Legalize it, already

Not going to happen. Our federal government will not listen to the will of the people. All 50 states could pass decriminalization bills, and it wouldn’t change the fed position a bit.
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The prison guard unions, the beer and wine distributors, and big pharma don’t pay all that money to congress for nothing.

Look out, Klein’s phone is about to be tapped and his emails read.
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I mean by the FBI in addition to the NSA.

sorry Joe, but if you expect to get comments to your post, you’re going to have to take a page out of KT’s book, and demand the death penalty for Phelps or something equally ridiculous as suggesting Mitt Romney for “health care czar”

hear hear! but tell me there would be the same reaction had the photo been of lebron james.

if it’s going to happen, it’ll be for medical purposes. somehow i don’t think michael phelps qualifies for that.

Won’t happen. Too sensible. Too many sanctimonious people for whom this is an easy “moral” issue.

Since woodworking is one of my hobbies, marijuana and power tools are less than an ideal combination. Getting randomly tested for drugs is also an incentive not to partake. However, it’s ridiculous to incarcerate casual users. Taking someone who is employed and paying taxes and turning them into a sinkhole for taxpayer dollars makes very little sense. The alcohol industry should be worried. How many people know how to make Jack Daniels? How many people can figure out how to stick a seed in a flower pot?

Dirty Hippies showing up everywhere.

I hate to burst the baby boomer knee jerk reaction (“legalize it”) bubble, but its increasingly apparent that marijuana poses serious risks to people who are predisposed to developing certain mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia. (just google “marijuana, risk and schizophrenia” for heaven’s sake).

The idea that it is a “harmless” drug has been under assault by studies developing and proving this hypothesis for years, and without a complete understanding of how the drug effects the dopamine system prior to legalization, it would be criminally irresponsible to pass that legislation.

Let’s get our attitudes out of 1968 and into the serious work the medical researchers are doing.

I just hope Phelps didn’t see that Cash4Gold ad during the Super Bowl. If he gets a powerful jones for more of that pot he might send some of those medals in!

“Marijuana should be legalized and taxed,” thought Joe Klein as he closed the door to his office, opened the top drawer in his desk, and extracted the small wooden pipe that he had picked up during the ’92 campaign. Or was it ’88?
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Moments later, as his tensions faded away and he randomly perused the WaPo.com website, Joe found his eye fortuitously falling on the headline to a Kathleen Parker column. A new blog post began to crystallize…

But alcohol, that’s not harmful in the least to a persons health and should of course be legal. America as a whole is still not ready to re-examine, let alone overhaul it’s drug laws. Despite the total failure of the War on Drugs.

I hate to burst the baby boomer knee jerk reaction (“legalize it”) bubble, but its increasingly apparent that marijuana poses serious risks to people who are predisposed to developing certain mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia. (just google “marijuana, risk and schizophrenia” for heaven’s sake).
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just as soon as they do studies on the incidence of schizophrenia and chocolate, eggs, and jujubees, I’ll start worrying, okay?

wbrain, I found studies that were interpreted to show that use *by adolescents* could interfere with brain development. We’re talking about adult use, here.
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Still, rather than legalizing it, how about just decriminalizing personal use for now? A sort of gateway law.
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Also, I’m worried. Kathleen Parker is starting to make sense to me. Of course, the revelation that she’s a closet pot head might have something to do with it.

Sorry, I forgot that boomers don’t worry about these issues until the New York Times tells them too.

Biiliecat, so far, yes, it is in adolescents and I apologize for not making that distinction.

>>>marijuana poses serious risks to people

Not remotely as lethal as alcohol or tobacco, regarding both of which we trust adults to decide for themselves in weighing the risks against the pleasures.

If you think we should bring back Prohibition and completely outlaw cigarettes (and declare “war” on the producers, distributors, and consumers of both), then at least you are consistent albeit in holding a laughably unpopular and untenable view. But the idea that marijuana is in a category of its own, and ought to be treated differently from alcohol and tobacco, can only be motivated by cultural prejudice as there’s no scientific basis whatsoever for it.

Phelps’ use just shouldn’t have been news. Apparently it’s okay to be 60 and to have experimented when you were 23, but it’s not okay to be 23 and experiment. What a buncha puritans we apparently are.

