McCain and the Stimulus

“With so much at stake, the last thing we need is partisanship driving our attempts to turn the economy around.”
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So support the Republicans and oppose the Democrats, eh?
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Every bit as coherent and consistent as his campaign.

Dear Jay – McCain supporter?

Oh, and btw, it looks like his message to supporters went to you directly. How might that have happened?

“I have long been a fighter against wasteful spending in Washington and long an advocate for a balanced budget — that will never change.”
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Shorter John McCain: I support the government nudging recessions into depressions.

Nice letter Senator Reach Across The Aisle.
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I imagine most reporters are on a lot of politicians e-mail lists guys.

Well that just about does it, McCain once again shows the lack of class he displayed through out the campaign. And that country first mantra is as hollow now as it was when picked Palin, suspended his campaign, lied about supporting the new GI bill etc. Too bad the only media to call him out is Rolling Stone and David Letterman.

He also contradicts himself by calling for a stimulus package — any stimulus package — and a balanced budget.
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Wake me when McCain doesn’t sound like a complete buffoon.

jay, did you embed the right link in the letter? Because I clicked on it, and its just a default page for a website that isn’t ready yet. All that is there is a video to watch, and a chance to sign up for emails. There isn’t even a link for contributions!

McCain: Note to self, update mailing list on a regular basis.
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JNS it’s not important to me if you’re a registered (R) or just a smart reporter who filled out one of the cards to get on the mailing list, when the result is a post like this.

Oh, the irony.

Did you get an email from JOHN MCCAIN? Wow, how special do you feel? I know Maverick’s not trying to game you, you’re just too smart for that!
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“ThinkProgress has admirably demonstrated that the cable networks continue to tip the scales in favor of Republicans by booking like twice or even three times as many Republicans as Democrats to discuss the Stimulus Bill. But that only tells us what we already know, which is that the Washington press establishment is still wired for Republicans.”
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/02/its_the_stupid_stupid.php

Is anybody seriously surprised? I mean which wingnut in the Senate ISN’T sending out that form letter right now? I think its great. It makes the line between the two parties much more stark and now people can see who is who.

pluk – didn’t you read the banner? Country First, website later!

Tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts! It is the only thing McCain and his ilk know or understand. Don’t let the fact that unchecked de-regulation coupled with tax cuts and no meaningful cut to spending created this mess…

Would someone please ask these blow-hard Republicans the obvious question: “Given that your party brought the country to the brink of economic collapse in a mere eight years, why should ANYONE care what you say about the economy?

I have a question about this disclaimer at the website…
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Paid for by Country First PAC
Not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee

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If John McCain is the chair of the PAC then isn’t it infact authorized by a candidate? Im’ just saying

It’s so good to see the press fluffling McCain again – just like old times.

But seriously, McCain lost. Who cares what he thinks?

“But seriously, McCain lost. Who cares what he thinks?”
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The country rejected McCain, the beltway didn’t.

I notice that with their usual skill at the word game the Republicans have succeeded in renaming this the stimulus package, and are demanding that everything in it be an immediate stimulus. On my congressman’s web site he said he voted for the bill:
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WASHINGTON, DC – Rep. Peter Welch supported and the House passed Wednesday the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA), a major effort to rebuild the economy by providing tax relief, creating green jobs and investing in the future. The vote was 244-188.
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the difference in emphasis is important, and is in danger of disappearing.

Cincy – Now I can get behind this. This is what I’ve been screaming about all morning. I know Obama plays the long game but so does the GOP and the goal is to trivialize the presidency until 2010 so they have a chance to turn the table on this juggernaut. I think the problem here is thinking that public wants bi-partisanship. I think the public wants civility and you can get that my ridding the government of conservatives.

As Atrios likes to say – elections have consequences.
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But as of yet, Republicans have not been given the opportunity to be involved. The House of Representatives passed a stimulus bill without a single Republican supporting it.
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John Mccain and his friends were in direct and total control of this Country for the last eight years. So now we’re supposed to be concerned that they aren’t STILL running things?
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Give me an effing break!

plukasiak:
Sorry, that was the wrong link, I have fixed.

