What is Mike Huckabee Talking About?

Mike Huckabee says the stimulus bill is “anti-religion.” The Christian Coalition calls it “an attack on people of faith.” The Traditional Values declares that the economic package “stimulates anti-Christian bigotry.” My goodness. Maybe the devil really is in the details.

Or…maybe this is a classic case of social conservatives ginning up yet another false charge of anti-Christian bigotry in order to avoid coming up with a legitimate reason to oppose the stimulus bill. Let’s look at what we’re really talking about here.

The provision that has the Huckabee gang all atwitter would prevent the use of federal construction funds for college facilities used primarily for religious purposes. In other words, you can’t take federal money and use it to build a chapel on your campus. It does not do…well, pretty much everything Senator Jim DeMint claimed it would:

“[It] would make sure students could never talk openly and honestly about their faith … what this means is that students can’t meet together in their dorms if that dorm has been repaired with federal money and have a prayer group or a Bible study. They can’t get together in their student centers. They can’t have a commencement service where a speaker talks about their personal faith… Classes on world religions and religious history, academic studies of religious texts could be banned”

Now, that’s just ridiculous–and unabashedly disingenuous, to boot. Again, the provision would prevent the use of federal funds for the construction of religious facilities. That’s been federal law for decades and has to be reiterated every time monies for school construction are approved.

Of course, while social conservatives have been crying wolf about this higher ed construction provision, they’ve largely ignored a provision in the House version of the bill (the Senate version largely stripped out school construction funding and the issue is at the crux of negotiations between the two chambers) that didn’t include parochial and other nonpublic schools in the “green schools” initiative that allocates money for schools to modernize. What their protest has done is conflate the two issues for many congressional staffers, some of whom have hardened their opposition to allowing parochial schools to access the modernization funds. Way to go, Huckabee Gang.

Says one religious lobbyist advocating for an expansion of the green schools provision: “The Traditional Values crowd doesn’t have the material interests of religious higher education institutions in mind. They’re just trying to put points on the board. They’re not interested in the green schools issue because it’s not something you can put in a direct mail piece. There wasn’t any language in the House bill that explicitly said parochial schools can’t get this money. But the higher ed section had to clarify that you can’t use this money to build a chapel. So they’re taking that and running with it.”

What’s most maddening is that the people getting the mobilization alerts and emails from the Christian Coalitions of the world are getting squeezed under the weight of the collapsing economy. There are legitimate arguments to be made that this stimulus package may not be the solution they need. But instead of making those arguments, the Huckabee Gang would rather scare folks with false claims of bigotry and discrimination. WWJD? Hell, no.

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  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Abortion On Demand?

    = THAT’S MY BOMA! =

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    COMPLETE LIST OF OBONGO’S BROKEN PROMISES…

    http://change.gov/agenda/ethics_agenda/

    Some change, That One.

    Move On indeed.

  • yutsano

    DNFTT.
    -
    They need to whip the wingnuts into a frenzy Amy, you already know this. There is no deep analysis, all this is is trying to ensure Obama is a failure so the Reps can get back into power. That’s it. Nothing more to see here.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Skippy Obama has told more lies and broken more promises in just 3 long weeks, than the Bush 41 & 43 admins combined over 12 YEARS.

    = MOOP ACCOMPLISHED =

  • trifecta55

    Amy, this is why it is hard for democrats to work with your fellow evangelicals. The leadership is corrupt, rotten to the core, and gives not a damn about their followers interests.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    http://change.gov/agenda/ethics_agenda/

    The lies of Obama and Biden deserve a special prosecutor.

    Anyone have Ken Starr’s office number?

  • FlownOver

    yutsano –

    It’s also how they get contributions to pay their own “expenses” for talking trash and raising more coin – as opposed to actually contributing to the GDP. It’s their full-time gig, and they don’t really care that much who wins or loses any election.
    .
    Amy –
    It looks like you’re starting to get it. Now you just need to acknowledge this tactic is the rule rather than the exception among the pols “of faith.”