To clarify, my comment about puritans is about our culture and its appetite for the scandalous. Not a comment about those here who are concerned about the risks to people of marijuana’s use, which I share (didn’t share that concern when I was 23 though).

What kathy said.
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This country has to stop being so freakin’ hypocritical. Seriously. We permit the Afghanis to sell to support their country and foster a drug trade in Iran, but we want to criminalize personal use here in the US. Further, from all apparent evidence, it appears that the alcohol and tobacco lobby are the only folks in the country who think this outright prohibition is working. Imagine that?

” .. It’s costing the society way too much in terms of law enforcement and hypocrisy. .. “

huh?

eh!
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So does porn and pedophilia cost the society way too much in terms of law enforcement …
And billion dollar crimes – like the SEC-Maldoff ponzi schemes.

In fact, ‘crime’ in general … it costs too much in law enforcement. Decriminalize it? In fact we may thus never need ‘law enforcement’ and hypocrisy again! Ever.

Bad idea. Poor reasoning.

The thoroughly unqualified, terrorist fraternizing, communiity organizer and clueless socialist should nominate this dazed, bloodshot-eyed stoner and irrelevant fool named Kathleen Parker to head HHS. She’s adored by the Washington press corps and the rest of the bong addled community.

Let’s get our attitudes out of 1968 and into the serious work the medical researchers are doing.
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I’m trying to…but I’m hungry, man.

Easy, textee, you’re harshing my mellow.

kathy;
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It’s not that we are puritans. It’s just that marijuana is still a useful tool for the bigots who make up the majority of America’s law-enforcement storm troopers to use to oppress undesirables.
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The true message behind Harry Anslinger’s propaganda campaign was “Help us keep the n***ers and sp*cs down.” Then in the sixties, they added “hippies” to the list. Now, with Medical Marijuana being prescribed for AIDS patients, they have added “f***ots” to the list of those they can joyously use the laws to oppress.
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Criminal involvement in the marijuana business is an iatrogenic disease, and the forces who make their living enforcing our marijuana laws love it that way.
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Those ignorant of the history of Federal criminalization of marijuana should review it here.

I have a personal story to add as to why it should be made legal.

My brother has a chronic illness (Bechet’s Syndrome) and when it flares up, he’s in agony.

For years he smoked pot to alleviate his pain but after he got busted for a small amount (he got a slap on the wrist from a sympathetic judge and my bro’s doc testified for him)and then switched to Vicodin.

Guess what? Within a year he was addicted to his prescribed drug and went from there to crack and meth. He is now in prison for a sixteen-month stretch in a federal pen because he was caught up on the sidelines of a forgery scam.

Taking Vicodin (or any kind of heavy-duty painkiller) for a chronic illness is very bad news.

sqr1 Says:
Wednesday, February 4, 2009 at 11:08 am
“Easy, textee, you’re harshing my mellow.”

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sqr1:

That is funny, and I don’t even know what the hell it means. I’ll check with my stoner friends for the translation.

And I want to add that the money we save on prosecuting pot cases (not to mention the money we would raise by taxing pot) could be used to help meth and crack addicts.

My mother and several siblings live in East Tennessee where everyday you can see what a scourge on the land meth is. I remember in the 80s where we were all in an uproar because of crack. Where is the concern about meth, is it some kind of racism because so many white people are doing desperate things to get their fix?

Completely agree with you. Also legal drinking age should be 18 not 21. It’s 18 all across Europe. College kids drink anyway just because of the thrill of doing something they’re not supposed to. If you can vote, have sex, and drive at 18, why can’t you drink?

Making something illegal because people may have a predisposition is a very slippery slope. Should saturated fats be made illegal because of a predisposition to heart disease? Also, a serious political debate about legalization isn’t even close to being on the national stage. A more interesting and meaningful debate are state laws and the federal government/agencies refusal to recognize them. Also, the repeated occurrences of police failure/refusal to follow procedures set forth in state law concerning medical dispensaries. If a state can pass a law to ban the sale of alcohol the fact that a state can pass a law and the federal government ignore it is an issue that needs to receive the focus.

” ..We permit the Afghanis to sell to support their country .. but we want to criminalize personal use here in the US. ..”

