False Choice

In this op-ed in today’s Washington Post, Jackson Diehl argues that there are strong similarities between Barack Obama and George W. Bush, and asserts that Obama’s decision to pursue health care reform can be compared to Bush’s to go to war in Iraq. Each, he suggests, is a “war of choice”:

So Obama hasn’t strayed far from Karl Rove’s playbook for routing the opposition. But surely, you say, he’s planning nothing as divisive or as risky as the Iraq war? Well, that’s where the health-care plan comes in: a $634 billion (to begin) “historic commitment,” as Obama calls it, that (like the removal of Saddam Hussein) has lurked in the background of the national agenda for years. We know from the Clinton administration that any attempt to create a national health-care system will touch off an enormous domestic battle, inside and outside Congress. If anything, Obama has raised the stakes by proposing no funding source other than higher taxes on wealthy Americans, allowing Republicans to raise the cries of “socialism” and “class warfare.”

Just as Bush promoted tax cuts as a remedy for surplus and then later as essential in a time of deficits, so Obama has come up with strained arguments as to why health-care reform, which he supported before the economic collapse, turns out to be essential to recovery. Yet as he convened his “health care summit” at the White House on Thursday, the stock market was hitting another 12-year-low; General Motors was again teetering on the brink of insolvency and the country was still waiting to hear the details of the Treasury’s proposal to bail out banks. George W. Bush might well be asking: Is the president taking his eye off the ball?

I agree that we should think about General Motors as we decide whether it is the right time to finally do something about health care reform. But that brings me to the opposite conclusion: If we don’t fix our health care system, everything else we do for the automakers may well be a waste. That’s because health care costs are one of biggest things that are killing this country’s auto industry. Detroit is spending more on health care these days than it is on steel. Diehl might read this story that his colleague Ceci Connolly wrote in 2005:

American manufacturers are losing their ability to compete in the global marketplace in large measure because of the crushing burden of health care costs, General Motors Corp. chairman and chief executive G. Richard Wagoner Jr. said yesterday as he called on corporate and government leaders to find “some serious medicine” for the nation’s ailing health system.

In a speech at the Economic Club of Chicago, the auto executive, who is responsible for providing health insurance for more people than any other private employer in the nation, graphically detailed how rising medical bills are eating into his company’s bottom line and ultimately threatening the viability of most U.S. firms.

“Failing to address the health care crisis would be the worst kind of procrastination,” Wagoner said, “the kind that places our children and our grandchildren at risk and threatens the health and global competitiveness of our nation’s economy.”

After spending several years on the health policy sidelines, Wagoner is launching a mini media blitz, hoping the competitiveness argument will be the one that finally prompts lawmakers to take on an increasingly expensive system rife with inefficiencies and inequities. Wagoner said he intends to press his case personally in Washington and with the nation’s governors.

Though self-interest may be at the heart of Wagoner’s crusade, he and a range of corporate leaders and policy analysts warned that GM’s woes are a harbinger of what lies ahead.

“GM is the canary in the coal mine for Medicare and everyone else,” said Sean P. McAlinden, chief economist at the nonprofit Center for Automotive Research. “There are many, many more companies out there in trouble because of health care costs than just the auto, steel and airline industries.”

McAlinden, a labor expert sympathetic to union views, said many in Washington have mistakenly concluded that GM and other carmakers are simply whining about costly union contracts.

“GM and the United Auto Workers didn’t cause this double-digit inflation in health care,” he said. And if GM pushed for sharp reductions in health benefits, the powerful union would likely strike and send the company into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, he predicted.

Last year the automaker, known for its innovative approach to health care, spent $5.2 billion to cover 1.1 million retirees, employees and their families. Prescription drugs cost GM $1.9 billion, and the company projects overall medical spending will increase by $400 million this year. That could be offset by a provision in the Medicare drug benefit to pick up a portion of firms’ retiree drug costs.

But the figure that prompted Wagoner to raise his voice is $1,500. That is the amount of money added to the price of every single vehicle to cover health care, a cost that his foreign competitors do not bear.

“The cost of health care in the U.S. is making American businesses extremely uncompetitive versus our global counterparts,” he said. “In the U.S., health care costs have been rising at double-digit rates for many years. In 2003, they were about 15 percent of GDP, at least 30 percent higher than the next-most-expensive country.”

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  • fourlegsgood

    It’s nonsense. Individuals cannot avoid health care, and the time is past when American society can ignore it.