  • Deggjr

    What prevents the Mike Huckabees and Christian Coalition, et al from talking about God’s love and Jesus Christ? They use the word religion then talk about anything but.
    .
    Matthew 22:21
    .
    Ephesians 4:29
    .
    Romans 2:24

  • newfloridian

    Hurry up Rapture and happen so we can get these insane people off this planet.

    Ever consider that perhaps the Religious types back in the early times simply misread the scriptures or picked up the wrong book and never realized that the Rapture is supposed to cleanse the Earth by gathering up all the crazies! Wouldn’t that be a hoot!!!! Jesus is coming back to get the crazies. Bet Huckabee is at the top of his list.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Huckabee is not the issue.

    The lies of Obama and Biden IS the issue.

  • Cliff

    what this means is that students can’t meet together in their dorms if that dorm has been repaired with federal money and have a prayer group or a Bible study
    .
    This is the stupidest f–king thing I’ve ever heard in my life.
    .
    AS – thank you for pointing this out and for calling out Mike Huckabee as making the world worse for everyone.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    that’s just ridiculous–and unabashedly disingenuous
    -
    That’s your modern GOP, and its minions in the pseudoreligion-politics complex. Put it in the print version, please.
    -
    A fine post, thanks for flagging this, I hadn’t seen it anywhere else.

  • yutsano

    She’s improving Elvis, I’m giving her mad props for it. Maybe she just needed to get her blogging legs. Then again this is right up her alley.
    -
    I wonder if we can get Hula to hyperventilate after the recovery bill passes.

  • mmchampion

    Great post Amy. You’ve gotten a lot of grief from the commenters here but, as JNS also found, give us obscure but relevant, factual, and interesting information and we’ll be happy. For a bit. Until you post something we don’t like. :)
    .
    It also appears that we found one of Hulagate’s buttons. Go Amy.

  • sacredh

    Thank you Amy. You’re in danger of being accused of some serious journalism. Huckabee isn’t really driving center-right anymore. He’s kind of just smashing into the guardrail over and over again and bouncing into traffic. There’s nothing wrong with being an evangelical or being an atheist if the truth and honesty remain the focus. Mike strikes me as the type that examines every piece of toast and pancake for images of Jesus or Mary before he takes a bite though. Sincere, but crazy as hell.

  • http://policingwingnutwelfare.blogspot.com/ JJ

    My theory: As a theocon, Huckabee’s got to eat a s**t sandwich and prove he’s on board with the money cons:
    .
    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/062703.php

  • formerlyjames

    Let’s not forget the standard christian fundamentalist lie that you can’t carry a bible into a public school.
    .
    Great post.
    .
    As to the grief AS has suffered, I have watched it with disgust and wonder at the trivialities that sometimes set off the Swamp Regulars vitriolic feeding frenzies. Please give it a rest, for AS, MS, JK and every other Time blogger that may rub you the wrong way slightly. KT seems to be the only one who holds any respect here.

  • http://policingwingnutwelfare.blogspot.com/ JJ

    They already sent Coulterbot 3000 after him. She will terminate him with the vicelike grip of her iron hooha if he doesn’t fully prostrate himself before Mammon:
    http://www.rawstory.com/news/2008/Coulter_Huckabee_clash_over_support_for_0112.html