Did I read somewhere that domestic (USA) cultivation of marijuana may account for as much as 50% of the (1995 ?) U.S. market and that most of it is grown on federal lands?
[FEDERAL!]

What is it that you said about drugs and the government of Afghanistan?

southernbell: ouch. I think the Massachusetts approach of decriminalizing the possession of small amounts without legalizing it is a good step, and would have protected your brother.

JK, I hope you’re a bellwhether on this issue. The “war on drugs” is idiotic. It was infuriating when I lived in L.A. and California voters decided to legalize marijuana for medical use, and the Federal government declared it would simply overrule the state and prosecute cancer patients anyway.
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Note to wbrain and others: Legalization (or decriminalization) is not the same as advocating the use of.

I don’t think you can make a single argument for the prohibition of marijuana that you can’t make for alcohol or tobacco.

rebecca – because alcohol isn’t a good mix with sex or driving (not voting, either). Alcohol is a big problem in the University here. Can’t imagine how much more of a problem it would be if legal. The illegality does keep a bit of a brake on the overuse, and gives tools to help deal with it.

My take: It should be a misdemeanor unless you’re in business to distribute it.

bojengle Says:
” .. Making something illegal because people may have a predisposition is a very slippery slope. .. “

Some have argued that they were born gay or bigamist.
Some serial rapists and serial murderers have argued that they were born that way.

And what perceived predisposition applied to being black or Jew or gypsy in Europe?

While we are on that slippery slope, we may want to determine which “predispositions” are allowed – depending on the times in our history. Society does just that.
It is often cruel to those impacted.

kathy, you’re right.

But making the medical use of pot legal in all 50 states would have been better. Smoking pot really did help many of his myriad symptoms.

I know there would be “abuse” of the law if pot was made available to everyone in the US for medical reasons, but we all know that prescription drugs present a huge addiction problem, too.

@sgr1: lol

@JK’s update: Agree in part. My understanding of the current research is that it has not completely identified precisely who is most vulnerable for developing schizophrenia. For example, there is the produrmal phase of schizophrenia, which, as billiecat alluded to, is typically in pre-adolescence and adolescence. It is thought that marijuana use during this time is most dangerous for adolescents who are produrmal (i.e, going to convert to schizoprenia at some point). It is also thought the marijuana use in all adolescents may contribute to an attenuated form of schizophrenia (basically, a marijuana induced psychosis that may be a lifelong problem).

So while I understand that there would be a legal age for marijuana use, just as there is for alcohol, the dangers of people buying it for adolescents who are really should not be using it may increase.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not un-empathetic to the adults whose medical conditions and symptoms may be alleviated through use of the drug. But far past the simple argument that it is a “gateway” drug, I believe the reality is that we do not fully understand its effects on the developing brain and that the time for considering it to be a harmless drug has passed. Add to that the fact that there is still a large stigma in this society attached to issues of mental illness and mental health that leads to it not being discussed seriously in most quarters, if at all, and we are doing ourselves and some of our children a disservice.

I apologize for the somewhat preachy nature of the post. Thank you for the forum.

“marijuana poses serious risks to people”
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Links please. And cfukura…hands down the dumbest thing you’ve ever posted here. Prison guard unions are a problem, and you’re taking funding away from the police state who loves them some toys that go boom!, and they’ll really hate not having that extra excuse to kick someone’s door down. However, I think the financial crisis the states are experiencing might be the final straw as there is no doubt that taxing MJ would go a long way to filling those coffers. So I am becoming more and more optimistic…it’s practically legal in Cali now. We’ll see. Perhaps more importantly, we could finally begin to assess the medical applications of MJ…there are some interesting studies that indicate MJ shuts off cancer receptor cells in the lungs, which would obviously be huge.

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Art Pepper: …the Federal government declared it would simply overrule the state and prosecute cancer patients anyway.
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And we heard next to nothing from conservative state’s rights advocates. If you’re a gay couple and want to have the same civil rights as a straight couple, it’s a state thing; if you want to offset the effects of chemo, then it’s a Federal issue.
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Anyway, Klein’s right, Parker’s right. Legalize it, regulate it, and tax the hell out of it. Make oil and paper out of it, while we’re talking about alternative energy production and resource conservation.

