Obama to Overturn Stem Cell Ban

There had been talk of waiting for Congress to act, but Obama is expected Monday to undue* undo Bush’s ban on federally funded research using embryonic stem cells. Congress is still expected to pass legilsation* legislation later this year to prevent future presidents from reinstating the ban. The lifting of the ban would be effective immediately, so aspiring Octomoms be aware: very soon there will other options for those extra embyros.

*Apologies for the typos. TGIF.

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  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Quick edit note.
    It’s undo not undue…..

  • Cliff

    Also:
    legilsation
    .
    But as for the post itself: thank goodness. It’s about damn time.

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks so much for this post, Jay Newton-Small.
    .
    I did not know that this was happening; now I am.
    .
    Excellent quick blog post, Jay Newton-Small.

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks so much for this post, Jay Newton-Small.
    .
    I did not know that this was happening; now I am aware.
    .
    Excellent quick blog post, Jay Newton-Small.

  • Jay Newton-Small

    You’re welcome, Stuartzechman, have a good weekend.
    JNS

  • sacredh

    JN-S: Thanks for posting the information. When Bush banned federally funded research using embryonic stem cells (with the exceptions of a few virtually useless lines) his order also banned privately funded researchers from even using the same labs that received federal funding. Since government funded labs are generally the ones with the best equipment, he pretty much eliminated a significant potion of the research. The anti-science wingnuts should be howling about this one.

  • sacredh

    Maybe we should re-open the whole cloning thing too. Let’s throw the wingnuts a bone. We’ll clone dinosaurs so they can ride around on them just like in the old days. That should make them happy.

  • ottoman88

    Who made Obama our self-anointed stem cell guy? Huh?!

  • Ivy_B

    Jay, Sorry to join the typo gang, but the “be” is missing after will.
    .
    very soon there will other options for those extra embyros
    .
    Thanks for posting. Thought this was in the works, but glad to know it’s soon.

  • formerlyjames

    I would call jumping back on stem cell research the real intelligent design, nevermind what the religious crazies think it is.

  • rustyreturns

    Actually the Repubs can ride the Democrat EATING dinosaurs!! :D

  • Cliff

    Actually the Repubs can ride the Democrat EATING dinosaurs!!
    .
    At long last, rusty comes out of the closet.

  • sacredh

    formerlyjames: I’m sure you were already aware that the fertility clinics destroyed the excess embryos after the couples conceived. Allowing religious objections to derail scientific advancement has set us back time after time. If the donors gave their consent for the excess embryos to be used, I never had a problem with it. The potential benefits to society outweigh the objections of individual groups. If embyronic stem cell research eventually enables the medical community to be able to regenerate spinal cord tissue, I have a hard time believing that even the most ardent objectors would tell their paralyzed child that they have to stay confined to a wheelchair because mommy and daddy have religious objections to the treatment.

  • henqiguai

    #13 sacredh Says:
    Friday, March 6, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    …If embryonic stem cell research eventually enables the medical community to be able to regenerate spinal cord tissue, I have a hard time believing that even the most ardent objectors would tell their paralyzed child that they have to stay confined to a wheelchair because mommy and daddy have religious objections to the treatment.

    sacredh,
    .
    …never, ever underestimate the self-delusional, self-destructive, and/or just plain old idiotic behavior of the religious wingnut. Granted, most of the “you gotta abide by my irrational beliefs” admonishments are generally turned on outsiders (i.e. non-family or non-group insider), but there are many who will delude themselves into believing their irrationality is an inviolable law of existence.

  • formerlyjames

    sacredh, I don’t know about about how or when embryos are destroyed, although I am aware that if they are not implanted they are destroyed, which renders the religious idiots connection of stem cell research to abortion moot.
    .
    As for those suffering medical ills which may be resolved by stem cell research, the biggest immediate reward being related to diabetes, the religious right would have you pray. Just like they did over dead bodies before the discoveries of scientists related to insulin and life-saving therapy. St. Paul, especially, would urge that we are not of this world, and it really isn’t important, we seek another world. Good luck on that.

