In the Arena

Chutzpah

It takes a fair amount of amnesia for a political spinmeister like Pete Wehner–who spent six years spreading venom as Karl Rove’s designated hitter–to chastise various Obama capos for attempting to transform the GOP into the POL (Party of Limbaugh). It’s today installment of the OMG hysteria that has infected various Republican hacks as their ship sinks–OH MY GOD, Obama is going to sign a bill with earmarks! OH MY GOD, he wants national health insurance! OH MY GOD, the market is going down–must be Obama! OH MY GOD, another appointee with tax problems! He’s finished! He’s flailing about! (A Freudian would note a fair amount of projection here.)

There is, after all, a signficiant difference between the Bush and Obama Administrations when it comes to playing politics. Whether you like the policies or not–Wehner obviously doesn’t–the Obama Administration has laid an awful lot of substance on the table without political garnish, including some pretty difficult stuff, like tax increases, a cap-and-trade program and a stimulus plan that could prove to be too timid or philosophically misguided. Obama is taking a tremendous political risk in pushing for an alternative energy economy that might not prove robust enough to provide the basis for the new prosperity the President has promised. He is resolutely proceeding with a reasonable, realistic foreign policy that involves diplomacy as well as appropriate military action–the beef-up of forces in Afghanistan, the use of Predators and special ops in Pakistan. He has offered a daily flow of substantive events to promote these programs. 

In addition to all this substance, and in addition to a serious and continuing effort to involve Republicans in the formulation of policy, the Obama Administration has decided to fire some shots at those opponents who have done everything they can to distort important programs like the stimulus package and who, furthermore, have announced their patriotic hope that Obama fails at this moment of national crisis. That seems–pace, my colleagues–entirely within the realm of creative politics to me. 

Contrast this, if you will, with George W. Bush’s Administration: That President did have his principles and he was willing to expend political capital in their service–only a principled man would have dashed into the social security buzzsaw, as he did. I’m also sure Bush loved democracy and hated terrorists, even though his attempts to pursue both abroad were dreadful, blood-soaked failures. (Somehow Bush’s defenders never mention his principled insistence on Palestinian elections, even though the Israelis and moderate Palestinians opposed them in 2006–elections which brought us Hamas, which Bush–the democracy lover–then decided not to recognize.)

But even if you grant Bush his principles, his Administration–unlike Obama’s–politicized everything including foreign policy, which was both unseemly and unprecedented. Rove used the late, unlamented “War on Terrorism” as a cudgel to question the patriotism of those who disputed Bush’s prosecution of it. And, in an example close to Wehner’s born-again heart, Bush even politicized the office of faith-based and social policy–using it as tool to gin up the vote among the evangelical sheep, as David Kuo detailed in his excellent book, Tempting Faith.

I could go on, but why depress everyone with memories of the worst presidency of my lifetime? The point is, Obama playing politics is profoundly different in degree and kind than Bush playing politics. In any case, I’d be both amazed and rather worried if we had a President who didn’t play the game a bit.

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  • Friar Tuck

    JEEBUS, Joe! Is there anybody at this rag except KT who isn’t going to pile on to what is now 3 or 4-day-old garbage? MS gets a billion hits, J N-S almost makes triple digits, and now you want a taste, huh?

  • Paul-no not that one

    WGAS

  • stuartzechman

    This isn’t terribly important for you to weigh in on, Joe Klein.
    .
    We’ve already done the work for you; there’s no need to convince the country of anything.
    .
    Why don’t you comment on the President’s Health Care Summit, instead?

  • http://policingwingnutwelfare.blogspot.com/ JJ

    “That seems–pace, my colleagues–entirely within the realm of creative politics to me.”
    .
    Well said. Thank you.
    .
    “I’d be both amazed and rather worried if we had a President who didn’t play the game a bit.”
    .
    Yes, Dems wouldn’t get all riled up over electing Alan Colmes. You don’t drive an agenda by being a shrinking violet.

  • egilsson1

    .
    Great column by Klein.
    .
    I like the fact he’s pulling the Swampland out of the swamp that JNS and MS have sunk it to.
    .

  • egilsson1

    .
    BTW, where’s the “Obambi” taunt now? They believed their own lies, and now are shocked and surprised he’s whupping them so badly. The funny thing is, they still don’t see it. Wait until 2010 comes, and they blow up in ANOTHER election.

  • cincinnatus est exterminata!

    Actually Joe, chutzpah would be you calling out your colleague Michael Scherer for yesterdays idiocy. I agree though, that this story is getting a little stale as far as topics of convo here. How about a post about Jon Stewart’s spot on takedown of the condensed, industrial strength idiocy we call ‘CNBC’?

  • 53_3

    “In any case, I’d be both amazed and rather worried if we had a President who didn’t play the game a bit.”
    .
    Well, I’m sure that nobody has yet pointed out that Rush himself has stepped into the poltical arena. He may be a talk show host, “lighthearted” critic, or the intellectual(!) leader of the Republican party, but the moment he opened his mouth, he’s become a legitimate target.
    .
    And as Friar Tuck so aptly put it*, his cat is definitely gettting a good hearty flattening at the wheels of our new administration!
    .
    *I’d sue you Friar, for causing me to almost choke with laughter, but besides the fact that I don’t have a lawyer, you probably don’t have a lot of money, and besides, I don’t know how I could sue you out of existance unless I knew who you really were!