YOu know what’s missing here? An argument FOR prohibition of marijuana. What is it exactly? Don’t even try the gateway argument.

KT:
” .. Commenter Sqr1 fantasizes about me having a pipe and stash stashed in my desk. Sorry, but the office is a smoke-free facility. ..”

But, between you and I, we know that laws are made to be broken, right?

Yet, KT is not denying that she has a stash in that desk.

WOW! KT found where to get smoke-free marijuana!
Now, that is progress! Can I get some of that?

enough already… why should the puritanical/prohibitionist viewpoint dictate public policy so obviously wrong? its wrong, and we should not put up with the crap anymore. tobacco and alcohol are more dangerous. no one has EVER died of a pot overdose… tobacco kills thousands a day…. alcohol accidents have gone down dramatically because it has become socially unacceptable to drink and drive… same approach to pot should be used. it would also dramatically reduce the violence in Mexico.

cfukara – one word: brownies.

Don’t even try the gateway argument.
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Didn’t you read southernbell? First thing is the pot. Next thing you know you’re hooked on crack and meth. The gateway couldn’t be any clearer. That the courts may have a role in hurling citizens through the gateway is irrelevant.

wbrain: Even disregarding a possible schizophrenia connection, children should not be smoking pot, just like they should not be drinking. I don’t think anyone disputes that.
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Has the war on drugs curbed teen drug use? There was certainly rampant pot use in my high school.

Just as I often complain that we seem to think that the only tool we have to influence a country’s behavior is explosive devices, I can complain that we think the only tool we have to influence an individuals behavior is jail time.
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There’s be a lot less nonsensical back-and-forth over whether something should be illegal if there were a little more creativity in considering sentencing and rehabilition options.
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The American fascination with condemning behavior that doesn’t directly affect the condemner seems to be a national affliction.

cfukara – the post is Joe Klein (beard), not KT (no beard).
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Personally, I’d like to see weed legalized for AARP members, and only allow sales by people collecting social security. It could be the casino industry for retirees. Old enough to know better, but too old to care. Brain cells dwindling anyway.

Let’s be clear about something, pot is not the gateway drug. Beer is. Also, there is no intelligent argument that says beer and cigs are safer. This is cultural only, medical arguments have no merit in this discussion.

Mother’s milk is a gateway drug.
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“The American fascination with condemning behavior that doesn’t directly affect the condemner seems to be a national affliction.”
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That’s really a WASP thing isn’t it?

You misunderstand me.

My brother did NOT go to crack and meth after smoking pot for many years (10). It was after he switched to Vicadin, an extremely addictive drug and perfectly legal, that he began his downward spiral.

Crack and meth are horrible, horrible, horrible. Same goes for heroin. I guess I’d rather spend my tax dollars preventing people from using and getting treatment for them when they become addicted than prosecuting them.

But I do know many people who can smoke pot in the same way they drink alcohol. Plus, you can grow you own and eliminate the middle man (the nasty drug pushers who kill people to protect their empires).

It’s funny to see this bandied about. I came upon this article in the WaPo about the ordeal a small town mayor had to go through because of a drug raid, all for some marijuana.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012302935.html?hpid=topnews

Like people have noted before, too, the thing with marijuana and schizophrenia is that it applies to those ‘predisposed’. It doesn’t create the condition, and yes, while it will accelerate or exacerbate it, that can probably be noted for quite a few other things too.

There’s also just the sheer number of people we’ve incarcerated for being caught using.

southernbell:

Sorry to make light of a serious subject, but I was mocking the tortured “gateway” arguments that are made.

BTW, pot is a gateway drug. A gateway to good times.

southernbell49 – Yeah, seriously. I mean…look at just how many drugs could do some serious nasty and lasting damage when ‘abused’, but are legal all the same for their medical benefits.

Marijuana’s only real difference there is that it’s not trademarked by Pfizer.

re: schizophrenia and marijuana –
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I’ve seen no etiological evidence that marijuana use among adolescents results in a higher incidence of schizophrenia. An equally (if not more) likely explanation is that those who are pre-disposed to develop schizophrenia are also predisposed to certain behavioral patterns that would include marijuana use. Lets face it, “pre-schizophrenia” is probably not a very happy mental state, and marijuana’s europhic and sedative properties may provide symptomatic relief.

