UPDATE: More Conservative Stimulation

Given that Boehner has said vote no, anyway, I’d say we should keep the condoms in. And more SUPERTRAIN.
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(The SUPERTRAIN thing is about the stupid two senators per state thing, which was the single thing the founders got wrong. We got way too much high fructose corn syrup, and way too little useful railways.)

Listening to the hopelessly partisan GOP instead of public opinion and reasoned policy analysis. Bad for America, good for praise from David Broder.
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Meanwhile, the GOP is going to oppose the bill anyway.
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Ugh.

I think it is past time for Obama to just do what’s right and ignore the repuglicans (h/t PA):
President Barack Obama is coming to the Capitol later today in a bid to curry favor with congressional Republicans. But it appears GOP leaders have already made up their minds to oppose his $825 billion stimulus plan.
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House Republican Leader John A. Boehner and his No. 2, Whip Eric Cantor, told their rank-and-file members Tuesday morning during a closed-door meeting to oppose the bill when it comes to the floor Wednesday, according to an aide familiar with the discussion.
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This should dampen the mood for an early afternoon meeting with the president, who is making the trek to hear Republicans’ input on the legislation before Wednesday’s vote.
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Steve Benen has a modest proposal: I have one relevant question: since the House GOP isn’t interested in passing the bill anymore, can Democrats make it even better now? The White House has been willing to make all kinds of concessions to win over Republican support, but it’s not enough. Since the GOP is going to vote "no" anyway, why not make the bill as effective and progressive as possible? If there’s no point in the majority party offering unwelcome enticements to those who’ll remain obstinate anyway, then pull the enticements and let the majority party do the right thing.

Can you blame them…the problem with the GOP is that no one’s better at harping on a point until it drowns out all logical arguments. I mean what sounds better..”umh, millions of dollars spent on condoms…who does that help?” vs “this amendment simply provides states with the ability to continue family-planning services already offered with minimal bureaucratic assistance.”

I minimize the overall point, nevertheless, for the sake of something being passed quickly I almost want to say, let the Repugs have it and drop it from the package.

I think this is a good strategic move on Obama’s part.
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We don’t need to get the stimulus package caught up in any more ideological conflict than is already inherently there.
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Fight that battle separately.

Obama is simply getting played (or possibly rolled) by the repugs, and needs to put a stop to it now. Via TPM: McConnell: Republicans Are More in Line With Obama Than Dems

I think the GOP would do better to craft their own stimulus policy then simply coast along and vote no on the Democrats legislation. The GOP are doing themselves no favors by continually shooting proposals down, but offering no ideas of their own. Well, beyond saying more tax breaks of course.

Looks like the babysitter just gave in to deamnds for one more cartoon before bedtime.

Obama caved to one major Republican sore spot in the stimulus;I don’t blame Boehner and the GOP leadership for imagining another scenario where Obama rebukes his own party in the name of “bipartisanship.”

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Not sure this was a bad move on their part politically. It deprives the Republicans of a talking point that could have gotten real traction on cable and talk radio. (See also: Midnight basketball)

The constant kow towing to Boehner and McConnellMcCain will end up alienating Progressives. If Republicans are ready to go toe to toe for their “beliefs” why should we place such a high value on “bipartisanship”. What does “bi-pa” mean at this time? To me it looks like caving in. One quibble with KT: The Republicans will dish out their TPs no matter what. Doesn’t it always come down to sex with the Right? Condoms, indeed.

K Tizzle
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Just wondering how this jibes with your whole “talking heads don’t make a difference” take.

Plus, I’ll bet federal permission for states to offer family planning services (the requirement Obama is allowing to stand) will be about as hard to get as a cold Diet Coke.
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O/T: Is there anything creepier than that frozen smile Eric Cantor pastes on his face? Other than Boehner’s prematurely orange skin, that is?

Disagree, KT. The GOP is wrong on the merits, wrong according to polls, and has never been politically weaker. The right thing to do, politically and morally and for the future good of the country and the GOP, is to purge the rottenness from the system.
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Your response is a direct criticism of Joe Klein’s point yesterday that Rush Limbaugh is irrelevant. Of course he is not. He rules the Republicans’ world and, by extension, yours.

