In the Arena

Shocking

A fair number of people, including some editors I know, are amazed that Barack Obama is actually trying to do what he said he would do during the campaign. And, I must admit, I wasn’t convinced he would go all the way with programs like cap-and-trade limitations on carbon emissions. But he is. And, I suspect, the public is ready for it.

Republicans, stunned that what passed for conventional wisdom for thirty years is no longer operative, are still attempting arguments like this one:

“The risks are too much too soon, and piling on, and triggering class warfare,” said Kenneth Khachigian, a former aide to Richard M. Nixon and Ronald Reagan.

In truth, class warfare is what the Reagan Era gave us: thirty years of tax breaks for the wealthy at the expense of the common weal, thirty years of lax regulations which enabled the bankers to strip-mine the savings of average Americans while reaping huge rewards in Ponzi schemes, like the micro-dividing of mortgage assets that were really debits. Once again, I’m not sure Obama’s proposals will work–some will surely be more successful than others, there’s a good chance that rather than being too bold, he isn’t being bold enough–but I am absolutely certain where the continuation, or augmentation, of Reagan-Bush policies would leave us: even worse off than we are now.

Update: E.J. Dionne has more on this theme, laying out the real stakes of the game.

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  • gysgt213

    It’s amazing that “class warfare” is only mentioned when it involves taxing the rich and its primarily mentioned by rich commentators who have a stake in the game.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Great post Joe. Yes, that the Serious People in the Beltway are shocked to see that he meant what he said is a fascinating phenomenon. Tapper’s tweets have been especially amusing in this way.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Here is the problem with using the tired old “class warfare” argument. The gulf between the have and have nots in this country has become so marked that the have nots probably WANT a little class warfare. Like I believe it was Jon Stewart said, the Republicans are now pinning their hopes on people hating that villain of all villains we all read about growing up, Robin Hood. To that I say, have at it hoss!

  • rustyreturns

    “Class warfare”, Joe? Anyone for a “Tea Party”? Welcome to Obama-land ladies and gentlemen, where TAX and SPEND rules the day. Oh, how about another 30 billion to AIG. No Joe, the real truth is no matter how much the mega-rich have, there will never be enough money in their bank accounts to pay off the immense debt Obama is creating. Once Obama proliferates all that he can from the “top 5%”, 85% of the current spending spree will fall on the backs of the middle class disguised as a “cap and trade” “tax”. $500 a month for electricity in a depression anyone? Oh I am sure my esteemed liberals will say, “we will never allow the electric company to charge more to the consumer so the electric company can recapture their losses”.

    .
    Sorry Joe, the only warfare you shall witness will be the revolt of sane Americans who knew full well what an Obama Administration would bring to our Country. You will witness these great Americans taking back our Country out of the hands of a complete imbecile.

  • plukasiak

    so far, Obama has merely proposed doing what he said he’d do while campaigning. But as we saw with both the “recovery” bill, and now health care reform, he talks a good game, then punts to Congress where special interests (and “partisan” politics) define what “fulfilling his campaign promises” means.
    _
    In other words, Obama appears to be more concerned with filling out a checklist for his promises than actually implementing solutions. It doesn’t matter if the “stimulus” bill works or not — he got it passed and gets his check mark. It won’t make any difference if what gets passed under the heading “health care reform” actually works — Obama gets his check mark if it passes.
    _
    and it would appear that “cap and trade” will fall into the same category; he’ll punt it to Congress, which will load it full of pointless and counter-productive provisions, and Obama will take credit for getting it “done”.

  • ottoman88

    Can’t remember where I saw it, but after the lass press conference, some reporter noted that most of the members of the press who were asking pointed and antagonistic questions about the plan to raise taxes on those making incomes over $250,000 were themselves making far more than $250,000.
    .
    I think it’s high time we know the salaries of the reporters and pundits who are bringing us the news. If they’re reporting through a lens of what’s best for their wallets — and not the rest of us — we need to know, or we need to find new people to ask questions for us.

  • kristiia

    Not only is Obama doing what he said he would but he is doing what people actually VOTED FOR by a large margin.

