In the Arena

Fixing the Stimulus Bill

Most of the Republican arguments against the stimulus bill have been sore loserism and cheesy politics at the least appropriate time–a moment of crisis. And many of the arguments Christopher Caldwell makes in this piece reflect the defects of the Republican position–spending money on education isn’t “welfare.” Indeed, if done right, it’s a form of infrastructure building, as David Leonhardt argues in this magisterial NY Times magazine piece today. But I’d make three additional points:

1. If there is going to be a bailout of inner city education, the schools should face the same sort of government nudge toward best practices that the automakers are getting. If the price of an auto bailout is higher fuel efficiency standards, the price for a Title I school bailout should be higher teacher efficiency standards–and one very easy step in the right direction would be to require school systems that take the federal money to abolish teacher tenure, a foolish practice that has made the firing of inept or corrupt teachers near-impossible. I know the teachers’ unions have all sorts of alternative plans–peer reviews and so forth–but none are credible. It is argued that teachers may be fired unfairly. True enough. Journalists, refrigerator repair people, lawyers and chefs are fired unfairly all the time–but in the overwhelming preponderance of cases, they’re let go for good cause. I also don’t buy the perennial teacher-shortage argument, especially now. The collapsing economy means that some very talented people may be looking toward teaching as their next profession.

2. I do agree with Caldwell, as a general matter, on the need to exclude Medicaid expansion from the stimulus bill. We should be thinking about–and enacting, without delay–a system that makes Medicaid (and Medicare, for that matter) obsolete, a universal system of the sort that Hillary Clinton proposed during the campaign (Obama’s plan is very similar, but not universal) that would put the poor and elderly into the same managed care system as the rest of us. 

3. If that makes for a smaller stimulus bill, so be it. Stimulus shouldn’t be seen as a one-shot deal. The health care reform that Obama has promised is a form of stimulus. The Apollo project to gain energy independence is going to require constant feeding, beyond the $23 billion included in the current bill. The important thing is to use this crisis as an opportunity to reform some of the broken systems we’re saddled with–education, health care, energy and so forth. It would be a shame if the money merely reinforced bad practices that exist today, as the first $350 billion of the bank bailout apparently did.

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  • plukasiak

    Joe, do you send your kids to inner city schools? If not, you don’t know what you’re talking about — just another rich white guy deciding what should happen to disadvantaged minorities.
    _
    pathetic

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    to abolish teacher tenure, a foolish practice that has made the firing of inept or corrupt teachers near-impossible.
    -
    Y’know, newspapers aren’t doing so hot either. And did you realize that Iraq invasion ringleaders like Charles Krauthammer, Fred Hiatt, Tom Friedman, and Bill Kristol still have jobs?
    -
    Lifetime tenure for pundits has killed way more people than lifetime tenure for teachers. I’d be down with ending them both.

  • Aaron

    Point #1: Joe Klein’s gut >>> data

  • arinkay

    Joe,

    I invite you to come teach my classes for a month or two, attend my professional development sessions, work my hours, receive my paycheck, and deal with my expenses. I might add that you also must, above all, ensure that each of my 522 students is empowered, challenged, and gains self-confidence from their work with you in my classroom, in addition to the work above and beyond curricular demands (because that’s what I do.) You also need to advocate for my position on a constant basis, especially with my supervisor, the asst. superintendent whose job depends on NCLB test scores (and who, therefore, shows plain antipathy towards my non-NCLB-tested program). Then maybe you’ll drop the “damn the teachers” tone in #1 (esp. your “those who can’t, teach” parting shot).
    .
    I don’t make a lot of money – it’s adequate, but not a lot. My state raided teacher pensions a few years ago (in the “good” years). My health care is being whittled away. The teaching profession is set up so that we can’t build our own financial safety nets; we have to rely on the state (yay non-monetary compensation). Tenure sure isn’t a perfect system, but it at least allows me a pretense of long-term security. I’d love an overhaul, but some real and practical alternative needs to be plain to me before I’d be willing to go out on the no tenure limb. In the meantime, I’ll continue to work my ass off.
    .
    Teachers are pretty much the pawns in the system, anyway. Here’s an idea – how about demanding that administrators and districts use the tools available to them to accurately evaluate teacher performance and deal with ineffective teachers?