  • stuartzechman

    Amy Sullivan:
    .
    Says one religious lobbyist…
    .
    Whether I agree with the substance of your post or not, intellectual honesty forces me to ask you:
    .
    Why can’t you get that “religious lobbyist” on the record with their claims?
    .
    Why must this person’s identity be shrouded in mystery?
    .
    Why can’t this person’s claim to know the real motives behind “The Traditional Values crowd” be evaluated in light of their, you know, job as a lobbyist?
    .
    I’d really love to be contributing with my own version “Rah, rah Amy! Those prominent social conservatives sure are dishonest!“, but I know exactly what I’d be complaining about if your post’s message were running counter to my values. I’d be criticizing you for this very problem.
    .
    The standards of journalism have changed a bit, Amy Sullivan.
    .
    Good journalism doesn’t merely make assertions about a “provision that has the Huckabee gang all atwitter” without linking to or providing an accurate quote of the legislation in question.
    .
    Good journalism doesn’t merely quote an un-named source speaking to the thoughts of other people.
    .
    Good journalism doesn’t proclaim “Let’s look at what we’re really talking about here.” and then not actually let the reader look at what we’re really talking about here.
    .
    My politics would love to take you at your word, Amy Sullivan, and get all set to rail against Jim DeMint for his rank dishonesty, but my integrity does not allow it, given that I only have your unsupported claim that the legislation in question “does not do…well, pretty much everything Senator Jim DeMint claimed it would“.
    .
    How am I supposed to know how it is exactly that you know with total accuracy that Jim DeMint is lying or an ignoramus or both? Like many commenters here, I’d certainly be likely to believe that this is the case, but if all I have to go on is a (literally) bold assertion that “It does not“, then that’s simply not good enough –even when it comes to people who I do not like and whose ideology and values I vigorously oppose.
    .
    Unfortunately, that’s the only intellectually honest response I can make to this post, Amy Sullivan. My values demand that I hold this piece of yours to the same standard I’d impose upon another with which I strenuously disagreed.
    .
    Please provide links or quotes to the sources that prove claims like “social conservatives have been crying wolf about this higher ed construction provision“, or expect the same criticism that Joe Klein so richly deserved for his idiotic diatribes against “civil liberties extremists” that were based on completely false descriptions of a House FISA bill.
    .
    Please support your claims with facts, Amy Sullivan.
    .
    That is the least we can expect from journalists in a post-Saddam’s WMD world.
    .
    Thank you in advance for reading and considering this criticism.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    it’s not something you can put in a direct mail piece.
    .
    Now once you get that none of this is about anything except generating outrage and revenue, you understand why they rail against abortion, but do nothing about, make false claims about the Fairness Doctrine, and in general just make sh!t up that ticks people off, then you understand how it works.
    .
    It astounds me that the savvy Beltway journalists are so easily gamed.

  • formerlyjames

    SZ, she did provide links. Maybe not as many as you would have liked, but enough to support everybody’s previous knowledge of the fundamentalist line (on both sides of that line) to make this a good blog post.

  • newfloridian

    formerlyjames: Problem is SZ likes to bring a microscope to every argument and look for the pimples on a gnat’s Azz and than hollers out… “defend it!” Sort of like getting lost in the forest for the trees.

  • stuartzechman

    formerlyjames:
    .
    I’m sorry, I should have made it more clear that I meant links to sources citing the provisions in question.
    .
    She’s only provided links to statements by the people who she claims are proven wrong about this knowledge she has about what’s in the proposed legislation.
    .
    My criticism with respect to the un-named lobbyist quoted in post should be clear, I hope.

  • deathbypapers

    SZ, does Amy need to hold your hand? Yeah it probably would have been nice if she had included the link to DeMint saying this ON THE SENATE FLOOR, but it’s pretty easy to put this quote into Google (or your search engine of choice) and find it for yourself. Also, she gave three links to the wolf crying at the beginning of the post, trusting that her reader could follow a relatively simple argument all the way through a short blog post. Finally, from what I can remember from my journalism class in high school the quote from the religious lobbyist is what is known as a “blind quote,” which is often mandated by the source. Most likely because it’s not good business for a religious lobbyist to criticize a demi-god (pun intended) like Huckabee. Personally I think its nice to take a peek behind the curtain of religious lobbying. Is it really that important that we know the identity of the specific religious lobbyist? Besides, would that even mean anything to the majority of her readers? I’m not keeping a running tally of religious lobbyists, and doubt that many people are.
    Good grief…

  • stuartzechman

    Just to add:
    .
    An example would be “…the provision would prevent the use of federal funds for the construction of religious facilities…
    .
    It’s not nit-picking or being focused on the microscopic to ask the person making the argument “How do you know that? Were you just told that by somebody else?“.
    .
    It’s up to us to examine that claim in light of a citation of the provision in question, otherwise we’re no more capable of making good judgment than if somebody just told us via some website that “Senator Jim DeMint, Republican from South Carolina, has said that there is a provision in Barack Obama’s stimulus legislation which is ‘an attack on people of faith.’“.
    .
    The people who read that website have as much actual information about the bill as we do from Amy Sullivan’s post, unfortunately.
    .
    It’s not “forest for the trees” to expect to be treated with more brains than the members of the Christian Coalition, unless the “forest” is all about winning politically, and not holding the posters here to better standards than Tony Perkin’s crowd deserves.