  • sacredh

    henqiguai: Being an atheist, it’s hard for me understand how religious beliefs could stand in the way of preventing a family member from leading a fuller, more productive life. I’m sure you’re right and that there are individuals that would rather see a family member suffer rather than violate their beliefs, but I still can’t comprehend it on a personal level. If my wife or son ever suffered an injury so severe that they became paralyzed, I would move heaven and earth (figuratively speaking) and give up everything I owned to restore them to health. If I was religious, I’d try to make peace with my God AFTER they were healed. I just can’t imagine not doing whatever it took.

  • queencersei

    sacredh, never underestimate other people’s blind devotion to faith. Even if it means the death of one of the children…
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/357116_faithhealing01.html

  • 2cute4prison

    I don’t see how a reasonable person could argue against this. Having said that, I expect people to argue against it.
    .
    Sacred, while we’re cloning dinosaurs I think the Republican party as it’s currently constituted might qualify. We could put them in museums for our kids. “Look Billy, they used crude tools like tax cuts to solve all their problems. See how far we’ve come!”

  • Matt

    Like most of the issues where conservatives are playing the obstructionist game, an overwhelming majority of Americans are firmly in support of the president’s position.

    This is far from a ‘controversial” decision by Obama.

    http://www.political-buzz.com/

  • formerlyjames

    sacredh, regardless of what the christian, muslim, and other religiously deranged fundamentalists would tell you, I think GOD would approve of your views. If HE existed.

  • textee

    How soon will we see the clueless socialist push for federal legislation establishing a “right” to kill infants who have survived abortions like he did as an Illinois legislator? A day? A week?

  • sacredh

    Not that I’m trying to “convert” anyone to atheism, but one of the advantages is that if you believe that this is the only chance we get, you’d better do a good job and enjoy what you have while you have it. I want to see advances while I’m still around to benefit from them

  • trifecta55

    textee, hahahahahahahaha.

    Laughs some more, points finger at you.

  • formerlyjames

    This is the only world I know and any other is only in a Walt Disney world of imagination to me. I will deal with it when I get there, if that were to happen. I will ask for mercy, and suggest to GOD that HE might have given better notice than what I heard from the idiots I encountered on earth. And that BOOK needs serious revision BTW.

  • jcapan

    This is for textee, spob, hula-girl et al:
    ~

    ~
    Get together and rent this. Buy some bud, grab your guns, and allow your fav Swamp “liberals” to stand in for the Soviet heroes seen here. As Jack said In a Few Right Wing Men, you need us on that wall, in your mirrors etc. We, your imagined tormentors, the evil to your tasty goodness.
    ~
    Textee, I think I saw your doppelganger, the klansman in O’Brother: “All these boys is miscegenated!” Never forget: We’re baby killers, we burn the flag, we want gays to teach your children sex-ed, we think chimps are not only your ancestors but your current intellectual superiors. Viva the enemy!
    ~
    Anyway, after the credits roll, you can admit that you’ve long found Hula deeply attractive, stroking his “glock.”

  • sacredh

    formerlyjames: HE would probably point out that the Bible was written by men so of course it’s flawed. He might even point out that the story about his son laying on top of a dead man and bringing him back to life was SO gay. Eyes roll. Thunder booms.

  • formerlyjames

    sacredh, I will count on it, if HE exists, and I meet HIM. In the meantime, HE won’t mind me just being here on earth trying to make do as best I can. I am laughing.

  • Friar Tuck

    “if you believe that this is the only chance we get, you’d better do a good job and enjoy what you have while you have it.”
    .
    Excellent theology. God gives us a lot, and He doesn’t expect us to just sit there staring at it, “like a cow looking at a gate” (Martin Luther). Surf’s up!

  • Friar Tuck

    sacredh – previous post directed at you, but you knew that?

  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    I happened to catch Contessa Brewer interviewing a state senator from Georgia today about his attempt to legislate in vitro fertilization. His object was to avoid having the taxpayers of Georgia support litters of welfare babies (ahem — Octomom). But her Republican and pro-life, so it got very confused and very messy, as you can imagine. Contessa (bless her) actually asked him is he thought the government ought to be telling poor women how many children they could have and he said “Yes, I wish we could” or something similar. Talk about a rock and a hard place for a pro-lifer.
    .
    Anyway, if you think the federal government is crazy, you haven’t checked the state levels action lately. I add the link to his bill, which has since been tabled and won’t see the light of day this year.
    .
    The Ethical Treatment of Human Embryos Act”
    .
    Have a beer and enjoy.