    Journos/Pundit pack is shocked!

    People didn’t really mean it when they voted for it.

    Obama didn’t really mean it when he said it.

    What??? They did? He did?

    Hopefully, you guys will call out the big $$$ journalists who seem to be completely focused on the top 2% of earners in the country. Hey, how does the other 98% manage to live? Please, spare us the pity party for the $250,000+ earners. Most of us would love to have that problem.

    Thank you, Joe!

  • ottoman88

    Anyone for a “Tea Party”?
    .
    Are you suffering under the delusion that the government is taxing us without the consent of our duly-elected representatives? Or do you think that the Boston Tea Party was a protest against a plan that gave 95% of the colonists a tax cut?

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    It’s really funny seeing the wingnuts talk about a tea party. Because, of course, the Burkean Tories were against the tea party. it was the progressives of the time who were seeking independence.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    The most hilarious thing I heard today was the Morning Joe crew trying to assert that Americans didn’t vote for President Obama’s agenda, they just voted to get Bush out of office. Uhmmm Bush wasn’t going to be in office anyway and John McCain claimed he wouldn’t follow in Bush’s footsteps. Have they forgotten that it was John McCain who proposed an across the board spending freeze? Of course they haven’t, but they want to tell people what to believe and how to believe it. They just continue to kill their own credibility and its absolutely laughable. Pat Buchannan said in two weeks President Obama’s approval ratings would be down in the 50s. I hope he doesn’t gamble very often lol.

  • kbanginmotown

    Joe: You just have to look back to the 2008 election to gauge the mood of the middle class: over the course of 2 years, millions of folks placed modest bets of $10, $20 or $100 on “Hope”, and, *together*, were able to outspend the usual suspects who appear to control government. The American people have voted for change, and a couple of weeks of doomy, gloomy talk by the CPAC crowd is hardly going to derail a grassroots effort to improve the US Government and the economic situation of the majority of citizens.

  • plukasiak

    Welcome to Obama-land ladies and gentlemen, where TAX and SPEND rules the day.
    _
    unfortunately, except for some minor increases in taxes on the wealthy, Obama appears to be more in the mode of GWB — Borrow and Spend. (Obama’s middle class tax cuts adds far more to the deficit than his tax increases on the wealthy.)
    _
    The point here is that there is nothing wrong with “tax and spend” — that’s what the government is supposed to do — and when that happens, voters get to decide whether they are happy with how their money is being spent. But when its “borrow and spend”, voters aren’t paying for the programs — they’re just making the “minimum credit card payment” and getting constant increases in their credit limit.

  • sacredh

    The “class war” has already been fought. We lost. It’s taken an economic meltdown to start up the battle again. The republican party has fallen on hard times now, but you have to give them credit for running a spin machine that redefined the terms of the struggle. They managed to relabel the estate tax as the “Death Tax”. That sounds so unfair and scarey. By making it sound as if the government was going to step in and take away the $60,000 house, 7 year old car and $2,500 in savings that mom and dad left you when they died they were able to pass legislation that protected the real fortunes that the truly wealthy inherited. Now they see the gravy train griding to halt but they don’t have the brains or leadership in Washington to mount another disinformation campaign. They have Limbaugh and Palin as their frontline now. Take no prisoners.

  • plukasiak

    Take no prisoners.
    _
    I’m all for “class warfare”, the problem is that Obama seems to be on the side of the wealthy. His ridiculously expensive Wall Street bailout benefits the wealthy far more than his minor tax increases do (about 85% of stocks is owned by the wealthiest 10%).

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Not to put too fine a line on it, but President Bush bailed out AIG, Wall Street, and the Big 2.5 before President Obama ever got into office. Nice try though.