  • cincinnatus est exterminata!

    …and I meant call out BY NAME.

  • Friar Tuck

    53_3, you have brightened my day immeasurably. Many thanks!

  • 53_3

    “Wait until 2010 comes, and they blow up in ANOTHER election.”
    .
    I wouldn’t expect rapidly disappearing species to learn from the mistakes that brought about their mass extinction. Besides, it has been noted that often, impact events occur in clusters.
    .
    It’s noteworthy that Chixculub isn’t the only crater that dates from the extinction of the dinosaurs. I say let nature take it’s course…

  • 53_3

    “53_3, you have brightened my day immeasurably. Many thanks!”
    .
    At least I did somthing good today. You is entwirely welcome!

  • palininatowel

    Joe,
    .
    Tell it to your very own, Mark Halperin, who told Charlie Rose last night that he thinks Obama and company are making a terrible mistake by tangling with Limbaugh and attempting to elevate the radio bloviator to the leader of the GOP.
    .
    Of course, what Mark neglected to mention was his own elevation of Limbaugh into a leadership role by constantly touting Limbaugh’s pronouncements on The Page.
    .
    In other words…
    .

    “It’s okay for me to promote Limbaugh as spokesman for the GOP, but it is not okay for Democrats to do that, especially Obama.”

    .
    Joe, I know you are busy calling out the likes of Rove and Whener on their blatant hypocrisy, but you shouldn’t bypass the guy who is probably sitting just a few cubes down from you in the newsroom.

  • 53_3

    “Joe, I know you are busy calling out the likes of Rove and Whener on their blatant hypocrisy, but you shouldn’t bypass the guy who is probably sitting just a few cubes down from you in the newsroom.”
    .
    Hell! They’re all veinerschieners!

  • northleft12

    Mr. Klein, thanks for providing some sane perspective to your colleagues. Unfortunately, they and a lot of pundits need to be reminded about the atrocity that was the Bush administration.

    Unfortunately, you need to go farther and point out your/their complicity in that fiasco.

  • palininatowel

    53_3,
    .
    I should have used the plural, “guys.”

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate
  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “Golly gosh Black Man, that was a close one!”

    “Did you say close one, or The Once? Anyhoo, right wing you aren’t, Rahm, but we must indeed quench the evil math that would require us and our 57 Blue State corporate whore media sycophants to divulge thrice and for all the rank & file failure of FDR’s stupid socialist schemes, saved only by our friend Hitler and the president of Canada.”

    “You mean you aren’t going to work on balancing the budget after all, Black Man?”

    “Rahm, you know and I know and the Amer-Asian people know that I have little if any ability to add and subtract, other than PayPal Gaza receipts and Hawaiian ice cream cone sales. Therefore and forthwith, my little liberal lemming ballet buddy, we will invoke Screw The Math, Enjoy The Show as our mediocre market meltdown mantra, while the world burns and Michelle busses the kids to private skoo.”

    “Holy Jesse Helms, Black Man, do you think it will work?”

    “It has to work, Rahm, or I’m going left into the 1-term ditch with the Jew bashing Carter and Vietnam war hero LBJ. Now on to the Blackmobile…”

    “Uh, sorry Black Man, but the Blackmobile’s still in the shop. GM’s parts orders from Mexico have been held up by the drug mobs that you let loose when you told the DEA to stand down last week.”

    “Drat! I knew something was afoot south of Fresno! Well Rahm, we’ll just have to obfuscate to Move On some other way. Is the Flyin Chittlin up and running?”

    “Sorry, Black Man, but since you grounded all the small aircraft last week following the Frozone phuck ups from Newark, we’ve had to park our economic battle wing too. We do have the Black Bike and Black Soapbox Derby Cart available though. Can I ride in the back this time?”

    “OK Rahm, that has given me a great idea, but I’ll vett it by you and Iorgo Sorrows to see if it Meets Up with the Hoofington Post gold standard for liberal largess in a unionized tanking economy. What say we give billions if not trillions of unaccountable funds to our lobbyist friends on Wall Street and the rest of the old Clixon regime change, and see if anyone notices that no one knows where the Boob Rubin laundry money actually went? Then we’ll blame some fat GOP radio guy for making us do it, declare victory, and vacation in Maui with Michael Phelps and Arsenio Hall.”

    “Great scotch Black Man, here comes typical white liar Goober Gibbs and his gang of noun raiders!”

    “Quick Rahm, to the Code Pink Cave, and pass me that copyright release form!”

    “You got it Black Man! Are we taking the Black Cadillac Escalade, Black Toyota Prius, or Black Bart Boat?”

    “No time to argue, Rahm, just jump on the next fad you see, and hope that nobody notices the lack of change from the Nixon years in our internal tactics!”

    “Right, Black Man, 10-4 roger that!”

    ———————————–

    We will return to BLACK MAN VERSUS THE VOLCANO after these messages from The Blago-Burris Legal Defense Fund…

  • palininatowel

    School must have let out.

  • 53_3

    Isn’t it a bit absurd that the Republicans are complaining that we are installing him as their dumbbell-in-cheef?
    .
    I mean, they already did!
    .
    Maybe they’re right. After all, we are giving them a rather hearty shove toward oblivion…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    2 months in, and Obama’s worse in the polls than either Bush, or even Clinton?

    That IS change we can believe in!