“It deprives the Republicans of a talking point that could have gotten real traction on cable and talk radio. (See also: Midnight basketball)”
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That’s probably the worst posiible reason. As if cable and talk radio will now move on to substance. (see also:1994-2009)

Well, to reinforce KT’s point, everyone is assuming that taking the family planning money provision out of the stimulus bill means it is permanently dead. Not so! Right after the stimulus passes, the House and Senate will take up Fiscal 2008 appropriations (everyone’s forgotten that the federal govt is operating right now under a continuing resolution from last fall that expires at the beginning of March). There will be an omnibus bill, and quite likely the family planning money will be in it–without nearly the muss and fuss.

Oh good, so the same tactics work. Tell the Big Lie enough and it becomes true.
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Obama is probably making the right tactical choice – get the thing passed. But this will only encourage them.
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I wouldn’t mind GOP opposition if it were principled but they know that particular talking point is crap. Don’t they? I guess I should never misunderestimate the stupidity of a Senator.

7oaks: One quibble with KT: The Republicans will dish out their TPs no matter what.
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sgw: Just wondering how this jibes with your whole “talking heads don’t make a difference” take.
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atrios: I’m always amazed at how mainstream journalists never acknowledge that anything they do could possibly have an impact on anything.
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The result of this “debate” is entirely in the hands of the media, and the talking heads in particular. If they discuss it honestly, and frame it as Elvis did above, the public will understand what is happening perfectly.
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But, of course, what they are doing is this: Matthews: Government Support for Family Planning "Sounds Like China"

sgwhite:

Good point. It totally contradicts my argument. My argument about how few people really listen to talking heads (Let’s call it KT Rule #2) meets an overriding one (Let’s call it KT Rule #1): Demagoguery usually wins.
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Art – Th’ senators no be stupid – they still be controllin’ th’ wind, so t’ speak, an’ navigatin’ th’ ship still through th’ manipulation o’ th’ press. It be so easy t’ do tha’ a half-daft cabin boy be capable o’ carryin’ it out. All they have t’ do is run their usual bilge pot up the line, an’ th’ press will dutifully “report” it. So th’ sails be set an’ anythin’ tha’ may come after in th’ way o’ correctin’ be lost in the gale force o’ th’ initial crap a flyin’.
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So long as th’ press be such willin’ puppets, an’ th’ majority party be so inept an’ willin t’ run up th’ surrender flag at th’ first sign o’ skirmish, nothin’ be changin’ here.

KT: First Prize for Gracious Concession. Awfully decent and all that.

Yes, KT. I must say it’s a breath of fine, sweet air to read a reporter who actually concedes a point every now and then. Usually all we get from your peers is excuses, misdirection and (when all else fails) sullen silence and stonewalling.

Josh: The McConnell/Boehner plan is to fix the Bush mess by pushing through more of the former president’s policies. Again. Totally clear. I don’t think they’d even deny it. Why is this off-limits to say out loud?

By the way, can I just point out that every good American and every good Democrat out to kick Chris Matthews right in the ass? (Paraphrasing Goldwater on Falwell).

Sigh. “out” = “ought.” Can’t even blame the lack of preview.

The newest addition to the Bill of Rights: The Conservative Hissy Fit Exception

Elvis Elvisberg
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Honestly I don’t fault Matthews this time. I fault Wexler and every other Democratic surrogate who went on Tee Vee yesterday woefully underprepared for that debate after it had been brewing since Boehner’s comments last week. The fact that Josh Marshall and Amanda Terkel to lefty librul bloggers can make the case for keeping the contraceptives in the bill better than any of the Democrats sent out to defend it says a lot about the party and about the people who put it in the bill in the first place!

Wexler gives off more heat than light.

K Tizzle says
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Good point. It totally contradicts my argument. My argument about how few people really listen to talking heads (Let’s call it KT Rule #2) meets an overriding one (Let’s call it KT Rule #1): Demagoguery usually wins.

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Then K Tizzle doesn’t Rule #2 automatically overrule Rule #1 every single time since Demagoguery is the tool of choice for the Republican party?