  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    I happened to catch Contessa Brewer interviewing a state senator from Georgia today about his attempt to legislate in vitro fertilization. His object was to avoid having the taxpayers of Georgia support litters of welfare babies (ahem — Octomom). But him being Republican and pro-life, so it got very confused and very messy, as you can imagine. Contessa (bless her) actually asked him if he thought the government ought to be telling poor women how many children they could have and he said “Yes, I wish we could” or something similar. Talk about a rock and a hard place for a pro-lifer.
    .
    Anyway, if you think the federal government is crazy, you haven’t checked the state levels action lately. I add the link to his bill, which has since been tabled and won’t see the light of day this year.
    .
    The Ethical Treatment of Human Embryos Act”
    .
    Have a beer and enjoy.

  • formerlyjames

    Friar Tuck, I am disappointed that you don’t direct any comments at me. After all, sacredh and I were both in the conversation. Maybe I am just a lost soul?

  • sacredh

    Friar Tuck: Sure did. Even though I’m not religious and don’t always act like it, I really do respect the beliefs of others. Maybe it’s the old hippy in me sticking around, but live and let live seems like a decent creed. If it wasn’t for the belief part, I think I’d make a decent christian. Whether it’s snow on the ground or flowers blooming in the spring, I’m always filled with wonder. Of course that might be from all the acid in the 60′s too.

  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    sorry for the double-posting, that will teach me to try to fix typos on the fly. Also to post comments after my weekly pub excursion.

  • formerlyjames

    joyomama, I share your confusion. I won’t go to your link, but if it were ethical treatment of post birth humans, I might have gone there.

  • 53_3

    “We’ll clone dinosaurs so they can ride around on them just like in the old days.”
    .
    Naaah. I guess I have to disagree with you on this one, sacredh.
    .
    We’ll clone dinosaurs so they can eat them just like in the old days.

  • http://darcygrant.wordpress.com/ darcygrant

    …If embryonic stem cell research eventually enables the medical community to be able to regenerate spinal cord tissue, I have a hard time believing that even the most ardent objectors would tell their paralyzed child that they have to stay confined to a wheelchair because mommy and daddy have religious objections to the treatment.

    sacredh,
    .
    …never, ever underestimate the self-delusional, self-destructive, and/or just plain old idiotic behavior of the religious wingnut. Granted, most of the “you gotta abide by my irrational beliefs” admonishments are generally turned on outsiders (i.e. non-family or non-group insider), but there are many who will delude themselves into believing their irrationality is an inviolable law of existence.

    —————–
    It’s true. I met a guy recently who is a fundamentalist Christian and in a wheelchair. I asked him how he felt about embryonic stem cell research, and he told me that he “doesn’t mind being in a wheelchair” and that he would rather spend the rest of his life confined to a wheelchair than see embryonic stem cell research used to find a cure that would allow him to walk. The good news is that the voices of those who would keep us in the dark ages are becoming slowly but surely irrelevant. The bad news is that now that they know they’re a dying breed, they’re protests will become a little more shrill than usual. I’m grateful that Obama is able to rise above the tantrums of the religious right and to do everything within his power to help move our country forward.

  • http://darcygrant.wordpress.com/ darcygrant

    change they’re to their—I’m having typo problems today, too. :/

  • sacredh

    darcygrant: The guy you mentioned that was confined to a wheelchair and would prefer to stay that way even if there was a treatment made possible by a breakthrough in embyronic stem cell research because it violated his religious beliefs isn’t what bothers me. I even have a certain admiration for someone that sticks by their beliefs no matter what the personal consequences. It’s the people who don’t want anyone else to be able to benefit from any advances because they can’t stand the idea that not everyone thinks like them or believes what they believe. My own son (stepson actually) chose to attend one of the most conservative religious colleges in the entire country. I couldn’t have been more disappointed in his choice but I put my personal preferences aside and told him I didn’t agree with his choice but would support his decision. I’d have rather eaten a turd than say that, but I did. I agree 100% with you about being grateful that we now have a president that is doing everything he can to move the country forward. I trust his judgement more than I trust my own.