  • fourlegsgood

    Let me add as well that Paul Krugman has often made the point that big auto fought health care reform in the past (in the US) while they were simultaneously support it in Canada.
    .
    Fixing health care is both the smart thing to do and the right thing to do.

  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    I was struck by this “Obama has come up with strained arguments as to why health-care reform, which he supported before the economic collapse, turns out to be essential to recovery.” I certainly don’t see his arguments (before for after the economic collapse) as “strained”. I wish someone would ask Diehl for an explanation for this characterization, which suggests that the arguments are weak.
    .
    Of course, I notice his portfolio at the WaPo is foreign affairs, which might explain his cluelessness (but not why his opinion was deemed worthy of ink by the WaPo overlords). His well-documented conservative bias explains the rest. He’s probably good to have around when people complain about the liberal press, though.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    K-Tum, that is perilously close to media criticism.
    .
    About time. Others have taken Diehl apart more brutally, including the most excellent JedL in:Obama is (not) like Bush because… and Steve Benen in: OVERLOOKING THE CHANGE…..
    .
    This is really weak. For one thing, the comparison is silly — a deadly and costly war that should have never been fought bears no resemblance to health care reform. For another, the policy dispute over health care probably will “touch off an enormous domestic battle,” but that doesn’t make the idea Bush-like — Obama is delivering on the platform on which he campaigned. By Diehl’s logic, any president that proposes any kind of ambitious policy proposal is reminiscent of our failed 43rd president.
    .
    KT, Diehl should – no MUST – be mocked for drivel like this. And that mocking should be coming from their peers in the MSM.

  • Ivy_B

    I suggest that people like Diehl, congresspeople, etc. all be dropped from their current coverage and be required to find their own health care on the open market right now. After that, they may get the sense that there is a problem for many, many people.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Lookie who became a media critic. LOL just teasing K Tizzle but you and I both know its just an example of lazy journalism. Its much easier to come up with some grand mound of bullsh*t, color the lines in and say “Aha they are exactly the same!” than to get into the weeds of just how different the approaches really are. Hell President Obama isn’t controlling any financial data and shaping it to convince people the economy is tanking. Hell he was calling for action on the economy last year when the idiot brigade including John McCain kept saying the economy was just fine. Isn’t it convenient how certain members of the media have memory loss about that time? You would think the Republicans had been screaming about deficits and job losses and the state of the economy all last year but anybody paying attention knows thats a load of crap. Diehl just figured he would throw some sh*t together and nobody would notice that he didn’t even use common sense let alone any form of research to write that oped. At some point when people write drivel like that they have to pay consequences like not being taken seriously ever again otherwise you can expect more of that coming down the pike.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    sgw, interesting that we both used the word “drivel”, no? John Cole had a relevant observation a short while ago:
    .
    … the last few years have been really eye opening for me. I was never one of the Republicans who thought the media was liberally biased. I always felt they were just lazy and superficial (and MoDo is a fine example) and on issues outside their safety zone (faith and religion, for example), and they just were not equipped to discuss them. However, it becomes more and more clear every day that the media is not biased towards liberal or conservatives, but rather, it is simply in the business of defending the status quo for the wealthier members of society. The reason social conservatives and progressives both hate the media is because they really don’t care about either group or their issues. This is about protecting the amassed wealth of the few.
    .
    The past couple of weeks we have faced nothing but story after story about how the market (translation, the folks who created this mess) are nervous about the Obama plans, when no one will admit that the “markets” will only react positively to bail out after bail out with no pain for the people at fault. The same people who created this mess are now bitching about the attempts to fix it, and upset because it might not continue to reward them. The MSM is providing no critical analysis but serves merely as a platform for people kvetching about reverting to the tax rates that were in place just a few years ago. The fact that the same people whose buddies are receiving trillions in taxpayer dollars to fix their mistakes are allowed to go on television and chant socialism is mind-numbing.
    .
    It really is breathtaking (especially since most families in the country just got a tax cut from the Obama administration).