  • stuartzechman

    Hmm…there still seems to be some confusion about what links I’m talking about, so I’ll try again:
    .
    I’m not demanding more links to the social conservative lobby’s line.
    .
    I am asking for links to citations of the actual provisions to which the social conservatives objected.
    .
    Not more fundie links.
    .
    Links to provisions she says they’re lying about.

  • deathbypapers

    Fair enough, though I doubt we’ve gotten many links to specific lines in the Stimulus bill on other issues, and like Amy said federal funds have been kept away from construction of religious buildings for many years. Additionally, I don’t think that’s the point of the post. It seems to be more focused on admonishing the demi-gods for freaking out.
    Also, I stand by my support for the blind quote of the lobbyist. I don’t think that is a fair criticism.

  • stuartzechman

    As to the problem with political journalists’ constant, unnecessary references to un-named sources, I’ll let Greenwald handle that question (just substitute that eternal paragon of honesty “lobbyist” for “government official”).

  • deathbypapers

    I don’t think Greenwald’s complaints (which are fairly spot-on) is that they don’t work here. The lobbyist that Amy is quoting is pretty far from the party line on the issue. In fact s/he is complaining about the shenanigans of the movement’s leaders.

  • stuartzechman

    …and I should add: thank you very much for reading and considering my commentary here, and taking the trouble to respond, either positively or negatively.

  • Friar Tuck

    Wow! I stepped out for a while and missed the party.
    .
    From the Department of the Blindingly Obvious:
    .
    [A] classic case of social conservatives ginning up yet another false charge of anti-Christian bigotry in order to avoid coming up with a legitimate reason to oppose the stimulus bill.
    .
    Folks, false charges are all they’ve got – it’s all they’ve ever had.

  • deathbypapers

    Happy to have a quality exchange. Anything to keep me from writing another paper on Ibero-American independence for my seminar on Latin American Nationalism.

  • Friar Tuck

    Hey! I closed that italic.

    False charges are all they’ve got – it’s all they’ve ever had.

  • Friar Tuck

    Zeus, dbp – I hope you’re at least in grad school.

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    I dunno, Friar, I kinda thought the emphasis was warranted.

    The bigger question is – always will be? – why “real Americans” eat this sh.t up. I’m going with “teh stoopid.”

  • deathbypapers

    Brother Tuck: Grad school it is, though to be honest I’d prefer to be visited by Athena rather than Zeus right now. Actually, Dionysus wouldn’t be too bad either.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Let’s not forget the standard christian fundamentalist lie that you can’t carry a bible into a public school.
    .
    But woe betide the carrier of a Koran.

  • flacidcasual

    Parental Advisory: Strong Language

    I’m just about fed up with Huckabee and the Gang. If they were to be happy and “Celebrate” I wouldn’t mind, but it seems to me that the prevailing image of American Christianity as projected by Huckabee etc. is that of a pissed off idealogue, who’s sulking because they aren’t running the table. There are many religious folks who believe that qualities such as charity, compassion and generosity should be extended to people who demonstrate the same level of respect in return, even if the person on the other side goes to a different church, or no church at all. But there’s the other group that uses religion to divide and to make a purely political argument. Live and let live I’ll say. Love thy neighbor is another way to put that.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    AS-
    .
    I do want to echo stuart’s concern about anonymous quotations. If this source won’t go on the record with something this innocuous, then what’s the value of the sourse?
    .
    This isn’t as egregious as Ambinder’s stenography of Obama’s DOJ in support of the extremely broad interpretation of the state secrets notion, but I still don’t see why it is necessary.
    .
    Why did you grant this source anonymity?

