Obama Surprises the Culture Warriors

“safe, legal, and rare.”
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And there you have it. ‘Nuff said.

Its amazing how intent the repubs are on continuing the same old politics despite Obama’s effort to change the tone in Washington… just amazing

Oh joy, I can’t wait to hear what conservative radio and the Catholic bishops have to say.
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And shouldn’t you sign off on your posts with a humble “amen”?

It will be a trick for Obama to balance his inclusive rhetoric with what are sure to be some divisive decisions made over the next four years. All presidents make them; will Obama be able to handle the mixed messages?

http://www.political-buzz.com/

I am “concerned” that democrats are all heathens. Very “concerned”.

trifecta55, you needn’t be concerned about all democrats being heathens. We have a big tent. We have semi-heathens, quasi-heathens, regular heathens, highly irregular heathens and then my favorite…the “OMG did you see THAT heathen?”. The meetings are chaotic, but the parties kick ass.

oathdoover —
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definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expercting a different result.
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Wing nut — A crazy Republican
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Nuff said

Clinton entered the White House having tempered the skepticism of many pro-life voters with his insistence that abortion should be “safe, legal, and rare.” His decision to make repealing the Mexico City ban one of his very first acts in office led many to wonder if the slogan was just that–a slogan.
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Well it’s their fault if they somehow missed the “safe and legal” part. The ban kills people. That’s a good enough reason to repeal it on any day.
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BTW, I’m not criticizing Obama’s decision. I’m criticizing Amy Sullivan.

As a member of the rapidly dwindling group that identifies itself as “Main-line Protestantism,” I would like to request that Amy Sullivan please get off my side.

I feel link I’m Lincoln Chafee being forced to dialogue with Sarah Palin.

Oh, snap! I used “dialogue” as a verb. And it would actually be a duologue, come to think of it.

Amy–
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What are you talking about? Why are you raising the issue of “rare,” or any question of the sincerity of that slogan?
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The real question is why you and other evangelicals don’t support the use of accurate sex education, provision of contraception, and dismissal of abstinence-only education. The way to make unwanted pregnancy rare involves measures–truthful education, wide provision of contraception, support services outside of church centers–that are anathema to people who claim to want to reduce the number of abortions.
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We’ve seen what happens when sex education and reproductive services are run by people who don’t believe in reality. Unwanted pregnancy rates go up.

Dee, no arguments here. I’m watching the “Presidents” on the history channel and they are now up to the early years on the Clinton Admin. To see Newt and the Repubs forcing a gov’t shutdown because they couldn’t get their way, I see the same parallel in them postponing Hillary’s and Holder’s nomination.

Amy Sullivan
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As for the FOCA, see also “Fairness Doctrine”
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I posted over at the Washington Monthly that if Obama really wants the wingnuts to lose their bearings he should announce and sign another executive order by the end of the week permanently banning the Fairness Doctrine. Hannity would lose half his viewership overnight.

Jed over at daily kos makes the same point I (and Dee) made earlier about the repubs penchant for insanity:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/1/21/214045/780/138/687364

Rose (OT):
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I answered your question (very late) here.

I suspect that when Obama does issue the executive order regarding the Mexico City policy, it will be followed by concrete action to support abortion reduction.
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I suspect it will be followed by concrete action to support unintended pregnancy reduction.
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Wow, sorry, Rose. Mr. Preview failed again.
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Here’s that link:
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http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/01/21/caroline-kennedy-reportedly-backs-out/?apage=2#comment-36030

Does this mean that Jocelyn Elders’ plan for realistic sex education programs is still before its time? In any event, it’s just nasty to mention Bill Clinton when discussing adult sex issues.

Ah, yes, the Mexico City Policy. A trip down memory lane. Remember back in early 2001? When Bush would look like a complete idiot and the press would actually, more or less, report on it? Whether it was reversing decades of ambiguity with regard to defending Taiwan against a Chinese attack…or not having any f-ing clue what the Mexico City Policy was: “…the money from Mexico, you know, that thing, the executive order I signed about Mexico City.”.

I have to say, that if Obama does reverse the policy it will be so nice to have a President who actually — literally — understands what he is signing.