Billiecat: I subscribe to a lot of politicians’ lists as I like to keep informed of what they’re tellnig their supporters.

If John McCain is the chair of the PAC then isn’t it infact authorized by a candidate?
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it probably has to do with the fact that until he’s officially filed for election to an office, he’s not a “candidate” in terms of the PAC laws. Under Arizona law (http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/16/00311.htm&Title=16&DocType=ARS) McCain can’t officially file for the 2010 primary until 120 days before the primary election

A. Any person desiring to become a candidate at a primary election for a political party and to have the person’s name printed on the official ballot shall be a qualified elector of such party and, not less than ninety nor more than one hundred twenty days before the primary election, shall sign and cause to be filed a nomination paper

The word “stimulus” should be in quotes. There’s no evidence that this is going to stimulate squat.

Dee, all polls indicate the GOP is not held in high esteem by the public at large and yet we still play this game. I’m shocked that they made this deal to have a GOPer named to Judd Gregg’s seat. Is this guy so f@cking important to Obama’s plans? Obama keeps giving an inch and they keep taking a mile.
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Posts about Obama’s cabinet pick’s tax problems: 2,117
Posts about the NSA wiretapping journalists: 0

I would like to encourage Congress to increase funding for fighting global poverty. The Borgen Project (www.borgenproject.org) has some great facts and ideas to help global poverty.
$30 billion to eliminate global poverty.
$522 billion on the U.S. defense budget.
There are 800 million people that go to sleep hungry every day, 300 million are children.

Dee
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Here is why what you are saying now, didn’t in my mind matchup with what you were saying in the earlier thread. You said this.
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While I don’t disagree that Daschle may not be the best person for the job and Greenwald and Taibbi have the right to bring Daschle’s short comings to our attention, with all due respect that’s not the point.
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Yesterday everyone was harping about how Obama was caving to the wingnuts for the sake of bipartisanship. Now we are advocating that Obama cave to media pressure because we don’t like Daschle.
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And what happens when they need another fix and decide to go after someone you actually like?
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the beast is insatiable and sooner or later they are going to want to put Obama in his place again. so should we wait until its someone worthwhile to stand up for our principals?

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To me your comments clearly were implying that people saying Daschle should step down were “caving” to the media. And that Daschle shouldn’t step down not because he didn’t do anything wrong but just because it set a bad precedent for future appointees. Now that may not have been your intention, and you know I love you like I love cake, but your words seemed pretty unambiguous to me.

Sorry, that was the wrong link, I have fixed.
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thanx.
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that being said, the snarky premise of this post (that McCain “may be the first American to see money from the stimulus”) is really unfair, insofar as there is no solicitation for funds on the petition site, and the only link on that site is to the solicitation-less default page.
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in other words, while McCain may be acting like a partisan hack who is more concerned with advancing the GOP’s prospects in 2010 than in the economic welfare of the nation, he’s not looking for money.
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Yet.

“Posts about Obama’s cabinet pick’s tax problems: 2,117
Posts about the NSA wiretapping journalists: 0″
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Let me save KT the trouble-”Would you say that if it was Bush?” Learn it, know it, live it.

Daschle withdrew

Breaking on MSNBC

Sorry, PNNTO that one’s gonna have to get in line behind “I’m not a media critic” and “I don’t do the hiring at Time”.

