In the Arena

Balance

Over the past few weeks, the Obama Administration has been engaged in truly shocking behavior. It is letting Israel know when the U.S. disapproves of its actions, and appointing people to the government who have not been slavish devotees of the right-wing Likud line in the past. George W. Bush never did that!

So Hillary Clinton is under fire for allegedly telling the Israelis that they should open the Gaza borders to humanitarian aid. (The Israeli government is keeping the borders closed as a bargaining chip in the effort to get a soldier held prisoner by Hamas released from captivity.) And various of the usual suspects are bleating about the appointment of the estimable, but too pro-Saudi for my taste, Chas Freeman to chair the National Intelligence Council. And others are outraged that the Obama Administration hasn’t ruled out participating in a U.N. Council on racism, which usually features racist diatribes directed at Jews.

Now, many of these neocons have been gunning for Obama from the start…and have been just twitching in anticipation of the chance to paint him anti-Israel or worse. Their tendency to slime their detractors with overwrought epithets–anti-semite is the old standby–has diminished whatever power that term once held. In this case, once again, they are standing athwart America’s best interests–and Israel’s: it’s about time that the U.S. starting calling Israel on its excesses. Clinton is right, for example: Israel’s strangle-hold on the Gaza crossings gave Hamas a rationale for its rocketing of innocent Israeli civilians. And furthermore, Israel’s steady accretion of settlements on Palestinian lands gives credibility to Palestinian extremists who believe that Israel has no interest in a truly viable two-state solution. 

And as for conferences on racism, Israel’s supporters will have less credibility to complain about international forums where slogans like “zionism is racism” are bruted about if the anti-Arab bigot Avigdor Lieberman is included in the new Israeli government. 

Israel is a crucial ally. For me, as a Jew, it is a cherished restitution of an ancient homeland, and simple justice for thousands of years of atrocities directed against my ancestors. But its founding was also a last gasp of western colonialism–and its future depends on its ability to retreat from internationally acknowledged Palestinian lands and from the oppression that it routinely visits on the Palestinian people (the system of checkpoints on the West Bank, particularly in border citiess like Ramallah, seems a vicious, intentional humiliation). Israel has every right to defend itself–yes, even in Gaza, within reason, after the hail of thousands of rockets on Israeli civilians–but the U.S. has the responsibility to call Israel out when its behavior turns destructive and immoral.

Related Topics: Uncategorized
  • Latest on Swampland

    Pete Souza / White House

    Obama’s Persuasive Powers on Gay Marriage Manifest in Maryland

    When President Obama endorsed gay marriage earlier this month, the media grappled with two basic political questions: Was his personal “evolution” a case of a politician transparently following a national trend toward accepting same-sex unions (accelerated, perhaps, by his chatty No. 2), and would it hurt his re-election chances by alienating socially conservative voters like black churchgoers? Sure, there was a recognition that it marked a gratifying moment for gay-marriage advocates — as well as some grumbling about the President’s view that it remains a state issue, not a federal one. But by and large, there were few suggestions that one man, even the President, would shift public opinion on the issue or affect public policy. Based on a new Public Policy Polling survey out of Maryland, it seems this possibility was underestimated.

    Lewis Eisenberg, Major Romney Donor, Accuses Obama Of Demonizing Wall StreetHuffPost Politics

    Cherokee Zero

    Apparently, Massachusetts voters don’t mind that Elizabeth Warren foolishly identified herself as a Native American early in her academic career–it was, apparently, a case of family pride and wishful thinking about a Cherokee ancestor. That’s good. Warren may be the best public figure when it comes to explaining the depredations of the financial industry and [...]

  • kathy

    Amen Joe

  • cfukara

    JK For an American (?), you are . engaged in truly shocking behavior ..

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Hmm… all these facts are hurting my brain. Can’t you just tell me who are the Freedom Fighters and who are the terrorists? Thanks in advance.
    -
    Love in Christ,
    -Every single Republican

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Imagine that, Hillary Clinton said what many commenters have been saying ever since Israel started their military offensive in Gaza and NOW Joe Klein takes notice. Did you also notice Joe Klein what it is they aren’t letting in to the Gaza? Frikkin macaroni and lentils. And surprise surprise after Hillary got on their ass they let in at least some of the aid but still won’t let in a lot of the other food and essentials. There are literally millions of dollars worth of aid that WE sent over there with our tax dollars just sitting there at the border.
    .
    Maybe just MAYBE if journalists shined a light on that situation instead of running from it then it would a helluva lot harder for the neocons to smear you Joe Klein. Do you think the American people are going to stand for them calling you an anti semite if you report on the situation in Gaza with indisputable proof? Hell no. Our country for the most part is a compassionate one and we don’t like to see people starving no matter who in the hell they are. When you put out the truth to the people then the people will back you up. If you are tired of the neocons calling you and everybody else who offers even the slightest criticism of Israel anti semites then take your case to the people and let them see WHY you are criticizing and let them judge who is the real anti semite. Otherwise all you are doing is helping them make the case against you when you don’t break it down to people who really don’t know whats going on.