  • plukasiak

    the fact that Jackson Diehl is deputy editor of the Post’s editorial page tells you just how much of a vacuous idiot he is.
    _
    unlike 9-11, which directly impacted only a few thousand families, this economic crisis is hitting tens of millions of Americans. There is simply no comparison when it comes to Bush’s failure to call for sacrifice and Obama’s — Bush presided over a war of choice and chose not to ask Americans to make the necessary sacrifice to pay for it; Obama is faced with an economic crisis in which “paying for it” right now could be counterproductive (although I oppose the tax credits Obama imposed, raising taxes on middle America would have been a bad idea as well.)
    *******
    I certainly don’t see his arguments (before for after the economic collapse) as “strained”.
    _
    I don’t see those arguments at all. While Obama does tie in health care reform to our long-term economic prospects, except for the “health care records” portion of the stimulus bill, there is really no relationship between “economic recovery” and “health care reform”. And the primary reason that “health care records” were included in the stimulus bill is because its necessary in terms of accomplishing long term savings on health care and is the kind of labor-intensive “infrastructure” project that provides the most efficient stimulus to the economy.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    Hey KT, I have a post in moderation. It makes me sad.

  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    SGW – “Hell President Obama isn’t controlling any financial data and shaping it to convince people the economy is tanking.”
    .
    Maybe Diehl is assuming that because Bush did it (with the media’s help, of course), Obama’s doing it, too? I certainly hear some paranoia of that sort. A couple of weeks ago, some Republicans were accusing the Obama administration of using “fear tactics”. I suppose Paul Revere did the same thing, though…

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    I don’t see those arguments at all. Given that this recovery will likely take many years, and given that our current health care “system” imposes an enormous and growing drain on the economy and on people’s attitudes toward the future, I have difficulty imaging a coherent plant for recovery that failed to include health care reform.
    .
    But thanks for noting that Obama did something right by including “health care records” in the stimulus bill “because its necessary in terms of accomplishing long term savings on health care and is the kind of labor-intensive “infrastructure” project that provides the most efficient stimulus to the economy.” It is so unlike you to give Obama credit for anything that I was somewhat taken aback..

  • http://anagelikethis.blogspot.com/ mgale

    Three words: Keep. It. Up.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    BTW, my #11 post was directed to pluk.

  • FlownOver

    OK, then… if this is the best he can do, Jackson Diehl is someone whose views need not be considered. Better to consign him to the category of delusional opinion, to keep company with Cal Thomas.

  • trifecta55

    Sure 50 million uninsured Americans, plus tens of millions of under insured Americans is just like the great WMD snipe hunt in Iraq. Fred Hiatt and his minions really suck.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    OT, but I’ll bet Brook’s inbox is already full of hate mail:
    .

  • stuartzechman

    KT:
    .
    You mention that you agree with Barack Obama’s decision to propose the immediate reform health care, citing the universally acknowledged imperative to reduce health care costs as a rationale.
    .
    Last week on the program Washington Week in Review, David Wessell of the Wall Street Journal asked you the question (my transcription, official transcript unavailable until later this week):
    .
    Your brother was an example of somebody who had insurance. It turned out, as your story says, that the company claimed it didn’t have to cover him, because it was a pre-existing condition, and you actually get some satisfaction out of the state regulators.
    .
    But, is the Obama plan –as best we know– going to do anything for people who already have insurance?

    .
    This incredibly simple, yet powerfully important question you answered by saying:
    .
    Well, what the…ah…their…the two…ah…two big thrusts of the Obama plan…One is to cover everyone, and the other one is to bring down costs for everyone, and it’s really because the costs are so out of control, that…that people are really so insecure about their…umm…you know, about their status in the health care system.
    .
    So…umm…you know, it’s bringing both of those things onto the table, and convincing everybody as a result that they really have something to gain from this.

    .
    That strikes me as a non-answer, KT.
    .
    People in your brother’s situation, i.e. purchasers of insurance from companies committed to paying out as little as possible on a case by case basis until they are literally under threat of legal sanction from state agencies, are both covered and can afford the cost of their premiums, the two conditions you state the Obama plan means to address.
    .
    One of the major points of your piece was that, in and of itself, being insured under the current rules of our system is no guarantee of adequate health care provision or against bankruptcy.
    .
    If the Obama Administration is comfortable with the idea of Federal subsidies for individual families, isn’t there every risk that those families will simply throw their money away on (relative to large employers’ plans) inexpensive premiums that produce very little in the way of either preventative or remedial health care?
    .
    If the Obama Administration is comfortable leaving alone the heterogeneous system of state regulations and enforcement, and the insurers who structure their policies around those realities, won’t that simply mean that amount of situations like your brother’s will increase, KT?
    .
    …Or is there something else left unsaid in your answer to Wessell’s quesiton of which we should be aware?
    .
    I’ll ask you again:
    .
    is the Obama plan –as best we know– going to do anything for people who already have insurance?
    .
    , and add:

    Is there anything under discussion likely to make it into a final plan that will prevent, or at the very least de-incentivize companies like Assurant from effectively defrauding their customers out of billions of dollars of –now the taxpayers’– money?

