In the Arena

Stiff ‘Em

Huffpost reports that the House GOP members, who had so many wonderful things to say about the stimulus package was wending through the Congress, are now trying to take advantage of it. Politics 101 dictates the following: They should pay the price for their latter-day Hooverism. As little money as humanly, legally possible should go to their districts. (Add: Since most of the money in the bill is guaranteed to those who are hurting–i.e. people who are unemployed–regardless of location, the pain would be marginal. Eric Cantor shouldn’t expect a wind farm in his district.)

I’ve just spent a few weeks outside the country and, when you take a step away from the media maelstrom, the overwhelming impression is the sheer volume and severity of the problems that the country and the world–and our new President–are facing right now. This is a global crisis. A great many people are being hurt badly. There is a real chance that it will get much, much worse, especially if the banking system does not hold. All of us, including Republicans who oppose the Administration’s policies, should hope that the Obamajobs flowing from the stimulus package and the Obamaloans–to 9 million homeowning families, announced today (and applied judiciously, one hopes)–have the desired effect. Let’s also hope that the important, long-range programs that are more necessary than ever now–a universal health insurance program, an alternative energy economy–get the hearing they deserve in the months to come. 

But we should also take careful note of those who have opposed these programs–especially those who have done so for cynical, political reasons (as opposed to those, like Rep. Mike Pence of Indiana, who are merely philosophically deluded). Their braying, and playing of Aerosmith songs, seems inappropriate, tone-deaf and puerile, at a moment of real pain and fear. Those in the media who egg them on, or give them inordinate attention, are no better.

Update: It seems some Republican governors are weighing whether or not to accept their share of the money. Reading between the lines, it seems they’re most opposed to what Sarah Palin calls “social programs.” That is, programs like Medicaid that are intended to help the poor. I’m not sure they can do that. But there should be a rule–if you don’t accept the “social programs” you can’t build the next bridge to nowhere. (As for Medicaid, it is a very inefficient program that should be rectified by including the poor in a national health insurance system.)

Related Topics: Uncategorized
  • Latest on Swampland

    Ben Garvin / For the Washington Post / Getty Images

    The Beginning of the End for No Child Left Behind

    President Obama granted 10 states relief from the strictest requirements of No Child Left Behind on Thursday, in a move he said combines “greater freedom with greater responsibility.” That freedom is provided in the form of a waiver that releases the states from having to meet targets education officials have long complained are too rigid and impossible to meet, including one key provision that required all students at public schools to be proficient in math and reading by 2014.

    Romney: 'I Misspoke'HuffPost Politics

    Morning Must Reads: Accommodation

  • fourlegsgood

    Joe, while I agree with you in principle, I’d hate for my district to suffer just because we’re saddled with an *sshat like Michael McCaul. Because of Delay’s redistricting, we poor souls in Austin, TX were split up and dumped in neighboring republican districts.
    .
    We didn’t vote for him, we don’t support him and he doesn’t support us. In fact, during the last congressional campaign, he didn’t even campaign in Austin.
    .
    I don’t think the people of this district should be penalized. That said, our district isn’t hurting nearly as bad as many other places in the US and they should get more help anyway.
    .
    Just always good to remember that decent people are marooned in some of those red districts in spite of ourselves.

  • http://twitter.com/pourmecoffee pourmecoffee

    “s little money as humanly, legally possible should go to their districts.”

    IDIOTIC. The money should go where needed and most useful without any regard for the vote of who represents the locality. There are other ways consequences can flow to the Republicans besides this kind of vindictive insertion of revenge fantasies into matters of economic life and death. Get a moral compass and use it.

  • fourlegsgood

    Oh, and Eric Cantor can bite me. What an immature jerk.

  • http://twitter.com/pourmecoffee pourmecoffee

    Seriously, what is wrong with you? These are real people in crisis not some pieces on a chessboard in a fantasy game. You are sick.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    All you are going to see are Republicans running as fast as they can, with bags of money, shouting insults at the “commie” who gave it to them.
    .

  • textee

    The clueless socialist and thoroughly unqualified community organizer not only has Field Marshall Joe Klein extolling his august military expertise, but now he has Field Marshall Klein saluting his fundamentalist redistributionist-inspired “Obamajobs”.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    As to the points raised by pourmecoffee and fourlegsgood, another way, beyond stiffing their districts, that the GOP might be held accountable would be if pundits abandoned “consensus” or “centrism” or “bipartisanship” as moral lodestars, substituting an evaluation of the soundness of a party’s proposals.
    -
    (Ie, write about the irrelevant, flailing, hopelessly extreme, inappropriate, tone-deaf, and puerile national GOP, in Time magazine, over and over again. GOP governors are not as insane, btw).