  • formerlyjames

    Here is what I think is important about this issue. Scientific research has been stymied by religious belief. That is wrong to me. Very, very, wrong and undemocratic. I don’t care what religionists believe, do, or practice. Not in the least. When I care about it is when it spills over into my space. Keep it to yourself, no problem. Piss in my space with your fantasies, big, big problem. Religionists do not and will never grasp that concept. That is and will remain the big problem.

  • Friar Tuck

    FORMERLY!
    .
    You certainly were part of the conversation. My very bad.

  • Friar Tuck

    Scientific research has been stymied by religious belief. That is wrong to me.
    .
    Agree completely.

  • sacredh

    formerlyjames: That’s also my problem. I don’t care what a person believes as long as their beliefs aren’t forced on others. I have no problem with a person being against embryonic stem cell research as long as it can go forward. If they don’t believe in it and don’t want to reap any possible benefits, then don’t. The same with gay marriage. Nobody is going to force a straight woman to marry a lesbian. Nobody is going to force a straight man to marry a gay man. If gay marriage violates your beliefs, then by all means, marry someone from the opposite sex. I’ve heard the argument that if a man can marry a man then the next thing you know people will be marrying animals. My response is always “Then maybe your dad shouldn’t have married his sister either because it produced a brain damaged moron”. I have no problem with alternate religions either. I’m friends with a Wiccan but I don’t think she expects me to worship a tree. To each his own. I don’t like the idea of abortions, but what a woman decides is between her and her doctor. Nobody is ever going to be happy with the way things are. I think people should live their own lives according to what they believe and let others live theirs the way they believe is right. It’s when we decide that we’re the best judge of how others live that we screw things up.

  • sacredh

    This has been one very interesting thread even if we did wander a bit from the main topic. Thanks to all. Since I’ve had about 5 hours sleep in the last two days combined, I’m going to hit the rack before I fall over. If somebody does come up with the meaning of life (no guessing) tonight….please post it and I’ll read it in the morning.

  • joliba

    “The question is whether taxpayer dollars should be used to subsidize the destruction of precious human life,” Boehner said in a statement Friday.

    So Boehner opposed Bush’s wars! Who knew?

  • http://darcygrant.wordpress.com/ darcygrant

    Sacredh wrote: Being an atheist, it’s hard for me understand how religious beliefs could stand in the way of preventing a family member from leading a fuller, more productive life. I’m sure you’re right and that there are individuals that would rather see a family member suffer rather than violate their beliefs, but I still can’t comprehend it on a personal level. If my wife or son ever suffered an injury so severe that they became paralyzed, I would move heaven and earth (figuratively speaking) and give up everything I owned to restore them to health.

    Lots of good points this evening, and I agree with you that if a religious person wants to deny treatment for himself, that’s fine. However, when he wants everyone else to be denied treatment because of his or her religious belief, it’s a major problem.

    About your statement above–you feel the way you do because you have compassion and deep love for the members of your family. However, many (not all) religious people don’t feel that way about other people. They love thinking that they’re RIGHT about things. They love thinking that one day, everyone is going to see just how right they were and be sorry that they didn’t recognize it sooner. The compassion and love that you have for your family members doesn’t exist for many religious people. If you ask these people, for example, how they would feel if God eternally tormented their non-believing son, daughter, sister, brother, mother—they’d say something like, “Well, it would be sad, but I’d still worship God.” You see my point? These people look forward to being in a heaven in which compassion does not exist. This is why I think it is so difficult for people like you and me to understand how these people can hold the views they do. However, the reason they are able to hold the views they do is because when it comes right down to it, it really is all about them and not about anyone else.