  • http://policingwingnutwelfare.blogspot.com/ JJ

    “But its founding was also a last gasp of western colonialism…”
    I’m not so sure about that:
    http://www.aei.org/events/filter.,eventID.428/summary.asp
    http://www.cfr.org/publication/6096/washington_needs_a_colonial_office.html

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Thank You points from Boob Rubin…

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Economy-shrinks-even-more-apf-14491192.html;_ylt=AoYPQ5o0ADMQI0klpflYVMG7YWsA

    CLIXON REGIMES = CRIMES AGAINST AMERICAN HUMANITY

    Where’s Ken Starr when we need him?

    LET THE HEARINGS COMMENCE.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Israel should open their borders to terrorists the same day BJ Clixon opens up ALL his Legacy For Sale lieberry archives to the American people.

    You know.

    When Hillary freezes over.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “…its founding was also a last gasp of western colonialism…”

    ???

    Not a freakin clue.

    What in the wide world of warts do you have against FREELY ELECTED STATES? Hamas and Hezbollah pointing AK-47′s at the heads of their locals before voting IS not representative government, sorry Say Joe.

    You’re the biggest flaming apologist for the Iranian export of terrorism in the known press.

    Go back to writing cartoon books for D.C. cult sycophants, and leave the Israeli people alone.

    They’re really pretty busy, with far better things to do than shoo away the bar flies.

  • 53_3

    Joe, you went and done it this time. I think you have the most accurate overall view of any pundit regarding Israel.
    .
    Obama is going to have to do a lot of leaning, though. You have a warmonger of the worst stripe hugging an avowed racist over there, and if we can’t enforce a reasonable, just peace on Israel (the government there is in no mood to), look for Bibi to try to sink Obama’s ship of state, or worse, the economy, or worse yet, touch off an exchange of WMD.
    .
    And that as most anyone knows, will make Christian fundamentalist biblical-doomsday afficianados cheer loudly.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “…open the Gaza borders to humanitarian aid…”

    So Hamas can steal it for re-sale on the black market, just like they always do.

    [Am I allowed to use the term "black market" without approval from 53 and/or Eric WHAT PARDONS Holder?]

    Why is the loon left not screaming daily for international military monitoring of the Gaza Strip and West Bank and south Lebanon?

    You know why, but I’ll reiterate here for the newbies:

    Because IRANIAN ARMS SHIPMENTS are oozing out from under the Hamas and Hezbollah rocks worse than Bill Clinton’s drip at the Cheataqua STD Free Clinic.

    Hillary has her head up Mrs. Arafat’s MisState Dept funded ASS, again?

    Some change, those ones.

  • Friar Tuck

    Boy, are the fundies gonna be surprised when the Middle East blows itself to atomic smithereens, Christ doesn’t come, and we’re all stuck with the mess they created!
    .
    I hope they enjoy radioactive clean-up, because they will be volunteered!

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “…look for Bibi to try to sink Obama’s ship of state, or worse, the economy, or worse yet, touch off an exchange of WMD…”

    = LOONTARD ACCOMPLISHED =

    What did you do for work, 53, after they filled the quota for terrorists on 9-11?

    It must have been a real downer, not being able to participate directly in the burning flesh of so many Jews and other innocent Americans that day, eh?

    Go back to Vancouver, and stay there.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Klein and 53 are picking up where Rev Wrong and David Duke left off?

    BUTT of course.

    After all, that IS what loons do.

    Oh well.

    HEZBOLLAH HAPPENS.

  • cfukara

    ” .. Israel is a crucial ally. .. “
    Has anybody cared to explain to the hard-working, very hard-working Americans what “crucial” means here?
    And explain why Israel holds every American in bondage of PAYING more than $2,000 a year to each (supremacist, indolent and belligerent) person in that country even as we have over 30 million starving American kids – and even as people in such third world countries generally survive on less that $300 a year?
    [OK. Let us declare every third world country a "crucial ally" ... and thereby realize a precious dream of the 1960s .. After all, in melting pot America, those countries are cherished homelands seeking simple justice for thousands of years of atrocities (by the west) directed against their ancestors..]

    ” .. neocons have been gunning for Obama from the start…and have been just twitching in anticipation of the chance to paint him anti-Israel or worse. ..”