  • bitterpill8

    Joe: my initial reaction was: put the boot in. But, on reflection, I want the money to go wherever it will do good. I want our citizens to get help they need no matter their political affiliation. I read that Jindal is thinking about refusing help. Well: I will wait and see. The people of Tenn. are Americans: if they can be helped, let’s see that they get some.

  • stuartzechman

    All of us…should hope that…the Obamaloans–to 9 million homeowning families, announced today–have the desired effect.
    .
    Joe Klein:
    .
    Yes, we should all hope that the Obama housing plan has the desired effect. And while I take your point that many Republicans do not hope for the success of this plan, I’m confused as to the source of your numbers:


    * Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2009

    Will lenders go along with Obama’s housing plan?
    .

    By Kevin G. Hall | McClatchy Newspapers
    .
    The Homeowner Stability Initiative, which Obama unveiled in Phoenix, seeks to address one of the triggers of the global financial crisis: the 2.3 million U.S. foreclosures last year that are protracting the housing crisis and helping to drive down home prices across the nation.
    .
    Specifically, the Obama plan seeks to provide low-cost refinancing for as many as 5 million Americans. It seeks to help delinquent or at-risk borrowers get their mortgages modified so that no more than 31 percent of their income is tied up in their mortgages. And it provides financial incentives to lenders and even a new insurance program to promote more mortgage modifications.
    .
    Like the failed efforts under the Bush administration, however, the Obama plan doesn’t compel banks and other lenders to modify troubled mortgages. Instead, it provides a menu of incentives that may or may not prove sufficient.

    .
    , and I believe that “hope” is the operative word, since Obama’s plan fails to actually mandate that banks modify their mortgages to fit economic reality (instead of financial institutions continuing to foreclose as usual). I guess we’ll be hoping for a lot of (as yet un-demonstrated) wisdom on the part of banks, as we see in the coming weeks and months whether or not they decide to respond as the Obama Administration hopes the banks will to a “menu of incentives”.
    .
    From what source did you arrive at almost twice the number cited by McClatchey, Joe Klein?
    .
    Where did the number “9 million homeowning families” come from?

  • hellslittlestangel

    A dumb idea, but understandable. (Me, I wish we could tell the Confederate States that we’ve had a change of heart about that secession thing.)
    But Obama might take a play from Bush’s book and make sure that his name and the Democratic party’s seal are all over aid to the states, although in a less tacky manner than Bush did (those $600 tax rebates that were presented as if they were a personal gift from CuckooBananas).

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    I would settle for some intellectual honesty in this debate. Right now the Republicans are doing their typical double speak crap and the msm still allow them to open their mouths and contribute.
    .
    When we were focused on stimulus the GOP said that without doing something about housing the stimulus plan was pointless. Now that he is unveiling a housing plan the latest talking point is that the banks wont go for this… They wont loan if bankruptcy courts can reduce principal blah blah blah. Oh did I mention that Jamie Diamond just came out and said he thought the plan was a good one?

    “Feb. 18 (Bloomberg) — JPMorgan Chase & Co. Chief Executive Officer Jamie Dimon said the government’s new housing plan was “comprehensive” and would help the bank modify more loans.

    “The plan is good and strong, comprehensive and thoughtful,” Dimon, 52, said in an interview today. “I think it will be successful in modifying mortgages in a way that’s good for homeowners.”

  • Cliff

    What, are you trying to fill up your Idiocy Quota for the day?
    .
    So just because Arizona has McCain and Kyl, all of my teacher friends should eat sh!t and die for some sort of retribution that makes you pundits happy?
    .
    It may be hard to realize, but it’s actual people who are suffering out here. It’s not the dumb sh!t Senators who would feel it, it’s all us Little People.
    .
    Do you not think that their votes will be held against them in the next election? Do you not think that an effective campaign can be organized to attribute the stimulus benefits to the Democrats?
    .
    Go to hell, pundit scum.

  • lamh31

    Jindal’s governor of Louisiana. I know the people of the district deserve the money even if their Rep didn’t vote for it, but damnit. Their should be consequences to the Congressional GOP’s grandstanding in regards to this stimulus bill. It pisses me off to no end that these same rep/sen who didn’t give 2 shitake mushrooms about their districts when they voted no (yes, I’m talking to you Rep Cao of New Orleans), will still be given the benefit of the doubt which they do not deserve.

    Myself personally, I have decided to make it my mission to make sure that my friends/family/neighboors in New Orleans and beyond know that they are getting this assistance despite of… not because of their elected officials.

    And if Jindal refuses the money, I’m sorry, but even as a New Orleans native, I hope there are devastating consequences. It seems like the only way elected officials actually do things without political cover is when there are no other options.

  • lamh31

    Sorry, but I don’t think that these votes will matter in the next election, particulary if the economy improves because Americans tend to have short attention spans when things are good. Now if things go south, because as a good number of economist say the stimulus bill is not large enough, of course the American people will blame Obama, not the Republicans who helped to water down the bill and then decided to vote against it.

