Security Theater and Security Porn

Here we are, just two days into 2009, and already we have a Flying While Muslim incident to discuss. Yesterday at DCA, nine Muslims (identifiable with long beards and hijab, except for the three kids under age eight) were removed from an Air Tran flight. According to an Air Tran spokesman, “people got on and made comments they shouldn’t have made on the airplane, and other people heard them.” A TSA representative concurred: “Someone heard something that was inappropriate.” 

What were the comments so dastardly and threatening that a number of people on the plane reported their fellow passengers? According to one of the men who was removed from the flight, his brother and sister-in-law were discussing the safest place to sit on an airplane.

That’s inappropriate? I’m being serious, because I hear some version of that conversation nearly every time I fly, usually between some grizzled air veteran and a newbie flyer who has heard that if the plane goes down you’re better off at the very back. Or over the wings. Or in the lavatory. Take away the hijab and the beard and the “not-American-ness” and there’s very likely no incident here.

Maybe we’ll get some insight into TSA decisions once “Homeland Security” premieres on ABC next week. (I cannot wait to read what Jim P. has to say about the new reality show…) Each week, the program goes behind the scenes with workers at the country’s various security apparatus. I’m especially excited about episode two, in which customs and immigration officials do their best to protect us from the scourge of illegal belly dancers. 

According to executive producer Arnold Shapiro, the show “doesn’t have a political point of view.” We’ll all have to watch and decide for ourselves, I suppose, but it’s hard not to get some political message from the promos, which focus heavily on border patrol officers. Sample deep-voice voiceover with footage of officers chasing illegal immigrants: “They protect us from harm. And defend our freedom.” A similar program is apparently a huge hit in Australia. Let’s just hope it’s no “Kath and Kim.”

UPDATE: Air Tran sought to avoid a lawsuit issued an apology to the DCA-9 a few hours ago. And because yesterday the airline refused to re-book the booted passengers and they had to purchase new tickets on another airline out-of-pocket, Air Tran also offered to cover the cost of their tickets. Throw in a few meal vouchers to cover the cost of some Cinnabons and then we’ll be getting somewhere…

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  • Cliff

    Take away the hijab and the beard and the “not-American-ness” and there’s very likely no incident here.
    .
    That’s kinda going out on a limb, don’t you think?

  • gysgt213

    Amy-Not to make lite of this, but these things happen when we get all afraid of people like our guvment likes to have us. Does not help that you have hate radio and other talking heads and yakkers demonizing and making the easily cowed even more so.

  • hickoryduck

    That’s kinda going out on a limb, don’t you think?
    -
    Not at all. You REALLY think if a white person made those comments it would have been an issue at all? If people were booted from planes every time they discussed that, EVERY SINGLE FLIGHT would have someone kicked off. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Even more ridiculous that AirTrain didn’t compensate these people in any way, except for a refund. No help getting a different flight or anything. That’s a nice juicy lawsuit right there.

  • cincinnatus est exterminata!

    Oh, the problem is that they’re not white, wealthy and politically influential, otherwise people like Klein would be writing heartfelt appeals to spare them from such ignominy.
    .
    Saw the commercial for the Homeland show. Heartfelt, celebratory rah-rah music in the background while the voice over talked about the men and women of Homeland Security protecting America and freedom and our loved ones and blah, blah, blah. I puked right there and then. Americans are so delusional.

  • cincinnatus est exterminata!

    Holy Crapola! CNN is reporting that Larry Kudlow said something in the WSJ! This changes everything!

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I hope it features one Homeland Security Agent who “goes by the book” and has only one more year to retire and one who “lives on the edge” and is trying to get back together with his ex who left him because he was too dark. That’s what I hope.

  • hellslittlestangel

    Sounds like ABC is a bunch of traitors who want to jeopardize our Vaterland, er, I mean, Homeland Security by revealing the methods by which we fight terrorism. Since so many innocent people are on the Do Not Fly list, will there be recurring characters? There could be a running gag about a goofy, sheepish traveling salesman named Ahmed who has smelly feet.

  • hellslittlestangel

    Pourme: I like the way you think. Let’s write a treatment together. Have your people call my people.

  • oizydoizy

    The Irfans and Mr. Aziz are to be commended for the dignity and equanimity with which they handled the situation. Same for the FBI.
    .
    I hope they sue Air Trans’ collective ass into the poor house.

  • kbanginmotown

    @hickoryduck: Ummm…I believe that Cliff was being sarcastic…or ironic…or sarcastically ironic. At any rate, Amy qualified her outrage with a good ol’ “very likely”, in the event that a caucasian *ever* gets tossed off of a flight for speculating about which seat in an airplane is the safest.
    .
    @pourme & h*l*angel: Go for it! You both are on a roll! Us Swampfolks would be happy to provide uncredited fodder for the series.
    .
    Coffee: I especially like the “lives on the edge” angle. I got to witness a TSA agent toss out an old lady’s 12-oz Pepsi just before Christmas. Dang. At that moment, I felt soooo much safer knowing that she would not be burping next to me….Just think if the “on the edge” agent would *gasp* allow her to keep the bottle! Ciaos!
    .
    @Amy: In all seriousness: is this the sort of story you will simple comment on? Or, is this an issue (having a religious angle) that you will pursue to a greater extent?

  • kbanginmotown

    simple==simply

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    @kbangin – Will do!

  • Art Pepper

    Can I assume the ABC show is part of the Pentagon’s domestic propaganda effort?

  • wvng

    Kbang: @pourme & h*l*angel: Go for it! You both are on a roll! Ditto.
    .
    Another possibility, “Homeland Security – Bush” is ripe of for a Police Academy type treatment. Recurring character could be "Robert Johnson", the name recurring anyway, with a different one every week. And of course HLA’s “Ahmed who has smelly feet.”
    .
    More seriously, seems to me I heard the Obama team wants to change the DHS name to something less Nazi Germany-ish.
    .
    Finally, Amy, thank you for this post. I would ditto kbang a second time (that sounds pretty bad, doesn’t it) – this is a story worth pursuing.