All that Wexler had to say was “health care! health care! health care! This is about health care!” – but you can’t go on Hardball without being willing to shout and make Extremely. Simple. Points.

Why fight, sgwhiteinfla? In the spirit of compromise and bipartisanship, I reach out to you and say, the Democrats are wimps, and the media sucks at reporting the news.
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Matthews’ “sounds like China” nonsense would get him tossed off the air, if cable news had “accuracy” anywhere in its top 15 priorities.

pirate lady – I lean toward “liars” as well, but then you look at someone like Tom DeLay or Inhofe – deeply stupid men.

I think this is very smart of President Obama (God, that still feels great to say that!) He is openly making every effort to make this a bi-partisan stimulus effort, and if he is still rejected after having “gone to the mountaintop,” he will be at liberty to throw the republicans under the infrastructure dumptruck. Giving them their “condom prevention” position as a (temporary) bone is good optics. Driving down to the Hill is great optics. Boehner et. al. on the receiving end of an Obama stiff arm is great for us!

The institution ‘reporting’ this has a history of FAIL. I’ll believe it when I hear it from the horses mouth. Since we can’t really believe what we read at Time, or any MSM outlet…can any commenter verify that this is true?
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IF it’s true, then I don’t think this is a biggie. Obama needs to show the public that he made more than a good faith effort at ‘bi-partisanship’ before he uses his extremely high approval ratings against the collapsing GOP. Time to crush these fools.
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Also, KT, if talking heads don’t matter, why does anyone watch the cable nets? They don’t do anything other than talking heads really….

(Let’s call it KT Rule #1): Demagoguery usually wins.
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KT — since this can only take place with the help of the media do you feel any responsibility to make it stop or is rule #3 media shall be water carriers for demagogues?

cinci
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Heard it from a Dem senators mouth this morning on MSNBC

Ex winger John Cole, in a post in which he says he isn’t going to offer Obama advice “because I am just some idiot with a website . . . ” then he goes on to offer some advice
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If I were to give advice, I would say to just forget the politics of it all, at least in the House. You have the votes. Just put whatever you think will best get the economy rolling again, and if the Republicans have an idea that will help, add it. If the House Dems lard it up with useless stuff, get it out. The majority of the Republicans can be counted on to act in bad faith, so bipartisanship should not be giving them symbolic nods just to get their votes. Bipartisanship should be including their good ideas when they have them.
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Trust me. That will be so rare, it will be obvious when they have a good idea. It will look as out of place as a whale in a salad bowl.
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So just do what is right, and ignore the Republicans until they have something to offer. And even then, be careful, because as soon as you accept their idea, they will try to change it to offer themselves more political advantage. That is just how they roll.

Under the provision, states no longer would be required to obtain federal permission to offer family planning services — including contraceptives — under Medicaid, the health program for the low-income.

Questions I need to research:
Currently, which federal organization provides this permission to states?
In either case, are states the final arbiters of whether or not any or all services are provided?
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I’m trying to figure out whether this is “as hard to get as a cold Diet Coke” in Atlanta, or as hard to get as warm White Castle in Atlanta, or something in between.

OT, but proving once again how wrong JoeK was about Limbaugh, Ruffini wants him to take Kristol’s place:
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Either we engage the liberal media on our terms or on none at all. The Times needs someone who is as far to the right, in as hard-edged and partisan a way, as Paul Krugman is to the left. The fact that strident left-wing voices one step voice up from Kos appear on the op-ed page is not considered a problem, so why shouldn’t the same be true on the right?
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Proving once again that you can never overestimate the ability of wingers to be “teh stoopid.”

SG — Sorry to have to say this but the Democrats inability to craft a viable talking point is legendary. Some of it has to do with an attitude that some things are so obvious they need no explanation (which has proven time and time again to be a stupid attitude to take) and some of it is they don’t want to act like Republicans (which has also proven time and time again to be a stupid attitude to take).
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There is no shortage of stupidity in America and it ain’t all on the Republican side. The Democrats need to stop waiting for the media to call out the GOP for their politicking on this issue and put a name on this cynical behavior. The only way the media will attach negative motives to the GOP blocking tactics is as a quote so I say Dems better start calling them on it.