    “worse”?
    Says who?

    As Dick Cheney may ask, “So?”

    Let us see: How many ways do we love thee – anti-China, anti-AlQueda, anti-Korea, anti-Iran, and now anti-Israel, …. anti-CEOs, anti-autoIndustry, anti-Banking, anti-wasteful spending, … anti-Guantanamo, .. and the anti-list keeps on growing.

    Maybe it is time the USA took the lead for a change. For it is said that when you always follow, the view remains the same (and stinky).

    .

    Can it be that the old days when a leader (that is, Olmert) of some flea-bitten third world country, would order our GWB#43 – POTUS and esteemed leader of the free world – off the golf course to take fresh orders on what to say to the world at the UN are over?
    Wait and see.

  • piper1

    Ruh Roh, Question Hillary/ Hulagate is clearly feeling cornered- the word-vomit is being spewed at an alarming and increasing rate…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Damn Jews!

    What IS they doing, holding fair elections and freedom of speech?

    You’d think they thought they were some kind of representative government or something.

    Don’t they know that Jihad Joe Klein does not condone their election results?

    Next thing you know we’ll be electing somebody in the USA he doesn’t really like…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    cfukara
    … …

    Ahem.

    WE SPEND MORE MONEY EACH YEAR ON THE PLO AND THEIR EGYPTIAN PROTECTORS THAN WE DO OR EVER HAVE ISRAEL, DUMB ASS.

    Next!

  • 53_3

    “I hope they enjoy radioactive clean-up, because they will be volunteered!”
    .
    It’s the best place for them, Friar. I’m not all that enthusiastic about rapture as they are.
    .
    By the way, have you noticed the wind blowing here?
    .
    It’s odd, sort of like a cross between a very, very bad fart and one of those gusts of wind you feel before a thunderstorm…

  • deconstructionistsoup

    “…its founding was also a last gasp of western colonialism…”

    ???

    Not a freakin clue.

    What in the wide world of warts do you have against FREELY ELECTED STATES?”

    It’s very obvious that you, in fact, don’t have a clue. The founding of Israel was a political apology for the Holocaust, creating a Jewish state on top of land held by the Palestinian people, essentially using its imperial power to side with the Jews and cede them the land instead of the Arabs who lived there. THAT’s what started this whole process, so next time you get all indignant about Arabs wanting freedom and land and basic necessities, think about that fact.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Hillary gives Mrs. Arafat’s murdering off-sprung the big virtual MisState Dept circa 1993 hug, and Israel and her allies are supposed to ignore IS?

    I DON’T THINK SO.

  • Friar Tuck

    53_3
    .
    Either something very, very bad is about to happen or you live downwind of a paper-mill (used to work at one).
    .
    Or both. :)

  • 53_3

    Joe, I think if Bibi and Avigdor join forces, it will send absolutely the worst message possible to anyone trying a moderate approach to peace in the ME.
    .
    Such a regime in Israel will complete the polarization process* at a time when Hizb Allah and surrounding entities acquire increasingly sophisticated missile capabailities.
    .
    The Palestinians will have learned that there is only one choice left, and that is to fight. A one-state solution is not even remotely possible (if it ever was before!), and the two state solution will be dead.
    .
    Already, Turkey has turned away from Israel and Egypt, having already been accused of helping Israel maintain a stranglehold on Gaza, will find having anything to do with Israel impossible.
    .
    The only moderating force will be us, the US, and we can’t offer the Palestinians anything, and with the military paradigm changing, we may not be able to protect Isreal from it’s own worst follies.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    I wonder:

    If some imported punks in New Rochelle or Poughkeepsie starting lobbing Iranian and Red Chinese shells into Cheataqua outside Chelsea’s room, would Madame MisState Dept ask Gubner Peterbreathe to open Route 9W to the humanitarian truckers from Toronto and Teeterboro?

    Hillary should stick to flying in under enemy fire in Yugoslobia, and away from adult responsibility.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “…a moderate approach to peace in the ME…”

    Name three Arab or Christian PLO leaders in that divine group.

    Ones that will stake their careers, carpets, and lives on it, that IS.

    Take your Time.

    Less than 4 years until President Palin takes over.

  • gdimatteo

    Thank you Joe Klein, Tim McGirk, and other TIME staffers for standing up to Israel’s institutionalized policy of obliteration of the Palestinian people; America’s continued apologetics for Israel and its ‘self-defense’ must end, and a decades old policy of instituionalised racism in Israel must be resisted.

    Normal Americans would demand justice on this issue if NYT and other mainstream outlets had the courage to stand up to the mob of Zionist zombies.

