Your New Faith-Based Office

George W. Bush may have left the building, but the the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives isn’t going anywhere. It’s just being reinvented. In the middle of the presidential campaign last summer, Barack Obama surprised a lot of people from both parties when he announced that the faith-based office not only wouldn’t be eliminated in the Obama Administration but would be expanded. “It never fulfilled its promise,” said Obama, noting that funds for social service programs had been slashed over eight years and the office had been used more for political purposes.

As the first step toward remaking the faith-based effort, Obama has asked Joshua DuBois, who was the director of religious affairs for the presidential campaign, to head the White House office. (An official announcement is expected next week.) The appointment of the 26 year-old, who is also ordained as a pastor in the Assemblies of God denomination, was anticipated inside the religious community and had led to grumbling by a number of faith leaders who worried that DuBois’ age would encourage critics to charge that Obama wasn’t taking faith-based issues seriously.

But DuBois won over a number of skeptics through his work on the transition, which involved unprecedented outreach and inclusion of religious leaders and organization across the ideological and interfaith spectra. Many of those leaders have also told me they feel more confident about DuBois and about the seriousness with which the concerns of the faith community will be considered in the Obama White House because of the presence of Melody Barnes, Obama’s Domestic Policy Council director. In her previous job at the Center for American Progress, Barnes was responsible for developing the Center’s Faith and Progressive Policy project and has long advocated for partnerships between political progressives and faith communities.

However, the White House is reportedly concerned that the appointment of DuBois to a position previously held by heavyweights like the University of Pennsylvania’s John DiIulio and Jim Towey, who had a long political resume including a stint as director of Florida’s HHS, could cause problems. So White House aides have been working this week to pull together a Religious Policy Council made up of leaders from a broad range of religious traditions who would advise the White House not just on issues like religious liberty and faith-based initiatives, but on broader policy matters as well. They are still hammering out the right model–less like the Council of Economic Advisors and more like the President’s Council on Bioethics–but the council will be rolled out at the same time that DuBois’ appointment is announced.

The White House is planning on retaining the faith-based centers currently housed at 11 federal agencies. But there are plans to expand the White House office–tentatively called the Office on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships–to encompass the work traditionally done by religious outreach staff in the Public Liaison Office. Again, the details are still being hammered out, but it looks like the faith-based office will try to blend outreach with a focus on the initiative created by Bush.

Given the goals Obama set out for the office last summer, including the development of a system for assessing and tracking the effectiveness of programs that receive federal grants, and the political challenge of eliminating Bush’s executive order exempting religious organizations from non-discrimination laws, this could pose some significant challenges for DuBois and his colleagues. I’ll have more on that soon in a Time.com story.

Related Topics: Uncategorized
  • Latest on Swampland

    Ben Garvin / The New York Times / Redux

    Political Pictures of the Week, Feb. 4-10

    TIME’s photo editors bring you the best pictures of the past week from the Beltway and beyond.

    Romney: I Was A 'Severely Conservative' GovernorHuffPost Politics

    Jim Bourg / Reuters

    At CPAC, Romney Stresses Conservative Credentials

    Three days after a trifecta of losses underlined lingering questions about his ability to win over the Republican Party’s base, Mitt Romney arrived at CPAC to allay skeptics’ fears. Throughout his second bid for the GOP nomination, Romney has made his business bona fides the centerpiece of his candidacy. But on Friday, before a packed room at the annual conservative confab, he sought to emphasize the record he compiled in Massachusetts. “I was a severely conservative governor,” he told the crowd. “I know conservatism, because I have lived conservatism.” 

  • FlownOver

    Take your time.

  • Friar Tuck

    I’ll say it again:
    .
    Please keep government out of religion. They can’t be trusted with each other.

  • sacredh

    I’m still hoping for a Faithless-Based iniative program. We did get a shout out during his inauguaral address you know. As part of the vast heathen horde, we have been ignored for far too long. The chrisitians have been carrying off the booty for years. I want what’s behind door #3.

  • stuartzechman

    …the concerns of the faith community will be considered in the Obama White House…
    .
    Which faith community?
    .
    Mormons?
    .
    Muslims?
    .
    Roman Catholics?
    .
    Pentecostals?
    .
    I hadn’t realized that there was such broad consensus amongst all of these organizations with respect to their “concerns”.
    .
    Or is there some other faith community of which I’m unaware, Amy Sullivan?
    .
    What are you talking about?