  • wvng

    arinkay – 1, JoeK- 0.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Joe you’re not what one would call a fair person on public school teachers.
    From 2003 the Detroit Federation of Teachers didn’t just oppose Bob Thompson “A few weeks ago, Thompson withdrew his offer after the Detroit Federation of Teachers (DFT) led a furious, and scurrilous, campaign against his generosity.”
    http://www.time.com/time/columnist/klein/article/0,9565,526339,00.html
    .
    Of course a quick check shows that you didn’t attend public school “Hackley School is a private college preparatory school located in Tarrytown, New York and is a member of the Ivy Preparatory School League”
    Not that one must to offer criticism, of course, but your scolding tone on this topic combined with your personal and professional history (your classic thoughts on the Boston Busing still make me cringe) make you pretty easy to dismiss.

  • sarah0108

    Okay, I’m a teacher too and I think Joe is right on. Teacher tenure is the wrong solution – teachers who do their jobs well should keep them, regardless of how many years they’ve been at a school. At the end of the 2007-2008 school year thousands of teachers in California lost their jobs because of budget cuts. Teacher shortage? That’s ridiculous. My school had to cut 10% of it’s teaching staff because there wasn’t enough money to pay them. Veteran, tenured teachers who often did no prep work, showed movies instead of teaching, and made no connection with their students whatsoever (and didn’t care to) were kept and enthusiastic, fresh, young teachers who worked their butts off all year and had fantastic relationships with their students (thus enabling them to motivate and teach more effectively) were let go. I personally know there are hundred of out-of-work teachers inflating the ranks of substitute teachers this year. Why would someone want to go into teaching if it’s pretty much guaranteed that no matter how hard you work or how successful your students are, tenure is the only thing that matters when pink slips are handed out?

    I appreciate Arinkay’s points. There are already thousands of talented people in the teacher profession. Those people should be recognized and treated accordingly. Not only does Arinkay’s idea that we demand “that admin use the tools available to them to accurately evaluate teacher performance” deserve serious consideration, but hey, maybe lessen the pay disparity between teachers and administrators, too. Do we seriously believe that a superintendent deserves 4 times as much as a classroom teacher? Yes, admin should be accurately assessing teachers and without tenure they may actually be able to do something with the resulting information.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Joe I have no problem with tenure reform, or lengthening school hours and days or raising curriculum standards. However, to make any meaningful change we need the talented tenth in the classroom and they should be paid significantly more than they are being paid now.

  • formerlyrainbow68

    Joe: I would’ve been totally with you on the education a few years ago. I’ve seen teachers who can barely spell cat. Why give them tenure and make them teflon? One of my best friends and longtime stay at home mom just got her certification to teach and is teaching second grade. What a headache! Kids can call her every name in the book (It’s their culture, you see), Hit her (Couldn’t have them sued), and take abuse from the parents. Let me tell you, when you’re dealing with Moms who are 16 and have no education themselves who live with an abusive boyfriend, how can teachers undo that in 7 hours? Here in LA we’ve tried everything to get parents to come to parent-teacher conferences, even Wal-Mart gift cards. No dice. My husband and I are SACRIFICING to send our kids to a private school. Louisiana’s schools are generally: a.) low performing and/or b.) unsafe. My friend has her superiors breathing down her neck every few weeks, watching her “performance.” The curriculum is tossed every few years just to keep you on your toes. Impossible! What’s really working in New Orleans seems to be the charter schools. Those kids, generally poor African-American kids are doing great with excellent parental support. Unfortunately, it threathens the Teachers’ Unions somehow. What a colossal mess!