    Please, write more on this issue. Where are the photo essays and audio essays? I wish TIME would go further to SHOW the world what happened in Gaza last month, and what has been going on for years. Let people SEE the madness and HEAR the stories of real people and their quality of life.

    I adimire you guys’ work, and I hope eveyrone else who does too will speak up and let you know.

  • 53_3

    *Oops, was going to comment on Jordan, but fergot.
    .
    Oh well. I’m guessing Jordan will do what it always does for the peace process, which is nothing. But I doubt very seriously that any self respecting Arab state will want to talk to such a government in Israel.
    .
    With Avigdor in the mix, look also for the distinct possibility of atrocities and crimes against humanity (not the little stuff) to be visited upon Israeli Arabs.

  • 53_3

    Friar:
    .
    I live about 4 miles from a sewage treatment plant, and I agree, something really bad might be in the offing.
    .
    However, this wind is blowing right here!
    .
    I just felt yet another rather smelly gust…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “…The founding of Israel was a political apology for the Holocaust…”

    A HOLOCAUST WHICH WAS SUPPORTED BY THE PALESTINIANS AND ARABS.

    Cry me a freakin river.

    News flash: Israel is a MULTI-ETHNIC, MULTI RELIGIOUS society — not a “racist Jewish state” or any such other lib loon BS.

    They’re more diverse, in culture and politics, than most of NEW ENGLAND and the PACIFIC NORTHWEST.

    If a tad less tolerant of LOONS in their midst.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “Thank you Joe Klein, Tim McGirk, and other TIME staffers for standing up to Israel’s institutionalized policy of obliteration of the Palestinian people…”

    Scrape a lib a little, and what do you find?

    Just your basic bigoted anti-Semitic jerk.

  • 53_3

    One thing I will say is that Joe has really stuck his neck out here. Look for the Wolfowiczes of the World to try to lop Joes head off over this one.
    .
    A suggestion, Joe:
    .
    I know that over at commentary they have made a career over pillorizing you, but I really think that you should stop the personal complaints about it.
    .
    It’s not out of lack of sympathy that I say that, but the reasoning is that eventually, it becomes more whine than wordsmithing. Obama should stop complaining about cable news too.
    .
    After all, there’s a reason why WaPo’s revenues dropped 77%…

  • 53_3

    “Less than 4 years until President Palin takes over.”
    .
    Nose open for that cock?

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Hitler enjoyed much the same kind of support as Obama: People that easily, breezily blamed all their ills on the Jews. The youth that rallied around Hitler during the 1930′s economic hardships, much like Obama’s today, were loud, proud, and repugnant, regurgitating the same litany of lies about the evil Jews that we’re witnessing here & now on this board — which is but a microcosm of the larger anti-Israeli mob that was a significant percentage of the Obama voting core in 2008.

    I believe the Obama cult makes a convincing argument, however — more mandatory moron chastity in the Blue states.

    Maybe they can transfer some of those African abortion hut funds he approved last month…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    One good thing about Hilary pulling some press, of course: It helps keep the meek liberal minds off the total economic meltdown that Obama has just guaranteed, through his 10 Year Plan of tax increases and government slacker make-work.

    He may as well have flushed it all down some Wall Street toilet.

  • stuartzechman

    Mostly well said, Joe Klein, except for this part:
    .
    …it’s about time that the U.S. starting calling Israel on its excesses.
    .
    I can see why you’d say that, since we’re about to hand Israel $2.4 Billion on a silver platter during a huge recession in the States:
    .

    SUMMARY: 2009 STATE AND FOREIGN OPERATIONS APPROPRIATIONS
    .
    CONSOLIDATED APPROPRIATIONS BILL
    .
    Middle East Security Assistance:
    .
    $2.4 billion for Israel (not including $170 million in emergency appropriations) fulfilling the 10-year Memorandum of Understanding between the United States and Israel, $1.5 billion in economic and security assistance for Egypt, and $498.5 million in economic and security assistance for Jordan.

    .
    But really, shouldn’t we not bother “calling out Israel” on anything, and just leave them to deal with their own problems?
    .
    Shouldn’t we just disentangle ourselves from that blood feud, first by not handing billions of dollars (we don’t have to spend) to Israel on the weapons that enable its “excesses” in the first place?
    .
    Why does this continue to be our fight, Joe Klein?

  • stuartzechman

    Sorry, that should read “for the weapons”…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Shouldn’t we just disentangle ourselves from that blood feud, first by not handing billions of dollars (we don’t have to spend) to Israel on the weapons that enable its “excesses” in the first place?

    Hey, there’s a good idea: Let the Israelis arm themselves with Russian and North Korean weapons.