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Amy why is the point of your stories so often about the players rather than the game? Sometimes I get the impression that you and your colleagues would rather be political strategists. If so there’s nothing stopping you from becoming a political consultant. However, if that’s not the case then tell me about the differences between Obama’s faith based initiatives office and Bush’s. What are the policy expectations, because its my impression that for Bush it was all show. What are the faith communities expecting.

  • 53_3

    At least, lets get this thing away from the politicos and the likes of crackhead mullahs like Pat Robertson and the Immoral Minority (used to call themselves the Moral Majority or some such).
    .
    Let the 700 club raise their own money if they want to continue propagandizing for the GOP.
    .
    BTW, when you religious crackpots leave, see ya!
    .
    And good riddance

  • Cliff

    which involved unprecedented outreach and inclusion of religious leaders and organization across the ideological and interfaith spectrum
    .
    I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that this means Baptists, Lutherans, Pentacostals, Episcopalians and Catholics.

  • Cliff

    The Catholics might be stretching it, I should have wrote Jehovah’s Witnesses instead.

  • sacredh

    I’m not a christian but I’m not anti-christian either. I do agree with Friar Tuck though. If your faith is important to you, why on earth would you ever want something as dysfunctional as the federal government involved with your faith in any way?

  • http://twitter.com/pourmecoffee pourmecoffee

    Replace “faith” with “community” and have at it.

  • http://policingwingnutwelfare.blogspot.com/ JJ

    One of my favorite Radio Open Source programs from a while ago on Roger Williams (seems like the type of thing Amy would be into):
    .
    http://www.radioopensource.org/what-would-roger-williams-say-and-do/
    .
    I especially like the distinction between “purpose” and “conscience.” I’m fully in the conscience camp.

  • Friar Tuck

    Cliff,

    I think you have it upside down, unfortunately(?). The old Main-Line denominations have completely dropped out of the equation. We had our seat at the table of power in the ’50s and ’60s, but that’s pretty much over now.
    .
    To me, that’s a good thing – we sold our souls for a mess of pottage, but that generation is dying off. Unfortunately, the “head office” hasn’t adjusted to this (in the main – I’m making hysterically broad generalizations here, my bad) and still wants to regain some of its political muscle, which ain’t gonna happen.
    .
    Unfortunately, Amy is still looking at things from the point of view of the “head office.”

  • Friar Tuck

    Clarification:
    .
    I define “Main-Line” as the list Cliff gives above, plus Catholics, minus Pentacostals. Agruments about this, of course abound, and nobody cares.

  • Friar Tuck

    “Agruments”? Arrgghhh.

  • Cliff

    Friar Tuck – I was making an obscure point that I wasn’t sure anyone was going to get.
    .
    It seems to me that whenever someone like Amy starts talking about broad spectrums of religious practices, they mean Protestantism, Catholicism, and Judaism, and that’s about it. So I’m saying that her ‘rainbow of belief’ probably has six WASPs and a dude in a yamaka.

  • Friar Tuck

    Oops, I left out the Methodists and the UCC. It’s a good thing I’m using a pseudonym.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    I don’t have a problem with faith organizations getting funds to help the homeless and the hungry. There are plenty of community based programs in the basements of churches that help everyday people facing tough times that could use these funds. So many times when people need help they fall outside the guidelines, as if you make a dollar more than the poverty line you are in much better shape. But in the community where they know your name and your kids and you can’t pay your light bill, put oil in your furnace or buy your kid a new coat they aren’t going to turn you away because of that dollar and that’s the difference these kinds of organizations make. They have the ability to take a more holistic approach.
    .
    The only fear I have is if there are no government alternatives and all you have is faith based services and some might feel coerced into joining in order to be served. Yes that would be a problem.

  • Friar Tuck

    @cliff -

    I read you now, and I think you’re spot-on.
    .
    I think my comment stands, though, to the extent that Amy’s view of what “protestantism” means is not only too monolithic, but seriously out of date. The six WASPS are probably all Evangelicals and Non-Denominationals.

  • jcapan

    Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that AS is not so concerned about the separation of C&S? That politicians involving themselves in religion and vice versa is, like, the primary rationale for her job.
    ~
    El pres. sadly deserves any excoriation he gets on this. Playing the game to get elected, fine, but once elected … But I’m a dirty nihilist/agnostic.
    ~
    And Stuart, et al, your use of the 2nd person in addressing Amy is in jest? Has she EVER responded to commentary? After all, when you’re on the end of the line with liquid Jesus, can one be expected to consort with the laity?