Abstinence only sex education is a farce. It doesn’t work. The only way to educate young people about sex is to actually educate them. It’s a novel idea but it’s worth looking into. If you expect teenagers to postpone sex until marriage by just telling them not to have sex, expect children to be born out of wedlock. Having Purity Balls (if that name doesn’t creep you out, there’s something wrong) isn’t the answer. Passing out condoms on demand isn’t the answer either. Abortion is a drastic measure and I personally don’t like it, but it does happen. When it does happen, I’d much prefer that it be done safely in a clinic or hospital. If Roe v. Wade ever is overturned, abortions will still be performed. Drugs are illegal but I hear people still use them. In a perfect world abortions would be performed only to save the life of the mother and not as a form of birth control, but it’s not a perfect world. If we ever make the mistake of banning abortions the people with the means will go to a country where they are legal, the poor here will have them perform under less than ideal conditions. That’s just reality.

Of course abortions will still be performed as they always have. The only difference is that Roe v. Wade seriously reduced the morbidity of dark room coathanger procedures. The pro-life freaks give me a laugh. The same people are very anti-life when it comes to the life of the mother, the lives of unwanted children, capital punishment, and war.

formerlyjames, That sounds so much like “life begins at conception and ends at birth”. The rabid pro-lifers take little into account other than their own values. Over 20 million legal abortions have been performed since abortions were made legal. When a woman has an abortion it is the stongest statement she can make that she doesn’t want the child. Over 20 million unwanted children also doesn’t sound promising.

stuart, yes thanks I saw it and replied. You are the Pauline Kael of tech management criticism!

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AS: But it was an interesting and important decision not to make that move on such a politically-charged day.
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Nope…not interesting, or important. The only thing making this day ‘politically-charged’ is the obsessive focus on the abortion issue by conservative radio and Catholic bishops. Hell, If you wouldn’t have mentioned it, this controversial day would have passed virtually unnoticed.
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Exactly why do you think the ‘No-Drama-Obama’ nickname was coined?

House Republicans spent the day collecting 105 signatures on a letter they sent to Obama demanding he withdraw his 2007 pledge to sign the Freedom of Choice Act–legislation that he will not be signing
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Good to see the GOP spending their time wisely, then.

I’d like to give Amy a longer trial period but my patience is wearing thin. Amy — do better or go home or at least go to faux news where your kind of intellectual vigor would be more comfortable.

Dee, if that vid made me feel claustrophobic and tainted, I can only imagine how el presidente felt–my guess is he bolted for the shower ASAP to cleanse himself. Like rubbing elbows at a pedophile convention. Tweety’s “thrill up his leg” as a collective consciousness
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What Cincy said was pitch-perfect: “I was just thinking someone should bring out some milk and cookies for the WH press and pat them on the head. Doing something to make them feel important is the key…”
~I guess it takes a video to really sum certain things up–in this case the press corps = courtiers, or at least pathetic lapdog seeking a kind word from master.

Given the fact that Obama supports the killing of infants who have survived abortions and given the fact that Obama, while in the Illinois legislature, cast votes supporting the killing of infants who survive abortions (he said that prohibiting said infant killing would be a “burden” on the mothers of those infants), what is Obama’s preferred method of killing those infants? Decapitation or other forms of dismemberment? Firing squad? Lethal injection? Electrocution? Immolation? Blunt force trauma? Starvation? Dehydration? Also, if the mothers and the abortionists of those surviving infants were to eat those infants, would Obama have any objection? If so, what would be the basis of his objection? Infants don’t taste good? He prefers a vegan diet?

Amy, I enjoyed the post. I know that this is an area that you have knowledge. Please don’t let the harsh comments get to you.

what is Obama’s preferred method of killing those infants?
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Incineration.
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Also, if the mothers and the abortionists of those surviving infants were to eat those infants, would Obama have any objection?
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Well, they’re kind of fatty. Usually you want to wait until they’re six or so. And for god’s sake, keep them away from the Mexican soft drinks! Diabetes just ruins the flavor.

In all seriousness, I’m not 100% certain why people are getting on Sullivan’s case for this. Maybe because I’m a little brain dead from a trip to the DMV.

@Cliff- reflexes?
For my part, I don’t see anything too objectionable in this post, nor anything that particularly puts AS in line with typical Evangelical thinking. Maybe we see what we want to see here.

I look at the whole problem as a window into human nature. As JayAck points out above the same people who object the loudest to abortion rights also object to sex education and other forms of contraception. This clearly demonstrates that their objections have less to do with the fates of unborn souls than it does with discomfort over recreational sex.
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So what is the association between authoritarian religious beleifs and discomfort with pleasure? And why do the same people who experience such discomfort with sexual pleasure nevertheless have such enthusiasm for warfare? Again, it’s obvious that concern over innocent souls has absolutely nothing to do with the question.