“So does porn and pedophilia cost the society way too much in terms of law enforcement …”
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Yes and no. One is to protect adults from their own behavior – you know, not really government’s job and the other is protecting children from adult behavior, which is a good job for law enforcement.
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Throwing people in prison for what they read or smoke is not much of a “liberty” proposition.

@ art pepper: Agreed. I did not mean to imply that anyone was advocating children smoke pot or drink alcohol.

I have sought to introduce into this discussion an example of why the blunderbuss approach of “legalize it” or “prohibit it” doesn’t work. Too many of our “cultural” discussions (2cute4prison) involve this either all or nothing approach (the war on drugs), and it simply isn’t helping solve any of these problems.

Also, I hope urge folks to reject what I believe is the still widely held idea that it is or can be a harmless drug. My impression is that it underpins a large portion of the legalization argument (if I am wrong, please correct me).

Granted, there is still the problem that keeping illegal or making it illegal does not keep it out of the hands of folks it may harm, children or adults.

What may ultimately succeed in doing that is a discussion of what the risks are for certain members of the population and educating folks as to what those potential risks are.

Also, why is this debate always framed with the health issue? This is a public safety issue as well. This is a huge money maker for dangerous gangs, take a look at the border with Mexico. I know they sell other drugs and services, but taking away this source of income from them would be very damaging. Not to mention putting that revenue stream to work for us could do wonders. But I’m foolishly assuming the Gov would spend the money wisely.

“Also, I hope urge folks to reject what I believe is the still widely held idea that it is or can be a harmless drug. ”
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You go on and on but provide zero evidence….telling.

@kryptik1: as to whether or not marijuana can “cause” schizophrenia in people not predisposed to doing it, its debatable. see: http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSTRE4A26JV20081103

And one point I meant to raise is that we do not have a complete understanding of who is predisposed for some of these mental illnesses. we know who is likely to have an increased risk.

@kryptik1: as to whether or not marijuana can “cause” schizophrenia in people not predisposed , its debatable. see: http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSTRE4A26JV20081103

And one point I meant to raise is that we do not have a complete understanding of who is predisposed for some of these mental illnesses. we know who is likely to have an increased risk.

Let’s be clear about something, pot is not the gateway drug. Beer is.
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it depends upon the gateway. If we’re talking about consuming stuff that makes us feel better, sugar and chocolate are the real gateway drugs.
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Marijuana is a “gateway” drug if the gate leads to the subculture associated with drug use/abuse. The prohibition of a relatively harmless substance like weed severely weakens the effectiveness of arguments against the use of more dangerous drugs. In other words, its status as a gateway drug is dependent upon it being prohibited — remove the prohibition, and the gateway goes away.

@wbrain: I appreciate your point, but I say it’s “cultural only” because any argument about it’s medical merits are pointless when products that kill you directly (and say so on the box) are being sold legally. There is no study and never will be a study that shows pot is more dangerous than cigs. So to pretend like “health” is a major concern is a ruse to deflect the argument.

This guy’s been arguing dishonestly through the thread…is there some organized web push back from LEA types going on here?

I like Dan Shaughnessy’s take on this, especially the last sentence (sports columnist with the Boston Globe):

Sorry, I can’t get into a lather about this Michael Phelps bong photograph. He has apologized appropriately. He’ll no doubt be tainted in the eyes of some, but it’s a pretty minor transgression. A 23-year-old guy inhaling a little weed? Stop the presses! Please. Our popular president has admitted to much more in his not-so-reckless youth. Phelps gets a pass on this one. It’s the cowardly creep with the cellphone camera who is worthy of scorn.

My impression is that it underpins a large portion of the legalization argument (if I am wrong, please correct me).
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Not so much that as it seems to be about as harmful as legal (or less than) chemicals. For a fantastic example, look at southernbelle’s story about her brother and Vicodin.
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Another issue for me is that we’ve created this gigantic black market for drugs, and it’s turning Mexico into a narco state. I read that 7000 people died last year in Mexico from the gang wars. Kind of a big deal.

joyomama:
I like your AARP proposal.