  • sacredh

    Jackson Diehl must think he’s the journalisitic equilalent of Jackson Pollock. Just throw something up on the canvas and call it art. Diehl’s just throwing words up there and trying to convince us that it means something. The assertion that Obama’s pursuit of healthcare reform can be compared to Bush’s decision to go to war in Iraq lacks any credibility at all. Each, he suggests, is a “war of choice”. That’s like saying a motivational speaker is the same as a hooker that specializes in oral sex because “they both use their mouths to make money”. He’s delusional.

  • FlownOver

    sz –
    .
    Seems to me this is exactly why we need an optional federal program as an alternative to private sector coverage. If public and private coverage are comparably affordable, people will gravitate toward the option more likely to approve than deny coverage. The mere existence of this alternative should provide a significant incentive for existing carriers to moderate their presumptive denial approach.
    .
    It’s an open question whether a government agency can run such a program efficiently, but better a less efficient operation motivated toward delivery of effective care than one more efficient but motivated toward denial of coverage.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    SZ
    .
    But you have to remember some things about Karen’s brother, at least from my reading of her piece. First of all he thought he was covered from policy to policy on a cumulative basis when in fact each policy was a new policy which was how they were able to try to deny the claim because of a preexisting condition in the first place. Second when KT is saying the Obama plan is going to cover everyone that also means, from what I understand, those with preexisting conditions or who are high risk. Basically that helps the people who already have insurance but are underinsured just like Karen’s brother because they have a pre existing condition and or are high risk for certain diseases. Its truly crazy that the people with the greatest need for health insurance in this country have the hardest time getting it. I am sure KT can speak for herself but that would seem like an answer to your question.

  • formerlyjames

    I went to the WP site to view the article and it crashed my browser. That must be some kind of sign, what, I don’t know. The only positive contribution of Diehl’s piece is to display a preview of some of the inane illogic to come during the health care debates.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    But surely, you say, he’s planning nothing as divisive or as risky as the Iraq war? Well, that’s where the health-care plan comes in: a $634 billion (to begin) “historic commitment,” as Obama calls it, that (like the removal of Saddam Hussein) has lurked in the background of the national agenda for years.
    .
    Because everyone knows that causing tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths and devestating a population of millions is JUST LIKE spending a lot of money to improve health insurance coverage.
    .
    Needless to say, anyone who can type those words without retching over himself doesn’t really deserve a reasoned argument to counter him.
    .
    But thank you for doing so anyway.

  • shepherdwong

    Jackson Diehl…Fred Haitt…Deborah Howell…credulously printed and uncorrected lies in the news and opinion pages…reasons why I canceled my twenty-plus-year subscription to The Post.

  • sacredh

    After reading through the responses on this thread, I wonder how much of the general public agrees with Diehl and how many have views similar to ours? Another thing I’ve been wondering is if the conservatives are trying to paint Obama as being similar to Bush because Rush has been portrayed as being the face and voice of the entire republican party? If this is tit for tat, they’d better work some more on their tats because so far they’re doing a lousy job.

  • stuartzechman

    SG:
    .
    …they were able to try to deny the claim because of a preexisting condition in the first place…
    .
    …the Obama plan is going to cover everyone that also means, from what I understand, those with preexisting conditions…
    .
    You’re confusing two issues:
    .
    1) claims denial based on pre-existing condition
    .
    2) denial of coverage based on pre-existing condition
    .
    Even if the plan to which Obama eventually agrees (there is no “Obama plan”) prohibits denial of coverage on the basis of a pre-existing condition –coverage at a premium rate far, far more expensive than normal coverage, it should be noted– what is to stop denial of claims?
    .
    How does subsidized –only for those below a certain income level, it should be noted– super-ginormous expensive coverage for those who would normally be never be able to get a policy “Basically” help “people who already have insurance but are underinsured”?
    .
    If somebody buys a policy that’s a bad payout deal because they aren’t poor enough to qualify for subsidy, and therefore they can more easily afford the lower premiums, what’s to prevent those people from being underinsured, i.e. left with thousands and thousands of dollars in co-pays?
    .
    What’s to prevent the insurance company from simply adjusting their premiums to ginormous levels once a condition emerges, i.e. a claim, and then telling the customer “Go get help from the Federal government –if you qualify for help, that is…“, and deny continued coverage for lack of premium payment, albeit not on the basis of “pre-existing condition”?
    .
    Its truly crazy that the people with the greatest need for health insurance in this country have the hardest time getting it.
    .
    Yes, but it’s also truly crazy that people can buy health insurance that doesn’t actually cover the cost of health care, SG, and only find that out in their time of greatest need.
    .
    In any case, yes, I’d like to hear KT’s answer to a question regarding that distinct issue.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    sacredh, I hope you don’t mind, but I just led a clipping post at my blog with your #18 comment. It just about killed me – and I wanted a few more people to see it.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    sz, thanks for your thoughtful comments. Really good points that I hope are taken into serious consideration.