  • Cliff

    Ummm…I believe that Cliff was being sarcastic…or ironic…or sarcastically ironic.
    .
    Let’s say sarcastic, because I have no idea what irony means any more.
    .
    Yes, the only way this incident and Sullivan’s “very likely” comment would NOT be completely ridiculous is if the guys had said “What’s the safest place to sit on the plane WHEN WE EXPLODE IT TO DEATH” while cackling and rubbing their hands together.

  • Amy Sullivan

    This does indeed fall right in my baileywick–it’s an issue I’ve been following for a while, and I’ll be writing and blogging more about it in the future.

  • Art Pepper

    Also, it’s a known fact that terrorists discuss what they’re going to do while sitting in the plane before it takes off.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    from the source article

    .

    Ellen Howe, a spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration, said the pilot acted appropriately.
    .
    “For us, it just highlights that security is everybody’s responsibility,” Howe said. “Someone heard something that was inappropriate, and then the airline decided to act on it. We certainly support [the pilot's] his call to do that.”

    .
    Just like any other Bushie this woman still doesn’t see that anything innappropriate was done. I am wondering if this could be considered a hate crime since the primary reason these people were harrased was because of their faith. Maybe somebody can check in to that. Some how I would bet that if it does classify you will have a lot fewer people over reacting like this.

  • hickoryduck

    @hickoryduck: Ummm…I believe that Cliff was being sarcastic…or ironic…or sarcastically ironic.
    -
    Well you just never know these days. Hmph.

  • wvng
  • Cliff

    So irony is the opposite of smoking dope while skiing topless. Got it.

  • g_crush

    .
    AS: “Homeland Security” premieres on ABC next week.
    .
    Wake me when season three of Dexter comes out on DVD. Homeland Security is just begging for a Reno 911-style sendup.

  • formerlyrainbow68

    I guess some of us are still skittish about Muslims and planes. It does seem a pretty weak reason to boot everyone off and make them miss their flight. I know we Americans were called on to be the eyes and ears to help in the … I don’t know after 9/11, but this is so over-the-top. What would’ve been a balanced way to handle this incident?

  • stuartzechman

    Amy Sullivan:
    _
    Thanks for highlighting what we all know: that the TSA’s policies, administration, culture and communications are at best farcical and at worst a bungled Soviet apparatus.
    _
    A question, though: Why was the department not named “Domestic Security” or “Interior Security”?
    _
    Seriously, who came up with “Homeland Security”? Did they know how redolent this phrase is with “The Fatherland”-type implication? What individual coined this term? Any ideas, Amy Sullivan?

  • jamillah2008

    I wear niqab and abaya, and I’ve flown out of DCA on several occasions, and I have to admit that for the most part I’ve never had any problems. The TSA screeners have been professional (although there’s one supervisor who seems to have confidence issues with the screeners and never believes they’ve checked me properly).

    On the plane, I’ve been eye-tracked down the aisle by the odd strange guy who can’t seem to make up his mind just what he’s seeing, but they’re not FAMS guys.

    Other than that, it never really seems a problem. I’ve had conversations with the people sitting next to me about the most mundane things, religion never even comes up and if people have fears, they keep them to themselves.

    The paranoia is really daft. If terrorists are going to make a move on planes again, they’re not going to look like terrorists, or even middle-eastern – we can only hope they’re ones so incredibly stupid they talk about it as they get on the plane.

    (And for the record, no – no-one has told me I “have” to wear niqab, no – no-one “forced” me to wear niqab, and no – I don’t think “everyone” should. Oppressed I might go with, though – the lack of legroom on planes should be declared a crime against humanity!)

    That last was sarcasm, for the sarcasm-impaired :)

  • exile500

    I believe that this has all been caused by the hostility of the far left towards people of faith.

  • formerlyjames

    yeah exile, the near and far left did it to destroy jesus. I think there must be more to this story than has been reported. It just doesn’t make sense. Then again, what does nowadays? Whatever, to be truthful, I watch middle eastern looking people on planes like a hawk. Call me racist, call me stupid, call me of little faith, but you doesn’t have to call me jack. Stupid is the word, I think, remembering t. mcvey of okla. city fame. If all that the msm has reported is true, this is a shameful.

  • ewstephe

    i personally think the real concern here is that “Homeland Security” will in some inadvertent fashion reveal some national security secret. that worries me a lot more than Muslim air travelers worried about seating arrangements.

  • dwn2004

    Those who are concerned about the effect that the show “Homeland Security, USA” will have on the broader discussions on immigration, the war on drugs or the war on terror should have little to fear, because Homeland Security, USA will wear out its welcome before it’s ever given a proper welcome. Yes, what many fear is true: the show is a propaganda piece for the Department of Homeland Security — I know because I worked on every single episode– but the quality of the shows’ images, characters, stories, moments or dramas are neither compelling enough to sustain mass viewership nor are capable of influencing opinions. Though the show’s producers sold their objectivity for access, they forgot the most important factor in anything that piques the public’s interest: the entertainment value. Therefore, since the show is yawn inducing, it is devoid of any value to anyone; the producers, ABC, Homeland Security or much less the American public.

  • shepherdwong

    After the Great Nailclipper Collection and Bottled Water Relief programs, it’s hard to be more cynical about our “security theater”. Not to mention that they finally hardened the cockpit doors after it was proved that non-hardened doors plus aware, defiant passengers would defeat that particular threat (now what do they do if the wrong people get on the other side?).