  • Aaron

    the political challenge of eliminating Bush’s executive order exempting religious organizations from non-discrimination laws

    Which religious organizations want to discriminate and want federal funding to support those efforts? I am aware that some mainline Christian churches, including the United Methodist Church and the American Baptist Church, spoke out against George Bush issuing that provision in the first place.
    .
    .
    .
    (FYI: the United Methodist Church is the second largest Protestant denomination in the US, and the third largest Christian denomination. Southern Baptist Convention is #2 and the Catholic Curch is #1.)

  • formerlyrainbow68

    After Katrina,while local, state, and federal government authorities were trying to figure out what to do, 18 wheelers from religious groups from all over – I know of Baptists, Presbyterians, Operation Blessing (700 Club), Catholic Charities came rolling into South Louisiana and Mississippi and the people were so touched. I’m sure there were other denominations. There was lots of food and other supplies donated from these groups. Mostly it was volunteers. High school and college kids decided to forego their spring breaks to help rebuild. In addition to other things it donated, I have to say one of the strangest things I heard of was 700 Club putting mosquito-eating fish in festering swimming pools! I think if we could harness this generosity, maybe something good could come out of it. I glad President Obama wants to do this. What do y’all think?

  • Friar Tuck

    I have to imagine that other graduates of Harvard Divinity would be gibbering with rage at the some of the stuff that AS posts if they bothered to go on Swampland at all. She sure enough drives me nuts, and I set on a much less lofty perch.
    .
    [Insert mental image of Porky Pig as Friar Tuck lounging on a tree limb]

  • Cliff

    rainbow68 – I think it’s not a bad idea. Seems like, according to a few things I’ve read, there’s been a shift in younger Christians that puts a greater emphasis on charity and taking care of the Earth.
    I’m not sure how much weight to place on those reports, but they seem like good signs at the least.

  • Aaron

    I think those groups did not need to discriminate to help people.

  • stuartzechman

    Oregon JC:
    .
    I started out that way with all of the Swampland posters…

  • Friar Tuck

    formerlyrainbow,
    .
    What faith-based organizations did after Katrina was marvelous – let me add in a shout-out to Lutheran Disaster Response – and I maintain that they were able to do this precisely because they acted without reference to the government which, as we recall, f@cked up pretty much everything they touched.
    .
    “Harnessing” actually does get done by a number of ecumenical organizations that keep a pretty low profile for the most part. Could we do better than we do? Certainly. But Heckuva Job Brownie is just what we don’t need, IMO.

  • sacredh

    Cliff: I have a son attending Franciscan University and that indeed is the case. What the university teaches and what the younger Christians are taking away are pretty much different things. It’s less preparing for an imminent Rapture and more preserving the patures.

  • Friar Tuck

    Above comment should read “Some harnessing”. Brain fingers not talk each other good now.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    I will know that Obama takes outreach to all faiths seriously when he opens the liason office for Pastafarians and helps us lobby for the declaration of Dress Like A Pirate day as a proper Federal Holiday.
    .
    Until then, I know his efforts at inclusion will inevitably fall short.

  • formerlyrainbow68

    Friar Tuck: The Lutherans, of course. I knew I’d forget someone! Are you concerned that if government is thrown in, the purity of the response will be compromised? Or maybe regulations will weigh them down?

    I DO see a difference in the younger Christians as a whole. The 90s seemed to be a decade of money, accumulation, and greed. Wear this shoe, that purse, have stock options. They had all kinds of expensive things thrown at them, and are disillusioned with things. They really want authenticity. Many of them are at a place it took me 36 years to get to!

    Cliff seems to be with me on giving this a chance. Curious to hear your answers to these, Friar Tuck.

  • sqr1

    What is faith? It is a belief in something for which there is no evidence. That isn’t an atheist’s criticism. It is the very definition of faith. But shouldn’t government programs be based on…evidence?
    .
    Now, I have no problem with community organizations assisting the government (or vice versa) to solve social problems. And if those community organizations happen to be based on religion then that is fine. I just don’t understand why the federal government feels a need to officially approach them in their religious, rather than social welfare, capacities. Why can’t it just be the Office of Community Affairs or something?