  • Paul-no not that one

    There are ways to exact a political price, which I guess is what JK is driving towards, short of screwing people for the “feel good” of it.
    Elections come to mind.

  • Friar Tuck

    Wow, Joe! textee and Cliff both think you suck!

  • ivb3016

    My evil twin would love to see the politicians stiffed, but the real me doesn’t want the people to suffer, so I guess there should be another way. This is where the media could really do an important thing by highlighting all the help that real people are getting in the districts or states of these dodos.
    .
    This morning NPR interviewed two Republicans one of whom voted for Obama and one who didn’t. Both thought he was doing well, they supported him, and hoped for the best. Far from the usual Repub interviews. More of this kind of thing please.

  • Paul-no not that one

    SZ looks like the NYT, using the White House numbers, agrees with McClatchey.
    .
    In fact, the number of homeowners that the White House estimates will be helped by the refinancing part of the plan — between four and five million — includes many who are not now underwater.
    .
    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/obamas-housing-plan-who-will-benefit/

  • http://twitter.com/pourmecoffee pourmecoffee

    Even with the change Joe made to the post, it’s still wrong. The decision about expenditures should be made on the merits. That’s the change for which I voted.

  • Cliff

    FT – that’s how Klein knows he’s doing a good job, when he manages to piss off a liberal and a conservative at the same time.

  • Paul-no not that one

    What is it about domestic policy that makes JK so simple minded?
    I learn from his Mid East writings but almost never from anything else he produces.

  • cincinnatus est exterminata!

    Well, I guess your desire to punish some people for being ignorant enough to elect the likes of Rick Perry outweighs your admission about the pathological Beltway provincialism of your peers among the commenters. I understand where you’re coming from, I’d like to make this country into a donut shape myself, then again, I’m one of those liberals who live in a liberal enclave of a red state, so I get the anger. If there was a way to punish the ignorant white trash of this country without hurting everyone, I’d sign on, but there isn’t.

  • http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/ joyomama

    No wind farm for Cantor? Then why is he being such a blow hard? tsk tsk, such a waste…

  • Cliff

    Wait, what am I thinking? Of course Klein doesn’t care about teachers, he thinks the solution to inner city education is to stop paying them so much.
    .
    But seriously, how stupid do you have to be not to realize that needed infrastructure like highways go across red states? Or that red states like Oklahoma and Arizona are great places for wind and solar power?
    How can you not understand that, as a nation, we function as a network, and a blighted region in Arkansas can affect the rest of us? Look at how the devastation of the South in the Civil War still plagues us.

  • rose83

    Huffpost reports that the House GOP members, who had so many wonderful things to say about the stimulus package was wending through the Congress, are now trying to take advantage of it. Politics 101 dictates the following: They should pay the price for their latter-day Hooverism. As little money as humanly, legally possible should go to their districts. (Add: Since most of the money in the bill is guaranteed to those who are hurting–i.e. people who are unemployed–regardless of location, the pain would be marginal. Eric Cantor shouldn’t expect a wind farm in his district.)
    .
    Joe, We all say silly things. We all make mistakes. A simple apology is all that’s needed. But it really is needed.

  • Art Pepper

    If this was meant as a serious suggestion, it was “not helpful,” as our new Secretary of State might put it. But the impulse is understandable.
    .
    I have the same impulse reading about the California GOP. Why do the Dems have to do the serious work of putting a budget together, and the GOP gets to stamp their feet and hold their breath. But I don’t live in CA, so it’s easy to say the Dems should call their bluff and wreck the economy in the process.
    .
    But I’m not sure the voters are as stupid the GOP thinks.

  • Art Pepper

    s/b “as stupid as the …”
    .
    Even with preview I can’t type.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Jihad Joe thinks money grows on Republicans, for the benefit of slackers?

    = CLIXONS ACCOMPLISHED =

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    President Skippy has placed at least 10 YEARS of tax increases on the middle class, with his plan to bail out the Clinton-Rubin banking cadres — but Joe thinks it IS just another GOP plot?

    = ANONYMOUSE ACCOMPLISHED =

  • Cliff

    Oh, and here’s another thing: Klein doesn’t think we should investigate top officials for war crimes.
    .
    So, investigating the top segment of society for the most serious crimes you can think of is out.
    .
    But punishing the bottom segments of society for the actions of their elected officials is fine.

  • ottoman88

    Eric Cantor shouldn’t expect a wind farm in his district.
    .
    If that blowhard would sit himself in front of a wind farm, we could be energy independent tomorrow.