  • sacredh

    plukasiask: I agree that the bailout of Wall Street benefits the weatlhy now, but I think letting the banks fail would be far more devastating to the average American than it would be for the wealthy. We’re getting hammered right now but the wealthy are going to get their turn down the road. They’re losing some of their wealth and it just makes them less wealthy. For us, we’re losing our homes and retirements. The tax cuts on the upper 5% expire in two years. That’s a start. I also agree that the bailout is ridiculously expensive but I think the alternative would result in a prolonged depression that would be even worse for the average American. It may not work, but I believe we have to try. It’s going to take time before we see any tangible results.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    I think Bush and Obama have done OK in the financial sector. I’m not an expert like John McCain but when even Warren Buffet claims he doesn’t understand derivatives you know how bad the problem is. The money market has essentially disappeared. No one knows how big the problem is. It is sort of like trying to pinpoint the edge of space. The paper has to be unraveled and there is hardly any paper trail. No one trusts anyone because they don’t know who has the worst crap. The crap is mixed in with the good stuff, but the whole thing has been discounted to nothing. As a result, it isn’t really for sale. The banks would rather leave it on their books than sell it. Because of the mark to market rules, they also have to lower their lending.
    .
    Who else is big enough to solve this problem but the government. The banks are getting special attention because of the role they play not because of the high moral character of the people who lead the industry. Let’s hope they figure it out. There may already be a few rays of light.

  • donovong

    So, let me get this straight. An old, angry WASP Reagan-worshiping Republican is pi$$ed off about Obama. Didn’t that guy lose the election?

  • Matt

    The GOP is caught off guard? Is that why their sham of an “alternative” to Obama’s policies is essentially “NO”?

    http://www.political-buzz.com/

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  • sevenoaks07

    sgw: at home because of weather. Saw Morning Joe for a while and what a rubbush heap it is. Mika and Rush: why is she scared? Pat and the rest: have these people had an original thought since 2000?

    ottoman 88: excellent point. We should know how much the journalists op-ed types tv talking heads who criticise taxing the rich earn. Then we will see the context.

  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    The latest from John Boehner: Taxpayer Tea Parties: Americans Speak Out Against Washington Democrats’ Tax-and-Spend Agenda
    .
    I am appalled that GOP is co-opting Boston Tea Party after decades of supporting taxation without representation in DC.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    sevenoaks07
    .
    Mika said CPAC was great and that’s all you need to know about her. What a frikkin airhead. Definitely adopted.

  • sacredh

    donovong: That’s pretty much the case in a nutshell. The republicans look at Reagan as their bright shining light. They held debates at his library and fell all over each other trying to compare themselves to him. Dubya is relying on future historians to rehabilitate his disasterous presidency. Wouldn’t it be ironic if those same future historians see the Reagan years as the root of the economic collapse? Kachigian might be wondering the same thing and of course it upsets him. Nothing upsets the devout more than finding out that their god had racing stripes in his underwear too.

  • akhinaten

    The new word is: Gamble…… let us if we can all use it without awaking insinuating that we belong to an inbred called national media…… Broder uses the adjective Gamble to describe Obama’s budget and now every one and his illiterate mother is using it.

    some say Obama is gambling

    some say the budget is a gamble

    but why use the term “gamble” which denotes a lack of “deliberative haste”

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  • bobcn1

    gysgt213 wrote: It’s amazing that “class warfare” is only mentioned when it involves taxing the rich and its primarily mentioned by rich commentators who have a stake in the game.
    .
    I’ve been concerned about this phenomenon for quite some time. It frustrates me to listen to so-called moderates and non-partisans on the radio expressing their concerns about rising taxes for the wealthy for hour after hour while not having a word to say about the rest of us. You would think that with 95% of us getting tax cuts, there would be at least a bit of talk about that. Maybe the hours of discussion wouldn’t have a ratio of 19 hours talking about cuts for 95% versus 1 hour worrying about the wealthiest 5% — which, after all, would fairly represent the ratio of people being affected. In a supposedly market driven medium wouldn’t a station (or newspaper or magazine) want to present the average listener with at least some discussion of taxes that is relevant to him? I’d even be happy with a 50-50 split between worrying about annoying the wealthy versus talk of the rest of us getting a break. Instead we get nothing but concern that those with most of the country’s wealth will have to pay what they paid before Bush.
    .
    Wars of choice have to be paid for. Years of lax regulation are forcing us to spend to save the economy from sinking further. After years of having the playing field tipped in their direction, do the wealthiest expect the rest of us (some of whom are really struggling right now) to pick up the tab? Apparantly so.
    .
    In the same way that “class warfare” only seems to apply to the concerns of the well off, when we discuss the stimulus we only seem to talk about the cost and whether it’s helping Wall Street. Very little time is spent discussing the fact that last month over 600,000 people lost their jobs (and the month before that, and the month before that).
    .
    As Warren Buffet said: ‘There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.’
    .

