘open to everyone’ part.

  • afguy

    I just know I’m going to hate myself in the morning for asking this but . .
    .
    Where’s QH/Hula? Shouldn’t our favorite troll be right in the middle of this thread, slowing the flow of the discussion like a bad prostate?
    .
    It’s just not right, not having to scroll over multiple postings of gibberish to get to the good stuff.

  • parodox

    The problem with not having a public plan available is that we will still be stuck with some form of the current system where insurers will make every effort to get out of paying any charge that they can, and hospitals will do everything possible to avoid taking patients who can’t pay. The result is that the doctor and the patient are stuck in the middle and 25 cents of every health care dollar goes to insurance overhead and 15 cents of the same dollar goes to collecting the bill. The result is that only 60 cents of every health care dollar goes to taking care of sick people.

  • bitterpill8

    Red herrings all. We are not talking about swimming, schools, where to take a holiday. We are talking health. If one cannot see the difference then there is little point dealing with such arguments. I heard the President say, yesterday, than after having chemotheraphy his mother was on the phone arguing with her insurer about payments and eligibility. There is something profoundly wrong with that picture.

  • rose83

    Who could have imagined thirty years ago that a campaign slogan would become the dominant political philosophy. And I don’t even blame this on conservatism, because by definition any effort to maintain the ways of the past could not come up with a sincere desire to paint government as a completely inept institution in the same breath that they tout the genius ofd our forefathers,
    .
    Dee, well said. I honestly believe that many progressives respect conservatism more than republicans do. I actually think it’s unfortunate a coherent serious conservative alternative isn’t being offered now; intellectual debate is healthy but Limbaugh’s radical Republicans aren’t providing it.

  • afguy

    We have to stop pretending that government is all bad and private industry is all good.
    .
    Let’s face it – future technologies for which there is no immediate payoff is NOT something that the totally free market (with its desires for immediate profits) is very good at doing. The creation of the Internet comes to mind as a case in point. Had a private company even made the attempt and succeeded, the result would have been patented and copyrighted and we would be paying through the nose for the privilege of doing what we are now. The greater the cost of the research, the less the chance that anyone will make the investment to do it without some guarantee of immediate profit.
    .
    Ditto the space program. What would we be missing as a society if someone hadn’t decided 40 years ago that we needed to go to the moon by the end of the ’60s? Would we have the communications structure that we have today? Who would have paid to develop the rockets to launch the large comm satellies?
    .
    Look at how little has been done in the past couple of decades, compared to what was accomplished in that period ealier. Does anyone think that any private concern would have been willing to fund anything resembling the US space program if it had been simply a matter of profit?
    .
    Do remember that the Challenger disaster occurred in large part when safety took a back seat to what was described at the time as the type of decision that businessmen make every day. Our shuttle program is still suffering from that event. It’s coming to the end of its service life and we have NOTHING to replace it with at present, because the free market capitalists running the country couldn’t see how a buck could be made from it.
    .
    Stuart once mentioned a “failure of imagination” on another topic and I think that’s what has been happening in our recent past with our leadership. I’m hoping that Pres. Obama can bring back a little of that inspiration I can remember when I was growing up.
    .
    I do wish that the financial field had used a little less imagination and innovation with CDS/derivatives, etc. but that’s what happens when your “best and brightest” are encouraged to enter fields where there are only so many ways to make your mark, and ALL are extremely lucrative.
    .
    Unfortunately, given our present fiscal problems, many may think we can’t afford to be too imaginative at this time. I don’t think we can afford NOT to be.
    .
    Be it in outer or inner space, I think that government has a role in our future that the private sector simply is incapable of assuming at the present, either financially or just simply because they have shown a failure of long-term vision over short-term profits.

  • pearlybaker

    What are they going to do about tort lawsuits?

    Nothing. The incompetent doctors that caue the majority of the lawsuits will be banned from reimbusement by the public plan. Th gov’t will police the doctors since the AMA refuses to do so.

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  • FlownOver

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