Okay that’s done. Now on to fresh meat.

cinci
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But judging from the last two days “would you say that if it was Bush” is moving up fast

One more talking point snatched from them. Andrea Mitchell is saying Daschle claimed it was the NYTimes article that did it

I believe we need to evaluate every bit of spending in this stimulus proposal with one important criteria – does it really stimulate the economy and help create jobs – if the answer is no, it does not belong in a so-called stimulus package.
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Jay Newton-Small:
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The problem with this statement is that its premise is a pillar of Republican economic ideology, which doesn’t seem to explicitly acknowledge any other mechanism for job creation than tax cuts for business.
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In a discussion over at economist Dean Baker’s blog at American Prospect, the premise of the Democrats’ plan is laid out simply by an erudite commenter thus:
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In economics, there are few opportunities to conduct actual experiments, but I think Lord Keynes has suggested one. Why don’t we actually take a Billion dollars, in fifty dollar notes and in gold and silver coin, and place it in various old mines in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, bury it, and announce that it is there and where approximately people will have to dig for it. Then we can acutally see if economic activity that would not otherwise exist is created and we could find out out if, through the multiplier, exceeds a billion dollars spent. I am pretty confident that Keynes is right, but this experiment would prove it one way or the other.
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Posted by: Rick Kane | February 3, 2009 7:55 AM

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The concept as described above is the premise behind government spending that can act to “really stimulate the economy and help create jobs”, as John McCain puts it. Note that it does not involve reducing the tax burden on industry.

From that same discussion, here is an excellent explanation of how the Democratic stimulus plan translates “burying a billion dollars”:
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There are important distinctions in the effect government spending will have on supply and demand. If the government starts hiring people to make widgets, this will have an effect on the widget market and while widgets may become somewhat cheaper, probably a lot of people will lose their jobs in the private widget industry. In other words, government spending can displace private industry if it is directed to consumer products for which there is already adequate supply. This may be good for socialists and bad for free-marketers, but it is essentially neutral economically and not stimulative.
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Of course those who designed the stimulus package know this, and the spending is directed to infrastructure and other things which do not compete directly with private industry. As Dean says, many of those who are criticizing the stimulus package do not know this or much else about the subject, and object to things which would actually stimulate and otherwise get things completely backwards.
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Keynes knew what he was talking about when he suggested burying money in jars so people could dig it up, and so did Bernanke when he said he would distribute money from helicopters. In a recession, these things would actually be better than hiring people to make things which private industry is already making or has the capacity to make. Of course hiring people to build or repair bridges, windmills, etc. is better than either as it has long-term economic benefits. Although the US system is described as free-enterprise, it does not depend on private industry to do infrastructure.
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So, in a recession:
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Government spending on making consumer products or giving money to private industry to make consumer products: BAD
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Government spending on things with no economic value but which do not increase consumer supply, such as digging holes, war and military items in general: BETTER
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Government spending on infrastructure which is absolutely necessary for economic development: BEST
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Posted by: skeptonomist | February 3, 2009 10:51 AM

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My question for you, Jay Newton-Small, is this:
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Why does it seem to many of us observers of this public debate that these basic (ideological) economic premises aren’t accompanying reporting (such as yours) on the statements being put out by partisans?
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Of course I’m not suggesting that each piece on the debate be prefaced by a lengthy passage on basic Keynesian economics, but it seems as if reporters aren’t even aware of this fundamental difference between the parties on this issue.
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Are you aware that basic infrastructure projects, as in, say the immediate refurbishment of the DC mall fit the Democratic premises of what is “stimulative”, but simply aren’t compatible with John McCain’s or Mitch McConnell’s ideology, Jay Newton-Small?
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Do all the Republicans have to do is to repeat “pork, pork” over an over again in order to get reporters to focus on the “Christmas Tree” frame?
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Can’t the differences between (and then the merits of) what the two parties fundamentally believe about economics be the context for political reporting such as yours, Jay Newton-Small, or is that just too complex of a job for the national press corps?
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(that’s a serious question, btw)

I have a question. Why do these people keep getting maids with questionable immigration status. I mean they can’t be that cheap can they? Not talking about Daschle now but just in general. That to me is like asking for trouble.