  • yoshiattack

    Mr. Klein, your writings grow more delusional by the day. For the last few months, all I’ve heard about In the Arena are fantasies about waterboarding Donald Rumsfeld, giddy attacks on the losing party ill-fitting somebody of your age, and now this latest petty opportunism of yours.
    .
    Please. You’re worse than the people who wrote this whale of a “stimulus” bill.

  • ottoman88

    the GOP might be held accountable would be if pundits abandoned “consensus” or “centrism” or “bipartisanship” as moral lodestars, substituting an evaluation of the soundness of a party’s proposals.
    .
    Amen to that.
    .
    The rest of the country doesn’t care about the D.C. cocktail party circuit, and whether the Congress is playing nice by the Marquis of Broderberry rules. Could someone tell that to this site’s resident dumb@ss, Michael Scherer?

  • dunedweller

    I think we should give more stimulus $$ to districts with republicans that opposed it. Then when things turn around and start to look brighter we can say… you’re welcome!
    .
    Cantor is a malin (male + Palin = malin)

  • sacredh

    I have no idea how many democrats vs. republicans are losing their homes, but people drowning remember WHO threw them the life-ring. Being able to keep your home because a specific party took action to keep a roof over your head isn’t something you’d forget. Let the republicans keep up their obstructions, we’re 20 months away from another election.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Klein’s still pizzed that President Frozone hasn’t gotten back to him on the job application to lead the newest Department of Fiction Department.

    Holbrooke looks secure then, at least through the end of the month.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    BILLARY CLIXON and BOON RUBIN still off the Jihad Joe gaydar?

    BUTT of course.

  • textee

    Exhibit No. 1,000,000,000,000,000,001 that Joe Klein is a clueless loon: “I didn’t even know Jay [Carney] was a Democrat,” Time’s Joe Klein said to Michael Calderone at Politico.com.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Klein thinks bad Congressional math started with Bush.

    No wonder CBS, Time, and and the rest of the media dregs can’t make ends Meet Up (outside the privacy of their communal spas anyway).

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    The real story?

    Obama’s off and running for more loose change in 2012, given his penchant for visiting the flipper states in the last month.

  • formerlyjames

    Nobody knows what will work or not. The most cogent point Klein makes is that this is worse than the worst nightmare, and it is likely to get even worse while politicians sit on their fat privileged asses talking socialism versus capitalism (tax cuts).
    .
    fourlegsgood, I think we must be neighbors in the southwest corner of Williamson Co. which voted for Obama. Our Bush puppet gov. Perry was on the front lines turning down these socialists monies. Texas isn’t suffering like other state. Yet. Watch him sing a different tune as the waves of economic depression hit here.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    We are in a 2-3 years down cycle minimum, maybe up to 5 years.

    The CRIME here is that those that screwed up are being bailed out by those that didn’t.

    And we have the leading light one at the DOJ now invoking his version of White History Month to help rubin it in?

    We’re not a country.

    We’re a CULT.

  • formerlyjames

    hula, another post I agree with. Keep it up. But, we are a country. The cult lasted 8 years. It was called the Bush administration.

  • 53_3

    Actually hulu, if you don’t like Black History month, then move to Iceland, or some other country where Black representation is not very high.
    .
    As far as I’m concerned, here is some “trickle down” more to your liking!
    http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/18/news/companies/ubs/index.htm?postversion=2009021818
    .
    And the only “culr” nowadays, hulu, is the one you’re a part of!
    .
    The GOP…

  • 53_3

    And as far as bailouts, this one is more along the lines of the GOP flogging it’s own meat, hulu.
    .
    I don’t need to remind you that that cult that formerlyjames just pointed out handed out 7,200,000,000,000 dollars before they got run out of town.
    .
    Dumber than a red leather coated dominatrix from Alaska, I always say…

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Those in the media who egg them on, or give them inordinate attention, are no better.
    .
    Ah. Another Politico reference.

  • 53_3

    And, I gotta say, hulu, that Holders’ version of America is one damned sight better than that hokey “Southern Strategy” crap you guys finally tripped over.
    .
    It was more than enjoyable to watch my Black American neighbors, my wife, and many, many others besides, beat pots and pans in celebration of your peers’ demise.
    .
    They kicked your ass…

  • sacredh

    I try not to feed the trolls, but they’re far better recruiters for the democratic party than I ever was going door to door. If we can ever figure out a way to get them to work as “get out the vote” volunteers for the republicans, maybe we can kill the republican party once and for all.

  • 53_3

    Back to the real world…
    .
    I agree, Joe, on your perception of these Hooverite naysayers. There’s no question of just hoe many governors will turn down Obama’s “socialist” offerings.
    .
    I pay taxes, and I don’t mind one bit that some of my money is going toward this effort.
    .
    But in modern days, “Hoover” can have two meanings:
    .
    One who keeps one thumb up anal orafice while chiding others over their efforts, or,
    .
    One who vacuums up everything in sight, without regard to the consequences, such as what happened bofore Bush left office.
    .
    I’ll leave it to others to decide which “Hoover” these “New Republicans” are!