@pluk:
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Not sure I follow…it’s not a 100% statement but MOST people have their first beer before anything else. A nice beer buzz makes it easier to take a hit and so on…beer being legal does not stop it from being a “gateway”.
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Also, I’m not sure there are very many “subcultures” that smoke weed and do heavy drugs but don’t drink.
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The assertion that pot is a “subculture” is really funny.

Thanks for reading and responding to comments, Joe!

“The prohibition of a relatively harmless substance like weed severely weakens the effectiveness of arguments against the use of more dangerous drugs. In other words, its status as a gateway drug is dependent upon it being prohibited — remove the prohibition, and the gateway goes away.”
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…and the black market and the $billions spent of law enforcement and imprisonment of Americans for their choice of recreational drug (and the anti-Contitutional, anti-liberty moral stain that goes with the latter). Since tens of millions of people already use marijuana in spite of prohibition (and are criminalized by their government for doing so) then there’s almost no cost for decriminalizing it.
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Don’t hate it, regulate it.

Various commenters have correctly pointed out that not everybody should smoke marijuana (people using power tools, people with schizophrenia). It does not, of course, follow that people who do not use power tools or have schizophrenia should also not smoke it.

I’d like to see it become a cottage industry, legalize growing and selling up to maybe 10 or 100 pounds a year without any license or tax, with larger or commercial sales volumes requiring a license and taxes.

The assertion that pot is a “subculture” is really funny.
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Been a while since high school, huh?

Decriminalizing marijuana might actually make several industries happy. The sitcoms on regular TV might appear to be funny. The lousy musical product being put out may seem to interesting and innovative. Cookies? I’ll have a bag of Oreos please. The trolls might appear to have a point. Fox would be funny instead of infuriating. Rush and Coulter might finally get laid without shelling out some cash. The potential benefits seem endless.

Actually Cliff, I’m posting this from freshman biology with my phone. And I’m stoned.
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So you think it’s still just a couple of hippies and darkies huh?

Not sure I follow…it’s not a 100% statement but MOST people have their first beer before anything else. A nice beer buzz makes it easier to take a hit and so on…beer being legal does not stop it from being a “gateway”.
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to me the issue isn’t “getting high” — that’s why I talked about sugar and chocolate (not to mention caffeine.)
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Its about what makes something a “gateway” to harder drugs. Beer isn’t it — adult alcohol use is like sex in that its about the appropriation of “adult” privileges as a signifier of personal autonomy.
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Marijuana use signifies something different — not the appropriation of adult privileges denied to adolescents, but the appropriation of behavior that is prohibited to everyone. Its an entirely different line being crossed, and as such it functions as a “gateway”.

oops, second sentence above should read “adolescet alcohol use is like sex….”

kathy, thanks for posting that from the Globe. Excellent.

sqrl, no prob.

Last summer I traveled to Amsterdam. The visit provided me with some great insight to the effect pot legalization has on a society. For some reason I expected to see parks with shady characters hanging out, or dark alleys to avoid at night – thanks to the scare tactics and “gateway” crap we get bombarded with growing up in the US. But what I saw there was completely different. It almost had a Disneyland cleanliness. I didn’t see one homeless or mentally ill person on the street, was never approached by a dealer – to tell you the truth it was the healthiest society I’ve ever seen visually – no cars, everyone fit and walking. The key is that taxes made on soft drug legalization go toward programs for the folks who do slip into hard drugs (predisposed addicts – a completely different problem than recreational pot use). Establishments either have smoking or non-smoking signs and if they are smoking it includes pot. People have the choice if they don’t want to be around smoke. It gave me a sense of personal responsibility that I don’t get here with all of our so called “protection” laws. Everything in Amerstam is at-your-own-risk and guess what? It works.

Ok Pluk…I think you’re out-thinking yourself here. If all you’re talking about is a “gateway to harder drugs” then ask yourself, realistically, where do people start? Beer. What this or that “signifies” is really irrelevant. People like getting messed up, they start with beer and go from there. To a kid drinking beer illegally, smoking pot illegally is not really a huge step. The “gateway” definition has nothing to do with what’s legal.

