Latest Column

It would be interesting to know if Obama is consulting with Bush 41 as well as with Scowcroft. That would not be a bad thing. One of the many outrageous mistakes GWB made was spurning (scorning?) his father’s advice in world affairs.
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I can remember in ’92 thinking I could. not. endure another four years of GHWB, but he seems positively competent and statesmanlike by comparison – and in truth his difficulties were mostly domestic, not foreign.
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And it’s interesting that (according to Zbig on Morning Joe) Brzezinski was “a supporter but not a consultant to” Barack Obama during the campaign.

How much real leverage does any President have on Israel? Thus far they have run rings around us. They do what they want to do and we are reduced to tut tutting, making specious threats and engaging it bits of nudge-nudge wink-wink on the side. Other have caught on to this game. PE Obama will have his work cut out to take a different position, even with Scowcroft, Powell and others there is little appetite for a tought stance.

more of the same village tripe from Klein.

A few rockets launched from Gaza into Israel (none of which killed anyone) is an “outrage” that justifies the slaughter from the skies of hundreds of Palestinians. The neverending, literal siege and blockade of Gaza by Israel resulting in a humanitarian crisis –a true “outrage” — goes unmentioned by Klein.

kathy
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Iran Contra
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Thats all I have to say about GHWB

The U.S. is responsible for 90,000+ civilian casualties in a preemptive strike against a non-aggressor Arab nation in the name of strategic self-defense. It’s going to lecture Israel on the topic?

Correction: 90,000 deaths.

Spot on, pmc. Could not have summarised it better. Gaza was, is and shall be an “open” prison.

Time Magazine, 2001: “the grown ups are back in charge. Time Magazine, 2009: “the grown ups are back in charge.”
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A small favor– if the Obama administration starts invading a bunch of countries and making every other country in the world hate us, could you please ask a few tough questions? Thanks in advance.
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This is a good column, and a key insight– when Josh Marshall highlighted Gates’ relationship month or so ago, it went a long way toward changing my opinion on Obama retaining Gates. Thanks also for highlighting Time’s lack of prescience in 2001. At that time, I wrote something like, “Colin Powell’s advice and diplomatic experience will be of great value to the incoming administration.” So, yeah. Mistake made, gotta learn from it.

I heard an interesting snippet of an interview with Bush on the radio the other day, in which he was asked why he didn’t consult with his father about foreign affairs. He rather quietly said: “I don’t know why.” Or something similar.
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But really, any honest discussion of the Bush administration properly starts – and ends – with the Cheney. Bush was simply his clay to mold. As Wilkerson said the other day:
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"He became vice president well before George Bush picked him," Wilkerson said of Cheney. "And he began to manipulate things from that point on, knowing that he was going to be able to convince this guy to pick him, knowing that he was then going to be able to wade into the vacuums that existed around George Bush — personality vacuum, character vacuum, details vacuum, experience vacuum."

seven says: “How much real leverage does any President have on Israel?”
Probably not much. Especially since we got ourselves into a Middle East boondoggle ourselves, we are more reliant on Israeli intelligence and covert ops than ever. Satellite intel only gets you so far. They – the Israelis – got us by the short-hairs and they know it.

A small favor– if the Obama administration starts invading a bunch of countries and making every other country in the world hate us, could you please ask a few tough questions? Thanks in advance.
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Elvis, not to worry, they will this time. Remember that it is now a Democratic administration and they have been champing at the bit to “hold him accountable!!”

What Joe Klein said yesterday
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(The current offensive has also sent Hamas a significant message from the neighboring moderate Arab countries, especially Egypt: don’t expect any sympathy from us.)

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What Bloomberg said the day before
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601116&sid=azteGyguAWdE&refer=africa
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Egypt, the first Arab state to make peace with Israel, is accused by protesters on the streets of the Middle East of collusion with Israel’s offensive in Gaza.