  • sacredh

    wvng: I don’t mind at all. I’m glad that we have preview because before posting it I thought my original comment was a little on the tasteless side. I toned it down.

  • Art Pepper

    Health care reform is just as divisive and risky as the Iraq war because … it will kill tens or hundreds of thousands of people? … create millions of refugees? … waste trillions of dollars?
    .
    No, because it will allow “Republicans to raise the cries of ‘socialism’ and ‘class warfare.’”
    .
    The wealthy class is starting to sound a bit desperate, and dare I say overwrought.

  • Art Pepper

    Stuart (and others here): I really appreciate your contributions to this discussion. I learn a lot.
    .
    KT: Thanks for the post. Interesting that business is coming around to the idea of health care reform. I hope single-payer options are not getting frozen out of the policy debate.

  • sacredh

    @Art Pepper: Overwrought verging on the hysterical might be more apt. I’ve been having the time of my life since the November elections. After railing for years about the middle and lower economic classes getting reamed by the elite, it’s so hard not to gloat about the shoe being on the other foot now. Every little bit of panic, every cry of consternation, every bulging vein and every red-faced outburst brings a smile to my face. I want to tell them “We’re not even to the main course yet and you’ll never believe what dessert is going to be!”. Then you slap a huge check down on their table and walk away laughing.

  • stuartzechman

    Art Pepper:
    .
    Single-payer options are getting frozen out of the policy “debate”.
    .

    But one proposal apparently not on his table is the dream of many liberals — a government-run system known as single-payer. The health-care plan that Baucus presented last year would give individuals aged 55 to 64 the opportunity to buy into Medicare, but he dismissed the idea that this could open the door to a single-payer system. “America is not ready for single pay,” he said. “We are a bit different from people in other countries. We’re not Europe. We’re not Canada. We’re America … I think we need to come up with a uniquely American solution.” (See the most common hospital mishaps.)

    .
    Problems with the drastically incomplete characterization of single-payer as “the dream of many liberals” aside, thanks to Karen’s superb reporting, we now know that single-payer is not under any consideration whatsoever.

  • exile500

    Karen, I hope you’ll answer this one.

    .

    Joni Mitchell once said that she was ashamed to part of the music industry.

    .

    Do you ever feel ashamed to part of our national media?

  • Cliff

    Just as Bush promoted tax cuts as a remedy for surplus and then later as essential in a time of deficits, so Obama has come up with strained arguments as to why health-care reform, which he supported before the economic collapse, turns out to be essential to recovery.
    .
    I know the common complaint about conservatives is that they’re living in a fantasy land, but I really think a lot of these guys suffer from an acute lack of imagination.
    .
    For instance, spob, apparently, cannot imagine that the government has taken citizens off the streets and imprisoned and tortured them on the basis of little to no evidence, and he can see no recognizable difference between this and the Civil War
    .
    And here we see how Diehl cannot conceive of how the economy and health care are interconnected. I’m no expert on the matter – I can barely wade through s_z’s posts on the health care system. But a moment’s thought gives me half a dozen ways in which the economy and health care are related.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    sacreh, a friend notes that “You are confusing Jackson Pollock with pachydermal diarrhea… And speaking as a former Deputy Chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts, there IS a difference!”

  • sacredh

    wvng: Did he say how MUCH of a difference? I knew there was a significant chance I was going to offend a patron of the arts, but Pollock was the first artist I never cared for that popped into my mind. I have M.C. Escher prints hanging on my walls.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    sacredh: He did not, but I suspect it was considerable. :-)
    .
    I like Pollack, but your imagery was perfection. Plus, I imagine not all of Pollack’s efforts were successful, given that he was throwing paint at a canvas and all.

  • Art Pepper

    sacredh: I don’t know if you’ve seen Pollack’s works in person, but reproductions don’t do them justice. If you’re ever in NYC, the MOMA has some splendid late Pollacks. (To each his/her own, of course.)
    .
    Stuart: Yeah, I noticed that in Karen’s article. I guess I’m hoping there will be pressure to put it back on the table. That pressure would have to come from voters and the media. (The role of the media here would be to keep mentioning it as an alternative, and not let policymakers frame the story entirely.)