  • sqr1

    My prediction is that Obama is going to get screwed on the fased-based stuff. As soon as some Wiccan organization sues the administration, the wingnuts will be all over him for Democratic “hypocracy” and Obama’s not going to get a hell of a lot of support from Democrats who like their state separated from their religion.

  • sacredh

    sqr1: Your comment about the Wiccans could very well come true and bite Obama on the ass. If the program truly is inclusive, how could he justify denying a recognized religion (although hardly mainstream) the same opportunity (read cash)? It would never have been a problem with the prior administration because the definition of religion was much more narrow to them. If the Muslims would start getting funds and even $1 of that money found it’s way to terrorists, the screaming from the right would make Jamie Lee Curtis look like a piker.

  • formerlyrainbow68

    First of all: What the heck is a piker? I may not want to know!

    I am a Christian, but if Wiccans want to feed the homeless, clothe the poor, what’s the big deal?

    The Muslim thing is a slippery slope. It’s a shame, too. Most are good people.

  • formerlyjames

    Obama, who I fully support is the master politician, and the faith deal seems to be the best ride in town since the Repubs obscenely and unhollily took it hostage. But, if Obama looses my support, so far, it is likely to be this. Leave this slippery slope. Establish an Office of Separation of Church and State. Address the economy, foreign policy, public secular education, health care, on, on, on, not faith. Provide for congregations of like thinking spiritual people to have the ability to tithe for faith programs. Leave government out out out of it.

  • Friar Tuck

    formerlyrainbow,
    .
    Kids absolutely are our future. It was good to hear sacredh about that, too, and of course not just Christian kids – I tend to focus on Christianity because I’m up to my neck in it, not because it’s the only important thing.
    .
    It took me about 36 years too, BTW, and still working on it.
    .
    If there is a way for government to open a path for the church to better help those whom the church identifies as being in need, then I’m all for it, provided that the government sends the help without involving itself in the delivery. But I don’t think it’s possible for government and religion to work together on that basis without waste and corruption taking over.
    .
    In the abstract the idea is attractive, but in the concrete it poses at least as many problems as it solves. The government is going to want some measure of control over its investment, and churches’ decisions about what they do and do not want to do won’t always be acceptable to the government.

  • jcapan

    “The Muslim thing is a slippery slope. It’s a shame, too. Most are good people.”
    ~
    What exactly is a shame? And could you define most? Perhaps relative to our other major religions–are most Christians, Hinduists etc. good people? For those Muslims who are not good people, is it due to Islam or some other factors? If a “Christian” is an utter SOB or saint is it due to his/her faith? Cuz, in general, I gotta tell ya, the above language, merely careless or not, reeks of condescension.

  • formerlyjames

    jcapan, the slippery slope is injecting religion of whatever persuasion into our secular democracy which defends freedom of religion and freedom from religion.
    .
    Friar, I agree with your view. I am a victim of 7 years of religious education. I curse it to this day in my old age. My well intended parents, who paid tuition for those 7 years in spite of having free secular public education, which I preferred, available, might have instilled in me more anti-religion than I would have otherwise had.
    .
    No snark. I agree with what you say.

  • sacredh

    formerlyjames: A piker is an amateur. Having lived in a rural area for over 40 years has resulted in my using local expressions far too often. I’d never heard the expression before I moved here either. My bad. I would like to make clear that I have nothing at all against Muslims, Wiccans or just about any other group. I used those as examples of groups that could give the wingnuts (OK,I really don’t like them) ammunition agaist President Obama. I truly belive that when government mixes with religion that it diminishes both. Government can’t afford to be diminished any further.

  • Joe Bftsplk

    What Dee said at 7:47:
    .
    The only fear I have is if there are no government alternatives and all you have is faith based services and some might feel coerced into joining in order to be served. Yes that would be a problem.
    .
    Thanks!

  • Joe Bftsplk

    IIRC, I think the term “piker” comes from medieval warfare. There was the cavalry, and the archers, and the footsoldiers, and then the poor pikers. Their weapon was the pike, a long spear with its back end stuck in the ground, and the business end pointing at the oncoming cavalry. Their mission was to poke the knights off their horses, or at least spear their horses on the way by. Presumably sometimes it worked, but I think the consequences for failing were probably pretty severe.
    The term indicates derision for their lack of skills, and probably for their station in life (you can imagine where the recruits were drawn from). Hence the modern connotation of an amateur. Still, seems like it would take more than a touch of courage to stand your ground.
    Now maybe I’ll go look this up and see if I’m right…

  • Joe Bftsplk

    OK, I can find no confirmation for my theory, elegant as it may be.
    I cede the podium to those who know what they’re talking about now.