    The Christian concern over abortion is no more than a smoke screen. Christians see nothing wrong with concepts like eternal torment for non-believers and a “loving God” who orders men to stone people for failing to observe the sabbath. These people don’t care about human life. (Ever see them drool when they talk about bombing the hell out of other countries?) For them, the abortion issue is about trying to appear compassionate and to divert people’s attention away from the fact that they worship a concept of God that is more primitive, more barbaric, and more violent than any human being who has ever lived. For the religious zealot, fighting against abortion is a way to try to look good by expressing what they claim is righteous indignation for the unborn. In reality, though, I am convinced that for the majority if not all of the religious zealots, the abortion issue is about power and influence in the political arena. For politically active religious conservatives, they have tried to turn the abortion issue into a symbol of their humanity and their decency when in reality, there is nothing at all even remotely decent or compassionate or humane about their religious perspectives.

  • http://darcygrant.wordpress.com/ darcygrant

    By the way, just as an aside–I thought it was interesting that the Christian fundamentalist in the wheelchair ended our discussion with the words, “I’ll pray for you.” He obviously doesn’t get it that his prayers are worthless. I wanted to tell him to pray himself out of that wheelchair before he offered up any prayers on my behalf, but I managed to keep my mouth shut. I thought I’d say it here instead. ;)

  • newfloridian

    Can’t sleep. Getting old is crap! Then I find a meaning of live post and a prayer is useless post.

    Life is a series of randon, unforseen circumstance. There is no meaning. How else explains why one person is more successful than another, one has better artistic skills than another, one is happier than another and so on. Success in life is fortuitous, sometimes it is being is the right place at the rightn time, sometimes you just meat the right person by accident (or wrong person). You can plan and plan for all of the expectations and still not achieve what you want or need. It is all random. Now being incredibly smart helps but you also need what is known as an above average mental energy level. (There are lots of mensa members who can be classified smart by IQ, but have undistinguished careers and varied succcess. They don’t have that energy level.) The energy level manifests itself in the ability to work extremely long hours, to see things so multifaceted that they can come up with a myriad of options or solutions to problems and ultimately come up with better solutions that create great advances etc. They can get by on 3 hours of sleep a night, never seem to get metally tired. (See Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, etc.) However who gets thus special mental energy is once again random. It doesn’t seem to be gentically passed on. It is just random, like everything else in life. Same for entertainment. Two beautiful entertainers with equal skills, and yet one is legendary and the other fades from view. One catches the wave the other does not. Purely random, being in the right place at the right time, etc.
    Maybe the secret to life is that it’s a series of random events for which no planning can be undertaken. You just float along the surface, picking up whatever floats along the surface and bumps into you.

    Which means I guess prayer doesn’t work. But it is a positive hope mechanism that allows us to deal with life’s ups and downs. I believe there is a GOD, or at least some some other being conducting a petri dish experiment with us. However praying to God to save you or make your life better is just a salve to dress your wounds. If it makes you feel better then go for it. I just don’t think he or she listens. And yes God could be a woman, which might explain the random nature of everything. (Sexist remark meant in humor)

    For the deeply religious among us I think it is wonderful that you can find a salvation and peace for yourself. Just dom’t assume that makes you superior and allows you to try to control other’s lives and decisions. Most of us want to come to our own salvation whatever that may be, without your help. And remember you can’t change people or belief systems (politics/religion/lifestyle etc.). Those are changes that only happen when we ourselves decide to change because we have found ourselves lacking. You are not responsible for our wellbeing and success anymore than we are for yours. It’s all random.

    Back to bed…..

  • sacredh

    There’s one thing I’d like to add that I probably didn’t make clear in my previous posts. I think that for every Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell that can’t see the difference between religion and politics, there are probably 100 real christians that only want to live their lives and worship their God as they see fit. They’re good people who are among the first to offer help if a tragedy befalls a neighbor. They don’t make the headlines or news programs because they view their religion as a personal matter between themselves and their God. They might look at us non-believers with sadness and pray for us, not against us. It’s the shouters and media wh0res that get all the attention. They’re just as nonplussed about why we can’t look around us and see the glory of God as I am about how they can believe in talking snakes or the earth being only 7,000 years old. My MIL tells me she prays for my soul everyday. I’d rather she made me cookies, but that’s not going to happen.