    They’re not nearly as accurate or compact or clean, but this IS a world economic crisis, as Obama hizsef said on 10 Year Plan Tuesday.

    Yes, let’s pull back from the fray, and let the chips fall where they may.

    Maybe one will land on Cairo, or Ankara, or Andalusia.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    The rabid libs have convinced me, there’s no future in defending Israeli land from the Arab-PLO onslaught (sponsored by Iran and the DNC).

    I mean, who do those Jews think they are, always running around curing disease or composing music or solving math problems or winning World Series or creating wonderful food or writing funny scripts or going pro bono?

    We don’t need no stinkin Jews, eh 53?

  • stuartzechman

    Let the Israelis arm themselves with Russian and North Korean weapons.
    .
    Umm…
    .
    I’m not exactly saying that I’d prefer for Saudi nationals to fly jet fuel-laden commuter planes into Kim Jong Il’s twin palaces, but…

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate
  • bitterpill8

    Balance, indeed. Thanks Joe for some straight talk. Given our own financial problems perhaps we should review our aid to Israel. Maybe, if they know they cannot rely on a steady flow of US cash and arms they will look to a settlement. Old Mort Zuckerman is getting indignant and took a swipe at Hillary. In these tough times our Jewish brethren had better understand that our support for Israel is not “on auto pilot”.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “I’m not exactly saying that I’d prefer for Saudi nationals to fly jet fuel-laden commuter planes into Kim Jong Il’s twin palaces, but…”

    Not a clue what that means, but there’s nothing remotely funny about Hillary Clinton being an eager Global Gutter poli-sci beaver with Obama’s even more shrill appeaseniks nipping at her low heels.

    Israel has every reason to be fearful of that limp political weather vane.

    And I would suggest if she’s so G-D sure of herself, that she situate her fat ass along the Gaza border for a few weeks, to see if that changes her tune.

    I’m guessing a few nights of REAL air raid warnings would clear the cobwebs from her weak excuse for an intellect.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    In these tough times our Jewish brethren had better understand that our support for Israel is not “on auto pilot”.

    … … …

    But you’re cool with send billions in abortion clinic funding to the 3rd world?

    I guess that would make for fewer illegal Obama family members to feed.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Clinton’s a tool of whichever way the EU wind blows.

    Obama’s an outright terrorist sympathizer.

  • stuartzechman

    I’m not exactly saying that I’d prefer for Saudi nationals to fly jet fuel-laden commuter planes into Kim Jong Il’s twin palaces, but…
    .
    Not a clue what that means…
    .
    It means that if the Israelis can scratch up 2.4 billion dollars of their own money to buy weapons from Kim Jong Il, then so f*cking be it!
    .
    I don’t really enjoy putting our asses on the line every day for another country that has nothing to do with us, that doesn’t defend us, that does nothing except create problems for us –and take our money (that we don’t have to spend).
    .
    I care about AMERICA, QH.
    .
    Israel is not the United States of America.
    If they’d like to keep taking our money, then they should ask politely what we’d like them to do with it, or shut up.
    .
    I don’t see why we have to treat these people –fine people as they are– like they’re f*cking Connecticut. They’re not. They’re like Guatemala –a foreign country.
    .
    Why don’t you go review what Washington said about getting passionately involved in the affairs of other nations, QH?
    .

    …nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of nations, has been the victim.
    .
    So likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.
    .
    As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public councils. Such an attachment of a small or weak towards a great and powerful nation dooms the former to be the satellite of the latter.
    .
    Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government.

    .
    Do you think that George Washington was an idiot, QH?

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    And if Hillary does truly speak for Obama on Israel, then he should be IMPEACHED for breaking our solemn vow to defend out allie from the many enemies in the region — that daily plot against the Jews and their supporters.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    I don’t really enjoy putting our asses on the line every day for another country that has nothing to do with us, that doesn’t defend us, that does nothing except create problems for us –and take our money (that we don’t have to spend).

    So scrap NATO then?

    Get a GRIP: We’re going to defend the only freely elected, truly representative government in the region (before the newly freed Iraq, and perhaps Turkey).

    Washington was not an idiot — and he was also not in southern Israel last December.

    Thomas Jefferson was a complete scum bag, however.

    Ask anyone named Hemmings.

    [I think in the Clinton household that called it date rape, for lack of a better term for coerced rape.]

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Joe Klein
    .
    It seems to me that when talking about the withdrawal on Iraq people are forgetting one caveat. The Iraqi people get to vote again sometime this spring on whether to make all of our forces get the phuck out of Iraq by the end of this year. If they aren’t happy with President Obama leaving 50k troops in Iraq after next August they just might vote to make us haul ass now. I wonder who will be the first journo to bring this up.
    .
    I am willing to go along with Pres Obama’s plan but I am honestly not happy with leaving that many people there after next August. The truth is if we need 140k there now leaving 50k there to me would put them in quite a lot of danger and it would almost be asking for attacks to come.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    The liberal case for rank isolationism is made louder and more stridently when the economy suffers, but that does not make it any dumber of an idea.

