Okay, Now They Are Just Bragging…

These pool reports from the Obama press office are killing me. Note the time on this one:

Dec. 26, 2008
Pool report No. 3
Kailua, Hawaii

The wonderful Samantha Tubman called a lid at 9:27 a.m., so your pool is
returning to Waikiki Beach. President-elect Barack Obama is not planning
other movements today, but if he decides to leave home again your pool will
be called back to Kailua.

Philip Rucker
The Washington Post

URGENT UPDATE: The lid is blown! Cue the Drudge Siren! Having survived his brush with seaweed and Spam, the President-elect now apparently has been in close proximity with an “interactive dolphin.” High Sheriffs, I implore you: We must dispatch a correspondent (preferably one with the seasoning, judgment and razor-sharp reflexes of, say, our National Political Correspondent) to Hawaii at once. Look what we have already missed: Dec. 26, 2008
Pool report No. 6
Waimanalo, Hawaii

President-elect Barack Obama and his daughters Malia and Sasha left Sea
Life Park about 1:40, after spending 90 minutes at the marine amusement
park. Pool is now in motorcade and may make another stop before returning
to the Kailua vacation home.

Your pool was not allowed inside the park. Obama did not pose for pictures
or talk to reporters, but your pool could see him, the daughters, his
half-sister Maya and several other family friends leave the park from the
interactive dolphin area.

Tourists who were inside showed the pool photographs they took of
President-elect Barack Obama and his family and friends. Obama is wearing a
casual cream-colored shirt tucked into olive shorts and sandals.

The Obamas and friends were seen attending the dolphin show, the tourists
said. It is unclear whether the Obamas swam with dolphins, and Obama’s
clothing did not appear wet.

When they left the park, about 50 park guests, many wearing life vests,
stood near the motorcade to see the president-elect. When he came out, they
screamed, “We love you, Obama” and “Obama Ohana!” (Ohana means “family” in Hawaiian.) Obama stood and waved at them and smiled.

Several kids joined Malia and Sasha, as well as several adults. Your pool
has been promised a full list of those attending the park with Obama and we
will distribute that when it’s available.

More to come. Stay tuned.

Philip Rucker
The Washington Post

There’s more! Money changing hands! And a blatant attempt to bribe the Fourth Estate. Paging Patrick Fitzgerald:

Pool Report No. 7
Hawaiikai, Hawaii
Dec. 26, 2008

Pres-elect Barack Obama and his family and friends at 1:55 entered the Koko
Marina Center in the Hawaiikai neighborhood near Honolulu for a sandwich
and shave ice. Obama entered Koko Marina Paradise Deli and said, “So what
are we going to get?”

“Let me get a tuna sandwich,” Obama said, asking for it on 12-grain bread,
tomatoes and no mayo.

“Actually, can you melt cheese on that?” He asked. “Can you make like a
tuna melt with cheddar cheese?”

Obama then approached the pool to say hello. He placed his shoulder on this
pooler who was scribbling notes and said, “You don’t really need to write
all that down.”

Then Obama walked with Sasha,
Sasha Obama, wearing a purple, yellow and white dress, to Kokonuts shave
ice. There were mobs of dozens of onlookers swarming the crowded parking
lot snapping pictures and saying hello. Obama waved, said hi, merry
christmas. At one point on the sidewalk, Obama dropped his sunglasses, bent
down and picked then up.

Inside Kokonuts, Obama, with his blackberry on left hip, ordered shave ice
for the kids and friends. He told Malia, “We’re going to do it one at a
time.” Some ordered banana coconut, pina colada. Sasha ordered a medium
banana.

“Everyone, once you’ve ordered, step back,” Obama instructed the kids.

Obama pulled cash out of his wallet and Eric Whitaker pitched in to pay the
bill. Obama ordered mixed berry shave ice for Sam Tubman and offered shave
ice to the pool.

“Guys, here’s your chance,” he told pool. “No? I’m telling you, this is
really good…. I don’t think this is against policy. You want one, I can
tell.”