There wasn’t anything wrong with Sullivan’s post. I don’t know how many people realize this but there were at least one instance of violence yesterday which may have been linked to the anniversary. A guy ran his van into the front of an abortion clinic fortunately not injuring anybody in Minnesota. There were also mass protests around the nation. Now Sullivan could have done a better job with the post by not making it seem like “safe legal and rare” was just a campaign ploy but the FOCA was an issue the wingnut raised during the campaigned season over and over and over.

shorter AS = The president did nothing today on reproductive rights and that’s a big story.
AS — What the hell are you writing about and who the hell cares?

shorter Amy Sullivan:
Obama is going to let more third world women die in order to temporarily placate those who are unplacatable, and I approve.

Amy knows about Culture Warriors. She made her name playing one.

Today’s Bible verse is from Deuteronomy 12, verses 1-3, in which God compels his followers to wipe out all symbols of other religions:

“1
These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

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Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:

3 And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.”

This has been the Friday edition of Bible stories that Amy and other Christians refuse to discuss.

According to Reuters he’ll be siging an order to list the gag rule today.
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Perhaps they’re not as concerned with symbolism (in some cases) as they are with prioritizing.

The problem with Amy’s post is that it reveals she would have considered repealing the ban yesterday as fueling culture wars. As I said in my first post, I’m not critical of Obama’s decision. Waiting one day so he can placate people like Amy Sullivan is reasonable. But I am personally appalled that Sullivan feels that swiftly repealing a ban that kills some of the most vulnerable people on the planet – third world women – would be doing “away with any goodwill that accompanied his inauguration by igniting the culture wars on his second day in office.“

Rose – gotcha. Sullivan’s more concerned with the effects of pleasing the Culture Warriors than the life and death ramifications of Obama’s actions.
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Smedley – isn’t there stuff in Deuteronomy about selling your sister into slavery and how you can’t wear garments made from two different types of fabric or else you’ll get stoned to death?

If you want to read stuff that will really make your eyes bug out, the place to go first is Leviticus.

I dunno Friar, In Genesis, God seeing mankind working together in harmony, building the Tower of Babel, getting jealous and smashing it, spreading humanity throughout the world and making them speak different languages so they can’t understand each other. How about when Abraham went to Sodom to find 50 good men and as soon as he got there and went to that dude’s house, all the men of Sodom surrounded the house and shouted ‘Send out Abe! We we all want to do him!’(he must have been Brad Pitt, George Clooney and the Jonas Brothers all in one) and the guy who owns the house coming out and saying, “No! You can all gang bang my young daughters all you want, I’ll even provide chips and salsa*! But whatever you do, don’t have sex w/ Abraham…because that would be wrong.” Ohhhhhhhh, mercy…who wouldn’t want to worship a god like that!? Good stuff.
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*I made the chips and salsa part up, but I’m sure he offered some kind of refreshments.

Just out of curiosity, when is the last time Amy responded to commenters?

Friar and cinci there was a great documentary on sundance channel last night called “Because the Bible Told me So” about homosexuality and the bible. Most of the what to eat, wear, and act stuff, of course, is contained in Leviticus, but how to be a proper slave, stoning smart mouth kids, etc. is all through it. It was a very interesting feature if you get a chance to see it. Friar, no offense intended, as I know you know all this stuff, just pointing out the documentary.

Cinci, formerly,
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You sure can get all (even more than) you need out of Genesis, and it does show up all through the Old Testament. Leviticus gets into technical statements theologians can actually argue and write theses about, so it comes up first in my mental Rolodex when sexual issues are broached.
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I will definitely look for “Because the Bible” on Sundance. Thanks for the tip!

Cincinnatus, I did get a chance to watch Because the Bible Told Me So. I already knew most of they went over but it was an interesting documentary. How do we know that Abraham wasn’t wearing a midriff blouse tied off in the front and hot pants? Obama did repeal the gag order today. The right wing is furious. They hadn’t been furious or indignant for several days. The pressure must have been enormous.

[...] nadie es un secreto que Barack Obama, 44vo Presidente de los Estados Unidos, es un defensor del movimiento “Pro-Decisión.” Pero su influencia  ha venido, en gran parte, del movimiento liberal que se desató desde inicios [...]

[...] nadie es un secreto que Barack Obama, 44vo Presidente de los Estados Unidos, es un defensor del movimiento “Pro-Decisión.” Pero su influencia  ha venido, en gran parte, del movimiento liberal que se desató desde inicios [...]