    The left continues to repeat their own mistakes, from federal funding of non-essentials to the forced retreat of our troops and allies to the coddling of thug unions upon which they depend for most of their tenured statist support.

    The quick ease with which the Obamites including Clinton are willing to throw Iraq and Israel under the bus, for short term domestic political gain, and without having thought through any actual plan about the related problems, speaks much — but offers little hope or change for the media mutts that continue to caterwaul BUSH THIS or CHENEY THAT whenever Obama’s close to being called out for what he is: An UNQUALIFIED JOKE.

    In 4 years?

    Jimmy Carter will look like a national security bargain.

  • The3rdMan

    “Israel’s strangle-hold on the Gaza crossings gave Hamas a rationale for its rocketing of innocent Israeli civilians.”

    GAVE Hamas a rationale? You mean like a woman in a short skirt gave somebody a reason to rape her? And I didn’t know that Hamas needed any rationale – its just about taking over Israel and killing Jews.

    And sorry but Lieberman is not a bigot although the mainstream press will label him that so that people who are too lazy to actual read what he has to say will simply write him off. He’s a secularist and is trying a different approach in a crazy situation where a large part of Israel’s population identify with an enemy that wants to destroy it. They need to be ostracized and not him.

  • formerlyjames

    Colonialism, holocaust apologies, zionism, allies, right to defend, aid, etc., etc., etc. is all diversion from the forrest to the trees.
    .
    The immediate problem is the shameful and wanton decimation of a population the vast majority of whom are not terrorists but simple human beings who happen to have been born of a certain ethnicity in a certain part of the world. Everybody can discuss all they want the history, facts, figures, and nuances of Isreal, and it really does nothing.
    .
    What Isreal has done and continues to do in Gaza is an inhumane disgrace and should be stopped.

  • stuartzechman

    So scrap NATO then?
    .
    I guess it would depend on whether NATO membership is actually useful for the United States, wouldn’t it?
    .
    That’s the whole point of these relationships, QH. The point is that they must clearly serve AMERICAN interests.
    .
    If I had to ask questions about whether or not to reduce our involvement in NATO, I’d ask these:
    .

    Isn’t NATO, like, a holdover from when the then communist Soviet Union threatened the world with nuclear annihilation?
    .
    What exactly is the point of NATO, again?
    .
    In the absence of a Soviet-style existential threat, isn’t NATO somewhat of an anachronism?
    .
    Why shouldn’t France, for example, put its francs to work defending itself from…I don’t know, Holland or Belgium or something?

    .
    There’s nothing sacred or holy about NATO, QH.
    .
    Europe is not Connecticut, either.
    .
    That said, if participating in the NATO structure is good for Americans, then we should participate. Our government should be forced to make that case, however, and not rely on 60 year-old orthodoxies for their premises.
    .
    With respect to Israel, Europe, Mexico, Uzbekistan –whatever, the question is and should always be:

    On balance is the relationship as it currently exists in the interests of the citizens of the United States?”
    .
    How can you disagree with the first order of priority being the interests of your own country and people, QH?

  • 53_3

    I think there are two halves here in the comments:
    .
    One half that doesn’t think at all, and then the other half, which think, but don’t think far enough to the consequences of what might happen.
    .
    Giving Israel a free hand either by abandonment (sz’s suggestion), or the rw dittoheads (not reality-based, and hatred oriented), leaves options for Israel that will have immediate consequences to us.
    .
    For one, six months ago, gas was about $4.55 / gallon. If, unfettered(*1), the impact on gas prices will be much more savage(*2) than the last spike. What does one think that will do to the economy. It may even undo the current efforts to right it.
    .
    In addition, Isreal is no longer invincable. With the advent of cheap rocketry, the Arab states will simply pull back, lob rockets, and let Israel try to hold territory. Their armed forces are too small and they would be occupying areas where they are relentlessly hated. They don’t have peace now? Wait till they try that.
    .
    The consequences go far beyond that. Even though we have some real haters here, I’m hoping that no one really considers a WMD exchange a solution. Aside from the humanity of it, just how much oil will be safely shippable from a radioactive hell? Think about that and the fact that such a cutoff would be immediate.
    .
    (*1)Both Bibi and Avigdor (I’ve read what Avigdor has said over several years 3rdMan, and he is a racist, and at best a fascist), have made it clear they don’t care about the economy
    .
    (*2)The last spike started when Isreal began some serious sabre-rattling, see last years’ news articles

  • formerlyjames

    hula, quite to the contrary, the liberals have not ever taken over foreign policy. It has for over 60 years been a dominated by right wing thought. Bush and Cheney, again to the contrary, not only bought no security, but a valid argument is made that they exacerbated matters.
    .
    I ask you this. Does mass attack of defenseless, innocent populations by any government, right, left, or upside down, assure security? I think not.