  • Art Pepper

    sacredh: I don’t know if you’ve seen Pollock’s works in person, but reproductions don’t do them justice. If you’re ever in NYC, the MOMA has some splendid late Pollocks. (To each his/her own, of course.)
    .
    Stuart: Yeah, I noticed that in Karen’s article. I guess I’m hoping there will be pressure to put it back on the table. That pressure would have to come from voters and the media. (The role of the media here would be to keep mentioning it as an alternative, and not let policymakers frame the story entirely.)

  • Art Pepper

    D’oh – sorry for the duplicate post. I thought my first post with the typo had not actually posted.

  • Aaron

    Which is better:
    .
    - the Washington Post editorial page has abandoned entitlement reform now that everyone knows that health care is the number one driver of those costs?
    .
    - the Washington Post editorial page’s lies condemning Barack Obama’s decision to pursue health care reform are very similar to their lies supporting George Bush’s decision to go to war in Iraq?
    .
    - Jackson Diehl columns reveal a clueless about domestic politics very similar to his neoconservative-influenced ignorance about international affairs that Joe Klein ripped apart in record time just two weeks ago?
    .
    (I may be wrong, but I find it sad rather than funny if Jackson Diehl is really so ignorant about the American economy that he doesn’t understand how interconnected health care and the economy are.)

  • sacredh

    @ wvng and Art Pepper: My apologies to the art world. Having an artist I didn’t care for and Diehl both having the name Jackson was just too easy. The last exhibit I did take in was Salvador Dali’s museum in St. Petersberg. My taste in art tends toward the surreal and the illusions. Just like politics.

  • Cliff

    sacredh – M.C. Escher, hell yeah!

  • dunedweller

    The only similarity between going to war in Iraq and Obama’s fixing healthcare is that a majority of Americans were / are united and feel that something must be done. In the case of Iraq they were united after 9/11, and desperately felt the need need to help any way possible. Bush took that unity and abused it by directing it toward his own distorted agenda. Obama is trying to seize the moment, though times are tough for everyone, to solve a problem at the core of many of the other issues we face. Otherwise there is no comparison IMO.
    .
    Love Pollock’s work – and concur that seeing it in person is far superior to photos.

  • plukasiak

    After reading through the responses on this thread, I wonder how much of the general public agrees with Diehl and how many have views similar to ours?
    _
    very few people agree with Diehl, because his argument is so bizarre.
    _
    There are strong similarities between Bush and Obama however; both tend to make grand statements of principle while leaving to others the interpretation of the principles necessary for their implementation. In Bush’s case, Cheney was doing the job that, under Obama, Blue Dog Senate Democrats have been given control of. In other words, both want to be the “Decider in Chief”, but only insofar as they want to maintain their perogative to say “no” to what others come up with.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    Ah, there’s the pluk we know and cherish.

  • mjshep

    It’s a simple fact that some people just aren’t very bright and hold opinions that are hardly worth the paper on which they are written.

    Diehl is obviously one of those.

    The question remains: why does the Post give them that paper?

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng
  • FlownOver

    sacredh –
    .
    Ceci n’est pas un commentaire.

  • sacredh

    FlownOver: Sorry. I am easily distracted and get off topic.

  • tealtone

    to sacredh, your hooker analogy made me laugh out loud. Thank you for that. Aside from the inane comparison Diehl’s column makes to W’s war, what jumped out at me was his bringing up of GM. What better example could there be of why health care must be addressed and at a national level than a corporate giant sinking under the weight of providing life long coverage to millions of former employees many of whom have been retired now for two or three decades now?

  • sacredh

    @tealtone: You’re welcome. Diehl bringing up GM like he did just showed how little he actually understands about much healthcare costs for all industries. Either he doesn’t understand the enormous costs or else his plan is so good that he never even bothers to think about it. I have the same plan (FEHB) that members of congress have and my doctor co-pays, prescription costs and deductibles still add up to thousands a year. That’s thousands of dollars that aren’t going to buy new cars, electronics, clothes, appliances, eating out and everything else that keeps the economy running. His laqck of knowledge on the subject only adds to the obstacles that Obama has to overcome to reform the system. There are going to be alot of people quoting Diehl as if he knows what he’s talking about. He doesn’t. Mentioning socialism and class warfare isn’t exactly helpful to the situation either. Somebody should tell him that the class warfare he dreads has already taken place and the middle class got their ass kicked.

