In the Arena

The House Vote

Three thoughts:

1. This is not unprecedented. Republicans did not give Bill Clinton’s 1993 economic plan a single vote–and you remember how the Clinton Plan led to the Great Depression of 1993…oh, wait a minute, no–it led to the Great Expansion of the 1990s. The point is, Republican economic thinking–with its tax cut obsessive-compulsive disorder–has proven as wrong as it is, apparently, immutable. 

2. This is not final. The Senate version of the bill is likely to get Republican votes, especially now that the Alternate Minimum Tax exemption has been included at Sen. Grassley’s (R-Iowa) behest. There is also likely to be a pork-wringing exercise when the bill gets to the reconciliation stage of the process. I wouldn’t be surprised if you see a not-insignificant number of House Republicans vote for final passage, especially those who hail from districts that Obama won.

3. There is an awful lot of crap in this bill. And much of it is Republican-style crap, as Tom Edsall reported: more than $23 billion in old-fashioned tax breaks to corporations, which stimulates nothing except the lobbyists’ bank statements. That sort of thing is as disgraceful as it is inevitable–the grease needed to get votes for the final package. I’d prefer a more elegant bill–and especially one that includes more spending programs targeted on an energy-efficient future, including more rail transit (as well as an Infrastructure Bank to vet all new programs, as Obama promised during the campaign). I’d also prefer to have been born with reflexes quick enough to enable me to play shortstop for the Mets. The most important thing is to get this big messy booster shot  moving into the economy as quickly as possible. (Although I do hope we double back later and make a major effort to remove corporate loopholes from the swiss cheese tax code–combined with a modest reduction of the corporate tax rate, which stands as one of the highest in the world, mostly because the plethora of loopholes make such a high rate necessary).

More Crap: This “Buy American” codicil in the bill is a really bad idea. It is a form of Smoot-Hawley protectionism, which will limit markets for US products overseas–note the remarks of Caterpillar’s DC lobbyist–and keep the economy in full stall here.

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  • 53_3
  • 53_3

    Oops. Meant sacoharry’s comments. My bad…

  • sacoharry

    Agreed on #2 Joe, and I think that’s the linchpin to the whole thing. This was an excellent face-saver by a Republican House who knows it’ll get a second chance in 2-3 weeks to revote. The new bill will undoubtedly be more to their (and their constituents’) liking. It’s (in your terms) an elegant way to be able to say “We helped make it better.” Let’s look at 2002. After 9/11 the Dems fawned all over the Right and voted knee-jerk with them, hoping to keep some shred of power. Yet they were still decimated in the ’02 elections (’04 also for that matter). The Left abandoned them and the Right certainly weren’t going to give them a vote. IMHO the Republicans learned from this. They needed a solid front to give a nod to their constituents, and this was the perfect opportunity. In 3 weeks’ time nobody will remember yesterday’s vote; they’ll only remember the yeas/nays on the one that became law. I’ll put money down on it getting at least 40 Republican votes when it comes.

  • sacoharry

    LOL, thx 53_3. Sacocherry’s one I’ve never gotten before, I think I like it.

  • 53_3

    I think that your comment has merit there and is worth serious consideration, precisely because there is a lot of Republican leaning stuff in there.
    .
    They give Obama a rough ride, look good to their base, then play to the middle on the Senate go-round.
    .
    I do hope that the irrelevant stuff is removed from the bill during the reconciliation process between the House and Senate…

  • wvng

    Hey Joe, any thoughts on Halperin blaming Obama for this?
    .
    http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/01/29/latest-column-10/#comment-37831