Dee, all polls indicate the GOP is not held in high esteem by the public at large and yet we still play this game. I’m shocked that they made this deal to have a GOPer named to Judd Gregg’s seat. Is this guy so f@cking important to Obama’s plans? Obama keeps giving an inch and they keep taking a mile.
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its not that Greg is a Republican, its that he’s a republican who opposed Obama’s “stimulus” plan, and wants to privatize Social Security.
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I actually don’t mind the whole “gotta replace me with a Republican” thing, insofar as it sets a new precedent for how “bipartisanship” should work that is consistent with the whole “change” agenda. (in other words, the next GOP president who wants to play the “bipartisanship” card won’t be able to use that card as a way of changing the make-up of the Senate.)
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By the way JNS
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Yesterday there was a report out that liberal groups that are set to target Senate Republicans started raking in the dough after the House Republicans all voted against the stimulus bill. So in fact John McCain if he even sees a dime WON’T be the first American to benefit from the stimulus.

Daschle withdrew
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phew!
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I was worried that I was wrong in saying that Obama was throwing Daschle under the bus after he expressed full support for Daschle yesterday. Looks like that was all about providing Daschle with as graceful an exit as possible under the circumstances.

atrios says Daschle is out. Good news.

Did you get an email from JOHN MCCAIN?
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I got it too…..

Jay – I was pretty sure that was the case, but given the statement that the email was “sent to supporters” and the fact it was addressed to you personally made the question an obvious one. And I wasn’t going to be the only one asking it. Sometimes you gotta connect the dots.
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Thanks.

Andrea Mitchell is saying Daschle claimed it was the NYTimes article that did it
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yeah, well, when information about what Daschle recommended to Obama’s transition team leaks from “leak-proof” Team Obama, it gets pretty obvious that you’re being thrown under the bus. (Daschle should have taken the hint when Team Obama started leaking about how Daschle’s failure to disclose to them was the big problem.)

You mean the other Jay, but yeah.

jayack – yeah, but it goes for you, too, comrade.

OBAMA,
OBAMA,
MEANS
TAX CHEATS O-RAMA!

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TEAM CLIXON II

“I appreciate the discussions President Obama is having with my Republican colleagues, but…as of yet, Republicans have not been given the opportunity to be involved.”
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Still a liar. Now a traitor.

Unfortunately, the proposal on the table is big on the giveaways for the special interests and corporate high rollers, yet short on help for ordinary working Americans.
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This is classic McCain rhetoric with absolutely no examples stated. The average Joe-the-whatever person on his mailing list will scan through this and say… gosh, that doesn’t sound good, I better sign that petition. I’m surprised it doesn’t say at the end “copy this and email it to 10 friends and you’ll have good luck for the next year!”

“Mommy, why do so many of Pwezident O’Bonger’s peeps cheat on their taxes that help support our brave troops freeing the Stalinist slaves in Iraq and Afghanistan?”
… … …
Timmy, nobody really knows for sure why they cheat so much. It could be a sense of liberal entitlement, it could be their way of getting even for being such moral cowards, it could be a sign of deep shame for their failure to fully support President Bush in the war on terror, it could be a way to get back at the Marines for corralling their constituents in Gitmo, or it could just be that they don’t do math.

Certainly, there’s somebody missing at the Office Of The Vetting Of The President Select. Likely union, on liquid lunch break since the election.

In any event, expect more of the same: Dumb choices, poor decisions, haphazard planning, spastic responses, and bogus outrage at the GOP for noticing the myriad flaws of the hope & change messiah.
… … …
YES WE CATCHYA.

SG — No I was saying that the discussion had morphed away from the media focus to the Daschle is a poor choice focus and I thought Daschle whether or not you support him was not the point. I wanted to focus on the media tactics and where it was headed.

Have any of you actually read the “stimulus package”?

I have and I also work with unemployed and homeless folk here in Tampa.

There is not ONE ITEM in that bill that would create a job for people who want to work.

If this President continues to scare the crap out of business – business is going to “hunker down” and go into survival mode.

There is nothing “stimulating” about growing the government by 180 offices included in this bill.

I hope not one single Republican votes for it – in it’s current form – and I hope they don’t just try to “bandage it” -

It’s a bleeding, hemorrhaging mess – and the blood will be on Peloski’s hands and Obama’s naivety in leadership.