  • 53_3

    “I think there are two halves here in the comments:”
    “One half that doesn’t think at all, and then the other half, which think, but don’t think far enough to the consequences of what might happen.”
    .
    I respectfully take that back. There are some reasonable individuals here!

  • syedh03

    congrajulations!! finally, some one has opened their eyes, thank you. there is hope after all. finally someone has the sense to point out the wrong doings of the israeli government. I’m sure you are going to get hundreds of comments blasting you for what you wrote. they are going to call u an anti-semite, a holocaust denier, and all the cute nicknames that come with someone who dares scold israel for its crimes. it seesm as if nowdays, criticizing israel is equivalent of being a holocaust deniuer and an anti semite.people make this out to be a jewish vs muslim issue, when that is not really the case. yes, israel was created based of a religious belief, and as a muslim myself i recognize it. its here now, perhaps the way it was created was wrong, but we have to recognie it as a state,where majority of the people are not evil unlike its government. muslims and arabs should recognize and learn to deal with and move on from what happened. at the same time israel cannot possibly continue to what it has been doing and expect to get away with it. they need to end the apatheid and also start thinking rationally about what is they are doing or else we will be seeing a world war 3. Mr. klien thank you for having the rationale and intelligence for writing the truth.

  • syedh03

    i noticed the comments by hulagate. i’m sure everyone else has too. u see the hostility, the outrage, the anger in that person’s post. JK, how dare you schold israel. don’t u realize it is hamas who is armed with WMD and it is hamas who bombs schools and UN hosptials. don’t u know it is hamas who every year seems to find a lame excuse to go and bomb and kill over a thousand people and accomplish nothing. don’t u know it is hamas who has blockaded izrael and not even allowing macaranoi and lentils because they can possibly me made into chemcial weapons. JK, its jewish voices like yours who can help end this conflict and bring peace to palestinains and israelis alike. lets ignore the bigots, racists and baby killers like hulagate, liberman, and netanyahu, bin laden, mullah omar. they are cancer in this world.

  • jcapan

    As for “habitual hatred or a habitual fondness,” I live in a nation that the US is habitually fond of–O’s first state visitor (the lamest of ducks, Aso), Hillary first stop, yes, Japan, ladies and gents. Now, other than Hello Kitty or Miyazaki Hayao, how many Americans are truly fond of Japan? And if they are more fond of the Japanese than say the Koreans or Algerians, why, exactly is that? Propaganda, anyone?
    ~
    Israel is the Japan of the Middle East (West Asia the more proper term)–it’s a large strategic fort in a region that we simply can’t quit. Likewise Japan is a geopolitical battleship in a region where we must contain both cold war threats (N. Korea), as well as that 21st century rival of rivals we’ve all been waiting for–China.
    ~
    Anyway, how else to explain this fondness about which I hear so much, or for that matter the antipathy towards failed states that pose us no harm whatsoever. Those residual forces O is leaving behind in Iraq, those “advisors,” terrible flashback to Vietnam, to “protect American interests,” anyone think about what those interests might be?

  • fhmadvocat

    hulagate, let me give you a history lesson . . . . . . .
    Do you know why Hamas flourishes in Gaza? You can thank the Israeli government for that. Hamas is a descent of the Muslim Brotherhood which has existed in Egypt for decades and became very small religious force in Gaza during Egyptian occupation. After the 1967 war, they were allowed to operate in Gaza while the secular PLO was banned. It is well known that the Israeli government secretly funded Islamic fundamentalist in the occupied territories for intelligence purposes and to undermine the PLO, which they perceived as a greater threat. Check it out, Shiek Yassin the founding father of Hamas operated a number of “charities” under Israeli occupation, while any organization affiliated with the PLO was illegal. The Islamic fundamentalists were non-violent until the first intifada. When they saw the PLO do suicide bombings, the Islamic fundamentalists took it up a notch. In addition, the Islamic fundamentalists were able to infiltrate the Israeli operatives within their ranks and weed them out.
    Now, Hamas is a real threat to Israel, while Fatah serves as a pliant government on the West Bank. In the case of Hamas, it is one Israeli experiment which literally has blown up in their faces.