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snip
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Several regional leaders took to the airwaves of Al-Jazeera to accuse Egypt of collusion in the Israeli operation that has so far killed at least 370 Palestinians and wounded more than 1,700. Lebanese Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah singled Egypt out for criticism in a televised speech on Dec. 28.
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Hezbollah Call
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Nasrallah called on Egyptians to defy their government and go out in their millions to protest the Israeli strikes and force open the Rafah crossing into Gaza. Hannibal Qaddafi, one of the sons of the Libyan leader, used Al-Jazeera to censure his country’s neighbor for not allowing in aid to the Palestinians. Egypt later said its airports were open for aid to Palestinians.
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Al-Jazeera ran round-the-clock interviews with analysts and activists who lashed out at Egypt as well as Israel. Today, demonstrators in Yemen broke into the Egyptian consulate in Sanaa and vandalized furniture. Other rallies, in Amman, Beirut, Damascus and Tripoli, headed toward Egyptian embassies.
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Even countries that often stay clear of the Israeli- Palestinian conflict, such as Algeria, called on Egypt to open its border. Domestically, the Egyptian government faced similar pressure.
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Students burned Israeli flags at Cairo University, while members of professional unions, including doctors, lawyers and journalists, demanded the expulsion of the Israeli ambassador and an end to Egypt natural gas sales to Israel. The Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s largest opposition group, decried “official silence.”

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Today from RawStory
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TRIPOLI (AFP) — Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi has called on Arab states to take a firm stand and boycott Israel because of its onslaught on the Gaza Strip, the official JANA news agency reported on Wednesday.
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Speaking to foreign ministers of the five North African Maghreb states in Tripoli late on Tuesday ahead of an Arab League meeting in Cairo on Wednesday, Kadhafi also branded a league peace plan a “plot” and a “masquerade.”

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Also today from Reuters
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UNITED NATIONS, Dec 31 (Reuters) – Arab countries called an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council on Wednesday to debate the violence in Gaza, demanding in a draft resolution an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants.
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The evening session adjourned without a vote being called and diplomats said negotiations would be held in coming days over the draft, which Western delegates described as unbalanced and focusing almost entirely on Israel’s actions.
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The resolution, presented by Libya, called for “an immediate ceasefire and for its full respect by both sides.” It also demanded protection for Palestinian civilians, opening border crossings into Gaza and “restoration of calm in full.”
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It denounced “the excessive, disproportionate and indiscriminate use of force by Israel” but its only mention of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel was a vague reference to “the deterioration of the situation in southern Israel.”

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Great frikkin job Joe “the Journalist”. May I present you with your clown shoes.

sgw: Don’t believe everything you read. A lot of your snippets is PR. Each of these players have political reasons to be doing what they’re doing. Most don’t care what happens to the Palestinian people, whom they view no better than sewer rats.
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Poor people in this world are as useless as cannon fodder. 200 people in the Congo were killed on Monday. Not too many headlines about that. Hezbollah and Quaddafi couldn’t care less about 400 deaths. But they will use it to their advantage, of course of course.

Like everything else in the region, complex:

Moderate Arab states generally allied to the United States blamed Palestinian disunity for the crisis and more radical states, some of whom did not attend, urged collective action to defend the Palestinians against Israel. [Link]

In retrospect, U.S. bungling of Palestinian elections which resulted in Hamas coming to power will be one of the signal failures of the Bush administration.

In the most striking comments, Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister, Prince Saud al-Faisal, criticized the Palestinians for their inability to remain united behind President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah — an implicit condemnation of Hamas, which took over Gaza entirely in 2007 in a brief but violent civil war with Fatah. Normally, during periods of Israeli-Palestinian fighting, Arab leaders only condemn Israel. [Link]

It does no good to play Villains and Saints in the Middle East.

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nibbly
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A UN resolution is not PR. And regardless of if they were ALL PR stunts they still refute Joe Klein’s declaration made in his post yesterday. My point was made pretty clearly I think.
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Oh and go ask the people at the Egyptian Embassy in Yemen how much of a PR stunt that was.

sgw: That poor people in other Arab countries feel for the poor people of Palestine is understandable. Doesn’t reflect POLICY or the chessboard of the Middle East. What did the Yemen government say? (I really don’t know the answer to that, but notice how quiet all the region’s governments are about the offensive. Only Syria and Iran are squawking.)

We may have grownups back in the room soon, it remains to be seen if they can get the unruly children in line. The mid-east is a big puzzle, it is difficult to determine the facts. It may be time to get the children to stop worrying about who shot whom with a pea. They need to start showing their manners. Otherwise, we are doomed to hear their excuses repeatly.

Maybe we should stop sending the children guns.

nibbly
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Maybe you didn’t read this the first time so I will repost. Notice the S on Arab countrie(s). You can think post you want to post about your opinion on who thinks what but when you are done please explain why the Arab countries that have a block seat at the UN Security council table pushed for this resolution. That they did so is a fact, not an interpretation.
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UNITED NATIONS, Dec 31 (Reuters) – Arab countries called an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council on Wednesday to debate the violence in Gaza, demanding in a draft resolution an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants.