  • gysgt213

    Glenn has an excellent post on this issue today. Below is just the first update.
    .
    Those claiming that Obama has masterfully depicted the Republicans as arrogant obstructionists by extending the hand of compromise should review this latest Rasmussen Reports poll, which finds the public split almost evenly on whether they support the Obama/Democratic economic recovery package, with a clear trend towards increased opposition.
    .
    This is what happens every single time: the Democrats do everything possible to “accommodate” the Republican position and then get attacked anyway (they voted in large numbers for the Iraq War in and then got attacked for being soft on Terror in 2002; they voted for virtually every Bush “Terrorism” policy and the same thing happened, etc.). Here, they did everything possible to change their bill to please Republicans and nothing is happening except full-scale GOP opposition accompanied by a constant barrage of GOP attacks against them as big-spending, reckless, wealth-transferring liberals.
    .
    Ultimately, the success of this program will be measured by whether it produces successful results, so why shouldn’t Democrats use their majority to enact the policy they think is most likely to achieve that? That’s true on this issue and in general.
    .
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?source=rss

  • shepherdwong

    Republican obstructionism not unprecedented. You heard it here first.

  • kattest123

    The folksy touch from Joe is great! I never knew he wanted to play baseball, but now I do. That’s just great.
    .
    Meanwhile, here’s something for the Dems, the Mexican government, and Joe Klein to cheer about.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Thanks for the link to the poll gunny but the truth is these are not opinions about the bill, the public doesn’t have a clue as to whats in this bill. These numbers reflect their opinion of the conversation being had among journalists. The round table talk is either making them more or less confident in the plan or they are not sure what to make of it. If the media really wanted an honest opinion from the public they would stop telling people what to think and just tell them whats in the bill, it would be the first time they heard it.

  • commonsense84

    I’ll have what he’s smokin’: (Halperin says it’s Obama’s fault)

    “This is a really bad sign for Barack Obama to try to change Washington…. He needs bipartisan solutions. They went for it and they came up with zero…. [This] does not bode well for a future that is supposed to be post-partisan. [...]

    “[Obama] could have gone for centrist compromises. You can say to your own party, ‘Sorry, some of you liberals aren’t going to like it, but I am going to change this legislation radically to get a big centrist majority rather than an all-Democratic vote.’ He chose not to do that, that’s the exact path that George Bush took for most of his presidency with disastrous consequences for bipartisanship and solving big problems.”

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_01/016655.php

  • 53_3

    I guess Halperin ignored the fact that 11 Dems voted no, too.

  • alenka87

    $820 billion: Recently passed stimulus plan.
    $30 billion: Annual shortfall to end world hunger.

    Political priorities by the numbers. Read more about it on the BORGEN PROJECT website (borgenproject.org)

  • Aaron

    If Mark Halperin were replaced with a robot with Matt Drudge at the controls, would it make any difference?
    .
    I suspect that the Senate will add in more junk than the reconciliation stage takes out. (Just a guess based on the current strategy.)

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    The truth is that these are already centrist proposals. Its just that in the house there are no moderate Republicans left only the wingnuts. In the Senate they have a little more room so we’ll see, but the fact of the matter this is not just about stimulus this is also about 2010. the same thing happened to Clinton in 1993 but the 94 elections brought Newt Gingrich so maybe its a good thing he’s making sure that in this process the GOP continue to look like wingnuts rather than a reasonable alternative. Of course it would be helpful if the media would stop portraying these wingnuts as centrists.

  • bobcn1

    Halperin seems to have missed the fact that things have changed. It is no longer a Democrats responsibility to come to the Republicans with hat in hand and beg to be allowed to sit at the table (as if it ever was).
    .
    Offering bipartisanship does not mean that Democrats should abandon their principles and the promises they’ve made to their voters and turn around and act like Republicans.
    .
    Obama offered bipartisanship to the GOPers. He opened the door and they refused to walk through it. He bent over backwards to address their concerns and all he got for it was a knife in the back.
    .
    Although it’s unlikely, I’d love to see some of the concessions that were made to the GOPers removed from the stimulus package. Willingness to compromise and act in a bipartisan way should have rewards. Unwillingness should have consequences.