“I appreciate the discussions President Obama is having with my Republican colleagues, but…as of yet, Republicans have not been given the opportunity to be involved.”
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You know, an actual reporter might investigate the truthfulness of this claim. Where might we find such a person?

kmac
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I live in Tampa too. So what you are saying is the money that is coming here from the money allocated to the states. Money which OUR REPUBLICAN GOVERNER wants to get and has signed on to a letter asking the Rethugs to help pass the bill will not help with keeping public jobs here in Florida? What about the sh*tty roads here in tampa that get torn up every time it rains? You don’t think that money will get construction crews working? You are sounding mighty silly right now. Not even the Republicans are saying what you are saying

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McCain:

But as of yet, Republicans have not been given the opportunity to be involved.

McCain’s a liar:

The package that passed the House already showed the result of some efforts at compromise. It included a collection of tax cuts opposed by many liberal Democrats, and lacked funds for a new contraceptive program whose removal Obama requested out of concern that it unnecessarily provoked opposition from some conservatives.

McCain:

The House of Representatives passed a stimulus bill without a single Republican supporting it.

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So? Not voting does not equal a ‘lack of opportunity to get involved’…I’m so glad that McCain (and the GOP in general) lost out in November.

There is not ONE ITEM in that bill that would create a job for people who want to work.
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wow. while I think that the bill is a mess, the fact that the construction industry (especially housing construction) is in the toilet, and that the bill provides billions for construction jobs (including billions for making low income housing more energy efficient) tells me that you’re just a troll.

Cincy – I understand the replacement for Gregg is a place holder, and won’t be running in 2010.
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It actually makes some sense to me to have this kind of agreement. The voters elected a Republican, and have some reasonable expectation a Republican will hold the seat for 6 years. Clearly Gregg was reasonable to ask for that. I’m not fond of the gaming to see who to take out of the Senate so they can be replaced by a member of the opposite party because of the Governor. It would be a lot simpler if the Governor replaced a person with a member of the same party until the next election. Then it also wouldn’t matter so much who the Governor was.
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A Republican is unlikely to reclaim this seat in 2010

There is not ONE ITEM in that bill that would create a job for people who want to work.
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kmac813:
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This statement is false.
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From a piece last week in the notoriously liberal, notoriously partisan propaganda rag PCMag.com:
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How Does the Economic Stimulus Plan Affect Tech?
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01.29.09 – by Chloe Albanesius
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The economic stimulus package has dominated nightly newscasts and newspaper headlines this week, and while Democrats and Republicans are still undecided over whether the bill is unnecessary or just the type of boost our economy needs, the stimulus does include some serious cash for tech-related projects.
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Broadband Grants
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The House stimulus package allocates $6 billion for broadband grants and loans, split between the Departments of Agriculture’s Rural Utilities Service and the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) within the Commerce Department.
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Agriculture has to allocate at least 75 percent of its $3 billion to rural areas without sufficient access to broadband, and these grants must be open-access. NTIA has to give $1 billion for wireless broadband grants and $1.825 billion for broadband deployment grants. At least half of the grants would have to be awarded by Sept. 30, 2009.
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NTIA would also get $350 million to track broadband availability and to develop a Web-based broadband inventory map.

The Senate, meanwhile, would award $9 billion for broadband grants, but it does not include any open access provisions. Of that, at least $200 million must go toward competitive grants to expand computer centers at public schools and libraries, while $250 million would go towards competitive grants for innovative programs.

The Senate bill also designates $350 million for broadband data and maps.
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DTV Transition
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…the transition is still scheduled for February, but funding concerns remain.
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Both versions of the stimulus package would allocate an additional $650 million for transition-related converter box coupon and educational efforts…
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Science and Technology Research
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American innovation has gotten a bad rap lately. Too many jobs are going overseas. Not enough math and science Ph.D. graduates are staying in this country. Our broadband penetration rates are dropping every year. Both stimulus bills, however, set aside a nice amount for research.
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For the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) within Commerce, the House set aside $100 million for technology services, while the Senate allocated $218 million. The House allocated $300 million for the construction of research science buildings, while the Senate upped the ante with $357 million…

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I have no idea where you’re getting this “information”, kmac813, but whoever is supplying you with it is almost ludicrously out of touch with reality.