  • Art Pepper

    I also don’t buy the perennial teacher-shortage argument
    -
    Why don’t you buy this argument? (Another gut feeling?) My wife and I were just discussing this very point today, but in the context of adjunct faculty at community colleges.
    -
    Of course there are talented people. But if the work conditions suck, the pay is lousy, and the job has zero security, a lot of those talented people will look for other forms of employment.
    -

  • formerlyrainbow68

    Boy, Art Pepper, I sure but the teacher-shortage! I’ve heard that the average teacher in our state last 9 years before throwing in the towel. With the Boomer teachers retiring, combined with the huge millenial kids population it should get interesting.

  • jcapan

    Art–spot on picture of the adjunct life (at CCs at least), which I left behind last year after nearly 5 years. A former colleague got a tenure track slot after adjuncting for 10 years! I’d add to your roster of lousy work conditions woefully unprepared and uncommitted students. Open enrollment, whereby any and all were welcome at the two CCs I taught at in FL, irrespective of the fact that they couldn’t make their subjects and verbs agrees. They were then almost without fail passed along, regardless of progress.
    ~
    Though I have no one but myself to blame–getting a grad degree in English!! when I knew there were too many folks doing just that with a fraction of available jobs. But at 24 it was all about “the process not the product,” and ooooh, the joys of learning and literature, the love of words and a cocksure arrogance that you’ll write the great American novel. Now, pushing 40, at times, I think key-reist, I should have sold my soul and gotten an MBA. Or worse, gone into politics. So, Joe and co. yup beat up on teachers. Always an easy mark. Meanwhile, the pols and Wall St. swine churn along. And the MSM too–the diff often between teachers and the above is that we attempt to cling to our ideals, while most of you whore yours out daily.
    ~
    Now, seriously, I have to get out and enjoy the day.

  • formerlyjames

    Joe’s piece addresses the Republican response to the stimulus package in general terms, to medicaid concerns, energy, and education. Guess what the hot button issue is? Don’t even go into the teacher lounge with any critical assessment. And surely don’t even try to address parents as to best practices in education.
    .
    I have been both teacher and sub at different points in my life, and there’s not enough time or space to contain my thoughts on the matter here, other than for one little peeve, compensation. Two points. The disparity in teacher compensation accross the country would make your eyes bulge. Execssive administrator pay? Take a look at coaches, the highest paid, the least competent, and who serve the smallest portion of the student population.
    .
    I bet Joe had no idea what a hornets nest he would encounter even mentioning the word education. It’s fun the watch.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla
  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    I know the teachers’ unions have all sorts of alternative plans–peer reviews and so forth–but none are credible. It is argued that teachers may be fired unfairly. True enough. Journalists, refrigerator repair people, lawyers and chefs are fired unfairly all the time–but in the overwhelming preponderance of cases, they’re let go for good cause.

    .
    Joke Line I am calling straight up bullsh!t on this. Either provide a link to some credible source on this issue or shut the phuck up about it because you don’t have a frikkin clue. There is a reason why teachers had to unionize in the first damn place. The pittance that they are paid now would be even worse without unions and the only way to offset the anemic pay levels is through tenure. Even if in theory you raise the pay scale if you take away tenure then what you will find like in any bottom line corporation is that when its time for teachers to get a raise because of years of service their ass will be shown the door. It is amazing how journalists try to come off like they know everything about everything only to expose that mostly they don’t know sh!t except what is spoon fed to them. I tell you what Joke Line, how about you give up your retirement plan and your contract with Time magazine and just work paycheck to paycheck so you can see what it feels like to be a teacher without tenure knowing that you could be fired any day no matter what. At least you would have the money to go elsewhere to work. Where does a teacher who is fired from a school system do? Just pack up and go?And what happens to their retirement? How many teachers will be fired just shy of being vested for their pensions in a cost cutting move?
    .
    Its better to be silent and thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

  • arinkay

    James,
    .
    You seem to enjoy stirring hornets’ nests a bit yourself.
    .
    Joe criticized teachers (not school systems, not administrators, not boards of ed). He mentioned health care and energy. I suspect that is why the reaction is bent towards the teacher piece. (I’m not even going to call it the education piece, because it was pretty narrowly focused.)
    .
    When one diminishes a group of people whole cloth, it can’t be fair. Kind of like your dismissal of coaches. I know some very poorly compensated ones that do great work.
    .
    And I don’t get what your point is re: disparity in pay across regions. The cost of living varies a bit, too.