  • bacalove

    Charles Dow Rolls in His Grave: The Distortion of the Average He Made Famous – Friday, March 6, 2009

    Have you ever asked yourself why the Dow Jones Industrial Average contains non-industrial stocks? Why such a large weighting is given to financial companies such as American Express, Bank of America, Citigroup, JP Morgan and AIG (Before its removal)? After all, you wouldn’t expect to see General Motors included in a healthcare index or Goldman Sachs in the home builders index.

    The Wikipedia entry for the Dow Jones Industrial Average states that:

    “The average is computed from the stock prices of 30 of the largest and most widely held public companies in the United States. The “industrial” portion of the name is largely historical—many of the 30 modern components have little to do with traditional heavy industry.”

    We do not dispute the claim that the “industrial” portion is largely historical. Indeed, there are components which have little to do with industry. Financial companies, who do not produce anything, comprise a large weighting the in this average of American Industry.

    Over the last 20 years, the Dow Jones has been reshaped into a basket of 30 conglomerate corporations, with little regard for the actual business they’re in. Today’s Dow Jones would be unrecognizable to the man who created it over a century ago.

    History
    The index was first published in 1896 by Charles Dow, Founder of the Dow Jones Company and Wall Street Journal. Mr. Dow created and monitored a list of important industrial companies. Along with the Industrial Average, he created the Railroad Index (Transportation) which he would track along with the industrial stocks to gauge the health of the economy.

    The Dow Theory was created based on the notion that both indexes should rise together in a healthy economy. The concept was a simple one. While industrial companies made the goods, the rails transported those goods to market. One couldn’t function without the other.

    The original Industrial Average contained 12 industrial (Producers of goods) stocks:

    - American Cotton Oil Company
    - American Sugar Company
    - American Tobacco Company
    - Chicago Gas Company
    - Distilling & Cattle Feeding Company
    - General Electric
    - Laclede Gas Light Company
    - National Lead Company
    - North American Company, (Edison) electric company
    - Tennessee Coal,
    - U.S. Leather Company
    - United States Rubber Company

    Notice that all of the companies in the index were producers of goods. There were no financial or bank stocks included in the average. At the time of his death in 1902, Charles Dow’s industrial average contained 12 stocks which were comprised of industrial producing companies such as US Steel, US Rubber, National Lead, American Car and Foundry, etc. Still no banks.

    The Dow Jones Begins to Change (Era of Reganomics)

    1982
    80 years after the death of Charles Dow, American Express was added to the Dow Jones Industrial Average. This marked the first time that a financial stock was added to the century old index.

    1988
    American can, a manufacturer of tin cans merged with Commercial credit corporation and adopted the name Primerica.

    1991
    JP Morgan was introduced to the Dow Jones in 1991 and replaced Primerica corporation.

    1997
    Travelers Group was added to the index. The company would later change its name to Citigroup.

    2004
    AIG was added.

    2008
    Bank of America was added.

    Reasons:
    We struggle to find an explanation as to why such changes were made. Was it because America became de-industrialized over the last quarter century? Was it merely a reflection of big business today? With companies such as General Motors and General Electric playing dominant roles in non-core businesses such as finance and banking? Or were these financial stocks added to the index in hopes of propping up its value with companies such as JP Morgan and AIG, whose earning power seemed indestructible? Our hunch is that it was a combination of each. (More at the link.)

    http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/03/charles-dow-rolls-in-his-grave-the-distortion-of-the-average-he-made-famous/

  • Ivy_B

    bacalove, Very interesting post – I knew some but not all. Thanks! Wish some of those who are determined that the Dow is the only metric would read that until they understand it isn’t. Pat Buchanan and Tweety arguing if the Dow is a leading indicator last night proved the insanity. I know Buchanan is goofy, but he even claimed the Dow led the real economy by several months. Sigh. People hear this cr*p and believe it.

  • http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2009/03/07/obama-to-lift-restrictions-on-embryonic-stem-cell-research/ Obama To Lift Restrictions On Embryonic Stem Cell Research : Stop The ACLU

    [...] Corner, NO QUARTER, Liberal Values, The Hill’s Blog Briefing Room, Political Punch, ACSBlog, Swampland and The Moderate [...]