  • jcapan

    Jackson Diehl, dep. ed. of my once-beloved hometown Wa-Po, surely he must be a liberal, right? And what, pray tell, was that ed-board’s position on the war? Hmmm…
    ~
    I know, I know, 634$ billion pales in comparison to the 2.4$ trillion our presidents (plural intended) will spend in Iraq/Afghan thru 2017, according to the CBO:
    ~
    http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2450753720071024
    ~
    Not sure how the Iraq drawdown and Afghan buildup impacts those fall ’07 numbers, but why is it that our MSM media shudders at investing in American social infrastructure, but they click their heels and salute to the hegemony gravy train? It’s gotta make you t’ink…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “…health care costs are one of biggest things that are killing this country’s auto industry…”

    =======================

    What did Dean Vermer say?

    “Fat, drunk, and stupid IS no way to go through life, son.”

  • jcapan

    Hula–Anyone who quotes from Animal House can’t be all bad.
    ~
    Boon: It’s not gonna be an orgy! It’s a toga party.
    Katy: Honestly, Boon, you’re twenty-one years old. In six months you’re going to graduate, and tomorrow night you’re going to wrap yourself in a bed sheet and pour grain alcohol all over your head. It’s cute, but I think I’ll pass this time.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    What did Dean Vermer say?

    “Fat, drunk, and stupid IS no way to go through life, son.”

    =======================

    But enough about Ted Kennedy.

  • jcapan

    Though in poor taste at the moment, Hula, I’ll give you that.
    ~
    How about fat, drug-addled and stupid to describe the guiding light of the GOP, Rushie?
    ~
    Do you find his Ted Kennedy memorial health bill riff amusing too? Just testing you out, seeing if you can betray an ounce of humanity for a dem. Cuz I always say, when you can’t joke about someone in the opposing camp with brain cancer, what can you joke about? Or fill in the blanks: Bunning, Ginsberg, pancreatic cancer. Sh!ts and giggles or does that give you pause, is there a line you won’t cross? Merely curious

  • yutsano

    JC: oni o kau wa dame yo. ;)
    -
    I have a good Canadian friend who got skin cancer. He got all the treatment that he needed, including colonic exams to check for metsatasis, all within a month, and it didn’t cost him a dime. As of now he is cancer-free. For every horror anecdote I can throw up a hundred where the Canadian system works. Oh BTW there are private insurers in Canada, and I honestly think once it happens we will have a public/private split anyway. Just something (publicly funded) to cover the basics then for the bells and whistles private companies can step in and take over the difference. I’m thinking something along the lines of the system in Australia or Taiwan.

  • jcapan

    荒らしは放置してください
    ~
    I think this is the more common expression: translates as leave the trolls alone or neglect them. Arashi wa houchi shite kudasai. But I like your expression better: Don’t buy demons!? :)
    ~
    Onibaba, however, are always on my shopping list.

  • dunedweller

    Pluk @ #44: Your ‘Decider in Chief’ comparison doesn’t work for me because Bush never held summits to ask dems (or anyone other than his immediate cabinet) for their opinion prior to his actions. Obama has considered many points of view in his decisions – such as the Health Care Summit he held.

  • FlownOver

    sacredh – I was going for an obscure Magritte ref. If I did it badly I attribute it to “The Disintegration of the Persistence of Memory.”

  • plukasiak

    Pluk @ #44: Your ‘Decider in Chief’ comparison doesn’t work for me because Bush never held summits to ask dems (or anyone other than his immediate cabinet) for their opinion prior to his actions. Obama has considered many points of view in his decisions – such as the Health Care Summit he held.
    _
    puhleez… things like the “Health Care Summit” are public relations manouvers — like like those “Health Care House Parties”. Its all about maintaining the focus on health care while projecting an image of “listening” and restricting the public discussion to approved viewpoints. (At least 41% of Americans favor a single payer plan, yet single-payer advocates had almost no voice — and it took a major grass-roots campaign to even get John Conyers, a single payer advocate who chairs the House subcommittee that is concerned with health care issues — invited to the “Summit.”
    _
    Please note that I don’t think that such “summits” because they are valuable in terms of maintaining the issue on the front burner. But to suggest that they accomplish anything — and that Obama actually learns from such an event — is pure Oborgian nonsense.

  • koabd

    I’m getting the sense that plukasiak doesn’t really like President Obama. I’m just curious as to whom he would prefer to see in the White House.