The only thing it stimulates IS Hillary’s chances in 2012.

The best plan:

DO NOTHING.

The economy will recover, no matter how much the Democrat party tries to extend the pain and losses.

Amount added to GDP by guvment spending programs, in all of human history:

ZERO.

The PRIVATE SECTOR will power any recovery — and sooner, if the meddling tax messes called Team Obongo will simply STAY OUT OF THE WAY and let the market correct.

Less IS more, particularly now.

“I understand the replacement for Gregg is a place holder, and won’t be running in 2010.”
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According to whom, and who are the parties involved in this agreement. Cuz if the GOP is involved, I wouldn’t hold my breath. In fact, based on evidence at hand, odds would be that the replacement would indeed run in 2010.

According to whom, and who are the parties involved in this agreement. Cuz if the GOP is involved, I wouldn’t hold my breath. In fact, based on evidence at hand, odds would be that the replacement would indeed run in 2010.
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wouldn’t it be great if some lifelong Democrat re-registered as a Republican just to get the appointment, technically fulfilling the requirement, then switched back right after to caucus with the Dems?

Amount added to GDP by guvment spending programs, in all of human history:
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ZERO.
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QH:
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No, government spending actually accounts for about a third of GDP.
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In 2005, for example (when the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and the Presidency), government spending as a percentage of GDP was %35.97.

Here’s what a journalist might write about the truth of McCain’s and the GOPer lies:

“Any time you hear someone reciting one of these arguments, write him or her off as a dishonest flack.
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First, there’s the bogus talking point that the Obama plan will cost $275,000 per job created. Why is it bogus? Because it involves taking the cost of a plan that will extend over several years, creating millions of jobs each year, and dividing it by the jobs created in just one of those years.
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It’s as if an opponent of the school lunch program were to take an estimate of the cost of that program over the next five years, then divide it by the number of lunches provided in just one of those years, and assert that the program was hugely wasteful, because it cost $13 per lunch. (The actual cost of a free school lunch, by the way, is $2.57.)
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The true cost per job of the Obama plan will probably be closer to $100,000 than $275,000 — and the net cost will be as little as $60,000 once you take into account the fact that a stronger economy means higher tax receipts.
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Next, write off anyone who asserts that it’s always better to cut taxes than to increase government spending because taxpayers, not bureaucrats, are the best judges of how to spend their money.
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Here’s how to think about this argument: it implies that we should shut down the air traffic control system. After all, that system is paid for with fees on air tickets — and surely it would be better to let the flying public keep its money rather than hand it over to government bureaucrats. If that would mean lots of midair collisions, hey, stuff happens.
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The point is that nobody really believes that a dollar of tax cuts is always better than a dollar of public spending. Meanwhile, it’s clear that when it comes to economic stimulus, public spending provides much more bang for the buck than tax cuts — and therefore costs less per job created (see the previous fraudulent argument) — because a large fraction of any tax cut will simply be saved.
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This suggests that public spending rather than tax cuts should be the core of any stimulus plan. But rather than accept that implication, conservatives take refuge in a nonsensical argument against public spending in general.
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Finally, ignore anyone who tries to make something of the fact that the new administration’s chief economic adviser has in the past favored monetary policy over fiscal policy as a response to recessions.
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It’s true that the normal response to recessions is interest-rate cuts from the Fed, not government spending. And that might be the best option right now, if it were available. But it isn’t, because we’re in a situation not seen since the 1930s: the interest rates the Fed controls are already effectively at zero.
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That’s why we’re talking about large-scale fiscal stimulus: it’s what’s left in the policy arsenal now that the Fed has shot its bolt. Anyone who cites old arguments against fiscal stimulus without mentioning that either doesn’t know much about the subject — and therefore has no business weighing in on the debate — or is being deliberately obtuse.
–Paul Krugman

The United Nation’s Millennium Development Goals aim to cut world hunger in half by 2015 and eliminating it completely by 2025. An estimated $19 billion would eliminate malnutrition and starvation around the world. Our current defense budget is $522 billion, in comparison.