  • fhmadvocat

    Thank you Joe.
    It is time for Israel to leave the 19th century and join the 21st century. Those who can not see colonialism are simply blind. How else do you justify settlements. Where else in the world do you see the colonization of the West Bank? Nowhere. Why does Israel think it can get away with it? Because it has rarely been challenged. The only President to challenge it while in office was the first George Bush. How sad that his son would ratify it by stating the “facts on the ground” can not be changed.
    Of course it was colonialism. Israel was established by Zionists from Europe. Even to this day, has there ever been a shepardic Prime Minister?
    It is even worse among Christian Zionists. I have never heard one of them, ever, ever talk about Palestinian Christians, as if such a thing does not exist. They defend the Israelis blindly, even if the victims of Christians. Look at Bethelham. It used to be 90% Christian, now it is only 33%. It is not just the Israelis, but Israel has made life so difficult, and it is the Palestinian Chrisitians who have the means to leave. Driving Christians from Palestine does not serve the Israelis, as Christians are not driven by religious fervor to drive the Jews into the sea, nor does it serve the Palestinians who need a bridge to the larger Christian community.

  • http://www.drasties.com/?p=6165 Drasties – Dutch on the World – World on the Dutch

    [...] has expanded their perspectives and altered their journalistic behavior for the better (see this post from Joe Klein today as just one of many examples; this admission of error from Jay Carney was also a classic [...]

  • http://paulashley.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/the-white-house-of-saud/ The White House of Saud « Paul Ashley

    [...] of the anti-Israel Chas Freeman to The National Intelligence Council is all over the blogs (here, here, and here) and editorialized on tonight in Investors Business Daily’s “Wrong Man for [...]

  • mahuffer

    I know its already there so we cant do anything about it but, I believe that Isreal should not have been created in the first place. We feel bad for the Holocaust so we set up a country for them? We did this with Liberia in Africa too, man I hope we dont ever lose a big war or just fall behind so much that someone decides to kick us out of entire regions of the U.S. and give it back to the Native Americans. Over the next eight years we should try to slowly remove ourselves from all the foreign medling.

  • cfukara

    hulagate Says:
    “We spend more money each year on the PLO and their Egyptian protectors ..”

    How does PLO and Egypt? Are you trying to put it into a perspective?

    And did anyone suggest that it is OK for the American taxpayer to spend $billions on PLO and Egypt? Would you be more at ease if the beleaguered American taxpayer stops the (forced) largess to the PLO, Egypt AND Israel?

    [Maybe not. Here is where you find more excuses and rationalizations to hoodwink those less-than-supreme clueles but hard-working, very hard-working gentiles in America.

    I am tempted to ask this ignoramus to support his assertions. And then I realize there is reason I skip his twaddle. Maybe I should ask him not to mention my ID so that my "Find" function is not tripped.

    JK:
    " ..For me, as a Jew, it is a cherished restitution of an ancient homeland .."
    Joe, it is unfortunate that you still parade around under the "free and fair" media banner. Perhaps you should recuse yourself from TIME and join Rahm Emmanuel's father who is suspected of palling around with terrorists in Israel.

    To what extent do you, or should we, expect the Iranian-Americans to go all out for their "cherished homeland"? Shouldn't we expect that USA is now their "cherished homeland"? How about the Russian-Americans? Would we accuse then of divided loyalties if they constantly trashed, or viciously sought to pre-empt or direct, our foreign policy and our POTUS with regard to our interaction with foreign nations? What is our yardstick with regard to the patriotism of Iraqi-Americans? And Korean-Americans?

    Beyond what point do we suspect one of harboring unpatriotic or un-American predilections? [When "suspicion becomes a mushroom cloud"?]

  • 53_3

    “…but the U.S. has the responsibility to call Israel out when its behavior turns destructive and immoral.”
    .
    This is pretty late, your blog is almost dead, but I would like to make the final point that the US may be forced to take extreme action (nonmilitary) in order to keep Israel from blowing the lid off problems we just don’t need right now?
    .
    Why don’t I include Iran in all of this?
    .
    It’s because I don’t think, regardless of the bluster, that they would be stupid enough to attack a country with 200 nuclear weapons and the capability to deliver them. I think it’s a very safe bet given the several confrontations between two other nuclear armed and relentless antagonists – India and Pakistan.

  • http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/joe-klein-on-obamas-israel-stance/ Joe Klein on Obama’s Israel stance « Later On

    [...] in Democrats, Government, Mideast Conflict, Obama administration at 11:09 am by LeisureGuy Interesting read: Over the past few weeks, the Obama Administration has been engaged in truly shocking behavior. It [...]

blog comments powered by Disqus