  • sacredh

    Joe Bftsplk: Thanks for that information. I’d never really given much thought to the origins of that expression. The people around here have so many that I wasn’t familiar with when I moved into this area. They must be the descendents of either historians or pikers.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    No more separation of church and hate?

    Some change, that one.

  • sacredh

    I like your explanation. I prefer it the possibility that my neighbors just make words up. Since I use those words now myself…I prefer the explanation you provided.

  • formerlyrainbow68

    jcapan: I should have been clearer. Someone had previously posted that if a Muslim charity that was a prop used to get money for terrorism was discovered, everyone would go berserk. I commented that that was a shame, because I believe most of these Muslim charities probably do a lot of good.

  • formerlyjames

    Joe B., you sure held my attention. I will go with that true or not. Either way, coming up with it off the top of your head should surely qualify you for some position on Wall Street or Madison Ave. Salary plus bonus.

  • sacredh

    formerlyrainbow68: I believe that was me you are referring to. My post wasn’t as clear as I had thought. I did mean just what you said, that if a Muslim organization did funnel any money to terrorists that everyone would go beserk. Even a legitimate organization can unknowingly supply money to groups or individuals that misrepresent themselves. Of course there can also be front organizations. I wasn’t trying to be condescending towards Muslims. The lack of clarity was unintentional.

  • Joe Bftsplk

    Etymological fiction, hmmm. Think I could get a book deal?

  • sacredh

    Joe: If Palin can get a book deal, you surely deserve one.

  • wenu

    “and the political challenge of eliminating Bush’s executive order exempting religious organizations from non-discrimination laws” . . . Faith based organisations, regardless of their community outreach activities, HAVE to exercise discretion in their avowed membership. Bush basically seems to have been only supporting this commonsense proposition. The ‘political challenge’ of allowing different ‘faiths’ and groups to determine the teachings and values of ‘opposition faiths’????? Spare me.
    Then the Muslims. There are good people of all Faiths? Regardless of Faith, believers and non-believers are all People. The extent to which individuals and groups are manipulated depends on many things including ‘media interest’. WE (we are nice) believe in individual freedoms. Others believe they are right and we should be coerced (prevented) into not doing what they feel is wrong. Check out the track-records on groups with seemingly vested interests and you will find WE are more interested in paying off our mortgages, health insurance and kids’ education. WE are a nice group. Some are not. Those who are not have insisted in the past that we must kill them. Their bad. – to coin a banal Americanism heheh

  • feng94

    The nation is still divided over thousand issues. To get this country recovered, Mr President surely would and need to do things to minimize the chances to further divide the country. This one belongs to this category. The reporter definitely missed point, so are the bloggers.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    No more separation of church and hate?
    .
    Leave it to QH, for whom hate is indeed a religion…….

  • stuartzechman

    …issues like religious liberty…
    .
    Amy Sullivan:
    .
    I wasn’t aware that religious liberty was an issue in the United States of America.
    .
    Are you referring to “religious liberty” issues in, say, Saudi Arabia…or Afghanistan?

  • Art Pepper

    noting that [...] the office had been used more for political purposes.
    -
    This is why you keep the state out of religion. It doesn’t matter how fine the intentions are. It’s never good in the long run.

  • mmchampion

    ArtPepper,

    Perhaps it’s good in the short term?
    .
    After Katrina, people of all religions were hurting and faith-based organizations helped them. How many jobs were lost this month? 100,000 from the latest tally on the news.
    .
    I don’t think it’s what the country should rely on for the long term, but anything that helps people deal with the current economic crisis, I just can’t think of it as a bad thing. Of course, ask me again in a few years when our economy is stronger…

  • plukasiak

    This would be a good thing if the only people Obama appointed to his “council” were those whose sole emphasis was on the church as a means of helping the poor.
    _
    The problem is that we’re likely to see Rick Warren and his ilk as part of the “council” — legitimizing the idea that those who encourage/exploit homophobia and want to control women’s bodies deserve a place at the table.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    The problem is what happens to those organization who are dependent on fed funding when they disagree with some other fed program. The black church has been the genesis of so much political change in this country, what guarantees will we have that funding concerns won’t be used to silence those voices that may be the first to alert us to civil and human rights abuses?