We may have grownups back in the room soon, it remains to be seen if they can get the unruly children in line.
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Uh, they’re not kids, and we’re not “The Adults” of the world. Even if Obama & Team turn out to be incredibly competent, that’s not going to automatically make them more mature and wiser than everyone else.
This sort of condescending “we Americans know better than everyone else” attitude doesn’t help us at all.

200 people in the Congo were killed on Monday.
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F–k me! It’s Mass Murder Mondays every week at the Congo Lounge!
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(Entirely lacking in taste, I know, but what do you say to that sort of thing?)

sgw: sadly the Arabs know how to play this game, too. Call for a Security Council meeting; denounce Israel and do nothing practical about giving help to the Gazans. The Israel FM says Gaza has plenty of food (BBC World). Is that a bald faced lie? No one called her on it? Spokesman for Abbas, who is also heading for NYK just condemned Israel. Denunciations but precious little practical help seems to the SOP. This too shall pass.

sgw: Your headline doesn’t signify which Arab countries called for the emergency session. It wasn’t Egypt or Jordan, I assure you. It was Syria and Iran. They have their reasons.

Your headline doesn’t signify which Arab countries called for the emergency session. It wasn’t Egypt or Jordan, I assure you.

<b<Wrong.

Egypt’s U.N. Ambassador Maged Abdelaziz, on behalf of Arab Group of nations at the U.N., asked for the emergency council meeting on instructions from Arab League foreign ministers who met in Cairo earlier Wednesday. [Link]

Like I said, complex.

nibbly
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Listen I encourage you to read up before you post. The Arab countries collectively have one seat at the UN Security Council and Iran and Syria aren’t even a part of that delegation. Right now they are lead by Libya and they brought it to the table. Here read this so you don’t “assure me” of anything else that you are just puling out of your ass.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE4BU4H020090101

Only Syria and Iran are squawking. [Link]

Hard to take your points seriously after that statement. As I note above, moderate Arab nations have uncharacteristically pulled some punches normally thrown at Israel. But, the above statement is just ignorance.

Ahhh, Libya.
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Well, pour and sgw, I stand corrected. I’m sure Libya has nothing but altruistic motives in this.
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There’s what’s reported and there’s what’s not reported. What is said, and what is done. Let us know what the outcome of those meetings are, will you, sgw?

@nibblybits – Let’s try again, shall we:

Egypt’s U.N. Ambassador Maged Abdelaziz, on behalf of Arab Group of nations at the U.N., asked for the emergency council meeting [Link]

I could point out that Prime Minister Maliki who WE INSTALLED in Iraq has called for all Arab nations to cut all ties with Israel including “secret” ones, but that might be seen as piling on.

sgw: You think Maliki is ours?

nibbly
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I can’t be your newspaper but the meetings of the Arab nations are over. Hence the UN Security council resolution which they agreed to. Right now you are pretty much exhibiting willful ignorance so I see no more reason to try to convince you when like a child you are just putting your hands over your ears so you won’t hear something you don’t like. It is what it is.

nibbly
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If Maliki wasn’t ours he wouldn’t still be breathing. Trust and know that. Don’t forget that Saddam was originally “ours”

sgw: Meetings over. Situation changed?
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Sorry, if you think I’m being “willful(ly) ignorant”. I’m just surprised that you believe everything you read.

Just a Happy New Year to everyone!

nibbly
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I don’t believe everything I read, but at least I AM willing to read. But you keep on keeping on in that all knowing bubble of yours over there. I am sure there is no need for you to challenge your own beliefs.

@nibblybits – I disagree substantially with sgw on Middle East issues, but you can’t be so flagrantly wrong here and not get called out. Back to school.

pour: According to your link, Egypt “called” for the meeting. Why haven’t they opened their borders?

@nibblybits – I am rebutting your earlier false statements, documented above. I can’t tutor you further without compensation.

pour: Did I not acknowledge standing corrected regarding Libya? Why would Egypt so publicly “call” for a meeting, as you so helpfully point out, and yet not open their borders, solving so many of the problems Hamas and the Gazans face?
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Just wondering. Tutor me just this once.

@nibblybits – You were corrected regarding not just Libya, but Egypt and all of the stupidity inherent in your “Only Syria and Iran are squawking” statement. No, I won’t tutor you further.