  • shepherdwong

    MEMO to the MSM: Republicans are all liars.

    The most amazing thing to me is how you all view yourselves as so cynical and hip about politics and politicians while you treat the lies and propaganda of Republicans with such credulity and respect. It’s quite a hoot to watch once you get over the tragedy of what that means for informing the public.

  • deathbypapers

    Jay: While this might seem innocuous to us, do you think the bigwigs of the religious party think so? Remember when Congressman Gringey dared to voice what I’d imagine many Republican lawmakers are thinking about Rush? I’d imagine that Huckabee/DeMint/Christian Coalition are very similar for religious right circles. Especially if this person (who is a lobbyist after all) makes her/his money off them.

  • formerlyjames

    flacidcasual (nice name…casual flatulence?), good points. I am as unreligious as a stupid human can be, yet I don’t dismiss all religious believers. I voted for Obama, after all, and he is only paying lip service to seculatarianism so far. But still, I would rather have a religious freak (within some reason) live next door to me than the bikers who hooted McCain’s squeeze at the rally during the campaign.

  • newfloridian

    Whoa formerlyjames: Let’s not sterotype bikers- and no I am not one. Many of those bikers who hooted McCain’s main squeeze (assuming the wife and not the lobbyist girlfriend some might think) up in the Black Hills of SD were probably lawyers, accountants, doctors, etc. The Harley drivers tend to be very upscale and quite often professionals. It’s the guys flying the Rebel flag you don’t want next to you. Because they got pit bulls, cars on blocks, drunk wives and relatives and don’t usually keep a job for long so they turn their homes into grow houses or meth labs to make ends meet.

  • sacredh

    You think that’s bad? I live next to a church and I’m an atheist.

  • shepherdwong

    newfloridian: you know bikers! And dirt-balls.

  • newfloridian

    sacredh: Does the idea of standing outside the church on Sunday morning with a sign saying “You’re all goin’ to Hell” ever cross your mind?

  • newfloridian

    shepherdwang: Florida is infested with both, along with mosquitoes, roaches, etc. By the way we’ve stopped trying to kill off the roaches. It’s much easier to give them names, then they become pets and we don’t kill our pets in America. Problem is the little boogers are difficult to tell apart, thinkn’ about tagging them so I can keep the names straight. Any suggestions Swampland?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Amy used WWJD as a glib quick line, but if you think about it carefully this sort of behavior is precisely what Jesus railed against.

  • formerlyjames

    newfloridian, forgive my lapse in sterotyping. You are right, I am wrong. I was grasping for civilized behavior and it comes in all forms as do the uncivilized. Thanks for the heads-up.

  • shepherdwong

    By the way we’ve stopped trying to kill off the roaches. It’s much easier to give them names, then they become pets and we don’t kill our pets in America.”
    .
    I love your name for Cockroaches: Palmetto Bugs, and they fly! Doesn’t make them any less painful at 80mph or fun to scrape off your face shield but it sounds so…picturesque.

  • sacredh

    newfloridian: Actually, I’ve been friends with every minister they’ve ever had next door. Half the time I cut their grass for them. I’ve never asked for any money and strangely enough…they’ve never offered to pay me. The only problem I’ve ever had was when Bush was running for his second term. I had a large sign in my front yard that said “BUSH SUCKS”. I had a second sign next to it that said “DICK too”. The “too” was in very small letters and couldn’t be read from the road. My meaning was clear and the second sign disappeared after a few days. I suspected “divine” intervention.

  • newfloridian

    formerlyjames,

    No forgiveness needed. I knew where you were coming from and goin’ you just forgot to include the Rebel flag reference.

  • newfloridian

    God works in mysterous ways. As far as the Palmetto bugs, they are more likely to be clinging to you or running around on the auto carpet than hitting a windshield. Now if you ever get down this way in April or September we get the GD love bugs. Now they can cover a windshield in just a few minutes- don’t know how the helmetless motorcycle drivers drive down the road during those months. Bugs in the grill during those months takes on a whole nother meaning. By the way nothing eats them cause they evidently don’t taste good to other bugs or birds. The love bugs also splatter across the car paint and their juices can eat up a paint job. Real fun! But that’s the paradise we call Florida. If I had more money I’d spend those months in West Yellowstone, Montana and of course bring my pet roaches along.