    = DOW 5000 ACCOMPLISHED =

  • 53_3

    “School must have let out.”
    .
    Did you notice that he really, really, really wants to drop the n-bomb?

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    BTW: Why hasn’t Obama gotten Bin Laden yet, or ended the war in Iraq?

    Can you say President MOOP, America?

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    palininatowel: Tell it to your very own, Mark Halperin, who told Charlie Rose last night that he thinks Obama and company are making a terrible mistake by tangling with Limbaugh
    .
    Well, that is simply fascinating. Because a couple of days ago Halperin was on Morning Joe, positively giddy with delight about how perfectly (his words: “The democrats set a plan. It’s working perfectly!”) the Obama team was playing this. Perhaps the master called and forced him to change his story?
    .
    Video of Halperin in this TPM compilation:

  • cincinnatus est exterminata!

    If you want 300+ hits then name names Joe….Scherer, Halperin.

  • 53_3

    There’s some good news from the business world:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29526718/
    .
    If this keeps up, the last remaining stragglers (like hula) might become completely extinct, along with their party-of-choice*!
    .
    *yes, this is a play on the words “drug of choice”. Sue me.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Lib loon round logic of the Time-Jazeera realm:

    “The economy’s tanking because white Republicans don’t like The One.”

    Have I missed anything?

    Certainly, no thinking business or investment house will sink much more into the SPASTIC socialism Obama’s throwing against the walls of Congress like so much poop at the National Zoo (regards to the NY Post), but why report on the obvious market meltdown that Obama has exacerbated to record low levels, when they can sic Rahm-a-dong against Rush?

    We have met the enemy, and the enemy is lousing vetting, and lousier DNC staffers — working for the Hawaiian Punch that couldn’t teleprompt his way out of a wet fiscal debate if he didn’t have someone handing him talking points as public policy.

    On the plus side, Hillary’s about to force Israel into nuking Iran, so at least a little ME progress IS being made on behalf of otherwise free peeples.

    = CHAVEZ ACCOMPLISHED =

  • palininatowel

    wvng,
    .
    As has been pointed out elsewhere, Halperin has been Limbaugh’s lapdog for years.
    .
    So Mark probably got a good spanking from an Oxycontin-crazed Rush, and changed his tune.
    .
    Charlie Rose just sat there nodding, as if anything everything Halperin says is fact.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    cincy, I agree. Better yet, JoeK, name names and then tie them all together in a bow. Some might suggest that the survival of your industry depends on it.
    .
    Aw heck, that “some” was a straw man. WVNG suggests that the survival of your industry depends on it. Go ahead, knock me down … if you can!

  • 53_3

    “Charlie Rose just sat there nodding, as if anything everything Halperin says is fact.”
    .
    No. Actually, someone flicked the back of Halperin’s bobblehead doll…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “Did you notice that he really, really, really wants to drop the n-bomb?”

    Indeed, even Nader couldn’t have achieved such a swift market meltdown in such little Time.

    Very perceptive.

    Take the rest of the administration off.

  • sacredh

    53_3: You’ve got to be kidding. “He really, really, really wants to drop the n-bomb”. Why would anybody want to drop a nuclear bomb? That is what you meant, isn’t it? I like this snark sh!t.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    P-towel. On Rose et al nodding politely. I was driving in the Shenandoah Valley today, and the local NPR station was asking me for money. I stopped and sent them some and as I did it hit me that I no longer did it for Morning Edition and ATC, which used to be a source of careful, accurate reporting, but in recent years have spent far too much time giving credence to flatearthers like hula. I sent them money because they have a series of superior shows that explore issues in depth (On Point, Talk of the Nation, etc) and also live up to the historical NPR standards for accuracy.
    .
    I wonder if the old ME and ATC will ever return.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    53:

    “The mean white powerless disheveled Republican minority party won’t let Obama succeed!”

    Dude.

    You’re in power.

    Act like you’ve been there, at least.

    Even if you’ve not a clue, it might make The One’s fluff-a-nutjob numbers tank a little less quickly, eh?

  • 53_3

    Hulu:
    .
    Did anyone ever tell you that the DOW is not the economy? If Obama were to draw a line in the sand with the DOW, he really wouldn’t be doing his job.
    .
    Which he is. Which is why this news is relevant:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29526718/
    .
    And if this keeps up, you might soon become just another alien-abduction afficionado!

  • palininatowel

    wvng,
    .
    They use big words on NPR. That’s why people like hula listen to Rush and Hannity.

  • 53_3

    “That is what you meant, isn’t it? I like this snark sh!t.”
    .
    Yup!** Exactamundo!**
    .
    **Ultra snarkful double-stacked realtime snarkology going on here.

  • 53_3

    Wow! Hulu is now arguing with himself, I think. He put words in my mouth and then chastized me for saying them!
    .
    Way to go, huly, yer hittin on all two!

  • sacredh

    53_3: Put us together and I think we might be able to do more damage than Limbaugh at an all-you-can-eat buffet.

  • 53_3

    Hula:
    .
    Maybe you could cold-cock yourself and pretend it was me.
    .
    Then you could kick your own a$$. Now what could possibly be more satisfying than that!