  • spob
  • dfh

    The Republicans are in a mad panic right now because next month when 95% of Americans start recieving a tax cut in their paychecks they will no longer be able to lie on Fox news about how Obama is raising middle class taxes to pay for the stimulus. They have no plan and are recycling the same old trash talk from 20 years ago.

  • Ivy_B

    As to Reagan, Will Bunch has a good book out – Tear Down This Myth. Jayack interviewed Will a couple of weeks ago – that’s worth checking out as well.
    .
    There was a lot of talk about the survey of economists who favored the stimulus by 65%, but not the “nationalization” of banks. This American Life had a good program this week on banks, which explains the problem very clearly.
    http://www.thislife.org/
    .
    All of the people complaining about giving money to banks, don’t seem to present another solution. I hate giving more money to AIG, but they have lots of this worthless mortgage paper.
    .
    BTW, I’ve changed my display name from ivb3016 to match my twitter name.

  • 53_3

    I wonder just how the hell people like Rusty the Wonder Bigot and Hulagate plan to “take back America”?
    .
    With guns?

  • 53_3

    “Sorry Joe, the only warfare you shall witness will be the revolt of sane Americans who knew full well what an Obama Administration would bring to our Country.”
    .
    Wow. I shoulda looked up thread. My question was rhetorical, given the likely impossibility of it.
    .
    I guess that I was arfing wrong

  • 53_3
  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    53_3 they both make me wish Frank Zappa was still alive.

  • newfloridian

    I think class warfare is already ON. The rich are loosing their shirts on Wall Street, and many have lost vast wealth due to corrupt Ponzi schemes designed by some of their own. Basically it is now the wealthy devouring the wealthy! It was the wealthy setting up the middle class for devourment. They just turned their attention to high grade meals. Invest and hold was always a manipulative stock advisement.

    The middle class are loosing our 401K’s, but they were pipe dreams predicated on an ever expanding market. Those in the know on wall street already knew 401K’s were a sucker play that lined up the little guy’s assets into a vehicle which was easy to pilfer. So was mortgage packaging.

    I put my retirement funds into cash, including my wife’s bank pension funds a year from last October. Now I just watch the manipulators play the market and follow their leads. There is a lot of manipulation of the low hanging fruit now days— the bank stocks. They rise and fall sometimes 15 to 30% in one or two days. The carnivores on wall street are feasting, buying low – pushing up prices and dumping. Don’t get fooled into thinking that everyone is loosing money in the market.

  • Ivy_B

    Greg Sargent posts the Bill Kristol memo urging the defeat of Clinton’s health plan. Showing once again, country first – but only as a slogan.
    .
    http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/current-gop-strategy-echoes-kristols-1993-memo-urging-obstruction-of-dems/

  • rustyreturns

    Be very afraid, 53_and no sense!
    .
    http://www.altermedia.info/civil-rights/american-gun-stores-running-out-of-ammo_704.html

    .

    It is actually quite simple, the 2nd American Revolution. Be very afraid little liberals.

  • 53_3

    joyorama:
    I love Frank Zappa. I remember, toot toot, down by the swimming pool…
    .
    Rusty, you loon, that’s old news. Very, very old news, and has nothing to do with your treasured “revolution”.
    .
    That is something that only exists in what’s left of your mind.
    .
    Remember that rock from space I kept warning you to watch out for?
    .
    It already hit. The extinction horizon is above your head…

  • 53_3

    newfloridian:
    .
    A little silver would be a good bet, too.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    So we should be afraid that little racist Rusty bought himself a gun?
    I’ll bet he still has that Y2K shelter to hide out in if things get really hairy? Good thing the NSA’s already got a lock on that GPS in your celphone. You’ll be no match for the black helicopters.