  • newfloridian

    I guess it’s up to me to kill this thread..

    Give me that old time religion
    Tis the old time religion,
    Tis the old time religion,
    And it’s good enough for me.

    It was good for our mothers.
    It was good for our mothers.
    It was good for our mothers.
    And it’s good enough for me.

    Give me that old time religion
    Tis the old time religion,
    Tis the old time religion,
    And it’s good enough for me.

    Makes me love everybody.
    Makes me love everybody.
    Makes me love everybody.
    And it’s good enough for me.

    Give me that old time religion
    Tis the old time religion,
    Tis the old time religion,
    And it’s good enough for me.

    It has saved our fathers.
    It has saved our fathers.
    It has saved our fathers.
    And it’s good enough for me.

    Give me that old time religion
    Tis the old time religion,
    Tis the old time religion,
    And it’s good enough for me.

    It will do when I am dying.
    It will do when I am dying.
    It will do when I am dying.
    And it’s good enough for me.

    Give me that old time religion
    Tis the old time religion,
    Tis the old time religion,
    And it’s good enough for me.

    It will take us all to heaven.
    It will take us all to heaven.
    It will take us all to heaven.
    And it’s good enough for me.

    Give me that old time religion
    Tis the old time religion,
    Tis the old time religion,
    And it’s good enough for me.

  • sacredh

    Amen. lol

  • plukasiak

    The black church has been the genesis of so much political change in this country, what guarantees will we have that funding concerns won’t be used to silence those voices that may be the first to alert us to civil and human rights abuses?
    _
    the ‘black church’ is also responsible, in large part, for the endemic homophobia in the black community. Why should my tax dollars be given to institutions that support hate and discrimination against people like myself?

  • sacredh

    The thread has witnessed a resurrection! It’s a miracle!

    Seriously, every church and group has an agenda. Proposition 8 in California received lots of cash from the Mormons because of their opposition to gay marriage. This is just another reason why funneling money to faith based groups to carry out social programs is a bad idea. I’m not claiming that any money they got from the government was diverted to the effort to pass Prop 8, but why give government funds (tax dollars) to religious organizations to begin with? Churches have their own programs to help the needy. These are funded by the contributions from their parishoners. There should be a wall between the church and state.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    While there are some chicken and egg components to this I won’t dispute the rampant homophobia. However, I won’t dismiss their vital contribution because they are not perfect. Moreover, unlike many of our religious traditions there is work going on to eliminate homophobia systemically. While I’ve seen very little evidence of HRC’s work to combat racism within the gay community, I wouldn’t oppose them receiving my tax dollars because of their good work to promote equal rights for the LGBT community.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    every church doesn’t have the means to help their community. There are plenty of poor innercity churches who can barely keep the roof from leaking. This isn’t just a black and white issue. Unless we decide to erradicate poverty in this country we will continue to have this dilema.

  • plukasiak

    While I’ve seen very little evidence of HRC’s work to combat racism within the gay community,
    _
    find me a single gay leader of any stature who advocates racism, and you might have a point. Otherwise, you should be ashamed of yourself … and not be taken seriously by anyone.

  • stuartzechman

    Some people think that there are gay leaders who advocate racism.
    .
    Some people also think that they need to tell gay leaders to stop advocating racism.
    .
    These same folks liken anti-Prop 8 demonstrators to the KKK, however.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    I didn’t say leader but at the same token I didn’t hear all that much outrage from the gay community when the rank be file reverted to using the N word to describe those they blamed for prop 8. It seems to me that little nasty episode was forgotten pretty quickly by the larger white gay community but perhaps not the black community including those who were gay and fellow protesters. My point was that none of us are perfect and to dismiss the tradition that brought you King is kind of like throwing out the baby with the bath water. Moreover how culturally insensitive do you have to be not to recognize that the black church was the only voice for blacks until fairly recently.