    But this isn’t about government PR or catching terrorists (even on 9/11 they weren’t wearing “long beards and hijab”) this about xenophobia and airline customer relations.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    If anybody is up and still cares its Game Set Match for Burris. The media just found out that Harry Reid called Blago BEFORE he was arrested to specifically tell him not to pick 3 black men. Triple J, Danny Davis, and Emil Jones. Its over. Stick a fork in him. Insert your favorite euphemism but Burris is definitely getting seated now.

  • gysgt213
  • gysgt213

    I knew Reid was a f**kup but man this is too rich.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    LOL I just thought about something. Remember the other day when Blago had asked Danny Davis to take the seat. Man if he had said yes Harry Reid REALLY would have been phucked.

  • gysgt213

    SG-Since Blog seems like Blago followed Reid’s wishes since he didn’t pick any of Reid’s don’t picks. So who is tainted now?

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    gysgt
    .
    NOBODY lol. I just want to see how much ass kissing Harry Reid is prepared to do to defend himself. How many black folks are in Nevada anyway?

  • Art Pepper

    From the Sun-Times article: because he did not believe the three men were electable. He feared losing the seat to a Republican in a future election
    -
    Here’s an idea for the Dems not to lose seats: Get their ####ing act together.

  • gysgt213

    This sh*t is funny as hell. I can’t wait until Tuesday when they make matters worse.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    gysgt
    .
    You don’t understand. Its literally over. No way in hell he bars Burris now. NO. WAY. IN. HELL.

  • gysgt213

    SG-I understand. I just want Reid to put the final nail in his own coffin.

  • gysgt213

    Blogo ran rings around Reid on this one. After this report. He’s lapped him.

  • yutsano

    This does indeed fall right in my baileywick–it’s an issue I’ve been following for a while, and I’ll be writing and blogging more about it in the future.

    I swear I’m not beating up on you Ms. Sullivan but it is bailiwick. If it helps, most of the best writers I know are crappy spellers.

    Sgw: How does Reid back down from all his bluster about not seating Burris now? And if he calls a hearing to check the appointment is that just CYA? Blago is a tool, but a smart one.

  • cfukara

    AM:
    ” .. Throw in a few meal vouchers to cover the cost of some Cinnabons and then we’ll be getting somewhere… .. “

    That is getting away with it too easy – with no brutal lesson learnt.

    Do we want this vicious, terrifying profiling repeated and repeated and repeated and … ?

    Compare:
    The grizzled war-mongers – especially Kissinger – got away with adventurism in Vietnam too easy. That bred murderous adventures Haiti, Grenada, Panama, … Iraq, …(.. Sabra & Shantilla, Gaza, ..)
    AND
    The US Supreme Court got away easy with legitimizing the incarceration of US citizens of Japanese descent in concentration camps. That made it easier for the Supreme Court to assume a laid back stance as Bush#43 incarcerated and tortured and … at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and Baghram concentration camps.
    Vs:
    They didn’t get away with it easy: Germans (WW2, Auschwitz, Deutchland uber alles), Japan (and communism)

    .

    Compare:
    Brutal price paid (per victim) by Libya for the downing of the passenger plane over Scotland. [ .. and US didn't even bother to apologize for killing the daughter of Libya's ruler Gaddafi, in a missile strike ...]
    Vs:
    Easy price paid (per victim) by USA for downing the Iranian passenger plane.

    Does brutal retribution discourage recidivism?

    .

    After the recent Mumbai bombings, BHO issued a statement denouncing the “hateful ideology” of the attackers.

    OK. With regard to members of USA’s murderous Christian KKK and the terror-spewing Aryan brotherhood, are we going to declare them terrorists who have a “hateful ideology” – and have them face the full wrath of, eh, democracy?
    [Or are the Bible-wielding Christians of the (current) crusades in Middle East exempted from "hate"?]
    Are we going to pursue terror and terrorists all over the world while terror and terrorists thrive and prosper right here in homeland USA?]

  • babs29

    I don’t think those meal coupons and cinnabons are of any use…I wouldn’t put it past AirTran to have halal meals. They wouldn’t even know what the heck halal was…

    The BJP-Bharatiya Janata Party, in India, gets itself elected on the basis of hate ideology. They be no terrorist though, they be the US’ friends.

  • FlownOver

    “Homeland Security” = “Cops” minus any pretext of constitutional restraint, plus a patriotic pretext, all for a fraction of the cost of “Desperate Doctors” et al.
    .
    Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    My experience with DHS suggests that they spend more energy protecting us from Chinese broom handles than they do protecting us from undocumented Chinese immigrants.
    .
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/phd9/408060400/in/set-72157594565763211/
    .
    Of course your results may vary.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Harry Reid called Blago BEFORE he was arrested to specifically tell him not to pick 3 black men.

    I’m hearing reports that Reid also supported Clay over Ruben.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “Reid declined to reveal the specific names discussed, saying he didn’t want to embarrass anyone.”
    .
    A bit late for that Harry.
    .
    The case for Reid to be majority leader was always “sure he is no firebrand but he is such a shrewd political operator and parliamentarian.”
    Oh for two.

  • wvng

    PNNTO: The case for Reid to be majority leader was always “sure he is no firebrand but he is such a shrewd political operator and parliamentarian.” Oh for two. I honestly can’t remember a single instance where he impressed, where he outplayed “the opposition.” Based on his performance, I’m not certain who exactly he thinks is the opposition. It does not appear to be his “friends” the republicans. It may well be the democratic wing of the democratic party. When he was elected, did the Repugs play a Brer Rabbit game with the Dem caucus?