  • shepherdwong

    “I’ll have what he’s smokin’: (Halperin says it’s Obama’s fault)
    .
    ‘This is a really bad sign for Barack Obama to try to change Washington…. He needs bipartisan solutions.’”

    .
    Again, IOPIYAD (the corollary to IOKIYAR).

  • shepherdwong

    “If Mark Halperin were replaced with a robot with Matt Drudge at the controls, would it make any difference?”

    “There will be no change without changing the village. They live in an alternate universe in which no matter what the election returns say, conservative policies are always preferred and liberals are the reason for the country’s problems. This is what “post-partisanship” means in practice. The majority of people may want something different, but the conservatives don’t and they still rule the political establishment, if only out of habit and by default.”
    – Digby

    If only it were just Halperine.

  • rmrd

    When the final version of the bill comes out, Obama and his team will make the big push. The GOP lost on the basis of the economy. Jobs will continue to be shed prior to the final bill. Advantage Obama.

    ThinkProgress points out that the GOP still has an advantage when it comes to guest shots on news opinion shows. Thus the GOP POV, however disjointed is being presented more frequently.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/28/cable-news-stimulus/

    For those depressed an in need of a statistical uplift, head over to a Gallup poll suggesting only 5 Red States are left. (Hee Hee I said left)

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/114016/State-States-Political-Party-Affiliation.aspx

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    It would appear the gloves are off.
    .
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090129/bs_afp/uspoliticsobamaeconomyhousevote
    .

    After a failed “charm offensive,” US President Barack Obama and his allies unleashed a hard-hitting campaign Thursday to break defiant Republicans’ thus-far united opposition to his economic stimulus plan.
    .
    The strategy called for millions of labor union members to telephone Republicans from hard-hit states, coupled with an aggressive television advertising campaign targeting potentially vulnerable Republican senators.
    .
    The ad featured Obama’s warnings about the economic crisis he inherited from George W. Bush and invited viewers in Maine, New Hampshire, Alaska, and Iowa to tell their senators “support the Obama plan for jobs not the failed policies of the past,” according to the script.
    .
    And the White House did not deny a report by Politico.com that it planned a state-by-state effort, highlighting job losses, to pressure lawmakers on the stimulus plan.

  • cougargal06

    The Borgen Project (www.borgenproject.org) has some interesting facts concerning global poverty. It would cost $30 billion to eliminate global poverty, a small fraction of the $522 billion that was spent on the defense budget last year. Every night there are 800 million people that go to sleep hungry, 300 million are children.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “Mommy, what did Pwezident Jesus turn so mean?”

    You mean Obama? A common mistake, that one.

    The Democrat party’s 1000 BRIDGES TO NOWHERE neophyte Obama is throwing a virtual hissy fit, because his math is far, far worse than his mouth.

    Underemploying an army of jack-rock tossing inflammatory union thugs and tenured liberal media loons, Obama has declared war on the American taxpayer, if not the D.C. lobbyists and Soros slackers and UAW dregs that only a Barney Frankly could love.

    Obama should know better — except his zippo experience and screwy background provide zilch that would qualify him as leader of the free world, much less a Chicago graft league.

    On the plus side, he does know how to import illegal campaign finance funds from Gaza.

    Timmy, we have to allow Obama the hope to change before he crashes and burns before our very over-regulated, under amazed eyes, since he’s been promising change this and change that for the last 2 years.

    Just ignore his lies about FISA, and McVain-Sheingold, and lobbying, and Bush, and Iraq.

    Anything more would be against the agenda, and The One’s cult simply won’t tolerate that.

    Now Timmy, show me again how to hook up the digital converter box. I think we have only until February or July to figure it out (not unlike your Pwezident Jesus)…

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090129/bs_afp/uspoliticsobamaeconomyhousevote

  • wvng

    pointing and laughing at hula-
    .
    ha ha ha ha ha ha hahaha!