  • 53_3

    You may be right sacredh! We’ve already got Hula kicking his own arse!
    .
    From here, the world…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    53:

    It matters not if you’re Joseph Lowrey, Julian Bond, and OJ Simpson wrapped into one neat paranoid package, but it might help Obama if you and he didn’t scream BLACK every Time somebody questioned his basic competence and commitment to the American way of life (peace, prosperity, and progress based on MERIT and not simpleton retribution for perceived abuses).

    Clinton claimed to remember church fires in Arkysaw during his youth — never mind it was complete BS — and I’m sure you see whitey round every corner with a truck and chains, but honestly, do you need to go all Buffalo Soldier on the GOP when it comes to pass that your pandering prince of a POTUS is surrounded by tax cheats and liars and political Neanderthals that he himself picked?

    Where does the buck stop, Blago or Burris?

    Certainly not the Dow.

  • stuartzechman

    (sigh)…
    .
    Realize, fellow commenters, how neatly Joe has stepped into the new frame, i.e. that gravely intoned “Obama is on the attack. He’s not being serious, like us.” from certain center-right members of the political press corps.
    .
    Joe has accepted the “When Obamas Attack” narrative hook, line and sinker –he’s just attempting to defend Obama’s right to do whatever it is that Halperin & Co are telling everyone that Obama is doing.
    .
    Nowhere in this post will Joe come back at Scherer or Halperin with a denunciation of the press’ conduct, which is the underlying reason why anybody thinks that low political attacks (whether you think Obama’s doing that or not) work in the first place.
    .
    …opponents…have announced their patriotic hope that Obama fails at this moment of national crisis…
    .
    Yes, it is the “patriotic hope” of Rush and his listeners (who make up his political party’s hardcore base) that Obama fails to enact centrist policies.
    .
    As I mentioned yesterday:
    .

    To admit that, because Rush believes that a legitimately elected government’s attempts to confront an economic crisis with centrist economic policies is tantamount to Russia in October of 1917, Rush Limbaugh is praying for Obama’s “Russian Revolution” of 2009 to fail, and not wishing for Obama to bring about America’s destruction is honest.
    .
    If you’re f*cking crazy, and everyone you know is batsh*t insane because all you watch is these f*ckers on CNBC and Fox News Channel and Fox Business Channel, and all you listen to is Michael Savage and John Gibson, and all you read is the NY Post and the WS Journal and The Weekly Standard, and all the “information” available to you is telling you that spending is NOT stimulus, but a means for a depraved, failed ideology’s political proponents to completely take over the government, wrest the remaining wealth of the country from its citizens, and impose neo-Stalinist, fairness-doctrine rule while the nation’s enemies wait patiently and arm, then you bet your f*cking ass you’re hoping that the revolution is held at bay by the last remaining patriots. You’re probably hoping for the military to step in, actually. Hell yes you want the Communists to fail –preferably before the re-education camps and the five-year “Great Leap Forward” plans go into effect.
    .
    What’s wrong with Rush Limbaugh is that his base is not reality-based, and that’s why he wants Obama’s stimulus plan to fail.
    .
    What’s wrong with our press corps is that they have long since abdicated their constitutionally enumerated duty to prevent this sort of thing from ever happening. Our media elites are not reality-based either, unfortunately. Never before, at least in their lifetimes, have they ever had to bear any consequences for failure as a class.

    .
    What Joe has done here is take the first premise of Scherer’s post:
    .
    President Obama won the presidency by promising to be a different, more substantive, less gimmicky leader.
    .
    , and rebutted it by essentially saying “He is a different leader! He’s different because he’s not a Republican, and he’s a Democrat who fights dirty, like they all do!
    .
    Basically Joe is apologizing for Obama’s supposed (Halperin supplied) entry into “creative politics“.
    .
    The problem here is essentially the same as Scherer’s: Joe refuses to identify the real reason why the rightists desperately want Obama to fail: in the “fair and balanced” world of modern journalism, the rightists have been allowed to populate American political discourse with a menagerie of falsehoods and discredited theories without a peep from their more “Serious”, “objective” colleagues. The moment Kate O’Beirne was put “opposite” Doris Kearns-Goodwin, the moment Bill Safire was put “opposite” John Meacham, the moment Bob Novak was put “opposite” David Broder, the stage was set for an alternate universe of non-reality to exist in the minds of millions.
    .
    In an information context in which a “debate” can rage in mainstream news about whether FDR’s policies were helpful in solving or delayed getting us out or even caused the start of the Great Depression, it’s no wonder that the millions of Americans spoken to and for by Rush Limbaugh desperately want Obama to fail. In a news context in which there’s actually a seriously presented “debate” over the validity of the theory of natural selection, it’s no wonder that we have the political conflicts we have.
    .
    The Republican party’s base is not reality-based.
    .
    This isn’t a discussion of whether a ball was in or out by people who know the rules of tennis. This is a debate over how to save what’s left of the wealth of our nation between people and the other people who think everyone else besides themselves is a communist. This is a discussion of planetary orbits between Galileo and the judges who tried him for heresy.
    .
    This is a dangerous position for the country to be in. The Republicans do have a populist base that believes we’re about to do something unthinkably terrible to them and their country. We’re in a crisis, and it’s about to get worse. Instead of defending Obama’s superior political gamesmanship from the purveyors of a corrupt game, Joe should be demanding answers as to why Obama needs to play any games at all.