  • formerlyjames

    arinkay, points well taken. I don’t do justice in my appraisal of coaches as it is a narrow view of a small region. The disparity in compensation I mention is derived from meeting a teacher from rural NY who retired with $100,000. per year. Where he retired to, average working teacher pay is about $40,000 per year.
    .
    As I implied, education is a big topic and I was a fool to enter the fray with my own prejuticed notions.

  • stuartzechman

    Either provide a link to some credible source on this issue or shut the phuck up about it because you don’t have a frikkin clue.
    .
    Joe Klein:
    .
    I have to agree with sgwhiteinfla on this point.
    .
    You haven’t laid out a compelling case, you’ve made a grand assertion for which you’ve provided no source.
    .
    Journalists, refrigerator repair people, lawyers and chefs are fired unfairly all the time–but in the overwhelming preponderance of cases, they’re let go for good cause.
    .
    How do you know this, Joe Klein?
    .
    You may have heard about it: We here in the hinterland have been rather unimpressed as of late with the claims to meritocracy of certain industries…journalism especially comes to mind for some reason.
    .
    We can’t really make out why some people find themselves out of work, and yet others manage to retain their positions (some even publicizing their termination-worthy offenses every six months).
    .
    It seems to be a matter of faith with you, Joe, that those who lose their jobs should lose their jobs. Unfortunately for the folks in my industry (Technology), a lot of people have lost their jobs simply because they lived in the United States.
    .
    It’s important that you understand that, at least for a lot of people in this country right now, their employment reality has nothing to do whatsoever with meritocracy –and your attitude of “justice usually prevails” sounds very much like owner/management ideology.
    .
    You should be especially careful in these times not to adopt an arrogant, self-satisfied tone, Joe Klein, because it’s not very far from those who don’t have jobs usually don’t deserve them to I’m obviously deserving of my job. That’s not a tone that will resonate terribly well in a 9 point unemployment climate.
    .
    Just a thought…

  • shepherdwong

    “…one very easy step in the right direction would be to require school systems that take the federal money to abolish teacher tenure, a foolish practice that has made the firing of inept or corrupt teachers near-impossible. I know the teachers’ unions have all sorts of alternative plans–peer reviews and so forth–but none are credible.”
    .
    Tell it to the AMA. Their hacks are killing people. Literally, by the tens of thousands.
    .
    And stop pissing on working people. You and your corporatist pals don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Just a bunch self-serving rationalization about how to address the “education problem” – why isn’t it ever the architects, administrators and managers, you know, the people with all of the power who make all of the important decisions?

    “Journalists…are fired unfairly all the time–but in the overwhelming preponderance of cases, they’re let go for good cause.”
    .
    I think our problem at the moment is a lot of unanswered good cause.

  • arinkay

    James –

    North/south pay disparity is crazy. My first job was in NC and paid less than half of what I make now. And I felt rich.
    .
    Not too many people retire from MS to CT, do they?

  • sfgeek

    I completely agree on eliminating tenure, and there’s nothing that Obama could do that would demonstrate more pragmatic distance from traditional Democratic pressure groups than this. Attaching this to funding public education to a reasonable level would be a win/win.

    My wife recently left the teaching profession after 9 years in California public schools. There were several reasons, but one of the largest was the effects of teacher tenure. She spent her last two years as department chair, during which she recruited and mentored a intelligent, vivacious, and extremely effective Stanford grad who wanted to give back to her community instead of reaching for the financial brass ring. This young woman was well liked by her colleagues, students, and parents, and received only the highest scores on her evaluations by the administration and my wife.

    Of course, who was the first to go when budget cuts hit? Who kept his job? A teacher in the department who’s teaching style earned him the nickname Mr. Video by the rest of the certificated staff, and who’s biggest contribution to the classroom was letting students off 15 minutes early to beat the traffic at the end of the day.