  • Paul-no not that one

    wvng-I should do some checking but Reid MAY have been more effective as a minority leader.
    Like with Daschle the Democrats picked their leader from a “purple” state and so the leader is hamstrung right out of the gate.
    I assume there is a strategy behind that but it escapes me.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    [Also posted in the post below] A serious question: is it really clear that Madigan/Duckworth are significantly more electable than all three of Davis/Jones/Jackson? Maybe so, but it’s not to me. If it isn’t, I’m not amused by Reid’s comment. Does he hold some kind of baseline prejudice against black candidates that is not based on data? Moreover, if he is in general terms “right” that a black candidate faces tougher obstacles in a statewide election, is it really alright for the Majority Leader of the Senate to be lobbying against their candidacy — essentially reinforcing cultural disadvantages. Reid must be held to account for his reasons here.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    PNNTO
    .
    I thought they picked him mostly because of seniority. That would be the only reason that makes any sense in my eyes because he is frikkin horrible. People keep saying the Majority Leader is hamstrung but I don’t remember ANY Republican Majority Leader every saying “we just don’t have the votes” over and over again to avoid a fight. Man right now I am just waiting for the Congressional Black Caucus which I believe Danny Davis is the head of or at least a higher up in to release a scathing race baiting statement. And this time it will actually be somewhat justified. Even after sleeping on it I am still stuck on WTF?

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Man oh man do I bet Danny Davis wishes he had said yes now to send a big phuck you to Harry Reid. This is gonna have residual effects down the road. Don’t forget that Triple J WAS on PE Obama’s list of potential candidates. So why was Reid against him?

  • wvng

    PNNTO, in my memory of Dems as the minority opposition, the words feckless, clueless, weak, spineless, capitulation, lapdogs all come to mind. Effective does not. Very few members in the Dem caucus push back publicly in a way that scores political points and makes the opposition even the least bit uncomfortable. Help me out here; my list includes Feingold, Leahy, Dodd (on occasion), Kennedy, . . .

  • gysgt213

    “in my memory of Dems as the minority opposition, the words feckless, clueless, weak, spineless, capitulation, lapdogs all come to mind.”
    .
    And in the majority. Even worse. How is that friggin possible? In my opinion the dimbos wasted the 2006 election right out of the gate and aweful damn lucky Bush didn’t suddenly decide to try competent for 2007-2008.

  • wvng

    sgw: I don’t remember ANY Republican Majority Leader every saying “we just don’t have the votes” over and over again to avoid a fight. Ditto – they never avoided a fight. They embraced fights, they embrace sticking it to Dems at every opportunity. In fact, it may be that the classic Christmas Kangaroo SNL sketch explains the relationship between the senate’s Repugs and Dems perfectly.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I give Jesse Jackson (Jr. or Sr.) to cut off Harry Reid’s nuts.

  • bitterpill8

    All one has to do is listen to Mitch McC. He doesn’t sound defeatist. He is already gassing about wanting to do this and that about the spending bill. And he has 42 votes. We are truly cursed with our Senate leadership. I can find no reason for explaining why Reid ever became leader. I am not even sure how many “Democrats” there are on our side when push comes to shove.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    wvng
    .
    That was CLASSIC and very very appropriate.

  • Paul-no not that one

    If I remember the idea was that Durbin would be the “bad cop” to Reid’s pro-life milquetoast cop.
    Angling for Beltway approval I suppose.

  • wvng
  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Blagojevich spokesman Lucio Guerrero confirmed that Reid (D-Nev.) and U.S. Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) — the new chief of the Senate Democratic political operation — each called Blagojevich’s campaign office separately [Link]

    “Thank you, Blago, I’ll have another. Whack!”

  • Paul-no not that one

    From Reid’s first statement after being elected leader
    “The speaker of the House has to be aggressive,” Reid said. “It’s like the British Parliament. If you’ve got the votes, you ram it through. But the Senate works differently.”
    .
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/14/AR2006111400637.html
    .
    “There’s nothing I can do!” Way to come out swinging Harry.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Shorter Reid
    .
    Republicans PLEASE oppose me!

  • gysgt213

    Reid’s going to be giving his weak azz mealy mouth talking points on at least one of the talking heads shows tomorrow. I can’t watch.

  • gysgt213

    Back in December one of Nate’s users asked the following.
    .
    Reid has the power as majority leader to require actual filibusters – you know, reading the phone book for 19 hours on the senate floor. It’d also make it clear to the media and the public who stopped a piece of legislation – meaning that the story line changes from “Reid unable to find 60 votes” to “McConnell reads phone book for 19 hours to stop vote.”

    Why does nobody talk about that option? Why doesn’t Reid exercise that option? Everyone is so stuck on “60 votes” as if it means something, but 51 votes is all that matters to pass legislation.
    .
    Nate’s response was deadon.
    .
    B.R. raises several interesting points, but they ultimately point back to one thing: Harry Reid has been exceptionally ineffective as the Democrats’ majority leader.
    .
    The number of cloture votes skyrocketed in the 110th Congress following the Democratic takeover of the Senate and Reid’s assumption of the majority leader position. The Senate voted on 112 cloture motions in the 110th, exactly double the number (56) of cloture votes in the 109th Congress, and two-and-a-half times as many as the average number of cloture votes (44) over the previous nine Congresses. Of these cloture motions, 51 were rejected (meaning that opponents of a bill succeeded in blocking an up-or-down vote) and 61 were passed.
    .
    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/12/is-60-votes-overrated.html

  • wvng

    gunny, if it helps, K-Tum says she would like to report on a real filibuster.
    .
    I know Pelosi was/is frustrated beyond measure at Reid’s weakness, but has anyone here heard a single democratic Senator publicly push for filibusters?

  • gysgt213

    “I know Pelosi was/is frustrated beyond measure at Reid’s weakness, but has anyone here heard a single democratic Senator publicly push for filibusters?”
    .
    That would be no. What do I win?

  • wvng
  • sevenoaks07

    Letter and docs from Burris attorney to Reid & Co published in Politico. The gauntlet has been thrown.

  • wvng

    gunny, would the satisfaction of being right be enough?