But, pourme, I am so dumb and you are so smart. Can’t you explain why Egypt might have some reason not to help Hamas by not opening its border (which they can so easily do)? Why Livni, Israel’s foreign minister, went to Egypt last week to meet with her counterpart, Abu Gheit? Why now that Arab media is pointing fingers at Egypt, they might want to “call” a meeting, as you so kindly “schooled” me? That it looked really good, and yet the border is still not open? What’s going on? I don’t know and you do.

@nibblybits – No. Those are complex issues about which you have not made an embarrassingly wrong statement that needed correcting.

So, here’s an easier question: Which side is Egypt on?

It’d be nice if the native Arabs (Palestinian was created by Arafat) would realize how much they are being used as tools by various Arab governments across the planet. They have a very legitimate beef sure but they need to wake up and realize Israel is there to stay. And the Israelis need to recognize the solution won’t come at the end of a gun. Both sides will have to give something up period. Israel needs to dump any nationalistic ideas of Eretz Israel and the native Arabs need to recognize Israel period. But as long as Arab governments can use both Israel and the native Arabs as pawns in their own power schemes very little will change that dynamic.

*So, here’s an easier question: Which side is Egypt on?*

Theirs.

Yutsano: there is Mubarak’s Egypt and the Brotherhood’s Egypt: and never the ‘twain shall meet. Then there is the Arab world of sheiks/emirs and assorted despots with token parliaments or whatever.

It’s like crickets in here. Pourme? Don’t you want to “school” and “tutor” us morons?
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You’re very good about pointing out a link to refute my “embarrassingly wrong statement” without interpreting for us what it means. Egypt called a meeting. So are they on Hamas’ side? Are they squawking? Why don’t they open the border? Please jump on this opportunity to correct my “stupidity”.

And both sides use the native Arabs to distract the street from their true activities. It’s so much easier to point to the infidels who dared to seize Arab territory than to try and prop up their economies or expand opportunities for their own people. And what could be easier for a religious leader than a cause to rally their followers to? Israel is the gift that keeps on giving, and negotiating a true and lasting resolution is not in Arab governments’ selfish best interests.

Just as a reminder to anyone who came in on the tail end of this.
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nibblybits said.
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sgw: Your headline doesn’t signify which Arab countries called for the emergency session. It wasn’t Egypt or Jordan, I assure you.

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pourmecoffee replied
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Egypt’s U.N. Ambassador Maged Abdelaziz, on behalf of Arab Group of nations at the U.N., asked for the emergency council meeting

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End result?
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EPIC FAIL

Yes, sgw, it’s *my* understanding that is the failure here. Frankly, the sequence of posts is very conveniently mapped out here, and people can decide for themselves.
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I applaud you, though. I’m glad you have the capacity to believe what you believe.

sg – I’ve tried to pay attention to you guys’ discussion, but my mind keeps classifying this as a Giant Clusterf–k. I can’t make heads or tails of any of it.

What can I say, Cliff? My post #22 set off a sh*tstorm. Pourme and sgw were incensed. Back to school for me, as pourme says.

nibblybits: *Back to school for me*. The school is right here on this board. I have learned a lot simply by engaging and I hope, in the spirit of the New Year, you will. We all take something away from Joe Klein’s posts and the comments.

Cliff
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Don’t worry, just remember the old axiom “Ignorance is bliss”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/01/as-israel-pounds-gaza-egy_n_154671.html
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As Israel continued to slam strategic Hamas military positions and the labyrinth of smuggling tunnels between Egypt and Gaza, many Egyptians spoke sharply about their government’s close cooperation with Israel and the United States. This development must be troubling for Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.
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The current conflict highlights a long simmering tension between the Mubarak government’s deep ties with the U.S. and its traditional role as leader of the Arab world.
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In Sheikh Zowayed, seven miles west of Rafah and the Gaza border, a brigade of ambulances plowed through vast roadside puddles shuttling the wounded from Gaza to the town of El Arish for medical attention.
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That Egypt has even opened the border to receive the wounded is evidence of the government’s ongoing internal conflict. The Egyptian government has continuously reevaluated its border policy, sometimes accepting and other times rejecting those injured in the bombing raids.
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While Israel and the U.S. would prefer that Egypt permanently close the border with its Palestinian neighbors, Arab countries have cried foul over Cairo’s seeming refusal to relieve the tension in Gaza, which is among the world’s most densely populated territories.
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The Arab press has carried a barrage of reports charging that the Mubarak government has not been tough enough with the Israelis.