  • gysgt213

    We focus so much of our attention on the very large companies that can no longer insure their employees, but there are a lot of smaller companies that can’t afford the cost of healthcare either. These smaller compaines are every day being forced to offer their employees less and less coverage and having their employees pay more and more out of pocket.
    .
    Let’s face it if large companies can not afford to cover their employees smaller companies and individuals do not stand a chance with the current system.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    koabd, pluk has a kind of Tourette’s in regards to Obama. Unlike, but not entirely unlike, textee’s entirely predictable rants about “the entirely unquaified ….”

  • gysgt213

    “I’m getting the sense that plukasiak doesn’t really like President Obama. I’m just curious as to whom he would prefer to see in the White House.”
    .
    koabd-Maybe it just me and I’m getting Pluk all wrong. And Pluk can certainly speak well enough for himself, but I take from his writings a concern to see pass the smoke and mirror, dog and pony show bullcrap that constantly goes on and to which the media focuses American’s attention. Again, not speaking for Pluk in anyway, but I don’t think is focus is on not liking Obama.

  • plukasiak

    koabd-Maybe it just me and I’m getting Pluk all wrong. And Pluk can certainly speak well enough for himself, but I take from his writings a concern to see pass the smoke and mirror, dog and pony show bullcrap that constantly goes on and to which the media focuses American’s attention. Again, not speaking for Pluk in anyway, but I don’t think is focus is on not liking Obama.
    _
    its not about “liking” or “not liking” Obama — its about finding him inadequate to meet the challenges we face, and unwilling to seize the opportunities that those challenges represent.
    _
    Let me put it this way — we have a health CARE crisis in this country, not a health insurance crisis, or a drug company profitability crises. Insurance companies and drug manufacturers aren’t “stakeholders” when it comes to health care — they’re the parasites who play a massive role in the creation of the problem. The only real stakeholders are “consumers” of health care, health care providers, and those who pay for health care (including employers and government.)
    _
    But Obama has pretty much defined the crisis in terms of the insurance companies, and is allowing the drug companies a “place at the table” while shutting out the voices of consumers.
    _
    That, to me, is wholly “inadequate”, and represents a failure to seize an opportunity.

  • sacredh

    @FlownOver: The translation error was probably all mine. I translated it roughly as “This is not a commentary” which I then took as a mild admonishment for straying off topic (which I do far too often). I’ll attribute mine to the persistent disintegration of my memory. A mild curse from the 60′s.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    drug manufacturers aren’t “stakeholders” when it comes to health care — they’re the parasites
    .
    I won’t argue about insurance companies but if your going to suggest that drug manufacturers are parasites, then I suggest you imagine a world without them.

  • FlownOver

    sacredh –
    .
    Your translation was on target. My smart-a$$ reference was to Magritte’s painting “The Treachery of Images,” that featured an image of a pipe together with the words “Ceci n’est pas une pipe.” I intended my comment/noncomment only as a self-referential and obscure response to your citations of Escher and Dalí, not as criticism.
    .
    …and I still proudly wear my melting-clock baseball cap from the Dalí museum in St. Pete.

  • sacredh

    FlownOver: I bought one too! I also shelled out $75 for a large coffee table book while I was there. There is one enormous painting there about the size of the side of a house. I stood in front of it for over an hour and a man finally walked over and stood beside me and said “It is magnificent, isn’t it?”. He was either the curator or an employee and I said “I’m thinking of buying it…do you take VISA?”

  • plukasiak

    I won’t argue about insurance companies but if your going to suggest that drug manufacturers are parasites, then I suggest you imagine a world without them.
    _
    you mean that socialist utopia us Democrats crave? ;)
    _
    in the debate over the health care crisis, drug companies are acting as parasites — their only interest is in healthy profits, not providing the most efficient treatment options…

  • jcapan

    Yutsano:
    ~
    I attempted to reply yesterday, but I guess the kanji led to this:

    “jcapan Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    Sunday, March 8, 2009 at 10:15 pm”
    ~
    I think “Arashi wa houchi shite kudasai” is the more common expression: translates as leave the trolls alone or neglect them. But I like your expression better: Don’t buy demons!?
    ~
    Onibaba, however, are always on my shopping list.

  • jcapan

    Dear Time Moderators:
    ~
    You suck. My entirely innocuous post has been in mod-lockdown for 20 hours and counting.
    ~
    Don’t free it–just continue your sucking.
    ~
    jcapan

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