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    I just keep thinking back to how everyone thought I was going overboard about Reid when it came to Lieberman. At least the man is consistent. I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t come out and ask Franken to just let Coleman sit in the Senate for a little while until the election is certified. What a maroon.

  • wvng

    sgw: I just keep thinking back to how everyone thought I was going overboard about Reid when it came to Lieberman. Not everyone. I was with you all the way. It was always about the optics, about Dems caving again.

  • wvng
  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    OT
    .
    Man I am sure the wingnuts are overjoyed at this. Israel just bombed a Mosque in Gaza and get this, they did it while 200 people were inside praying to Allah. Dammit Hamas stop killing erybody!
    .
    snark
    .
    http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Israeli_airstrike_destroys_Gaza_mosque_killing_0103.html

  • commentator76

    I fly AirTran every so often. Maybe next time I’ll ask their person at the gate the safest place to sit. I’ll report back what the treatment is for a Republican looking white guy.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I just keep thinking back to how everyone thought I was going overboard about Reid when it came to Lieberman.

    Dude, you were overboard about everything when it came to Lieberman. That you were right about Reid does not mean your hatred for Lieberman is not beautiful horror.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    Thats only because you never went any deeper in my posts than I was just angry at Lieberman. It wasn’t really Lieberman I was mad at, it was the Senate Dems for accomodating him. Go back and look if the threads haven’t been sucked into the black hole and you will see that. Lieberman is part of the reason that Katrina and Blackwater were never investigated let alone the politicization of the DOJ. But it was Harry Reid and the Senate Dems who chose to accept his past failures and then hand him back his gavel simply because he was going to jump ship to the Republicans. Like I said then, thats not new politics, thats more of the same. And now I can honestly say in our more current vernacular that it was pay to play. Harry Reid just wasn’t caught on tape.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    @sgw – I am just trying to get your goat. I’ve got special combs here to groom it. :;

  • Cliff

    Can we all agree now that Reid is a feebleminded milquetoast who gets regular asswhippings by school girls?
    .
    And I know all us DFHs agree on that, I’m just hoping everyone else can stop pretending Reid is a competent person.

  • shepherdwong

    “And I know all us DFHs agree on that, I’m just hoping everyone else can stop pretending Reid is a competent person.
    .
    Why would they? They’re still pretending that “conservatism” is a respectable governing philosophy and Republicans are a responsible political party.

  • ivb3016

    Is anyone ever going to be brave enough to declare that since the cockpit doors were secured, there is less need for some of the theatrical measures? And that the liquid scare was another one that was exactly that — a scare. There was never proof that their idea would have worked.

  • Paul-no not that one

    60 Minutes recently had a segment on TSA during which they interviewed the head of the department.
    .
    When correspondent Lesley Stahl asked Kip Hawley, the outgoing head of TSA, if all this is really necessary, he wanted us to know that the terrorist threat has not gone away.

    “This is war. These people are trying to kill us. They got on the planes in September 11th, 2001, killed 3,000 people. And they will do it again as many times as they can,” Hawley said
    .
    It is that kind of reasoned argument that leads to what happened on Air Tran.
    .
    P.S. BOO!

  • Paul-no not that one

    Sorry, here is the link to the 60 Minutes story.
    .
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/18/60minutes/main4675524.shtml

  • Art Pepper

    So regarding Reid. The Blago thing is just a distraction, but I’m concerned the Dems in the Senate will allow the GOP to sink Obama’s various initiatives. I never once believed we would get universal healthcare; but I would like to see a stimulus package, investment in green tech, and maybe something about the impending global warming disaster. So what can the cra-a-azy leftwing blogsphere do? Push back on the media? (Maybe if the Dems were shamed into doing something.) Angry letters to our senators?
    -
    I know it’s early to speculate, but I also feel that Obama doesn’t have that much time. The GOP will attempt to reassert itself in 2010. As someone here said, the death of the GOP is greatly exaggerated.

  • Art Pepper

    pnnto: That’s the mind-set that leads to people being charged for “planting a hoax device” (LiteBrite) – ie, for not doing anything remotely related to terrorism.

  • wvng

    poureme (or may I call you P-Caf?), I wonder if sgw’s goat that you want to get is Mickey Kaus’ special friend? And would you, in fact, comb Kaus’goat?

  • wvng

    Speaking of Mickey’s goat, this is my favorite of all the posts on the subject.

  • wvng

    Art said: Angry letters to our senators? That just makes them happy. Proves that they are serious people because the dfh’s are angry. I do wish I knew the answer to that problem, just as I wish I knew the answer to solving the feckless, dem-destroying-for-kicks chattering class problem.

  • Paul-no not that one

    wvng–I think the word “habitually” really makes that sing.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    @wvng – Combing my pony right now. I’m going to name it “Harry.”

  • rose83

    Reid is unbelievably stupid. Also, Madigan is not a good choice anyway. She has shown terrible political instincts throughout this whole thing. As for the three men, Jesse Jackson Jr. is not electable and I don’t know enough about the other two. But if you’re going to specifically name them as poor choices you cannot name two white women as the only other options! If Reid doesn’t like those three, fine. But he had to name at least one other person of color he supported, especially with the vague “electability” comments he made.

    Assuming the conversation was reported accurately, I can only assume Reid somehow managed to overlook Obama’s victory and is convinced that African-Americans are not electable.

    Is anyone ever going to be brave enough to declare that since the cockpit doors were secured, there is less need for some of the theatrical measures? And that the liquid scare was another one that was exactly that — a scare. There was never proof that their idea would have worked.

    ivb, No. We like being paranoid and irrational. Seriously, it’s disgusting to see this kind of racism in the name of security when children without health insurance who are facing real dangers are virtually ignored.

  • wvng

    P-Caf – that was one of atrios’ ponies!
    .
    PNNTO, speaking of habits and goats, where is MS these days?
    .
    But seriously, here is a fine post from the Great Orange Satan on a center-right nation.