The pool declined the president-elect’s offer.

Then Obama, Sasha, Malia and other kids sat at a blue picnic table enjoying
their shave ice. He asked the kids, “how is it? Good?”

Michelle Obama is not here.

Were still at the shopping center. More details to come.

Philip Rucker
The Washington Post

Okay, Philip Rucker is now my favorite pool reporter:

Dec. 26, 2008
Pool report No. 8
Kailua, Hawaii

President-elect Barack Obama, his daughters and family friends left the
Koko Marina Center at 2:25 p.m. After winding along a narrow two-lane
highway overlooking the Pacific arrived at the Kailua vacation home at 3:02
p.m.

Here are two addendums to previous pool report:

Barack Obama ate his sandwich before his shave ice, saying he wanted to set
a good example for his girls by eating healthy food before dessert.

Also, note that shave ice (not shaved ice) is like a snow cone. Barack
Obama ate orange and green colored shave ice. We don’t know what flavor
that is.

After what your pool now is dubbing “Waikiki-gate,” we are holding outside
the Kailua home awaiting word on possible future movements.

Philip Rucker
The Washington Post

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  • kathy

    So is this going to mean more favorable coverage for Obama? Or is the guilt and bonhomie going to lead the pool to overcompensate with down stories.

  • kathy

    Am just remembering a few days ago Ed Henry was embarrassed when it turned out he was filing in Bermuda shorts, which his cameraman was induced to pan down and show. Yesterday he was turning it into a story, lolling on the sand and yes, just bragging.

  • Karen Tumulty

    A friend of mine who will remain nameless, but who works for a very major publication, got sent there and decided to bring her two teen-age daughters. A good move. Alas, the High Sheriffs were too cheap to send anyone from TIME. Instead, they left me here to blog about it from afar.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I have heard reports coming out of Hawaii reports of an ornithological nature.

  • maurice2u
  • James, Los Angeles

    .
    Do you think that Joe Biden’s new comm dir is overseeing the press coverage over there?
    .

  • kathy

    KT – that is the pits. But now we’re just whining, aren’t we. But that’s okay, I would be too. :-)

  • Karen Tumulty

    Maurce2u: Oy.

    On the other hand, did anyone else note this in Mike Allen this morning from the man who wanted to run those Reverend Wright ads?:

    ZEITGEIST – McCain ad man Fred Davis e-mails Politico’s Daniel Libit about the President-elect: ‘At my family Christmas dinner tonight, all 20 or so of us Republicans, all felt he was doing a very good job being bi-partisan, and not playing any games at all. All agreed, and this was a shocker. Not so good for the press, maybe, but could be very good for our country.

  • Karen Tumulty
  • hellslittlestangel

    OK, what’s a “lid”? I know they grow a lot of weed in Hawaii, but that definition is pretty archaic.

  • Karen Tumulty

    Ha! It means everyone can go off and do whatever, because the subject is not going anywhere.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Very simple. Once a “lid” is declared, everyone does tons of drugs and stares at the Drudge siren. Did you ever really stare at the Drudge siren?

  • hellslittlestangel

    Ah. And Drudge rules their world. So I guess these lids are called pretty frequently.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Ok, I’ve resisted up until now. I knew it wouldn’t be appropriate. But you’ve left me no choice:
    .
    My Christmas photos:
    .
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/phd9/sets/72157611690473042/
    .

  • Karen Tumulty

    PD: Wow. And I bet you don’t even eat spam and seaweed for lunch in Botany Bay. Are they hiring at the local newspaper?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    KT:
    Depends on whether you mean the dead-tree:
    http://www.dailynewsvi.com/
    Or The Internet-Only:
    http://www.onepaper.com/stthomasvi/

  • terrymck

    An excerpt from KT’s link at 9.: Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, on a U.S. Senate run in 2010 to replace the retiring Mel Martinez. Politico’s Amie Parnes finds that Bush is “getting green lights from would-be contributors and blessings from Republican Party leaders.”
    .
    What happened to democracy’s “Of the people, by the people”? Sounds more like communism’s “Of the party, by the party wealthy.”