  • 53_3

    “but it might help Obama if you and he didn’t scream BLACK every…”
    .
    Wow, am I exalted! Me and Obama? Together? Forever?
    .
    Naw, hula, I just know you. I know you can’t stand that a Black man with a mind of his own got elected. You can’t stand it and it shows and I love rubbing that salt in the ol’ wounds that the impact of that rock from space I warned you about opened in your psyche.
    .
    You can deal with someone like Micheal Steele, whom Rush “put in his place”, but it’s abundantly clear you cant stand all this…
    .
    BLACKNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    .
    I LOVE it when a bigot has to confront his fears…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “Did anyone ever tell you that the DOW is not the economy?”

    Ahem.

    TELL THAT TO THE LITTLE OLD LADIES IN THE BOEING UNION HALL, GENIUS.

    May I make a suggestion, before you pull another El Paso Times out of your dented mental misfit of a market advisory?

    It would be a hell of a lot easier for the buyer types to buy were they not guaranteed massive tax increases, forced social programs, EU level government intrusion, and every other hindrance to efficiency and productivity, courtesy of the DNC.

    Obama’s a FLIP FLOPPER DELUXE, sees both sides of any argument just long enough to pick the worst aspect – and yet were told he’s some kind of enlightened genius? Like FDR, that damn near killed the country — and would have, short of the Nazis forcing him into dropping his anti-business protectionist crap?

    The UK leadership of 2009 won’t ever be confused for Winston Churchill, but they do have it right when the publicly warn Obama not to engage in trade wars.

    There are costs to be cut, but they do not begin at DOD. That simply adds to the instability that we’ve seen of late, and pulling back from the fray is a LOSER at all levels of national security.

    We’re 2 months into this mess, and while perhaps 10% of Obama’s ideas have some valid use, most of it is the same old list of liberal crap that it took 50 years to overcome, through 1994.

    He is not bright enough to see the folly of his ways, but the established investment community does, and they will not be part of his grand plan to rape business but for the sake of socialist meddling with no chance of success and less chance of accurate math.

    Projections aside — Obama’s bogus budget numbers or your personal paranoia as the standard bearer for all things African — you really should cut down on the caffeine.

    I mean, look what happened to Robin Williams today.

    And he’s a Williams that isn’t even black.

  • 53_3

    “This is a dangerous position for the country to be in. The Republicans do have a populist base that believes we’re about to do something unthinkably terrible to them and their country.”
    .
    The problem here is that they are very close to the boundary between free speech and incitement to violence. The Palin rallies late in the campaign were an indication just how bloody-minded some of these people may be.
    .
    The WaPo cartoon was incindiary and Rush himself is no shrinking violet when it comes to demonizing the President.
    .
    The potential for someone to go after the President if very high, if not just for the fact that out of those millions who listen to the likes of Rush, all it takes is a few to go over the edge. The Republican party and Rush are directly responsible for ratcheting up that hate to the limits the First Amendmant allows.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “This is a debate over how to save what’s left of the wealth of our nation between people and the other people who think everyone else besides themselves is a communist. This is a discussion of planetary orbits between Galileo and the judges who tried him for heresy.”

    Oh good grape.

    One more for 53:

    Uncle Tom’s Cabin was an abolitionist screed.

    When was it that you and the other Howard U. loons couldn’t countenance the thought of white people fighting to free black people?

    I’ve never really understood masochists, of course.

  • 53_3

    Of course, your suggestions, hula, have been pointed at by many, many, many people as having been tried already. Your subtle suggestions for tax cuts for the rich (“buyer types”!) have been tried and have totally, completely, and utterly failures. There is no one credible in the economic world that sees that as a soltuion.
    .
    And accurate math? Try this:
    http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/11/24/the-real-bailout-cost-7-4-trillion.aspx
    .
    Now, you can challenge them (and others!) as to the validity of those figures, but they are at the low end of the estimated cost of the Bernanke/GOP handout. It is nine times the size of Obama’s stimulus package.
    .
    I’d kick your arse again if I were you…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Based on 53′s limited world view (shaped somewhere between Stagger Lee Lane and Kayne West Cove), we’d have been better off skipping the Civil War altogether, because blacks of the 1860′s were on the verge of self-sufficiency, apparently.

    You know.

    Just like with the vote totals of November 2008.

    I rest my RACE.

    Next!

  • 53_3

    Hula. Yo! Hula!
    .
    What in blue blazes are you smoking? This is the second time you’ve put words in my mouth and then tried to chastize me for it!
    .
    Way to go!

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “The problem here is that they are very close to the boundary between free speech and incitement to violence.”

    QUIET RIOT ring any bells, Boris?

  • 53_3

    At least this time, hula, you actually quoted me!
    .
    Yer leanin!

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Like 53 (and Terrell Owens), Obama has an easy out:

    If his 4-year solo term goes down in flames (which it will, if he stays on this track) he can always claim it was because he was black.

    Call it the OJ Simpson Doctrine of DNC politics, for the moop century.

  • stuartzechman

    53_3:
    .
    Question Hillary isn’t particularly bigoted against African-Americans, QH genuinely believes that policies like affirmative action hurt AA’s. Since it’s “common knowledge” in Hannity’s world that this is the case, and that government unemployment insurance created the AA underclass in America, the worst thing that QH believes about AA’s as a people is that they’ve been had by former-Jim-Crow-enforcing Dixiecrats, and that they’re inexplicable suckers for overwhelmingly voting Democrat now.
    .
    QH has deep prejudices against gay people, however.
    .
    Also:
    .
    It’s actually kind of wrong for people to elicit racial epithets from their opponents in a political argument, 53_3, as in “Go on, say ‘black’…I dare you! Come on, say it!”, don’t you think?
    .
    Don’t you remember when commenters here did that sort of thing (“
    Go on, say ‘Mexican’…I dare you!”) to you during immigration reform debates, 53_3?