  • Art Pepper

    wng: Yeah. I write them mostly to vent. Actually, I do think that writing to my two senators can influence them a bit, if they are wavering on an issue. I mean, if they know their constiuents are passionate about a particular issue. But realistically, voters can only nudge the dial a couple of degrees either way. For the most part, they don’t listen to us. (eg, on torture, Cantwell sends out the same bland form-mail reply every time, and Murray doesn’t respond.)

  • Cliff

    Why would they? They’re still pretending that “conservatism” is a respectable governing philosophy and Republicans are a responsible political party.
    .
    I’ve been trying to figure out a way around this logic and I just can’t do it. If we can pretend that Republicans haven’t sh!t the bed, then we can pretend that Reid isn’t the Number One Senate Slapnuts.

  • Paul-no not that one
  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    What I just posted on Nate’s site
    .

    You yourself just proved that if Harry Reids main concern was “electability” then Duckworth was no more “electable” than Triple J. Really thats enough said when you think about it because it proves the fallacy of his argument that he just wanted someone electable appointed. He phucked this up and no matter how many polls are listed it still comes back to that plain and simple fact.
    .
    By the way, if Obama does a good job in the next two years any Democrat he would support in Illinios would win that job hands down AND Triple J WAS on Obama’s list of prospects for his seat. To not point that out is pretty disengenuos if you ask me.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Not to get bogged down in this again, this topic brings out not always the best, but to project out who will be electable in two years is a silly game.
    .
    Add to that running as an incumbent and it makes dour predictions even less credible, I think.

  • rose83

    P-NNTO, actually my point was about his… unconventional statements. Actually I’ll be more blunt: His sexist and racist (yes) and tasteless comments. I doubt his past statements would hurt him in an election, but there’s too high a chance he’d make similar gaffes in a future campaign which would cause problems. Every level you rise in politics, the more important it is to watch what you say.

  • Paul-no not that one

    You’ve made your feelings clear on JJJ, Rose I just wanted to add Nate’s take on that subject,

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    rose83
    .
    Fortunately not everybody feels the same way about Triple J as you. lol

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Jesse Jackson, Jr. was on Obama’s nice list. How can he be on Reid’s naughty list? Obama is the leader of the Democratic party and it’s his seat from his home state. How is Reid not off the ranch given that? Are you kidding me?

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Israel just went into Gaza

  • rose83

    Fortunately not everybody feels the same way about Triple J as you. lol

    I honestly don’t know if your blind spot is on Jesse Jackson Jr. or sexism (which would lead you to overlook his exploitation of the Katrina tragedy), but either way it’s not my blind spot. At some point it’s necessary to say, No I won’t tolerate that. I won’t tolerate blatant prejudice and the exploitation of real peoples’ deaths.

    And I won’t tolerate Reid’s prejudice against his African-American colleagues.

    Maybe it’s watching Mad Men again (amazing commentaries!), but I don’t want to go back to that time when the victims of prejudice were supposed to demurely laugh it off. He said something disgusting and I won’t forget about it because of convenience.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I support some of Israel’s actions more than others here at Swampland, but I confess I don’t understand Israel’s ultimate objective here. Is there a secret, fully-formed rational government waiting to be installed just as soon as Hamas is swept away? I understand why they want to be rid of Hamas; I just don’t understand why they think this will accomplish that goal. This is the Middle East – there are plenty more militants waiting in the wings, particularly when Israel is supplying the ingredients to make more.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    rose83
    .
    You are the Jesse Jackson Sr of “sexism” and I will leave it at that.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Yeah, what exactly is the endgame here? And why the timing? When it comes to matters Middle East I am completely lost.

  • rose83

    I support some of Israel’s actions more than others here at Swampland, but I confess I don’t understand Israel’s ultimate objective here.

    pourmecoffee, their actions suggest they are looking for more violence and conflict – i.e. if Hamas is eliminated a more radical group will take their place, leading to more war. But that just doesn’t seem plausible. Who actually wants war? My best guess is that they are sincerely miscalculating.

    SG, exploiting the deaths of Katrina victims wasn’t sexist.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    There are elections coming up in Israel. If you ask me its pretty much as simple as that.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    rose83
    .
    Today is the first day you have brought up Katrina in relationship to Triple J. Every other time the first thing you post has been about sexism which of course you did again today. Just because YOU think he exploited the deaths of Katrina doesn’t mean EVERYBODY does. Hell he made a valid point, where were the tears for Katrina. I know I cried them. But I didn’t see Hillary Clinton on Tee Vee demanding the federal government step up to the plate and help the people of New Orleans at the time, but she for DAMM sure pointed out Katrina as a Bush failure on the presidential campaign trail. So who REALLY exploited the Katrina victims?
    .
    It is what it is

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    There are elections coming up in Israel. If you ask me its pretty much as simple as that.

    I understand the political calculations, but you can’t just waive away the full range of issues. Israel must take seriously the act of war. They depend on U.S. support, and with a new administration coming in and world sympathies turning sharply against them, it’s just not rational to dismiss this offensive as a tossed-off “tough guy” move to rile up the right-wing base. This is a deadly serious move during deadly serious times. It’s fine to disagree with Israel on this move (as I do), but it’s not fair to simply dismiss their concern over these missiles as a decoy. Please don’t do that. That’s what I find so frustrating. Let them be wrong, but don’t characterize them as “wanting war,” “only in it for the money,” “sadistic wardens,” and the like. Let’s engage Israel and Palestinians as humans – right or wrong, but not insanely inhuman. That’s my beef with this whole Middle East debate. Israel is wrong, not evil.

  • rose83

    Today is the first day you have brought up Katrina in relationship to Triple J.