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Angry mobs in Lebanon and Yemen in the past week have stormed Egyptian embassies to protest the country’s Gaza policy. Even in ordinarily calm Egypt, a spate of demonstrations has broken out in recent days to protest not only Israel, but also the policies of the Egyptian government.

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Like Diddy said, its all about the Benjamins baby.

sg:
What, you’re getting on my case about this too?
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I’m not allowed to be confused by a 60-year old conflict between half a dozen nations and two dozen more foreign interests (all of whom have hidden intersts and are practiced at deception)?
Does Party Doctrine dictate that I must know the finer points of how Jewish and Muslim theology impacts their conflict?

Cliff
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What makes you think I am getting on your case?

Don’t worry, just remember the old axiom “Ignorance is bliss”

BTW
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The few leaders in the Democratic Party that have actually spoken on the I/P conflict like Speaker Pelosi have echoed Bush so I don’t think Party Doctrine dictates anything in this situation.

Cliff
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Look back at what you said. You were talking about the conversation that was already going on. I wasn’t referrring to you with that statement.
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As far as knowing all the intricacies of a 60 year conflict, honestly who really does? See the funny thing (and again I am not talking about you) is whenever anyone says something in any way shape or form supporting the Palestinians then either they are labeled an anti Semite or people say they are taking sides. I am NOT taking sides on this situation. I am calling a spade a spade. I couldn’t care any less about what happened 60 years ago, but I do know 6 days ago Israel launched a dispproportionate attack on a group of people that have no credible means to defend themselves from it. I also know that Israel broke the ceasefire. I also know that prior to the ceasefire being broken Israel blocked assistance going into Gaza and had the residents of the Gaza Strip living just above starvation levels which is against the Geneva conventions.
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But I also know that in the past Hamas has used suicide bombers and after the ceasefire was broken the launched hundreds of “rockets” into southern Israel. But I don’t feel the need to draw a false equivalence here. Hamas rockets have killed something like 8 people in recent years. The death toll in Gaza which includes innocent civilians, women and children, is now over 400. That is by very definition disproportionate.
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I also know which goes back to my first post today that Joe Klein was full of sh1t yesterday when he asserted that no Arab governments were sympathetic to the residents of the Gaza strip. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. And lets be real here, while they are pissed about Gaza they all know our current cowboy jack ass president would attack them in a HEARTBEAT if any Arab nation retaliated against Israel. Hell for that matter I am not so sure that Obama wouldn’t do the same thing. But there is no denying that many Arab countries have already voiced their dissapproval and have taken their concerns to the UN Security council. Hell the UN Secretary General HIMSELF denounced the attacks by Israel and ordered them to stop. Of course they gave the UN the middle finger because again they know they have the backing of the biggest bully on the block, US.
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I don’t really think its all that complicated unless people make it that way. You don’t have to be a middle eastern scholar to see some wrong sh!t and say “hey man, thats wrong”. Thats all I have said since last week and what I will continue to say.

All right, then, I apologize, I misinterpreted your statement. It sounds like we’re pretty much in agreement on Israel’s role here.

Megan McArdle (!) summarizes the situation pretty well, IMO.

seven: I was kinda being facetious about being sent “back to school” comment. I find the hijinks on this thread, and some of the taunting of this nature, a bit immature, so I was responding wryly.
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I don’t agree with a lot of pourme’s and sgw’s positions, but really that’s ok. I think we can certainly agree to disagree without getting into the personal insults. I only quoted them because I find them absurd, more suited to the playground than a discussion board. I did chuckle at them.
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sgw: I appreciate your passion on the subject, but perspective counts a bit, history counts a bit, interpretation counts a bit. I don’t agree when you say this: ‘I don’t really think its all that complicated unless people make it that way. You don’t have to be a middle eastern scholar to see some wrong sh!t and say “hey man, thats wrong”.’ Without context, without circumstances, without the undeclared information, it’s not so simple. Or at least I don’t think so.
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Keep fighting the good fight though.

On topic, what the column describes is what we already knew via the presidential campaign, if we were paying attention–that Obama is one of the Serious People, who believes in American Exceptionalism, an axiomatic underpinning to the Great American Hegemony Project.
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This translates into, for reasons that I don’t understand fully, support for Israel, and for reasons I pretty much think I understand, permanent occupation of Iraq.

Megan McArdle has clown shoes with this statement
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On the other side, there’s a tendency to forget, or forget to mention, that whatever the provocation, a plurality-to-majority of Palestinians constantly and actively wish to kill large numbers of Israelis purely for revenge.