A couple of powerful, non-intuitive industry oxes that play into the political calculus here are the wood/paper industry (think Weyerhaeuser) and the textile industry. Why? Because industrial (non-psychoactive) hemp could be quite cost-competitive with wood pulp and cotton and works quite well as paper and fabric. The psychoactive variety has been used a stalking horse against industrial hemp for decades.

2 more things about Amsterdam:
- I never saw one cop car
- I saw an elderly couple who could have been my mom & dad rolling a fatty at the breakfast table in a cafe – hilarious!

So you think it’s still just a couple of hippies and darkies huh?
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Ok, I get it now – you’re saying that pot smoking is part of the main stream culture, right? If that’s the case I’d go along with that.

Pot should be legal. There is no reason that pot should be illegal and alcohol and tobacco legal. Making it legal to use marijuana for medical reasons is the first step to making this drug more socially acceptable. Another step would be to decriminalize the personal use of pot. This has been done at the city/county level of government in many cities across the country (Denver, CO for example).

The last three presidents have admitted to pot smoking (or more). Two out of three suffered no apparent brain damage.

[...] ricky gervais says racial Jump to Comments joe klein says: Kathleen Parker has the precisely correct reaction to the Michael Phelps flap. Marijuana should be [...]

“A police officer friend of mine once pointed out something essential about the role marijuana plays in the War on Drugs: from a law enforcement perspective, it’s easy. Marijuana use is incredibly widespread, particularly among certain predictable populations, like college kids. Because it’s not a hard drug, marijuana users, most of whom are a lot like Phelps (smart, hard working, young – not “addicts”) are far less likely than other drug users to carry a weapon or get violent with an officer. Cops are under constant pressure to keep their numbers up. That’s how they prove their efficacy to their bosses, and its how their bosses get money from their bosses (again, this is my friend’s theory, but obviously I could have picked that tidbit up from The Wire)…Busting college kids for holding weed and taking down grow houses is a terrific way to keep these numbers up.”
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/02/weed-and-the-dr.html#more
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And here is the crux of the issue. For the government, the prohibition laws act as a job security program for cops, lawyers, judges, prison guards and ‘tough on crime’ politicians. We warehouse people and throw their lives away expressly for this purpose. We do not however hold responsible white, wealthy and politically connected criminals who start illegal wars, illegally wiretap and rob the treasury. Nor should we…right Joe?

@ cinncinatus: Your officer friend isn’t the only one who has that theory. I also have friends in law enforcement who look at it as a risk/reward scenario. A closet with a grow-light guarded by a kid writing a term paper poses far less risk than a meth lab with a psycho packing an automatic weapon. As for not holding white, wealthy, politically connected criminals responsible…get serious. They’re our elected representaives. We pay them to spy on and rob us.

To be clear sacredh, it’s Andrew Sullivan who has an officer friend. I have better standards.

@ cincinnatus. My mistake. I’m getting ready for work and missed the link. I am a fan of Sullivan though. I try to never miss an appearance of his on Bill Mahr’s show. I’m not a drug user or even much of a drinker, but the whole war on drugs fiasco drives me half nuts. It’s so bizarre to even put weed in the same category with the truly dangerous drugs. 30 years ago when I did partake, I couldn’t even get up the willpower to change the channel on the tv let alone go out and commit a crime. The most violent I ever got was arguing that it wasn’t my turn to change the album.

Not only should it be immediately legalized, it should be force fed to all members of the press, along with massive tubes of brew, during holiday driving season on I-95.

Because everyone knows that stoners drive safely, and beer smooths the ride.

Next Up: How Heroin Improves Mental Health

If I really wanted to suffer the impact of unlimited pot & brew use in the work place I’d just buy another crappy GM product.

“it’s Andrew Sullivan who has an officer friend”
_
you mean this guy? http://www.truthaboutit.net/pictures/Village-People-Cop.jpg

@ kathy: alcohol and sex don’t go together? wtf….

who smokes on here? how many of the hundred commenters actually knows about weed?

i just find that funny….although I agree it should be decriminalized – this just comes down to public knowledge. i would guess that a signif. portion of the country would refer to herbs as narcotics, which they are not….good luck gettin’ this done…

wbrain: FWIW, I also think we should stop treating narcotics as a criminal issue, at least on the consumption side. Whether that means legalization, decriminalization, or simply moving dollars from enforcement to treatment.
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In the case of marijuana, the enforcement effort and the cost in prisons etc is totally disproportional to the magnitude of the problem.