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Funny I didn’t see many Republicans, including hulahoop, complaining when Bush was giving out billions of dollars to wall street bankers, who in turn were handing out 2 billion dollars in bonuses. Now all of a sudden they are concerned about the money being spent, when it is a Democrat in power.

  • terrapinion

    Joe Klein,

    Please pick up the phone and give Mark Halperin a call about his recent collection of words about the Stimulus Package. The previous commentors have already correctly pointed out the inanity of his argument but since it is very unlikely that he would respond to us it would be greatly appreciated if you could take this conversation to the next level and ask him to defend his criticisms of Obama’s administration. We can sit here and type out rebuttals all day but it is better to find out why he continues to think the way that he does.

    Halperin’s errors are as follows: The GOP’s obstructionism has nothing to do with his fetish for ‘centrism’. They had nothing to gain by voting for it and they knew it would come back to them after the Senate submitted their version. This was not a ‘failure for Obama’ in any way, shape or form. This was Congressional Republicans playing politics with a very important piece of legislation. Finally, why does he cling to such a useless concept as ‘centrism’ anyway? If the Democrats say that 2+2=4 but the Republicans get their panties in a bunch and shriek that 2+2=5 then is it incumbent on a ‘Centrist’ to nod in a serious fashion and proclaim that 2+2=4.5? Just because the GOP opposes something does not mean that it is wrong and given their record – which includes pushing these same policies that got us into this mess – I have no idea why people like Halperin give the GOP the time of day let alone the benefit of the doubt.

    Seriously, Joe Klein, it would make for some very interesting blogging if you could help us lowly commentors by pursuing this. ‘Centrism’ might have some value when true partisans are in charge and the policies do not matter, but when the stakes are high and the pragmatists and technocrats are trying to actually solve the problems and not salve the egos, then ‘centrism’ is just as destructive as the rest of the Republican party platform. Mark Halperin is hurting America.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    KLEIN YOU IGNORANT SLUT:

    The evil NEWT balanced the budget, liberal bozi.

    The Clixons were just dragged along, kicking and screaming, for the welfare reform ride.

    Up until they reached Monica anyway.

    Less the GOP?

    No 90′s budget surplus (real or imagined).

    Less the Clixons?

    No 9-11, or Waco, or Rwanda, or WTC I, or Somalia, or South Beach, or USS Cole, or Khobar Towers, or African embassies, or easy money mortgage mess, or Boob Rubin, or peckerwood, or perjury, or pardons, or Hollow Army II, or Sandy Burglar, or Jammit Remo.

    What a legacy.

    To be fair, I would like to know what ANY thinking Republican was doing voting to appease Obama, over his loose change Clixon cabinet re-runs. Holder? Are you KIDDING me?

    THIS JUST IN: TAX EVASION NOW LEGAL IN 57 STATES.

    Oh well.

    HILLARY HAPPENS, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER…

  • shepherdwong

    “Now Timmy, show me again how to hook up the digital converter box. I think we have only until February or July to figure it out (not unlike your Pwezident Jesus)…”
    .
    If you’re declared to be mentally incompetent, you can’t vote, right? And I’m guessing it would make it at least a little harder to get a job in the corporate media or elected to the Congress (I could be wrong about that one). Mass committal (R) could be the key component in any healthcare reform legislation, as well as the future health of the nation.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    “Funny I didn’t see many Republicans, including hulahoop, complaining when Bush was giving out billions of dollars to wall street bankers, who in turn were handing out 2 billion dollars in bonuses…”

    Then get your eyeballs examined, Helen.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate
  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Halperin, like all members of the centrist cult, thinks that moderation is a mathematical measurement, rather than an ethical concept. The mean he is in search of is the midpoint between two points on a line, that are in constant motion. It is not the golden mean that Aristotle explained in his Ethics. To the cult it is half a bushel for you and half for me.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla
  • terrapinion

    Conservative troll has arrived to destroy any semblance of meaningful discussion thus ensuring that further comments will be ignored.