  • 53_3

    sacredh:
    .
    I wholeheartedly agree, but I’ve kicked hulu’s ass any number of times in the past regarding Civil Rights and Black Americans and if he wants to tangle with me again and lose in front of everyone, I’ll be all for it!
    .
    It is so much more meaningful when one has a real target to shoot at…

  • sacredh

    53_3: I agree and understand the motivation, but it’s like arguing with people with no short term memory. You can win over and over again, but they never really learn or are even able to accept the fact that they just got their asses handed to them on a plate. They really are either just doing it for kicks or they’re so convinced that they’re right that they’ll never change their attitudes. I hope for the former but fear it’s the latter.

  • formerlyjames

    53 and sacredh, it’s live and learn. I hope.

  • sacredh

    formerlyjames: I’m also an optimist and hate the idea of giving up on people, but sometimes you realize that it just doesn’t do any good to make a logical argument to someone who isn’t receptive to logic. Maybe the best we can hope for is to persuade others who are on the fence and are looking for the right reasoning to make their choices. Other times you come to the conclusion that nothing you say is going to make the least bit of difference. I’ve worked for several campaigns working the phones and one thing I learned was that it was better to convince people than to get into arguments with them. If they got belligerent and started to lose it, I thanked them for their time and moved onto the next number on my list.

  • mmchampion

    O/T, sgwhiteinfla, thank you for the response you left last night. Unfortunately, I’m in Miss Manners mode but I really do appreciate the information you bring to the table.
    .
    and Hula, no stimulus (or cookies for you.) I know you don’t need it but many others desperately do. And btw, Holder is the FIRST racist to be attorney general? Seriously? John Mitchell anyone? How many others? Holder has done exactly what all white racists demand they do – he lifted himself above his circumstances. and he did it without your help. If he wants to speak openly then he’s earned that right.
    .
    and JK, I’m guessing this was a gut reaction on your part after seeing the crappy crap that came from the R’s in Congress, I was pretty bitter too but thankfully our Pres has shown he’s above such childish things.
    .
    I also remember how angry most folks were that Obama didn’t go after Lieberman; that chicken came home to roost in a very helpful way (without his help it doesn’t seem the stimulus would’ve passed by now or perhaps not at all.) I would have been tarring and feathering him so it’s a relief we have a grown-up in the White House.

  • sacredh

    mmchampion: I wanted Lieberman’s head on a stick too. I’m also glad that someone with better instincts was calling the shots. I’m personally doing well financially and have a secure job, but I know many who aren’t. It’s the bleeding heart liberal in me (snark) that wouldn’t mind if my taxes got raised or some of my tax money winds up where it shouldn’t. I’m convinced that enough of it will go to help those who truly need it. I’d love to have my taxes cut so much that I could buy a new truck, but if that means that someone less fortunate is going to lose their home because the government can’t help them, I’d rather drive the one I have until it falls apart. Of course my dark side wants to see the wealthy get screwed like they screwed us. I’m not a saint after all.

  • 53_3

    “I agree and understand the motivation, but it’s like arguing with people with no short term memory. You can win over and over again, but they never really learn or are even able to accept the fact that they just got their asses handed to them on a plate.”
    .
    I can’t really argue with this. Not a bit, and exactly MOT*.
    .
    *Submariners’ slang for “Middle of Target”

  • 53_3

    sacredh, mmchampion:
    .
    I’m not quite so lucky as to have a ‘secure job’ and I’m not sure what one of those is, but I did my civic duty and with some of my refund I went and stimulated the economy by taking my car in for a long postponed tuneup.
    .
    Now, Bush said “Keep on Shopping[sic]” but Obama has at least put in a perspective that I can better understand.
    .
    However, the fact that the dollar is severly overleveraged led me to buy silver with some of the proceedings, too.

  • wvng

    Olberman had a spectacular segment on Bachmann tonight, in which Chris Hayes says the republican caucus in the House is the ‘demi-glace of wingnuttia.” ROTFLMAO
    .
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/29268727#29268727
    .
    This is simply one of the funniest pieces Keith has ever done.