  • 53_3

    Rush Limbaugh + Rusty + Gun = ?

  • 53_3

    Just out of curiosity, are there a lot of those crackheads talking like this since Rush made his “take back the country” speech?
    .
    Whatever happened to “ballots, not bullets”?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    More from Rusty’s link:
    No revolution was ever accomplished without some martyrs. The revolution that restores the legitimacy of white identity and the legitimacy of white interests will be no exception.
    .
    But it is a revolution that is absolutely necessary. The white majority is foolish indeed to entrust its future to a utopian hope that racial and ethnic identifications will disappear and that they won’t continue to influence public policy in ways that compromise the interests of whites.
    .

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Just in case anyone couldn’t tell that Rusty was a Nazi before!

  • 53_3

    Rusty is a Jihadist! Maybe he should martyr himself.
    .
    I had no idea. Do you suppose Al Queda would take him?
    .
    Also, I think your somewhat jestful comment above might be closer to the truth than you think, Paul…

  • 53_3

    Seriously, Paul D. He could be dogwhistling a call to arms.

  • 53_3

    It would be nice if the High Sheriffs alerted the Secret Service.

  • Friar Tuck

    “It is actually quite simple, the 2nd American Revolution. Be very afraid little liberals.”
    .
    Ohhh, I’m quaking in my widdle boots, rustydouche!
    .
    Be a real man and give your real e-mail address if you want to make threats.

  • dfh

    Sounds like Rusty is threatening violence. You need to calm down little man. We did not threaten to shoot people when Bush came to power. You lost get over it.

  • stuartzechman

    # ottoman88 Says:
    .
    Monday, March 2, 2009 at 9:04 am

    Can’t remember where I saw it, but after the lass press conference, some reporter noted that most of the members of the press who were asking pointed and antagonistic questions about the plan to raise taxes on those making incomes over $250,000 were themselves making far more than $250,000.
    .
    I think it’s high time we know the salaries of the reporters and pundits who are bringing us the news. If they’re reporting through a lens of what’s best for their wallets — and not the rest of us — we need to know, or we need to find new people to ask questions for us.

    .
    ottoman88:
    .
    Here’s what you’re looking for:
    .

    Q On jobs, which is the big complaint up on Capitol Hill right now from Republicans, that this plan is a job killer, I mean, the $787 billion plan was all about jobs more than anything else, and now you’ve got a plan in place that — how can you possibly tax people making over $250,000 something like $667 billion over the next 10 years and not have a downward effect on jobs?
    .
    MR. GIBBS: Well, Chip, how did it work in 1994 and 1995 and 1996 and 1997?

    .
    , and
    .

    Q And a huge percentage of those people are small business owners.
    .
    MR. GIBBS: Some of them are, sure. Some of them are big business owners. Some of them are home-run hitters in major league baseball. Some of them run kickoffs back for a living. Some of them are the President of the United States.
    .
    Q But a lot of them create jobs.
    .
    MR. GIBBS: Some of them — certainly, some of them, that’s what their job is. But I would reject this overall premise that when we’re asking for tax fairness from the American people, that we’re — that this is going to kill jobs. I guess if I follow the logic of the Republicans on Capitol Hill, how do you explain last month’s unemployment figures? Current tax rates, 550,000 jobs — what happened?
    .
    Q This is a unique moment. (Laughter.)

  • 53_3

    Here’s another interesting turd that bobbed to the surface, a relic of yesterwhen:
    http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090302/full/news.2009.130.html

  • stuartzechman

    rustyreturns:
    .
    A whole bunch of us liberals have gotten the message about our 2nd Amendment rights to defend ourselves.
    .
    You won’t be the only ones with weapons, Rusty, remember that.
    .
    Also remember what put an end to slavery and then segregation, fellow American.

  • Andy from MA

    Joe, nice piece. You mixed your accounting metaphors. In\ think you meant to say ‘liablities’instead of ‘debits.’ I think it makes your post clearer.

    Thanks.