    I would be upset about it except that every time he posts his hateful nonsense he is pushing another moderate into the Democratic Party.

  • plukasiak

    It would appear the gloves are off.
    _
    the problem, of course, is that Obama himself won’t provide the visible leadership on this pushback. Instead, he’s using “union members” and the Democratic party.
    _
    But its Obama, not unions, and not the Party, that has the high approval ratings and the ear of the nation right now, and its only Obama who can successfully “speak truth to power”.
    _
    But Obama has a big problem — the GOP is right about this his bill as a stimulus package. But while even Team Obama seems to recognize this (officially calling it a “Recovery and Reinvestmment” package, not a “stimulus” package), the Villagers continue to insist on talking about a “stimulus” because what they want to see is a bill that will restore the value of their own investments, rather than a bill that will improve the economic prospects of all Americans (why do you think that Klein wants to see corporate profit taxes cut?)
    _
    Obama has to put his foot down, and say no corporate tax breaks (possibly making an exception for “green” initiatives”) until a new regulatory regime is in place that ensures that corporations act responsibly. There is no point in throwing even more good money after bad, and that is what these tax breaks do.
    _
    Instead, Obama should insitute a wealth tax to pay for the “recovery” bill aimed at the people who have all the money. (It should include a very high tax rate for assets held offshore, especially in “tax havens”.)
    _
    But the villagers would scream bloody murder if Obama did anything that would raise their taxes….so don’t expect Obama to do anything like that.

  • 53_3

    Pointing and harfing all over hulagates’ new shooze.

  • 53_3

    “Timmy, we have to allow Obama the hope to change before he crashes and burns before our very over-regulated, under amazed eyes, since he’s been promising change this and change that for the last 2 years.”
    .
    Musta had a bad dream about Timothy McVeigh, hulu.
    .
    Keep your pants dry, hulu, David Koresh’s mom got shot last week.
    .
    I felt sorry for her…

  • 53_3

    BTW, FYI:
    http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/29/hulu-translates-to-cease-and-desist-in-swahili-oh-the-irony/
    .
    I like it, however, ’cause if you combine them all together the collective meaning is:
    .
    Cease grabbing your great old hairy butt, lest there be thunder upstream!

  • plukasiak

    To the cult it is half a bushel for you and half for me.
    _
    close. For the villagers, its half a bushel for us, and the other half a bushel to be divided among the other 300,000,000 of you.
    _
    Who do you think is most threatened by the Alternative Minimum Tax? Its people in Klein’s income bracket, and not the vast majority of Americans. Yet one would think, based on the amount of media attention that the AMT gets, that its somehow a confiscatory tax aimed at middle income americans. Its not — the “extra” amount owed from “bracket creep” is negigible at best, because of the way that the AMT is structured.
    _
    Indeed, the biggest problem with AMT is its “complexity” — but since it only impacts those who itemize their deductions in pursuit of loopholes to achieve tax avoidance, and the overwhelming majority of those who itemize and are subject to the tax have accountants with spreadsheets that figure out the tax liability, “complexity” isn’t the problem that people think it is. (i.e. if you read the rules governing the AMT, you’ll get a massive headache — but basically its about eliminating certain deductions, and then taxing that money.)
    _
    nor would the AMT be a problem were it not for the Bush tax cuts — indeed, absent the Bush tax cuts, the AMT wouldn’t be an issue for those who might be affected because of bracket creep. In other words, one way of dealing with the AMT is to repeal the Bush tax cuts–but since the villagers made out great with those cuts, don’t expect to see that to become part of conventioal wisdom any time soon.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    “Rank-and-file Congressional Democrats had been willing to give Republicans the business tax cuts and other provisions they wanted in the stimulus. That is, up until every single one voted against the bill on the House floor Wednesday.