  • mmchampion

    sacredh, me too. I remember when Obama had his hand on Lieberman’s shoulder in the Senate chambers (way back when) because I knew I would’ve had my knee in an inappropriate location. Thank goodness Obama showed decency and an ability to think ahead. Allowing Joe to keep his pride saved how many families?
    .
    My boss’s father-in-law is a general contractor and is currently trying to bid on a job at our lab. He is a true red R and can’t stand Obama, but because of the economy he can’t retire. His wife keeps asking if he’s heard anything about the “Obama job” he wants to bid on…

  • sacredh

    If I was religious, I’d say my life was blessed. I’ve had exactly one job in my life. The time until I can retire without penalty can be measured in months. I work for Uncle Sam and have rental properties that thankfully have stable renters. I haven’t raised their rent in 10 years. They don’t want to leave and I’ve told them I won’t raise their rent if they stay. I also recently won a pretty large pile of cash in the lottery. I might have the assets to be a republican, but my mom is still alive and would kill me if I even joked about it. She was raised in an area where segregation was common and accepted. She’s in her 80′s and had a glass of champagne with me when Obama got elected.

  • mmchampion

    sacredh, what a lovely story. I love your mom without even knowing her.
    .
    I was raised by a southern mom (MS slaveholders in the past) and a yankee father (racist by choice – although he did like Lena Horne.) They’ve been gone many years but I wonder if they would ever have had the wisdom to see beyond…
    .
    I’m sure I would be a disappointment to them but my heart bleeds just fine. We’re lucky (from someone who was on welfare because of college and small kids) and our taxes will rise in the near future. If just some of it goes to people (who have known hunger and clothes shopping at Goodwill like my kids and I did) and it makes their schools better and their rent easier to pay then so be it. Part of living in a democracy.

  • mmchampion

    ruh roh, meant living in a ‘republic democracy.’ Mom would really be ticked at that distinction.

  • gysgt213

    Maybe I am just completely the f**king stupid, but is Joe actually advocating as a punishment the withholding of money from people who might really need it to punish the people he and his co-workers in the media let get away with not voting for in the first place with obviously made up bull hockey? Is this what I’m f**king reading? You have got to be kidding me? Joe-The reason why the republican voted no on the bill and are now taking credit for it is BECAUSE YOU ASSES IN THE MEDIA CONSTANTLY LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS TYPE OF CONDUCT. I don’t blame them.

  • mmchampion

    sacredh, before I sign off to watch movies and drink more wine, thank you on behalf of your renters. I’m sure they’ve blessed you a thousand times over but what you’ve done for them must make your mom proud (and she sounds very wonderful.)

  • sacredh

    mmchampion: My mom is something else. I came from a fairly large family and was the last child. Luckily my brothers and sisters burnt them out so bad that as long as I didn’t kill anyone they were pretty happy. I got brought home naked one night in a police cruiser and the only thing she said was that I had better not make a habit out of it. She didn’t even mention it at breakfast the next morning but her stare could have cut a diamond.

  • mmchampion

    Okay, quck before “Roman Holiday” starts and I really do sign off – you got tagged by the dreaded ‘mom look.’ My oldest son got it once (actually he got it lots of times) and his younger brother grabbed his arm and dragged him away and said “you need to get away from her RIGHT NOW.”
    .
    And that’s why Hillary Clinton will make such a good SoS, she’s got it down. Those hardcore dictators are going to be scared to death.

  • gcinwi

    One of the things that Republican officeholders will regret during the next election is that in opposing the stimulus bill they all (except Specter, Collins, and Snowe) voted against the largest tax cut in the history of our country.

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Even by the standards of Joe Klein, this is one of the most obviously imbecilic suggestions to be made in American political commentary over the last decade. It’s so cretinous, it’s worthy of a prominent place in the Dubya Hall of Fame. What Klein advocates is precisely what the Republicans want, a policy that gives them a chance to say, credibly:

    1) The stimulus didn’t work in their district
    2) Democrats are hyper-partisan
    3) Obama is corruptly repaying supporters

    Joe Klein, do the decent thing and use the pearl-handled revolver that real Democrats left for you in the doghouse.

  • sacredh

    I know it’s early, but I’m already looking forward to 2010. I’ve always felt that we need two viable parties to balance things out, but now I’m convinced that the republicans aren’t the alternative we need. They seem hell bent on destroying themselves and that leaves the independents as party number two. I’m old enough to remember when the republicans pretty much consisted of educated business oriented people and those that wanted the government to stay out of their private lives. Now they run people who seem to appeal to the lowest common denominator. The dumber the better may appeal to people who need to feel superior, but when your candidates wouldn’t be considered progressive in the 19th century, you need to reboot.

  • vwcat

    Excellent idea, Joe. I live in a district where my woodenheaded idiot congressman is one of the lockstep robotrons that do whatever the leadership tells him to.
    In my district we have 12 percent unemployment and the local Chrysler plant just closed.
    The idiot Manzullo is on the banking committee and will do whatever is good for his party rather then us or the country.
    I would love to see these funds held up for awhile so people like Manzullo can see the damage their childish games do. And I want them to see what happens when they chose to be brats and then have to explain it back home.
    I also want it so they cannot play these idiot games and throw their tantrums before the cameras and then have the gall to brag about how they got money for us from the stimulus.
    I want them to feel the consequences of their actions and for the voters to know what happens when they vote incumbent when that incumbent is bad for the district.
    Hold the funds up for a while to show these republican party before country lock steppers for who they really are.