    No, I have brought it up many times before. Perhaps not with you, but you’re a relatively recent arrival on Swampland. I remember seeing it for the first time and just being shocked that he was going there.

    he made a valid point, where were the tears for Katrina. I know I cried them.

    How would you or anyone possibly know if HRC cried over Katrina? Did she cry over the Tsunami? What about 9/11? It’s just the dumbest accusation. What we DO know is that she was not crying over her appearance.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    Here is what you aren’t getting. The rockets hadn’t killed anybody before Israel started their air strikes. Hamas enforced a ceasefire with Israel whereby the rocket attacks went down to less than one a day since July. All during the ceasefire Israel was planning this military action. Israel killed some Hamas people who were going through tunnels to Egypt reportedly to get weapons they say to get supplies, I honestly don’t know which. But in a ceasefire that usually means you actually cease, fire. During the ceasefire Israel refused to open the borders to the Gaza strip creating very poor humanitarian conditions.
    .
    Those are all facts pourme. They don’t jibe with what you think the facts SHOULD be but that doesn’t change the truth in them. If you can’t come up with a rational reason for these attacks then maybe YOU aren’t considering enough possibilities. Everything Israel has done in the past 2 months has made them less safe instead of more safe. There ARE elections coming up and its important for all involved to LOOK TOUGH. Again you have an all or nothing mentality akin to right wingers and the Iraq war. “Surely Bush didn’t really just want to kill Saddam and get the oil” Well guess what, now Bush AND Cheney that WMD be dammed they really just wanted to get Saddam. Just because I say Israel is wrong, doesn’t mean they are evil. And it for damm sure doesn’t mean Hamas is right. It means Israel is WRONG. I will give you every penny I own if you can find any statement where I said Israel was evil. Every. Single. Cent.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    rose83
    .
    REALLY? How do we know that? Because she told us? LOL
    .
    OK

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    @sgw – As I said, I oppose these attacks and was arguing that it was more complex than simply electoral posturing (“as simple as that.”) If that’s all it was, then Israel is evil. Killing over electoral politics is evil.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    Does that make America evil? Or does it mean Bush and Cheney are evil. There is a major difference.

  • rose83

    Let’s engage Israel and Palestinians as humans – right or wrong, but not insanely inhuman. That’s my beef with this whole Middle East debate. Israel is wrong, not evil.

    pourme, True. Although I think the election may play a key role, not because Israeli politicians are evil and don’t care about killing people if it gets them elected, but because it must bias their thinking, perhaps even unconsciously. We are all humans, with cognitive processes that are easily influenced by our environments, desires and prejudices.

    REALLY? How do we know that? Because she told us? LOL

    SG, Well… yeah. She did tell us why she was crying: she felt the importance of the election and America’s problems at a personal level. Look, she may have been lying. Maybe she’s a better actress than she showed in her campaign commercials and it was all a plan to win NH. But she wasn’t crying over her appearance.

    I’m signing off…

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    rose83
    .
    Yeah like she didnt start the “Obama is a muslim” rumors or release the Rev Wright tapes or get Stephonapolous to ambush Obama with Bill Ayers either huh?
    .
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    @sgw – Re: America. I don’t know. As I said, I was attempting to rebut your point that the aerial and ground offensive was motivated solely by electoral politics. I believe there are also (misguided) motives related to self-defense/deterrence over the missile attacks. That’s my point. I oppose Israel’s current actions, but I think it’s a mistake to completely dismiss their point of view as invalid in the process. I would have encouraged the same discipline in May of 1948 when it was the Arabs who attacked and were in the wrong. This region is full of that kind of pendulum insanity — periodic total condemnation of the parties. Israel is totally wrong in this assault. I just honestly feel in the Middle East it is important to maintain the discipline not to completely dehumanize the party where your affiliations do not naturally lie.

  • James, Los Angeles

    .

    “It’s difficult to have visited with those whose lives have been shattered by Hurricane Katrina and feel that they were well served. At every turn, I encountered our fellow citizens with desperate questions and few answers. The bureaucracy created by moving FEMA under the Department of Homeland Security is clearly not working. That’s why I am introducing legislation to make FEMA an independent agency again so that our nation is truly prepared to respond when our citizens need our help,” said Senator Clinton.

    DLC: Clinton Unveils Legislation to Restore FEMA to Independent, Cabinet-Level Status.
    .
    I’m just sayin’.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    Why do you keep saying missle attacks? Have you actually seen what Hamas is launching at Israel? I am not trying to be funny here but the normal conotation of “missle” don’t fit. Did you see the clip I posted the other day of the youngturks showing a picture of one of the rockets? I know a lot of people would rather not hear an opposing view but it actually was very informative.
    .
    Because I think politics was the primary reason for the Israel military activities doesn’t mean I don’t think there are other factors going on as well. But mostly they all come back to politics. If you say well they were retaliating for the rocket attacks then my question is why didn’t they work in good faith to extend the cease fire that was successful in damm near eliminating any rocket launches. I would also ask why military plans were being drawn up during the cease fire which was working BEFORE the rocket launches restarted. Now are regular citizens in Srderot in danger when Hamas is launching dozens if not hundreds of rockets a day into their city? OF COURSE THEY ARE. But shouldn’t that mean the govt of Israel should actually try to do something to stop it OTHER THAN military force that might actually work? Like I have been saying from the get go, to say that this was just retaliation or even mostly retaliation for the rocket attacks grossly over looks what restarted the rocket attacks AND the relative calm that existed during 5 months of the cease fire.
    .
    And you still haven’t had anything to say about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza created by Israels decision to close the borders.

  • rose83

    Yeah like she didnt start the “Obama is a muslim” rumors or release the Rev Wright tapes or get Stephonapolous to ambush Obama with Bill Ayers either huh?
    .
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


    Oh, I get it. You’re just biased against her (I have no idea why; I’m not saying it’s because you’re sexist, so please don’t claim I said that) so you believe or tolerate paranoid accusations against her. Like she released the Wright tapes after it was virtually mathematically impossible for her to win. Seriously, she had a bad campaign team but they weren’t that stupid.