The Borgen Project (borgenproject.org) provides lots of information about this issue.

TED MACK’S AMATEUR POTUS HOUR

………………………..

Coming Soon To HULAgate.org

“government spending actually accounts for about a third of GDP”

WRONG.

The feds are a re-cycling center, at best, and with bad math as usual — where anything they get comes from the TAXPAYERS and FINANCIAL SECTOR. Call it redistribution of wealth, as I do.

Nothing gets done without private investment — including anything spent (on the taxpayer’s dime) by the burrocraps. Government entities dabbling in financial instruments is just that, since they must have a resource beyond printing money to truly subsidize their myriad projects. ALL of that comes from some place not governmental. Always. Without exception.

Government services (should we really call MAKE WORK that?) and handouts cease to exist without the revenue stream created by business.

They can cook the books all they want in D.C.

That does not equal reality.

Anything less is the Soviet Union.

Next!

“See the rest after the jump”

I assume it’s just old-man smell.

Please, somebody say “government services” today.

I really want to make the case for closing Interior and the FAA too.

I can’t imagine how thrilling it must be for McCain to have hulagate on his side.
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Better trolls, please.

So one wonders what magical elan vitale that infuses corporations that give them capabilities that governments lack. It must be some powerful mojo! But then again, I never trust anyone who hears more than three voices at a time.

Call it redistribution of wealth, as I do.
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OK, I will. It’s redistribution of wealth.
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It redistributes wealth from investment banks, where the multiplier has notoriously failed as of late, into the economy at large, where we expect the multiplier to be greater.
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Why don’t you call everybody communists, and be done with it?
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If you have something against Americans, and don’t want our country to succeed –perhaps at at the short-term expense of investment banks’ more imperial individual clientele– then you’ll stick with your “It’s wealth redistribution! That’s Marxism! Oh Noes!” caterwauling, QH.
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If you’re for a growing American economy that lifts all boats, then you don’t really care where the multiplier takes place, just that it does take place.
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Interest rate reduction’s not an option anymore, QH.

So one wonders what magical elan vitale that infuses corporations that give them capabilities that governments lack

They’ve done a heck of a job with mortgage lending and security in Iraq, though, right?

I love reading Johnny’s mail!
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As I told KT yesterday
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“Perhaps what some of us, humorless or otherwise, take issue with is it seems that most of the voices you guys link to are center or right. Some of the posts are pure stenography, some, like Joe’s of late, actively contend with these often warped purveyors of nonsense. But maybe it’d be great, for a change, to hear some voices outside of the centrist/estab. bubble? Voices from academia, the vast majority of intellectuals who aren’t employed by R-wing thinktanks etc. You know, for the millions of educated Americans who don’t think The NY Times is “liberal”! Post me some of those voices, say once a week, and I’ll give you a pass on J. Simpson et al.”

And this about my “liberal” hometown newspaper WaPo (yes, the progressive remaking of America is truly blossoming):
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Glenn Greenwald: Fairness compels me to note that The Washington Post announced last week that neoconservative war supporter Bill Kristol will now join neoconservative war supporter Robert Kagan, neoconservative war supporter Charles Krauthammer, neoconservative war supporter Fred Hiatt and neoconservative war supporter Jim Hoagland as a regular columnist on the Post’s Op-Ed page (along with war supporters David Ignatius and Richard Cohen), so it’s not as though one could accuse The Post — one of the leading arms of The Liberal Media — of lacking diversity of opinion.

So when did John McTurnip become and expert on the economy and all matters financial?