  • Cliff

    I’m glad gunny and basilbrush have got my back on the “this is a stupid damn idea” thing.
    .
    Joe Klein, I’m pretty sure God hates you for posting this.

  • imillerand

    Mr. Klein, it seems you have been in a number of ways changed by your experiences over the last year or so, and changed by your recent experiences abroad. Lately I’ve noticed that you are very cognizant of the genuine, immediate and sharp suffering that people over the world are undergoing. Me too. It seems that every day I see more and more evidence of a profound alteration of so many lives.

    Viewed through this prism, it seems incomprehensible that lawmakers, upon whom constituents depend to be a voice, will vote for the particularly noxious “more of the same” that hurts them, and these lawmakers somehow manage to convince their constituents that ever diminishing expectations and realizations are “patriotic,” in some way.

    Yet now that the stimulus bill has passed, they’re willing to grab every bit of the cash and credit they can get. Except for those who are so focused on the gossamer of the political gain of “no,” that they’d actually sacrifice their fellow citizens to make a point(to Bobby Jindal — huh??).

    What will it take until people realize that this rigid ideological posturing will never keep a family at home, never put the food on their table or create the stable job that will ensure they will survive?

    Please keep writing. Your voice is important. And, thank you.

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Cliff, after reading this post by the village idiot formerly known as Joe “Dances with Republicans” Klein, I feel inclined to go down on my knees and thank a God that I doubt exists for one simple fact: the Obama administration is much too smart to allow Joe Klein anywhere near a position of influence. This is an idea that would be considered deranged even at Daily Kos, and that’s an achievement. The fruit of this abominable scheme would be huge publicity for Republicans along the lines of “Obama declares war on conservative America”. “The Porkbarrel Jihad – why Democrats get pork and Americans get shafted” “Vindictive Messiah – Obama and the politics of payback” etc etc. I can’t imagine what sort of addled mind would even contemplate this exercise in lunacy for more than a milli-second.

  • viciousmaniac

    Didn’t Rethuglicans themselves try this sort of tactic during the Bush years? Threaten and and punish by withholding federal money in the name of payback, like Berkeley, or even our universities? Do two wrongs make a right?
    .
    Joe, the blog version of you I think at times tries too hard to be Kos-ian and it comes off as rather awkward and ill-thought.

  • plukasiak

    I gotta go with JK on this one.
    _
    One of the reasons for GOP opposition to the bailout and mortgage plan is that it opposition is win-win for them. If things do improve, no one will remember that their GOP reps voted against the bill. If they don’t improve, the GOP has an election issue.
    _
    The only way to change this dynamic is to penalize those who keep returning these jokers to office — and one way to do that is to focus recovery efforts in those states and districts whose congresscritters supported the programs.
    _
    Its not as if the money would be “wasted” if more was sent to some areas than others — the need for additional aid in state and local governments far exceeds the money appropriated by Congress. By concentrating the efforts in some areas and not others, those areas which get more money will not suffer as much as if the money were parcelled out equallly.
    _
    Once people understand that there are costs associated with sending GOP obstructionists to Congress, one of two things will happen — either the GOP will change its tune, or fewer and fewer Republicans will be elected until the GOP is forced to change its tune.

  • joebidensteeth

    Wouldn’t it make more sense to pump money into those districts (assuming the desired effect takes place)? So the Repubs who voted against would then have to defend their votes come 2010?

  • plukasiak

    Wouldn’t it make more sense to pump money into those districts (assuming the desired effect takes place)? So the Repubs who voted against would then have to defend their votes come 2010?
    _
    absolutely not. The only time that incumbents are thrown out of office (other than scandals) is when times are bad — politicians aren’t held accountable for their mistakes. And any attempt to criticize the GOP for their “no” votes can be easily answered with standard GOP demagoguery (e.g. “the program cost too much, and was wasteful, and it was the tax cuts that made it work, and if there had been more tax cuts and less wasteful spending, I would have voted for it, blah, blah, blah…”)

  • Paul-no not that one

    Another reason that “punishing” the red districts is not very smart is that the republican districts left are so republican that you will have a hard time turning them. Michelle Bachman can utter any crazy thought that goes through her mind and she is safe as can be.
    .
    If there is a construct where “punishing” might work (And I think it’s a stupid idea for all the reasons stated) it would be going after the Democratic districts who didn’t vote for the bill. Colin Peterson et al.