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Sounds more like communism’s “Of the party, by the party wealthy.”
    Except under Communism, there are no wealthy….
    Or so I’ve been told repeatedly!

  • terrymck

    Paul: “Except under Communism, there are no wealthy….
    Or so I’ve been told repeatedly!”
    .
    Yep. And sorry to have gotten so cranky in a fun thread, and sorry also if I live way far away in the land of midwestern make-believe. It just struck me how often it is that the voters typically only get to select from a very narrow field, picked by people who already hold and want to protect their power. Obama may be the first to come along in many years who wasn’t already a member of that club, his junior senator status notwithstanding.

  • terrymck

    Oops……forgot the

  • maurice2u

    PD: One of the greatest lies ever told. This notion of system A or system B was what made them “evil countries” (as if that is even possible). In every case, and I would love for one to correct me here if I am wrong, history has shown that the failed countries or those looked upon poorly had the singular commonality of a leadership that lived under a different set of ‘rules’ than the populace they presided over.
    .
    It doesn’t matter if it was matriarchs, kings, religious leadership, military rule, communism, socialism, republics, capitalism, or anything else. Rome was the “great republic”, but Ceasar and the ruling council lived a separate life detached from the limits of the people and reality of the means. Hitler’s Germany was labeled socialist, but he and his generals were not living the impoverished life of the countryside, the same for the Soviet Union’s Stalin. Every system has it’s positives and negatives, but in the end it is not the system, it is the people. Specifically, it is the leadership becoming relatively disconnected from the rest of the people that leads to the failures of societies throughout history. Taking that hypothesis to task, see the United States of America since the end of WW2.

  • http://antiaging.reviewk.com/?p=200404 Now, They Are Just Bragging…

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  • kbanginmotown

    @KT: Ot looks like the only thing missing in Hawaii is a grillmeister…any news on whether (in the ongoing spirit of bipartisanship) McCain is available? Happy Holidays!
    .
    @pourmecoffee: Is this your idea of a alternative to Rickrolling?
    .
    @PhD9: Kool pix. Merry Christmas!

  • trifecta55

    Hanging out in Crawford in August is so much better. Obama should punish the pool when they act bad by vacationing at Bush’s ranch.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Trifecta-
    .
    This may be part of a broad Obama strategy to undermine press hatred. Who can be cranky in Hawaii? Way better than Arizona BBQ.
    .
    It’ll be great to see Tweety with the hang loose hand gesture.
    .

  • kristiia

    Uh oh – the lid popped:

    “Obama Ditches Press Pool To Take Daughters To Amusement Park

    From the Obama press pool report:

    Dec. 26, 2008 Pool report No. 4 Kailua, Hawaii
    President-elect Barack Obama left his vacation home with daughters Malia
    and Sasha about 11:45 a.m. His motorcade left without the pool, the first
    time he has done so on this Hawaiian vacation. Your pool, which had a lid,
    was not informed in time and is now en route to the Kailua home to be swept
    by Secret Service. Pool will attempt to meet up with the Obamas shortly.

    The Obamas are apparently at Sea Life Park, a marine amusement park near
    Waimanalo and Bellows Air Force Station.

    Updates to come once the pool is taken to the park.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/26/obama-ditches-press-pool_n_153623.html

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Obama takes his daughters to an amusment park without the press entourage.
    What is he trying to hide???!!!!!!

  • kristiia

    Karen’s on CNN and she is the first person I’ve heard mention that Blago would subpoena any Obama people to show he (Blago) didn’t ask for anything and they didn’t offer anything. Thank you, Karen. Common sense – it is shocking to hear it on cable news and it will make you the Queen of the Pundits.

    Why isn’t Ed running to chase Malia and Sasha at the amusement park? I wonder when they will pull out the camera to show him in a speedo.