Thanks, but no thanks gramps – if you disapprove, there’s a pretty good chance I’d see the bill as favorable.

Atleast now we know to read everything JNS writes through a biased lens. Why is Mcloser even saying anything? I thought he doesn’t know much about the economy? The country rejected this retard and his ideas, so please spare us the nonsense.

“…maybe it’d be great, for a change, to hear some voices outside of the centrist/estab. bubble? Voices from academia, the vast majority of intellectuals who aren’t employed by R-wing thinktanks etc. You know, for the millions of educated Americans who don’t think The NY Times is “liberal”! Post me some of those voices…”
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Not bloody likely. See: rule #7.

I dig it Shepherd–yes, for all that ails us as a society (village writ small and large), the solutions MUST BE distilled down to two comfortable positions, espoused by almost equally corrupt spokesmodels, err, politicians. One is better, thus my voting record, but imagine going outside that circular firing squad of intellectual narrowness to actually hear alt. ideas? Imagine avoiding the idea-wo/men who are corp spokespeople, or the media figures who aren’t compelled to elude reality. What Frank said the other day is not remarkable at all for those of us already post-MSM, for those of us with an education or just plain commonsense. It was heresy in the incestuous echochamber of DC insideryness. Dare not speak of contradiction, hypocrisy or reality–that, after all, is always a “whole ‘nother show!”
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But imagining is for the likes of John Lennon. But I throw down the gauntlet to KT & JNS–in lieu of 10 posts about Daschle’s tax woes, instead of being the GOP spokesmodels parexcellence, why not repeat Frank’s truth 10 times. You did it for the Iraq salesmen. If you’re not outraged, well, my dears, you’re part of the problem–you are complicit.

The feds are a re-cycling center, at best, and with bad math as usual — where anything they get comes from the TAXPAYERS and FINANCIAL SECTOR.
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Looks like you don’t understand the basic economic principle of wealth creation.
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For example: I pay you 100 dollars to do my taxes. This frees up enough time for me to design a new toy that sells for 20 dollars. Meanwhile, you use that 100 dollars to pay someone to work on your car. The mechanic then uses that money to buy my new toy for his kid. I can now make more toys, my taxes are done, you have your car fixed, and the mechanics kid has an awesome toy — all because I paid you 100 dollars to do my taxes. If I didn’t hire you, none of this would exist.
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Take this analogy and apply it to government spending. You’re an idiot if you think the analogy doesn’t apply simply because the government is the one doing the spending.
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I guess all that government spending on the super highway system, the Apollo project, nuclear reactors, railway lines, and satellites didn’t do anything for our economy. Yep, not one thing. In fact, I think we should just tear up all our roads and destroy all our airplanes right now. The government spent a whole bunch of money developing them so they can’t be worth anything to our economy, right?
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Go back to elementary dude. While you are at it, try reading a macroeconomics book…

Dear Senator “Fundamentals of the economy are strong”:
You seem to know very little about economics – you admitted it, on TV, during your campaign. The only thing you know about it are “we need more tax cuts” and “That’s too much spending”, as if the last eight years haven’t proven what little effect those policies have on people who are not already wealthy. QED!

Why don’t you go and get your own economist? Find one, with impeccable credentials (who knows more than you do) and ask him/her if tax cuts and spending cuts will actually do anything for the meltdown. In fact, keep looking until you find one who agrees with you. I won’t hold my breath. But hurry, because tens of thousands of jobs are lost EVERY DAY.
Alice

Obama campaigned loudly about running a bi-partisan government. Yet his first chance, which happens to be one of the single biggest bills ever in the history of this great nation, he lets the most liberal of our country right it. Most bills are formed by bi-partisan committee. WHERE WAS THAT? He also campaigned loudly about transparency, yet even our Senators, such as Kay Bailey Hutchinson have not been provided with the recent and agreed upon compromised bill. I commend McCain for doing everything in his power to stand up and FIGHT as HE PROMISED. A Senator spearheading a petition is the mark of a maverick.
This bill is criminal.

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