    Tenure needs to die. Every day it exists hurts students and turns concerned parents against the political class that supports it. I hope Obama is smart enough to realize this.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Yeah because one guy is lazy in one school in the country we should jettison tenure and all would be well. Thats a bunch of bullsh!t. You want to know why? Because that Stanford grad wasn’t the first and won’t be the last teacher to eschew big money to give back to the community. And guess what, many of them actually make it to tenure also. So if you want to reform something how about reforming the evaluation of teachers BEFORE they reach tenure status. Otherwise you are just sprouting propaganda.

  • shepherdwong

    “…who was the first to go when budget cuts hit? Who kept his job? A teacher in the department who’s teaching style earned him the nickname Mr. Video…”
    .
    Gosh, one piece of politically secure dead wood in an organization of dozens. That would never happen anywhere but in public schools, certainly not the typical company. Nobody likes this sh*t, in your own company or your kid’s public school – consider the possibility that there are just more jobs to be done than there are competent, motivated people (and if you were thinking you were living in some sort of meritocracy, look who’s at the top). But attacking unions and their autonomy couldn’t be a more tired and obvious corporatist “solution” to a much bigger and more complex problem.

  • Art Pepper

    jcapan – my wife teaches adult ed, so her students are very motivated, at least. They don’t have to be there, and in fact most of them have full-time jobs.
    -
    I’m ambivalent about tenure, but it’s also one of the few financial incentives for teachers. Attacking tenure seems kind of like carping about the “$70/hour” that auto workers allegedly earn. As shepherdwong said, the problems are much bigger, and blaming labour is easy. Not that I have the answers.

  • jcapan

    Adult ed–that’s almost like saying you teach elementary school. “You mean your students like you and are happy to come to class!” Albeit rare, my adult returnees were among my best–partly due to the field. Connecting to lit or crafting meaning about the world (comp) is much easier when you have some life experience under your belt. This was also true of most of my ESL students. Ironically, they received far & away superior educations in their developing nations. And I don’t just mean grammar or the like–they were engaging, mature, outside of themselves, and disciplined, critical thinkers in a way that my home-grown Americans almost never were. Bottom line? In Florida at least, despite the sign out front, it wasn’t college. The average AA holder there has what I’d deem a 9th grade education in the real world.
    ~
    So, while my sympathies are with my former colleagues and students, I also understand the frustrations of taxpayers who bring in the HS or CC grad for an interview and are simply aghast at their abilities. What I rarely hear educators or politicians talk about on either side of these debates is about the only answer I could come up with in the end–parenting. And you can imagine why that doesn’t come up v. much–not the best vote-getter. Who wants to tell a voter or an overly empowered parent that they’re dropping the ball at home–that not only is Jr. rarely prepared, but he’s also pretty self-absorbed and wholly lacking in discipline, or that’s he’s been passed along by other teachers unable to fail everyone they should fail and that he’s grades ahead of his abilities. I didn’t see parents at the “college” level, thank god, but I don’t think kids (on their own) or teachers have changed over the years. I think the difference is in parenting. Whereas even 30 years ago, if my elementary school teacher had a beef with me, paddled me etc. (and it happened in my public school numerous times–70s/early 80s), my mom was not ready to condemn or sue–she simply and rightfully assumed I was being a sh1t. It’s easy to blame unions, teachers, politicians, christ, even the kids, but the problem with education is parenting. Elect whoever you want–throw money around, whatever, that’s not going to improve Billy’s test scores. In other words, the black community BHO sternly rebuked ain’t the only group needing a stern lecture.
    ~
    That’s not to make light of underfunded schools, lack of safety, or the rare cases when bad teachers are in the classroom. But IMHO the system is broke at a far more fundamental level. And you can’t teach or legislate your way out of that box.

  • sfgeek

    shepherdwong, if the Principal had been
    a) judged on the performance of his teachers and
    b) empowered to decide who stays and who goes
    then, it this case, the students would have been better served. There are lots of great teachers, and a lot of them I’ve met would happily get rid of tenure in return for being treated like real professionals in other ways (useless in-service day lectures, lawsuit happy parents, etc…).