  • plukasiak

    Another reason that “punishing” the red districts is not very smart is that the republican districts left are so republican that you will have a hard time turning them.
    _
    this isn’t as true as you seem to think — and Texas is a perfect example. Delay’s gerrymandering plan created a lot of districts in which the GOP would win in “normal” times (a 55-45 split), but which could go Democratic in bad times. In other words, Delay’s plan was less about protecting incumbents than expanding GOP representation — and that creates more “at risk” Republicans when incumbents are not in favor because times are bad.

  • Paul-no not that one

    You are correct I shouldn’t have been so absolute, pl.

  • http://phoenixwoman.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/that-thump-you-just-heard/ That Thump You Just Heard… « Mercury Rising 鳯女

    [...] Woman on February 19, 2009 …was me falling to the floor in a faint upon realizing that I can sympathize with the sentiment behind something Joe Klein wrote: Huffpost reports that the House GOP members, who had so many wonderful things to say about the [...]

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Let’s also remember that there are plenty of good people who live in the districts that Klein wants punished. I may not agree with their views, I might not want to have them over for dinner – but they remain Americans, with the right to the same consideration and equal treatment as I and my friends. Ask yourselves this: suppose Klein were to propose distributing stimulus funds on the basis of race or gender. Everyone would react with outrage to such an obvious display of bias and corruption. What he advocates here is the same approach – but using political affiliation and votes rather than race or gender. It’s a repulsive and foolish tactic that would damage the US and Obama badly.

  • sqr1

    “I agree and understand the motivation, but it’s like arguing with people with no short term memory. You can win over and over again, but they never really learn or are even able to accept the fact that they just got their asses handed to them on a plate.”
    .
    “The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?” WOPR, Wargames

  • plukasiak

    Ask yourselves this: suppose Klein were to propose distributing stimulus funds on the basis of race or gender.
    _
    false analogy. people vote for their representatives, and race/gender is not a matter of choice.
    _
    One of the most stunning things about the GOP’s support is that so much of it comes from people who are voting against their own economic self-interest. In other words, all these “good people” who support obstructionist republicans deserve to be denied the benefits of programs that Democrats often pay a high political price for supporting.

  • Cliff

    p_luk – it’s like you’re a member of the AEI arguing that the reason the Gaza strip isn’t pacified is because it hasn’t been bombed enough, and that just as soon as Israel bombs the hell out of them they’ll realize they’re wrong.
    .
    What’s the problem with conservatism nowadays? It’s full of ignorant motherf–kers. So your solution to this is to cut the money that might go to schools, and hope that these ignorant motherf–kers will become less ignorant?
    .
    That’s a great plan there, boy genius.

  • Art Pepper

    If anyone is still reading this thread – punishing red states for the sins of the GOP is like bombing Gaza for the sins of Hamas. It won’t turn the population to your side.
    .
    Obama has stated that he wants to be the President of all Americans, and I support him in that.
    .
    Now, if the DNC wants to run ads pummeling the GOP for their wanton stupidity …

  • Art Pepper

    Cliff – I swear I didn’t read your post before my last comment! Funny we both thought the same thing.

  • sacredh

    Punishing people in districts because they are unfortunate enough to be represented by republicans serves no purpose. The republican representatives are still going to welcome the money even as they criticize the passage of the bill. If the money helps their constituents they’re still going to try to spin it as if they should get the credit and if it doesn’t help they’ll spin it as proof that the bill was as bad as they had said. They continue to pursue their divorce from reality and nothing is going to convince them that they’re wrong. Every statement they make and every fist pounding pronouncement is going to be the fodder for the 2010 elections.

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Lukasiak, I realize you like to grandstand, but you simply don’t understand the argument here:

    33.plukasiak Says:
    Thursday, February 19, 2009 at 11:40 am
    Ask yourselves this: suppose Klein were to propose distributing stimulus funds on the basis of race or gender.
    _
    false analogy. people vote for their representatives, and race/gender is not a matter of choice.

    The issue isn’t identity choice, the issue is whether an elected government can punish people who voted against it by using a biased approach when it is distributing stimulus money. That has precisely nothing to do with whether people choose their gender or political affiliation. It’s an issoe of discrimination based on group identity. Think about these things before you post glib responses. The policy proposed by Klein is ethically questionable, and politically foolish.

  • Cliff

    Art Pepper – get out of my head!

  • nuoska

    “The fact that control of government is split between the major parties, as it was in different configurations in the most recent presidential elections, is not a fact of much significance for American voters. Regardless, under both Republican and Democratic presidents, and with Congress in the hands of the opposite party each time, voting decisions follow the premise that responsibility for the economy lies with the president, not with Congress. To the extent that the congressional vote bears an economic stamp, it is a copy of the presidential imprint. These findings for the economy hold up net of the electoral effects of key factors such as party identification, ideology, and issues.”

    Norpoth, Helmut: Divided Government and Economic Voting. Journal of Politics; May2001, Vol. 63 Issue 2.

blog comments powered by Disqus