Re Phelps, it’s like when people freaked out that Kate Moss was photographed snorting coke. “What? Supermodels take cocaine!?!? OMG!!”

Dave’s not here, man.

To All United States Government Officials:

The American People want Cannabis Legalized!!! We are very tired of the U.S. Government including Cannabis in the Drug War! I am not necessarily against the War on Drugs, as I am against the use of dangerous drugs in our society – but I am totally against Cannabis being considered one of those dangerous drugs! Cannabis should in no way be considered a Schedule I Drug! As WE ALL KNOW – alcohol AND tobacco are both far worse for the public – yet they are legal. Cannabis is the safe alternative to alcohol and tobacco as well as other bad drugs (many of which are legal). Many of us partake of Cannabis BECAUSE we cannot handle the deadly (and highly addictive) effects of alcohol – yet alcohol is legal and Cannabis is not. The People of the United States of America want the Prohibition of Cannabis to end!

We The People are also very concerned about the Economy and the Environment. It is well known that Cannabis produces TWICE as much ethanol as Corn (which is needed for food). If farmers split their planting acres between Cannabis and Corn then they would produce as much ethanol as they produced before the use of Cannabis AND still be able to produce food – not to mention that the Cannabis Bud could be sold for a nice profit – benefiting both the farmers AND the United States Taxable Revenue!!! Cannabis also produces FOUR TIMES more paper products than trees and makes much higher quality paper! Again – Four times the paper PLUS taxable revenue!

The Environment, the Economy AND Cannabis Legalization are all related. Many of the same industries that oppose Cannabis legalization are among the worst Environmental offenders. Their demand to keep Cannabis illegal is also a demand to keep polluting. If Cannabis were legalized, many products that currently poison the Environment would then be replaced by safer alternatives. Many of the companies that are among the worst Environmental offenders would be forced to convert to producing the safer alternatives!

Most current Pharmaceuticals include large lists of side effects that often include both “risk of dependency” and “death”. Many current Pharmaceuticals could be replaced by Cannabis and Cannabis related products. And as everyone knows – There has NEVER been a death from consuming Cannabis – EVER – and Cannabis has been used for all of recorded history!

People who use Cannabis are NOT criminals! People who use Cannabis are not funding Organized Crime – the United States Government is funding Organized Crime! The continued Cannabis prohibition also means that the United States Government is funding Terrorism! People who use Cannabis DO NOT want anything to do with Organized Crime or Terrorism – they want to legally support their government through taxation!

If you are “not in favor of the legalization of marijuana”, then that means that you ARE in favor of the continuing practice of punishing and imprisoning (otherwise law-abiding) citizens who partake of Cannabis. Over 800,000 people arrested for Cannabis possession in the last year alone! We are now getting close to arresting 1 million people per year simply for Cannabis…

Please Support Cannabis Legalization!

“Sorry, but the office is a smoke-free facility.”
~
Image: “The office!” A thin smile raising his whiskers, a glint in his eye, visions of sweet gan-ja smoke undulating in his palatial den at home. Priceless. Joe’s college yrs. were what 1964-68 or thereabouts. He must have been a straight freak.

48 comments in and finally a Cheech and Chong reference.

FlownOver — love the classic Cheech and Chong reference.

wbrain: This theory on marijuana leading to schizophrenia is just that, a theory. They found no connection between marijuana use and schizophrenia and in fact merely found a correlation, which in case the article doesn’t mention is not and does not mean a connection.

Also, the article in question, which I have read, does not mention that over the past century the massive increase in marijuana usage has not corresponded with an increase in schizophrenia.

A statistic I saw somewhere, possibly on this site, said that marijuana arrests account for approximately 47.8% of all drug arrests, and approximately 0% of all deaths, seem fair?

And also, wbrain…the relatively harmlessness of marijuana is not the only basis for the legalization movement. It’s medical values cannot be overlooked and the fact that prohibition does not work, the government is funding gangs, individual rights, etc. are all valid reasons for legalization.