    But nice use of the word corporatist to distract from the issue! Because Wall Street banks screwed up, nobody should be fired anywhere, ever! That’s “progressive!”

  • trifecta55

    Elvis is quite right. When Bill Kristol can get consecutive jobs at Time, NY Times, and Washington Post with his track record, pundits should not be allowed to complain about tenure.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Isn’t tenure a result of contract negotiations? That is to say the teachers gave up something in a trade off for it.
    .
    Also comparing public education with a private industry bailout seems off.

  • 53_3

    Joe:
    .
    We’ve been told how corrupt and inefficient government is, and how, on the other hand, how efficient and swift the Free Market (kneel and cross your heart when you read these words…) is, yet, doesn’t it seem that the uh shoe has been on the other foot lately?
    .
    And how would you propose to change union contracts anyway to eliminate the tenure clauses? Bust more unions? More voodoo Reaganomics?
    .
    Otherwise, I entirely agree with you that the Medicare and Medicaid issues should be addressed when enough policial capital is made to implement UHC.

  • 53_3

    “…Because Wall Street banks screwed up.”
    .
    They aren’t the only thing that screwed up. The entire economic system is built on a house of cards and deregulation brought these things about.

  • destor23

    When school’s want money, teachers have to make sacrifices, it seems. But we still haven’t seen Wall St. execs give up a single thing. Before we ask our teachers to gives up their job security (and tenure does serve some good purposes like supporting academic freedom) we can at least ask get some concessions from the uber wealthy welfare queens of high finance.

  • plukasiak

    a couple of points –
    1) Joe wants the same far right wing demagogues who have successfully taken over many school boards to be in charge of hiring and firing teachers. Tenure may not be a perfect system, but it beats turning our classrooms into the eductional equivalent of the Bush Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division.
    _
    2) Those who support Klein here pretty much say the same thing “when the budget cuts hit, the “good teachers” are the ones to go. So isn’t the real question why our children’s education are subject to the vagueries of economic cycles?
    _
    3) Want to fix the tenure problem? Allow and/or require teachers to retire after 20 years of service. Sure, it will cost more, but its the right solution.

  • 53_3

    “Sure, it will cost more, but its the right solution.”
    .
    To put this in perspective, considering the perks and all provided by our graciously generous predecessors in office:
    .
    How many teachers could have gotten raises from the spoils Madoff made off with?
    .
    For that matter, how many teachers could have gotten raises from the $20,000,000,000* the bank CEOs handed themselves in the last couple weeks?
    .
    *tip of the iceberg stuff, here

  • towandavt

    “I do agree with Caldwell, as a general matter, on the need to exclude Medicaid expansion from the stimulus bill.”

    Joe, I’m sure you don’t GET this because your employed and getting a great deal of money and benefits to bloviate about these matters in public. So let me give you some insight about this. I am 60 and just lost my job after 14 years managing a public service. My organization is OUT of business and therefore I am not even eligible for COBRA. No plan, no COBRA. My $425.00 unemployment payment puts me over the limit for any state subsisidized insurance and the cost of buying a separate policy is over $600 a month. And, well you do the math, not much left to eat let alone include a roof over my head and heat here in the NE. If I get sick, I am up the proverbial creek. I, dear Joe, would be one of those who might benefit along with a few million of my nearest and dearest who have also become unemployed recently, from the proposed “Medicaid” expanision. We can’t wait a few years to sort this out. We need this help now and the states need this help NOW. Wake Up!

  • stuartzechman

    Great comment, Oregon JC.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    sfgeek says
    .

    shepherdwong, if the Principal had been
    a) judged on the performance of his teachers and
    b) empowered to decide who stays and who goes
    then, it this case, the students would have been better served. There are lots of great teachers, and a lot of them I’ve met would happily get rid of tenure in return for being treated like real professionals in other ways (useless in-service day lectures, lawsuit happy parents, etc…).
    .
    But nice use of the word corporatist to distract from the issue! Because Wall Street banks screwed up, nobody should be fired anywhere, ever! That’s “progressive!”