  • 53_3

    You lost, hula, both the debate and the exchange of bs.
    .
    I do have to say I was helped by not just one, but two “own goals” on your part though.
    .
    It’s always a pleasure to talk someone into self-immolation…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    We indeed remain a racist nation.

    We’ve got a racist President, a racist AG, a racist academia, and a racist press corps.

    Nothing more racist than that.

  • yoshiattack

    Mr. Klein, one important difference between Bush and Obama that you have failed to note in your column is that Bush’s policies have had reasonable time enough to make some sort of impact…thus, you can JUDGE him from your comfortable armchair of hindsight.
    .
    Another bit from your column: yes, Rove’s smear using 9/11 and the “patriotism” question was terrible. Ever noticed Obama’s starting along the same track, only he’s appealing to fear of the recession instead of fear of radical terrorists? “We must pass this stimulus immediately or else the sky will fall!” Politically, a tried and tested way of strong-arming a bill into law. This really should ring a few bells.
    .
    That’s okay though; now the congressional Democrats are wholly responsible for the effort – and politically, so is Obama. We’ll see how things turn out. Can’t do anything else, after all.
    .
    Here’s to hoping Obama figures out how to deliver on bipartisanship to “get things done.” Because he hasn’t shown much of it so far.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “QH has deep prejudices against gay people, however.”

    Now stop picking on Serth Nyers and SNL.

  • sacredh

    @stuartzechman: Your last paragraph contains the line “The republicans do have a populist base that believes we’re about to do something unthinkably terrible to them and their country”. That’s true. They’re more frightened of the coming change than they are of the country failing. I’m not speaking for anyone but myself, but I’m frightened too. I’m at the point where I now think that change might be the ONLY thing that can save the country. I’ve seen the majority of my stock portfolio’s value vanish. I’ve seen my savings almost depleted by an illness in my family. It’s only the incredibly fortunate luck of recently winning a sizable pile of cash on a $2 scratch-off that stopped me from having to sell a good chunk of my remaining stock to pay off medical bills. I look back at the last eight years and at the people that enabled this economic collapse to happen and I want them to suffer. I want them to be afraid. It’s petty and serves no purpose, but I don’t care about them. I would like the MSM to be responsible journalists and ferret out the truth no matter where it leads, but I don’t see that happening. I have alot of faith and hope invested in Obama and I’m sorry to admit this, but I want him to finish off the current incarnation of the republican party. I want to see it in the same shape that they have left the country in. I have little faith in the media. If the best they can do is to deliver a slap where a knock-out punch is warranted, I’ll settle for the slap. I don’t like it, but I’m at a loss as to what I can do to make a difference.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96O2D380&show_article=1&catnum=-1

    ….

    There’s no lack of hypocrisy and corruption in the DNC, that’s the main point I’ve tried to make.

    Along with some cheap laughs.

    Underpaid laughs, actually.

    When do I get union scale here?

    I demand to see my shop steward!

    I’m sure 53 does a fine job shelving books at the public library in Vancouver or wherever she works.

  • 53_3

    “It’s actually kind of wrong for people to elicit racial epithets from their opponents in a political argument, 53_3, as in “Go on, say ‘black’…I dare you! Come on, say it!”, don’t you think?”
    .
    Actually, sz, I didn’t elicit anything. And your perception of hula is based on your conclusions about what kind of individual he is.
    .
    We’ve been over this, and my opinion remains unchanged. Also of course, to add a bit of spice to this particular aspect of my exhanges, I might point out that there is no difference between someone who is effectively a bigot and someone who really believes in what they say*.
    .
    *The point was made to me about Rush’s conduct, which is indestinguishable from a racist – even if he doesn’t beleive in what he said.
    .
    The use of the keywords in hula’s occasional use of the ‘-stan’ endings and references to ‘third world’ and other comments in the past he has made was, and is, effectively, dogwhistle racism, which, just like Rush, is not distinguishable from true racism.

  • Friar Tuck

    Well, Joke Line, you’re up to 60 comments. The old salami starting to harden a little?

  • 53_3

    Stuart:
    .
    To respond a bit further on this, your point hula believes in these things is true doesn’t change things. I’ve been an adult for 40 years, and I’ve watched this set of beliefs – it is straight Southern Strategy (old term was ‘Angry White Male’).
    .
    That doesn’t absolve him, it only gave me background that I already knew, with the exception of the ‘not particularly bigoted’ part, which is only your own opinion.
    .
    Whatever his real beliefs are, his postions and commentary are not distinguishable from that of a racist.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “…demonizing the President…”

    Where were you clowns when Franken and Maher were cracking wise about Bush and Cheney getting assassinated?

    Hello?

    Anyone homer?

    There’s no place for such inflammatory verbiage, at any point — but don’t even start to suggest that “the DNC’s a match waiting to ignite the gas under Steele” [YOUR WHITE HOUSE TALKING THERE, DUDE, THIS VERY WEEK IN HISTORY] and think you’re not going to be called out on it.