    I actually agree with you on Israel more than pourme, but he’s right about the importance of basically accepting that people are human and not trying to demonize people. It’s something we all need to do in general. I just find this eagerness to accept paranoid accusations about people – whether they are Palestinians, Israelis, Muslims on airplanes or Hillary Clinton – incredibly frustrating. Common ground should be something we search for, not avoid at all costs. On that note, if Jesse Jackson Jr. ever offers a sincere apology for his comments I’ll happily reconsider my opinions about him.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I don’t know how many more times or ways I can say I’m against these current actions. I’ve said it several times above. Yes, I’ve seen the missiles. Still, I think this: Israel has real concerns about them that are not a decoy or solely related to electoral politics. You said it was as simple as that; I was responding to that flat statement. I think they are a serious issue, one that must be preserved as real so it can form the basis of rational negotiations after this whole current mess is over. I think Israel has been drawing up military plans every day since May 15, 1948. You are wrong, I have commmented on the humanitarian crisis.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    rose83
    .
    Like I said, you are the Jesse Jackson Sr of these threads in my eyes. Go back and see the things I said about Clinton being Sec of State. I am not predisposed to not like her. Hell I think her husband did great things in thhe 90s. But I am also not an idiot. You can keep worshiping her picture on your wall all you want to, Mark Penn was her campaign manager. Enuff said.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    Because it is as simple as that for me. If there weren’t elections coming up in Israel I honestly don’t think they would be hitting the Gaza strip. If you say they would then thats fine. I whole heartedly disagree. So if the elections are the proximal reason why the military actions are happening then to me it really is as simple as that. Think about this for a moment, before the cease fire in July Hamas was launching rockets like they are now, but it was before Israel’s prime minister announced he had to step down because of corruption charges. Why do you think they didn’t order a military assault THEN but are ordering one NOW?
    .
    As for your statement on the blockade of the borders in Israel causing a humanitarian crisis, you said you had no idea whether it was true or not. That wasn’t exactly acknowledging it IMHO. I mean we all have google right? It shouldn’t be that hard to look up sites like the International Red Cross and see what THEY have to say about it. Or do you think they are lefty libruls too?

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    As for your statement on the blockade of the borders in Israel causing a humanitarian crisis, you said you had no idea whether it was true or not. That wasn’t exactly acknowledging it IMHO. I mean we all have google right? It shouldn’t be that hard to look up sites like the International Red Cross and see what THEY have to say about it. Or do you think they are lefty libruls too?

    I give up. I don’t appreciate you putting labels into my mouth in a conversation where I am arguing against such labels.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    As for what I meant by not knowing what is true and what is not, I mean exactly what you meant:

    Israel killed some Hamas people who were going through tunnels to Egypt reportedly to get weapons they say to get supplies, I honestly don’t know which.

    The difference being I didn’t label you.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    Did I label you? go back and read again. Don’t forget that you were throwing around labels like “extreme” and “true believer” just the other day and then turned around and called Jay Carney’s mom a slut. Sorry, the “I am offended” act doesn’t work after that.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    @sgw – I’m not offended. I just didn’t call anyone a “lefty librul.”

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla
  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla
  • ivb3016

    I’m not sure that the actions of Israel don’t have as much to do with the change in administration here as they do with the coming election there. They know there will be no reprimand from Bush, probably think things will continue just fine with Obama, but just in case they would like to force him into a public commitment to them.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla
  • rose83

    Like I said, you are the Jesse Jackson Sr of these threads in my eyes.</I.

    I’m really tempted to make that my handle…

  • cfukara

    ivb3016 Says:
    ” .. but just in case they would like to force him into a public commitment to them. ..”

    I am a tempted to retort with “why not against them?”
    On foreign policy matters, BHO’s presidency is on course to be the worst presidency – even eclipsing BUSH#43 by the end of his first term.
    Start with his appointments .. totally one-sided … with epic tunnel vision. New war fronts opened up in the Middle East, the holocaust against the Palestinians in the final stages, “regime changes” and fresh undeclared wars in South east Asia, Africa and Asia and the onset of a new cold war with Russia … And all that will have an effect on the economy he will have spent lots of borrowed money. And that will feed int the need to control more of the world’s resources (and more wars and instability in the world..)

    Gloomy? I hope so.

    I heard on an NPR book review that monsters live among us good neighbors: They do their terrible deeds during the day and then go home to be nice to their cats and loving to their kids. He may have a vicious side: BHO’s rhetoric may be uplifting, but – like the current and past Christian crusaders – he can, and will, do terrible deeds.

    Thus sayeth the resident voodoo futurist.

  • singleinnova

    You go girl !! Well written. I am sure if a “white” person said the same thing it wouldn’t have been an issue at all. I am sure the airline personnel would have help them seat in the “safest” place. People are so afraid of muslims these days. I am sure they are all terrorists !! That last statement was sarcasm for those who are sarcasm-challenged. I hope i was PC there :) I hope those people sue airtran and make them come to their knees. Glad to see AirTran atleast apologize after a day. I am sure it wasn’t because it was the right thing to do but some one up top didn’t want the bad publicity and how much it will cost to pay up when they will eventually loose the case. Remember, the incident happenned in DC and am sure AirTran figured it will loose a case if it ever came to trial.

  • http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/01/06/flying-while-muslim-the-prequel/ Swampland – TIME.com » Blog Archive Flying While Muslim, the Prequel «

    [...] by Amy Sullivan | Comments (0) | Permalink | Trackbacks (0) | Email This Last week we read about a Muslim family that was removed from an Air Tran flight because of “inappropriate comments” that in fact are similar to questions many newbie flyers ask, [...]

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