    .
    So you are saying Principals, many of whom never spend one day of their lives teaching a classrooms nowadays, should be the judge jury and executioner of every teacher on their staff. And who exactly watches the principal? Maybe your wife should have stayed in Education a little longer because neither of you obviously learned a damn thing. Look at the mythical Michelle Rhee who has thrown the DC system into chaos with her bullsh*t “Teach for America” moves, firing not only competent teachers but also competent principals. Now if you want to talk about something not being progressive I can’t think of anything higher on the list than being anti union and anti tenure since that is something that was granted in a negotiation with unions in lieu of higher pay. Now the thing you and the people like you will never address is how many bad teachers actually make it to tenure. Most of them are weeded out pretty early on because teaching isn’t exactly a job for fat cats or for the faint of heart. If you teach for over 20 years more often than not its because you are motivated to help kids learn. Yes every once in awhile you have someone who is lazy that slips through the cracks but do your really want to take back years worth of negotiations and the prospect of financial stability later on in life for the overwhelming majority of teachers that do make tenure? Give me a break. Thats about the most regressive crock of bullsh!t I have ever heard. And don’t be surprised when you start treating schools like a business that the teachers don’t start getting screwed just like Wal Mart employees.

  • iwasindependent

    People need to understand that “teacher tenure” is a misnomer- a result of anti-union word play. What teachers have is a due process after 2-3 years if they need to be removed. Why do so many bad teachers stay? Administrators are too lazy or overworked to do anything about it. Good administrators put in the work and effort for their kids if they truly believe in their mission- that’s why they’re paid more!
    .
    BTW Joe, if you have a problem with peer review (which has proven successful in Finland), you may want to warn SecEd Duncan before it is too late!
    .
    http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2006/01/25/20chicago.h25.html
    .

  • towandavt

    I am not a teacher, but I would like to add for good measure here that I am very tired of seeing teachers used as the whipping-boys(girls) for every social ill. Our schools are underfunded. State and local governments can’t afford the cost of new technology, updating infrastructure and meeting the expense of federal mandates for special education, to name one item addressed in the Bill. Part of the stimulus package attempts to fill the gap in funding for special ed which might have the affect of putting money back in local taxpayer’s pockets (local shcool board’s be warned that the infustion of cash should be used to offset current costs, not create new programming). That’s a tax cut and a stimulus. Do we need a fresh look at our educational system and how we ultimate pay for it? Sure, but let’s get back to the primary purpose of the legislation…stop the death spiral then figure out how to fix all the problems that conservative philosphy has left in its wake. These are the folks who could have used a few lessons and obviously weren’t paying attention in class!

  • sfgeek


    So you are saying Principals, many of whom never spend one day of their lives teaching a classrooms nowadays

    What? Maybe things are different where you live, but every Principal and Asst/Vice Principal I’ve met at public schools used to be in the classroom. There is a valid argument about the types of people that trade the classroom experience for more money and less student contact, but I find it suspect that you claim that administrators have no classroom experience. Where is this?

    Now the thing you and the people like you will never address is how many bad teachers actually make it to tenure.

    I think the problem is less “bad teachers making it through the 3 years to tenure” and more about the system wearing down good teachers until they lose some of the spark that drove them to the profession. Teachers go through so much unnecessary BS that I’m amazed anybody makes it pass the first year. For example, in our area it’s trendy for upper-middle-class white parents to freak out about their child’s performance and instantly turn it into a “disability”. They use laws meant to protect truly disabled children into clubs that they use to beat the teacher until they get the special exceptions or grades they want. Parent-student conferences shouldn’t require both sides to bring their lawyers, but many in California do.

    Tenure is the other side of this puzzle. Combine lots of humiliating BS with a lack of real incentives to self-improve, and I think most people would lose track of what their job really entails. Every other profession has competition from the younger folks to motivate people to stay on their toes, and you haven’t made any arguments why teaching should be different.

  • Cliff

    If there is going to be a bailout of inner city education, the schools should face the same sort of government nudge toward best practices that the automakers are getting.
    .
    Best practices would include, IMHO, paying teachers enough, getting more of them in there, and revamping completely how they are allowed to interact with the students.

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