  • 53_3

    Yes, with comments like “He is the head of the Republican Party”, and other such commentary. Admittedly very tongue-in-cheek, and also, admittedly, very “left handed”, but, what the hey! Hideous and hurtful. Wow! The venom! The spittle!
    .
    You know what I say? I say flatten his cat*!
    .
    Thanks Friar! You made my day, too!

  • sacredh

    Friar Tuck: Haha. Seriously, haha. Being here on Swampland might be only mental masturbation, but it’s entertaining. I know I take away far more than I contribute, but for free haha’s, I willing to take what I can get. thanks for the laugh.

  • 53_3

    I’m doing this as a break from my job. Same here. It can get a bit sticky, though, but what doesn’t.
    .
    It’s an art, it’s a science, and sometimes, it’s straight up plaigerism (of Friar’s commentary yesterday!). Hope he doesn’t sue me

  • Friar Tuck

    I am suspended midway between fascination and despair. Might as well enjoy myself while I’m hanging here.

  • http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/politics-comparison-bush-obama/ Politics comparison: Bush, Obama « Later On

    [...] in Bush Administration, Obama administration at 3:33 pm by LeisureGuy Joe Klein has a good column: It takes a fair amount of amnesia for a political spinmeister like Pete Wehner—who spent six [...]

  • Friar Tuck

    53_3, we’d both have to reveal our identities . . . and my family, at least, would be very disappointed.

  • 53_3

    Really, I’m trying to help Joe, but it’s a loooooong way to 390 and I’m about done.

  • 53_3

    “…and my family, at least, would be very disappointed.”
    .
    And you think you have problems?
    .
    Here. Try this.

  • Friar Tuck

    Where? Try what?

  • 53_3

    http://www.thebar.com/default.aspx
    .
    Not good at that href stufff.

  • 53_3

    Shoot. That didn’t even work. Oh well. Tanquerey and tonic.

  • Friar Tuck

    Great Ghu. Funny!

  • stuartzechman

    53_3:
    .
    I’m going to head off to my accountant now, but I’m wondering if you can clarify something for me:
    .
    In your opinion, is there a difference between someone who opposes Affirmative Action policies on the basis of their interpretation of the Equal Protection clause enumerated in the Constitution, and someone who opposes Affirmative Action policies on the basis of their dislike of African Americans, or are both theoretical opponents “effectively racists“?

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Meanwhile, back at NO CLUE HQ…

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29518044/

    I would like NBC to grant me at least a small byline, when I’ve been writing on this EXACT subject for some Time before they grabbed the monkey by the balls.

    Am I allowed to say “balls”?

  • http://jonorato42.wordpress.com/ John O

    Joe, thank you.

    Here’s what I wish you would talk about, off topic: I would like you to admit you’ve learned and grown from your toe-dip into the blogosphere, and have benefitted from the dialogue between yourself and the “rest of us.” At least those of us who care about politics, policy, and the future of our country.

    It would be incredibly interesting, and a possible MSM breakthrough if you did it well, which I have no doubt you could do being the wonderful writer you are.

    I was one of the first that could see you could be taught, and learn.

    I’m telling you, it would be a great Thought.

    You’re doing good.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    HOW TO KILL A COUNTRY, by Say Joe Biden & Brick Obongo

    “Biden supports bill to make unionizing easier

    By KELLI KENNEDY – 1 hour ago

    MIAMI BEACH, Fla. (AP) — Vice President Joe Biden pressed the White House’s agenda for a new labor bill Thursday before the nation’s largest union.

    The AFL-CIO “brought me to the dance a long time ago. And it’s time we start dancing, man,” he told the group, one of his biggest supporters during the election.

    Biden spoke warmly during the nearly hourlong speech in Miami Beach, addressing many members by name and offering support for the Employee Free Choice Act, which would give workers the option of unionizing by signing cards or petitions instead of holding secret ballot elections.

    On Tuesday, President Barack Obama offered some of his most supportive comments for the Act since he took office, telling AFL-CIO members in a videotaped message that he will work to pass the bill.

    Biden’s speech was the latest signal of the new administration’s pro-union tilt, including the appointment of Labor Secretary Hilda Solis, the daughter of union members. She was also in Miami this week drumming up support for the bill.

    Before the inauguration, AFL-CIO President John Sweeney said he’d been to the White House only once in the past eight years. Now he visits at least once a week.

    “He gave a strong statement of support for workers, their wages … collective bargaining and the Employee Free Choice Ace,” Sweeney said.

    Biden echoed the Obama administration’s platform during the campaign saying they were committed to raising the standard of living for the middle class, the spine of the economy.

    “For too long the middle class has been dealt out. I’m here to tell you in this administration it is dealt in. It is the first card on the table,” he said.

    Obama’s first bill was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, an equal-pay bill that is popular with labor and women’s groups. It’s expected to make it easier for workers to sue for decades-old discrimination.

    Labor officials say the Employee Free Choice Act could rebuild dwindling membership; one in eight workers today is a member of a union, down from about one in five 25 years ago.

    Business groups vehemently oppose the legislation and claim passage will put many of their members out of business.”

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jJtYl5TnPrfZkF57EVjBR3F6SQCQD96O5UEG0

    —————–

    And the libtards wonder why the Dow’s heading to 5000.

    Freaking IDIOTS.