But Dee, even when promptly corrected by serious dem souces (in this case Orzag), the media will run with any story that fits the narrative they have decided to tell/sell. Such as in this remarkably dishonest bit from a “serious” reporter:
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Last night on CNN’s “Lou Dobbs Tonight,” CNN White House correspondent Ed Henry slammed “liberals” for criticizing preliminary figures from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) purporting to show that “it will take years before an infrastructure spending program proposed” by President Barack Obama “will boost the economy.” Henry said Democrats were being hypocrites, “attacking the CBO” for releasing figures “not…completely favorable” to Obama:
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HENRY: What’s most interesting, when you take a step back, is for the last eight years, I’ve been covering — at least for part of it — the Bush White House. The CBO was always held up by Democrats as a gold standard of nonpartisan analysis. Now that the CBO has analyzed an Obama initiative and has not come out completely favorable, it’s interesting to see liberals now attacking the CBO and essentially saying that you can’t trust them.
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It is absolutely true that dems suck at sound bite talking points, but it is also true that the media will, by in large, ignore them anyway.

This may be a simple application of negotiation strategy – make a unilateral concession to show good faith. Either there’s a reciprocal step toward agreement, or you learn it’s not a good faith negotiation.
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My money’s on the latter, and it will be interesting to see how the GOP’s parrots in the media play their team’s response.

wvng – When regular CNN’ers go on “Lou Dobbs vs. the Meskin Mobs” they have to get in sync with Lou’s idiosyncratic view of the world. Otherwise they lose the airtime, and that matters far more than truth.

Thanx SG…it is thus verified.
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“Sorry to have to say this but the Democrats inability to craft a viable talking point is legendary.”
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Yeah. Never understood why they couldn’t make a phrase like ‘country club Republican’ a staple in the national discourse the way ‘limousine liberal’ was a few years back. And Obama, in his laid back style, should call out the media…their approval ratings are dismal.

K Tizzle is on MSNBC

sgwhite- you beat me to it.

wvng — true but there’s the other tactic that Reps use that Dems forget: Call the repoorter biased against Dems and repeat often.

And Obama, in his laid back style, should call out the media…their approval ratings are dismal.
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Boy would that be a mistake. “They” may behave badly, but people still watch them – and “they” are petty enough to begin taking down another Dem president if they feel a bit slighted, much less confronted with their bad behavior.
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Speaking of feeling slighted: Obama taking attention away from where it belongs: the White House press corps – Be sure to note the helpful pie-chart.

United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture Manfred Nowak on why we should be investigating and prosecuting Rumsfield and other Bushies for war crimes.
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http://rawstory.com/news/2008/UN_official_Enough_evidence_to_prosecute_0126.html

“true but there’s the other tactic that Reps use that Dems forget: Call the repoorter biased against Dems and repeat often.”
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Come Dee-The media is all liberal. Every single big corp owned media outlet is in teh tank for the liberals. That’s why the “Angry Left” is used in such glowing terms 24-7. That’s why when ever there is a job opening in the media journos on the right are considered first. The left has Rachel, Paul and Keith and the 3 of them are drowning out all the other voices in print, radio and on the teeve.

(Too lazy for pirate-speak)
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Where is “Stop the Smears” when we need it? What happened to the legendary, tightly on-message Obama communication machine? What, exactly, are we doing to get out there agressively on top of this stuff instead of lagging behind the MSM obediently picking up and repeating Republican talking points as veritas? It’s not like no one in the Congress or Administration knows this is coming – it’s so blatantly obvious and established Republican lie machine antics.
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The election was just the beginning, not the end. If we don’t find a way, and da*n quick, to play anticipatory offense instead of ineffectual defense, we’re sunk.
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It’s a little too early to give up the ghost, I know, but I would feel a lot better if my party would get off its collective a**es and stop self-perpetuating the weak/feckless meme the MSM is so happy to indulge every time they get the chance.
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Let Rush and the rest of the deposed cabal go scr*w themselves, and tell them in no uncertain terms to do just that. Who CARES what they say any more?