    Now, in both the House and the Senate, angry members are lobbying Democratic leaders to yank those tax breaks back.

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was asked Thursday by the Huffington Post why the business tax cuts, whose purpose was to garner Republican support, would be left in the bill if no Republicans supported it regardless.

    “That’s what my members ask me,” said Pelosi. “It wasn’t something that was suggested [by Democrats]. It was a heavy lift for our members, but they understood that it has a benefit and were willing to support it.”"

    Dems To Leadership: Cut GOP Loose

    Not much sense leaving anything in for Limbaugh’s sheep.

  • robertbe

    From the perspective of those of us living in Westminster systems the party discipline that the GOP showed yesterday just seems like just another day at the office. Sometimes the expectations about bipartisanship in the US system seem positively quaint. A majority is after all a majority.

    I agree with Derek and the angry Dem rank and file. The business tax cuts should now be binned. It will get 60something in the Senate regardless. All that being beside the fact that it is just shocking awful policy.

  • shepherdwong

    “Who do you think is most threatened by the Alternative Minimum Tax? Its people in Klein’s income bracket, and not the vast majority of Americans.”
    .
    Are you suggesting that there’s some sort of class war going on and that our millionaire punditocracy is on the other side? Who would have guessed?

  • plukasiak

    Are you suggesting that there’s some sort of class war going on and that our millionaire punditocracy is on the other side? Who would have guessed?
    _
    yeah, well whodathunkit? I mean, read Joe’s “update”, in which he comes out against “buy American” provisions of the Recovery package. The Villagers are one of the few classes of employees who don’t have to worry about their jobs being outsourced to to Vietnamese workers making $105/month — so of course he doesn’t give a damn whether the money allocated under the Recovery bill actually creates jobs in America, or (instead) provides further impetus to export jobs in the name of “economic efficiency”.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Joke Line quotes a lobbyist for Caterpillar the day after they cut 20,000 jobs. Not sure they would be who I would be listening to right about now.

  • plukasiak

    yeah, gotta love JK’s citation of Caterpillar…from the company’s website…
    _
    Caterpillar manufactures more than 300 products in 23 countries and serves customers in 200 countries worldwide. Our global presence extends to every continent and includes over 480 facility locations — almost half of which are outside the U.S.
    _
    oh, and here is some info about how “badly” caterpillar is doing, and why those 20,000 jobs had to be eliminiated…from the caterpillar press release on its 4th quarter 2008 performance… http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=38622&x=7&id=1303022
    _
    Caterpillar Inc. (NYSE: CAT) today announced record sales and revenues of $51.324 billion for 2008, <b?up 14 percent from 2007. Profit per share was $5.66, up 5 percent and profit after tax of $3.557 billion was about flat with 2007. The company also reported record fourth-quarter sales and revenues of $12.923 billion, 6 percent higher than the fourth quarter of 2007.

  • Art Pepper

    AMT should probably be pegged to inflation. If you live in a state with a high cost of living, you can definitely get hit with the AMT on a middle-class income. Also, it’s certainly easy to owe some AMT and not realize it until the IRS fines you.
    -
    That said, the AMT has almost nothing to do with stimulating the economy. If they are handing out $$ to individuals, instead of infrastructure projects, they should push the money as far down the economic ladder as possible.
    -
    For example, they could … I don’t know … fund family planning clinics for poor people.

  • http://www.hulagate.org hulagate

    Q: What do liberals call facts?

    A: Hate speech.

    Move On indeed.

  • 53_3

    Art:
    .
    Hitch Hulu to a Horse!

  • http://bschoolblog.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/economic-stimulus-update/ Economic Stimulus Update « North Carolina State University Jenkins MBA Weblog

    [...] Stimulus Update | Jan 30th 2009 I’m on the move today quite a bit, but please go read this short piece by Joe Klein on the stimulus. It’s worth your while. And if you’re interested, read [...]

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