  • plukasiak

    I didn’t say leader but at the same token I didn’t hear all that much outrage from the gay community when the rank be file reverted to using the N word to describe those they blamed for prop 8
    _
    The idea that “the rank and file” of gay america used “the N word” is a sign that you’re mentally ill — suffering from severe homophobia.
    _
    the fact that you would cite ONE anonymous commenter on an obscure blog who claims he was called the N word is proof of how degenerate you are. Get therapy.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    You get therapy because I don’t know what you’re even talking about. I’m not quoting some blog, perhaps that the only world you live in but I do have real live conversations with real live people.
    .
    The N-word was just one aspect, there was indeed a verbal assault against black voters for daring to vote in favor of prop 8 — and to act like this didn’t take place is absurd. After calls to cool the rhetoric from groups that interact with both communities the rhetoric calm down but that didn’t mean it didn’t happen.
    .
    I understand the gay community was deeply dissappointed and felt that black of all people should have sided with them, but the doesn’t explain the knee jerk response to be verbally abusive and dismissive of black voters.
    .
    Even now you find it awfully easy to call me names, when all I am saying is that none of us are perfect and we shouldn’t be judged in totality based on least attractive quality, unless of curse we don’t have any other qualities that redeem us.
    .
    the black church has a unique position in black culture befdcaue it was the only voice at our disposal for centuries. and until fairly recently it was the only political organizational tool open to black Americans. To imply that it should be disregarded entirely because a number (and that’s not all black denominations by any means) have yet to come around to our way of thinking is incredibly self-serving. Yes, I believe in gay rights, I also believe in nuanced arguments and I believe in making arguments rather than calling people names who have a different point of view.
    .
    And lastly, perhaps you are the one with the problem. I can completely disagree with you without having an irrational fear of you, which I believe is the definition of homophobia. Just as I don’t have to believe in organized religion, which I don’t, to recognize the cultural and political contribution of the black church both to the black community, and the world. You should ask yourself what prohibits you from walking in someone elses shoes other than your own.

  • http://thechurchofjesuschrist.wordpress.com/2009/01/31/obama-announces-new-faith-programs-chief/ Obama announces new Faith programs chief. « The Church of Jesus Christ

    [...] Swampland – TIME.com » Blog Archive Your New Faith-Based Office «. [...]

  • Art Pepper

    mmchampion: Don’t get me wrong, religious charities do a lot of great work. I just think that ultimately state interference in religion is bad for religion and bad for the state.
    -
    It might do good in the short term, but in a way, that’s all the more reason to be wary. The road to heck, and all that. Let the government be secular, and churches be religious.

  • http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/media-misstates-obama-aides-religious-ties BibleBeltBlogger » Blog Archive » Media misstates Obama aides’ religious ties

    [...] Magazine hasn’t yet figured out the difference between the two groups. [Here's their Jan. 30 [...]

  • textee

    What is the most popular religion in the Democrat party? Atheism? Paganism? Earth worshipping environmentalism? Socialism? Feminism? The “global warming” hoax? Racial tribalism? Anti-Americanism? Fundamentalist homosexualism?

  • 53_3

    Hey textee, guess what’s the most popular religion in the GOP.
    .
    It’s not very hard at all:
    .
    Grand Theft Treasury.
    .
    That is all.

  • 53_3

    I see also, textee, that your racial knards are showing. Is it because you guys assauged your guilty conscience over Southern Strategy and the fact that the Black Community kicked your collective asses in the last election that you took your stap off?
    .
    Go learn civil rights from a real expert…

  • textee

    53_3 Says:
    Sunday, February 1, 2009 at 10:20 am
    “Hey textee, guess what’s the most popular religion in the GOP.
    .
    “It’s not very hard at all:
    .
    “Grand Theft Treasury.”

    53_3:

    That is funny. Should I take credit for all of the good humor that I inspire on this site?

  • 53_3

    textee:
    .
    In a nutshell, yes. You’ve figgered it out.
    .
    Now maybe, like I said, you should go study civil rights from real experts. Just cause you idiots elected a Black man doesn’t change your history.
    .
    And, btw, you dan’t do math, either…

  • stuartzechman

    Should I take credit for all of the good humor that I inspire on this site?
    .
    Yes.

  • http://catholicliberal.wordpress.com/2009/04/09/white-house-office-of-faith-based-and-neighborhood-partnerships/ White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships « The Catholic Liberal

    [...] Moreover, the pro-lifers named to the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships have used their influence to convince Obama to support abortion reduction, and have even secure an expanded mandate for that Office that includes abortion reduction. See also here. [...]

blog comments powered by Disqus