What gunny said. Although I would dearly love to see the Dems collectively start describing repug tactics as “hissy fits.” Belittle them consistently. Even if the media refused to cover it or, rather, refused to talk about it, that kind of language would start to perc.

I know what you’re saying wvng, but Obama I think could do it in a way that would work….maybe. However, when the situation is this dire, and after everything that’s happened over the last 8 years, and the media continues to behave like childish idiots and incorrigible morons..I’m not sure he has a chance. He’s gotta get to public opinion before the punditry does.

“I’m not sure he has a chance”
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Should read: I’m not sure he has a choice.(cuz this whole thing could go down big time)

When I train individuals how to communicate their research findings I tell them to determine the frame that puts the best light on the findings and do not give the listener an alternative frame.
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The Republicans are trying to knock Obama down a peg or two so they have gotten the media to change the frame to its either stimulus or pork.
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The Democratic response is this an economic recovery and reinvestment package. They question medicaid funding — What part of reinvestment don’t you get. What about the grass on the mall? Well that’s a twofer it adds landscaping jobs for the recovery and reinvests in a major attraction to our tourist industry. No matter what the question the frame is recovery and reinvestment.

pirate lady, I share your implied Arrrgggghhhhh! Obama has clearly been trying to be above it all and to bring people together,and for a few days a few repugs (like McConnell and McCain) were acting like they might try that as well – but that’s not who and what they are, and they have reverted to type very very quickly.
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I agree that the Obama crew needs to take a deep breath, say to themselves “we really did try”, and then start proactively squashing rebugs underfoot.
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cincy: He’s gotta get to public opinion before the punditry does. He’s already got public opinion on his side, but the beltway media (certainly the teevee media) seem intent on tearing that down for no good cause other than he’s a dem and the Drudge machine commands them to do so. Speaking of the Drudge machine, what is Halperin up to these days?

“He’s already got public opinion on his side, but the beltway media (certainly the teevee media) seem intent on tearing that down for no good cause other than he’s a dem and the Drudge machine commands them to do so.”
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Which is entirely my point. We know it’s going to happen and I suspect Obama does also. So why not have Obama, sadly have to report that the media is again embroiled in silly season and that they have a responsibility to inform, blah, blah. A desperate and worried public is primed for it. The GOP and MSM approval ratings added together don’t come close to BHO’s. I have such confidence in his rhetorical prowess that I think it could be done in a way that might be effective. We know the alternative.
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Saw KT on teevee…no mis-stated facts. A triumph of sorts I suppose. Seen a couple of reporters talk about the disagreement between BHO and congressional Rethugs without spelling out what they are. Reporting on the politics…never reporting on the facts.

Obama has to cut this crap out right now. The GOP is taking everything he’s offering and using it to hit Dems over the head. He has to say at some point that the GOP is the obstructionist here especially since they told their members to vote against the bill before they even had the meeting even if the contraceptives were taken out. Letting the GOP frame the debate is a huge mistake.

Should read:Seen a couple of reporters talk about the disagreement between BHO and congressional Rethugs on taxes cuts without spelling out what they are. Reporting on the politics…never reporting on the facts.

Interesting blog over at Balloon Juice based on this post at Politico:
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Then this morning, House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) went for the jugular, urging his members to oppose the economic centerpiece of Obama’s first term just hours before the president paid the Republicans the compliment of coming to the Capitol for a private meeting — even before he did the same for House Democrats.
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Obama’s aides cast the visit as an outstretched hand — and it got slapped.
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The bottom line: a coordinated effort to embarrass a president who looked largely unassailable just weeks ago.
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People have been talking about Obama’s first big test as President, always casting it as some big catastrophic event in the world or another blow to the economy. But this is actually it. As Dee said: Obama has to cut this crap out right now. He really does have to do it, he has to show he can do it, and he hast to create some pain on the side that has behaved so dishonorably. Perhaps it is the opportunity for his first prime time speech. Lacking that “bully pulpit” I don’t see how he takes the steam out of the repug assault with the media going along with it so gleefully.

I close by saying that this all makes me terrifically sad. Not surprised, but deeply saddened. Ta ya’ll.

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