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I would love to see her justification for that statement with anything other than the Hamas charter. The funny thing is Fatah used to rule the Gaza strip and Fatah now has relations with Israel and still control the West Bank as well as the presidency of Palestine. Bigger than that there are many Palestinians IN THE GAZA STRIP who don’t agree with Hamas. But hey why not just keep making broad sweeping statements that nobody will question. Its worked so well in the past right?

Has George f**k up 2009 yet? Sorry, I was passed out.

seven: being accommodating? Not always welcome. All in all the point is that neither nor Hamas is pristine. There is a lot of hypocrisy to go all round: the US, Europe, the Arab World, The Iranians, Israel and Palestine. None of these people actually feel the hurt and pain of the man who lost five daughters. But they go into “we are so sorry” mode almost reflexively. Frankly it is a plague on all their houses. Only Israel can protect it borders. And only Palestine can fight back against the settler expansion. Until the West Bank and Gaza unite they will continue to picked off by Israel.

Megan McArdle: bullshit artist. Look, the Israelis want to kill Palestinians and vice versa. Wow: we have really advanced the argument. The low level of American intellectual output, no matter its source, is our curse. The Atlantic need to clean up its act. As does Marty Peretz’s TNR. It is really awful that a bunch of our intellectual elite sit at their computers and provide us with bromides. This gang should be sent, like I was, to serve two years, in I-rak! Then they can come back and give us superior bs. I need these a##holes to actually come under fire before they pontificate.

As my comment awaits moderation let me just say that after serving two year in Iraq I give little credence to Megan McArdle and other wiseguys who sit before their computers and prescribe solutions.

JayAck, if he didn’t believe those things, or at least pay lip service to them, he wouldn’t be President-elect right now. Self delusion is rampant among the electorate…not for long though.

Well, Cinci, I think the whole Serious! business* is enforced by donors and the media, and what goes on in the electorate is an effect, not a cause.
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Also, nibblybits, you said something about Egypt’s role that turned out to be completely false. You may well have some perspective and insight to offer, but you were proven wrong, Judy-Miller wrong, on an assertion you made. I was actually going to say to sgwhiteinfla that I thought he was unnecessarily harsh to Klein early on– Klein may’ve accurately characterized what Egypt’s government wanted to do, but it has received pressure from its populace as the crisis has gone on. But he was dead right about Egypt’s role in getting an emergency session. You can’t just chalk that up to differing perspectives.
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* — Note: link goes to something not at all serious, linked at Atrios’s place sometime in the past day or so.

Just passing this on for any who are interested. Ten Israeli Human Rights orgs are posting on a particular blog the situation in Gaza.
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http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/2758

Joe,
 
Interesting article. But in the graphic at the top of the page, why were Obama and Scowcroft both portrayed as Yoda? Given Scowcroft’s failed attempt with G.W. Bush, it brings to mind the line from the movie: “There is another”. Therefore, it seems fitting to me that Obama should have been done up as Princess Leia.

Elvis, I guess it’s chicken and egg time. Were politicians exploiting know-nothing jingoistic tendencies in the electorate? Or were those tendencies in fact carefully nurtured by conservative political elites? I have to say I believe it to be the former, so I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree if I take your meaning correctly.
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F the Conchords….Crazy Dogggz rule!

Yeah, Cinci, that conversation can go on forever.
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The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
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Right now, the arbiters of respectability, like Tom Friedman, <a href=”http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/12/8/134317/872″”every serious Democrat” in the Senate, and the bulk of the Council on Foreign Relations have been proven friggin’ wrong about everything, so in theory there’s a window for change. But Obama is an incrementalist, not a boat-rocker. We shall see.

Obama is also channeling Scowcroft’s management style, described as follows by Gates in his memoir:

A dogged defender of the Presidency, Scowcroft’s lack of egotism and his gentle manner made possible the closest working relationships with other senior members of the national security team. Further, the strong individuals who ran State, Defense, CIA, and the other key institutions of national security trusted Scowcroft as no other National Security Adviser has been trusted–to represent them and their views to the President fairly, to report to him on meetings accurately, to facilitate rather than block their access to the President. Scowcroft ran the NSC and its process as it should be run (457-58).

More at http://xpostfactoid.blogspot.com/2008/11/son-of-bush-sr-obama-prepares-for-state.html

ZB (who can spell it?) is a dangerous foreign policy idiot. This is his foreign policy book: Russia is never right, Isreal is never wrong. The End.