  • shepherdwong

    Oh and does that mean you haven’t stopped trying to kill the bikers and dirt-balls?

  • arinkay

    Paul D,
    .
    I think we can safely go out on a limb and posit that a considerable number of Christians have never truly contemplated “WWJD”.

  • newfloridian

    They’re all God’s creatures. But keep the bikers, exterminate the dirt-balls.

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    I grew up in a Catholic household, but I don’t consider myself as such, anymore. I figure, about now, given that whole “created in God’s image” thing, He’d be saying, “Oh, no you don’t. There’s no way you little beasties are anything like Me.” Maybe not.

    sacred: that was hilarious.

  • orangeranium

    Tradional values set aside for the moment: What about our core freedom. This bill has more than $$ at it’s center. We are seeing the death of a nation here. Wake up America. If we want jobs, we need to make things to sell. Buying from overseas has caught up with us. This thing of “giving away” btw, that’s an oxymoron money is crazy. Worse than that, it has an agenda – CHANGE is what we are getting. But what kind of change???

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    As to what arinkay Says: WWJD
    Certainly he would not give away all kinds of money. II Thess 3:10that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

  • texasconserv

    Gov Huckabee has been against the bailouts from the beginning. He has used his show to promote getting involved by contacting your senators and representatives and telling them to vote NO on the stimulus. Huckabee has sent out emails and twitters regarding the pork in the spendulous package. He was against Geithner for Treasury Secretary. Huckabee talking about the anti-religious aspect of the bill, is only one of the many reasons why he is against it. Go to his huckpac to learn more about the other reasons he is against the spendulous package.

  • http://matthew25.org/2009/02/amy-sullivan-keeps-huck-honest/ Amy Sullivan Keeps Huck Honest « Matthew 25 Network

    [...] Keep Reading [...]

  • http://barkbugsleavesandlizards.com/?p=1047 bark, bugs, leaves, & lizards » Bark Eater Roundup

    [...] to take some shots at those bastards.  Now some of them have suspended the anti-spending mantra to fabricate a freedom of religion crisis, while others are making up stories about Nancy Pelosi and mice research–all simply to [...]

  • nearlynormalized

    Huckabee, like others like to hear himself talk. I want to see him interview the “PALIN” and see if then can outdo eachother. Go Huckabee you “HUCKSTER”…

  • pomonapost

    Why doesn’t time print the original language? Also, I’ve seen this very similar article in several different posts. Do you all send each other templates?

  • beachboiusa

    Hulagate and all the Christian loving Obama haters out there need a nice young surfer dude penis up your rectums to give you a good dose of reality and an attitude adjustment!

  • jacdavey

    This Mike is a real kiss — to Fox News. He wants to keep his gig going with Fox.

  • http://tehtable.wordpress.com/2009/02/16/mark-halperin-is-such-a-tool/ Mark Halperin is such a tool « Around Teh Table

    [...] didn’t write. They resorted to lies and panic to try to shut down the stimulus plan (see the “anti-Christian” stimulus). Even John McCain was just outraged that this bill contained the broadband plans that were a key [...]

  • http://pamelalyn.hypocrisy.com/2009/02/17/what-you-can-learn-about-people-and-politics-by-staying-sober/ What You Can Learn About People and Politics By Staying Sober | Coffee, Tea & Hypocrisy

    [...] Amy Sullivan reported in her article What Is Mike Huckabee Talking About : “Mike Huckabee says the stimulus bill is ‘anti-religion.’ The Christian [...]

  • http://blueingreen.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/another-manufactured-christian-controversy/ Another manufactured Christian controversy « blue in green: faith + culture

    [...] is perfectly reasonable and required by the Constitution in any case. See this explanation, or this one (by an evangelical Christian) for more [...]

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