  • Art Pepper

    I could respect someone who wanted a ban on ALL in vitro fertilization because it results in the destruction of unused fertilized embryoes.
    .
    What’s mind-boggling stupid about the research ban is that it did not save a single embryo. So even within the moral framework of its supporters, the ban was pointless.

  • sacredh

    @Art Pepper: We brought up last night that the unused embryos were destroyed regardless. That puzzles me too why they are against using something that’s destined to be discarded. Sometimes I wonder if some of the people protesting against the use of the embryos are under the impression that they are specifically created in order to be used in medical research. I’m not positive about this, but I seem to recall reading a year or two back that the embryos can even be cloned for use.

  • http://darcygrant.wordpress.com/ darcygrant

    I really have to wonder what right Bush had in the first place to ban (or severely limit) federal funding of embryonic stem-cell research to begin with. If embryonic stem-cell research is legal (which it is is) and if it promise to improve the quality of living for many Americans (which it does), then personally held religious beliefs and/or ethical convictions of a President to the contrary should not qualify the President to, as sacredh pointed out earlier, force his personally held ethical convictions/religious beliefs on the rest of the country. I believe that President Bush’s ban on federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research in 2001 was a severe abuse of his power, an abuse of his power which, thankfully, President Obama is reversing. I had fun writing more about this in my new blog today if anyone wants to read and come and agree or disagree, you are welcome! http://www.darcygrant.wordpress.com

  • yutsano

    Sacredh: If your MIL won’t, I’ll bake you a batch of cookies. :)
    -
    Being of the religious persuasion (in fact I’m going through a religious fast right now, similar to the Ramadan abstention of eating but not as rigorous), I only choose to express my religious views and speak of them only when asked. Why? Because it is only MY experience. There was a specific incident in my life where I felt touched by a higher power, which may or may not have biochemical explanations. But I alone experienced that. It’s that experience that makes me a theist. It’s also that experience that makes enforcing my religious beliefs on anyone anathematic to me. Evangelism never made any sense to me. How can you compel someone to believe exactly as you do?

  • http://darcygrant.wordpress.com/ darcygrant

    yutsano–Personally, I know and love many Christians and theists in my life, and what I appreciate about these Christians and theists is that they recognize, as you do, that their faith is not something that they should attempt to impose on others. They know, in other words, that they might be wrong about what they believe, and they understand that they are as compelled to believe what they do by emotional need as they are by anything else. That kind of faith, particularly if it is the kind of faith that results in genuine compassion and kindness toward others, is the kind of faith that I, personally, do not find offensive and at times may even view as admirable.

  • http://darcygrant.wordpress.com/ darcygrant

    change “should attempt” to “should NOT attempt” and no, that was NOT a freudian slip. :P

  • yutsano

    Actually retract your correction Darcy. Your change results in a double negative!

  • http://darcygrant.wordpress.com/ darcygrant

    I noticed that but I thought it would be annoying to correct my correction. ;)

  • formerlyjames

    darcy and yutsano, I agree with both of you. I have no problem with religious faith. The most loving, respectful person I have ever personally known in my life held a deep faith. Not that I would necessarily join in a clean and honest religious community, but I most definately won’t join in the prevailing one dominated by Elmer Gantries and cheap, shallow thought.

  • sacredh

    @yutsano: Thanks for the offer of the cookies. I’m trying to put on a few pounds. I used to fast fairly often in my younger days (as well as stay up for days at a time) also, but it was more of the Carlos Castaneda “religious” type of worship. That’s not a snark. It was more of a rationalization on my part. I personally feel that whatever gives comfort, solace, hope or peace of mind to someone is a good thing. I’ve found my own comfort zone. It doesn’t include religion and I’m at peace with what I believe. I’m also comfortable around people who do believe. Being big adds to the comfort level. That was a snark.

  • yutsano

    I’ve annoyed my co-workers to no end because I’ve been promising cookies and haven’t delivered yet. At least one of my supervisors has a daughter who’s a Girl Scout so I have a reprieve for a little while.
    -
    I am of the school of “Live and let live”. I would like to think it comes with the life of being a Navy brat nomad. Or I’m just overanalyzing that, but you do have to learn to get along with a whole new set of people in a very short amount of time. Or I’m just the totally accepting neo-hippie liberal sort.

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