  • spob

    When will Time Magazine cover this?

    http://www.redstate.com/dan_mclaughlin/2009/03/05/brazen-bigots/

    On the 12th, the day after the 11th of Never.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    spob
    ….

    I think you mean “when Hillary freezes over” (some more).

  • gysgt213

    “In your opinion, is there a difference between someone who opposes Affirmative Action policies on the basis of their interpretation of the Equal Protection clause enumerated in the Constitution.”
    .
    Stu-I have a question for you. Since 53 was specifically addressing Hulagate. What comments has Hulagate ever posted that might make you think that he even believes in the Constitution. Because I have to tell you, I have never seen one from him/her that even remotely demostrates that he/her gives a crap about that particular document.
    .
    Hulagate is the one making sure everyone knows he is talking about a “black man” You think he is doing that because he sincerely believes in the Constitution?

  • Deggjr

    Yoshiattack, the whole speed issue started with Bush-Bernacke-Paulson. ‘Bernacke studied the Great Depression’ and the government needed to act immediately. (I’ll dig up links if you need them.) McCain even suspended his presidential campaign. Obama’s message is consistent with the communication from and actions of the Bush Administration and presidential candidate John McCain.
    .
    Those that have the most information feel that immediate action is required. Yes, it feels like the runup to the Iraq Invasion but what else can be done?
    .
    In terms of bi-partisanship, did the Republicans put any ideas on the table besides tax cuts? If so, I missed them. They don’t like the stimulus package. Neither do I. I don’t have any better ideas. Neither do they. The Republicans are acting like three year olds throwing tantrums. Let the adults try to get out of this mess.

  • stuartzechman

    gysgt213:
    .
    What comments has Hulagate ever posted that might make you think that he even believes in the Constitution.
    .
    Unfortunately I haven’t been in the habit of archiving particularly representative posts from QH, I can’t link to them.
    .
    However, from what I can tell, QH seems to be an adherent to the Constitution In Exile theory, much like fellow rightists Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito.
    .

    The Constitution in Exile is a controversial term that refers to the situation resulting from provisions of the United States Constitution allegedly not having been enforced according to their “original intent” or “original meaning”. Some originalists might argue, for example, that the Commerce Clause and Necessary and Proper Clause do not authorise economic legislation dating all the way back to the New Deal.

    .
    The Constitution QH adheres to says that the entire government as currently composed is literally illegal, wrong and should be radically overturned.
    .
    Hulagate is the one making sure everyone knows he is talking about a “black man” You think he is doing that because he sincerely believes in the Constitution?
    .
    No, of course not. QH is speaking a sort of patois that’s grown up around rightist talk radio, a Dennis Millery sort of conservative-speak that has its own vocabulary based on warped premises and false “facts”.
    .
    One of the values of this jargon is the movement conservative pride in being “color blind”. Far from the liberal idea of “racial sensitivity” being the indicator of one’s good character, this notion in practice means that conservatives should demonstrate to the world that they can (paradoxically) un-self-consciously speak without regard to racial sensitivity rules, and therefore ignore race, proving their lack of racism. Whenever QH makes a joke that would offend liberals (whose offense is derived from their adoption of the value of “racial sensitivity”, and is in many cases second-hand) by not adhering to mainstream standards of acceptably racially sensitive speech, QH is actually proving how racist liberals are for noticing and reacting, and how tolerant and colorblind QH is for not caring.
    .
    The combination of speaking an almost entirely different dialect, much of which operates on entirely different thresholds and premises of what indicates good or bad character, and what the response to racism by good people actually should be, the constant desire for rebellious expression and conflict with the perceived (perhaps accurately) hegemonic culture of liberalism, and the reality of non-reality based thought produces QH’s attempts at playing the talk radio host whom QH views as courageously declaring independence into the void.
    .
    When QH is talking this way to us, we respond with “you’re off your meds again”, and QH laughs at us stupid libs who can’t even understand what any normal conservative would be laughing heartily about.
    .
    Every time somebody calls QH a racist, it’s another confirmation of QH’s belief that liberals are idiots who can’t even remember that Lincoln’s party was the party opposing Dixiecrats for the a century. That’s why QH pushes those buttons, gysgt213.

    That…and because we fall for it again and again.

  • yoshiattack

    Deggjr, I’m not so concerned with the prospect of early action (which incidentally had been taken months before Obama got into office, as 53 is fond of posting), but with the spectacle of the Democrats forcing every pet cause they could think of into a bill sure to pass anyway.
    .
    Yes, it’s unrealistic and totally contradictory to the cynical world of politics. But I would have liked congressmen and women to put away silly ideas like $350 million for condoms. Who knows what other silliness was stuck in there…
    .
    Actually, the RAT board is a lot more than silliness. Giving a politically influenced third party the power to regulate the supposedly apolitical inspector generals’ decisions is a recipe for disaster. I hope it doesn’t come to that.

  • stuartzechman

    Just so that people know that movement conservatives are debating (warning, music file will open) whether or not they can openly sound like QH as we speak.
    .
    David Frum (establishment conservative) describes radio talk show host Mark Levin as “crazy talk”.

  • formerlyjames

    Klein, if you’re still checking this thread, please do a thing on Russia and how the Russian foreign minister has to graceously correct the State Dept. clumsy attempt at humor in the Russian language. Can nobody there speak the language? Has it been unnecessary for so long?

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