  • Cliff

    Any bets on how long it is before Rusty gets banned again?

  • Friar Tuck

    Depends on how hard we poke him

  • cincinnatus est exterminata!

    Good post Joe. We definitely dodged a couple bullets last year, McCain and Hillary. Had Hillary somehow won, I think it’s safe to say the lions share of her promises would have already been tossed out by now in favor of the centrist corporate-friendly policies the Clintons are known for. I think we have a good couple years before she starts to try and undermine Obama’s fo po and starts to play her game and by that time, it may be to late for her. Let’s hope.

  • 53_3

    He might have already gotten banned. What worries me is just how many other nutballs are out there itching to do the same thing after imbibing a bottle of Noz and some of what Rush is serving up.

  • Paul-no not that one

    The Viet Nam Vet, Successful Businessman, Physician, Husband, Father with friends and family in Iraq is back? Clearly one of our most credentialed commenters ever.

  • plukasiak

    All of the people complaining about giving money to banks, don’t seem to present another solution. I hate giving more money to AIG, but they have lots of this worthless mortgage paper.
    _
    so, let them fail. If we have to spend 30 billion, I say give it to the lower and middle income people whose retirement funds are being destroyed… target the people who can least afford to take the hit for aid, rather than the 10% of Americans who own 90% of the nation’s financial wealth.

    There are over 8200 banks in the United States, and more than enough insurance companies and brokerages to absorb the business that AIG, Citibank, et al now perform — they are not essential to the American economy. If our automakers go belly up, the beneficiaries will be foreign companies — if the big financial companies go belly up, there are more than enough American companies doing the same thing.

  • Ivy_B

    This column by Joe Nocera delves into the AIG problem and why we have to deal with it. It isn’t as simple as let it fail and let the bank around the corner deal with it.
    .
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/business/28nocera.html?_r=1&ref=business

  • newfloridian

    Rusty’s problem is that he is locked away in a basement somewhere listening over and over to the Beatles, “Happiness is a Warm Gun.” That’s what happens if you sleep with weapons instead of women. Rusty, try women, you’ll actually like people again.

  • vandeman

    I just love reading the comments on Time’s website, all the whining libs with their fear mongering and race bating. The current economic crisis can be traced back to Bill Clinton strong arming the banks in to loosening credit requirements because “everyone deserves to own a home” (a false premise to begin with), and the Dem’s refusal (read Barney Frank) to reign in fannie and freddie. It’s amazing to me that Obama thinks we can tax and spend our way out of this recession and as icing on top he’s going to allow the eco-nazi’s at the EPA regulate CO2 as a pollutant…which BTW is nothing but a tax on, you guessed it, the poor and middle class. Congrats Lefties, soon you’ll be living in the North American version of Europe, where everything is cultured and tolerant and you can’t take a dump without The Man granting you a permit to flush. 2012 can’t get here soon enough.

  • 53_3

    Ah, yes. Clinton. The eye of the Evil Devil!
    .
    How could I forget!
    .
    After all, it was him that caused the Nisqually Earthquake out here in 2003!

  • vandeman

    What?? I thought George Bush caused that earthquake (which BTW occurred in 2001, no doubt a precursor to the 911 conspiracy), everything else under the sun got blamed on him.

  • 53_3

    vandeman:
    .
    Oh, hell no. Clinton told me himself, between mistresses. He thought it up in 2003 and actually went back in time to 2001 to have it done!
    .
    The scurrulus rat.
    .
    Never mind that the last eight years actually did happen and they weren’t just a bad dream after all.
    .
    But hell, vandeman, you can live in your fantasy. It’s ok. You’ll be just fine won’t we…

  • 53_3

    By the way, vandeman, which side are you choosing?
    .
    ____Rush Limbaugh
    .
    ____Joe Steele
    .
    On your vote rides the fate of the, uh, um, well what is that maddly twirling peice of dust we live on called?
    .
    Oh, yeah. Earth. Or something like that…

  • flagrantenigma

    Rustette is just a sad little boy with too much free time on his hands. Ignore the bleating little Limbaugh dancer.

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