  • FlownOver

    PD:

    Ovation twelve-string, one of Uncle Leo’s fine basses, and (I think) a white steel drum. Fascinting instrumentation. Probably not performing the Liechtensteiner Polka

  • Karen Tumulty

    PD: I completely agree. This is highly suspicious. See my updates…

  • Karen Tumulty

    also, kristiia, thanks. it seemed sort of obvious. but, whatever…

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    My in-laws are insane. Carry on.

  • James, Los Angeles

    .
    Hmm. From one of Dirks’ links, I see that the Bidens are in St. Thomas for the New Year. I wonder if Joe’s new comm dir will be there to oversee things……
    St. Thomas Source

    Dec. 26, 2008 – Vice-president elect Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, are in the Virgin Islands for a five-day vacation.
    .
    They arrived about 3 p.m. Friday and will be staying on Water Island. Rumors were flying that President-elect Barack Obama, who has twice visited the Virgin Islands, might also visit before the election, but a reliable source said that was “unfortuantely”(sic) probably not true.
    .
    Several secret service agents, V.I. Police officers and other law enforcement officials were gathered on the dock at Crown Bay.
    .
    Gov. John P. deJongh met with Biden briefly on Friday afternoon.

  • Karen Tumulty

    J,LA: i think we should also have a correspondent covering biden’s vacations. preferably one with the seasoning, judgment and razor-sharp reflexes of, say, our national political correspondent…

    plus, could i take my kids?

  • Karen Tumulty

    Or maybe TIME could dispatch me to cover Paul Dirks’ … life.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    KT
    .
    What I love is how they are now trying to make a big deal of a rumor that Rahm talked to Blago about his own seat. For instance Shuster on MSNBC was trying to make a big deal out of the report from Obama not saying anything about those hypothetical conversations. When a guest reminded Shuster that it really wouldn’t matter because the Gov doesn’t appoint that seat it has to be won in a special election he just shrugged it off and kept casting doubt and “clouds”. It is the dammed funniest thing now to see talking heads abandon all pretense of common sense in favor of pushing the story.
    .
    Thanks for once again being the voice of reason on cable tv

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I have come up with Secret Service names for my in-laws: Nailgun and Needlepoint. Trust me, if you knew them you’d be in stitches.

  • Karen Tumulty

    SG: That’s not a rumor. He DID talk to him about his own seat. As any congressman would. But isn’t that determined by a special election? This is getting really, really stupid.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    KT
    .
    Why are the pool reporters making a big deal out of not taking a beer or a shaved ice? After the tire swinging and bbq eating at John McCain’s ranch I would say that ship has sailed. Besides that are we really supposed to believe that by not taking a shaved ice that the reporter is some how more likely to report the truth? I know times are rough but jeez talk about being bought for cheap

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    KT
    .
    The rumor part is that Rahm was telling Blago who to pick as a seat warmer so Rahm could come back. And yes its determined by a special election which is what I was pointing out makes the whole storyline ridiculous. But yet and still they took it and ran with it and I am sure that they will be running with it again once the holidays are over.

  • Karen Tumulty

    SG (#38): I would totally take it. Once, however, on the rare occasion that Bill Clinton invited the pool to have dinner with him (circa 1999), I asked him to sign the receipt. He did. I don’t think the bean counters appreciated it, but it was fun.

  • Karen Tumulty

    I mean “appreciated” as in: They had a receipt signed by the POTUS, and it went through with no comment.

  • Paul-no not that one

    I am getting the sense that KT is a little post Christmas punchy. That’s a good thing.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Hey, speaking of rumors — my father-in-law is highly suspicious of his next-door neighbor’s subpar car maintenance routine. That’s the short version of the story. The long version goes two-hours minimum and includes detailed critiques of both wet and dry protocols, along with concerns about parking which take into account environmental stresses. No one needs to even acknowledge these comments; I’m just looking for alternatives to gouging my eyes out with something from the owl figurine collection.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    KT
    .
    Maybe they thought you had forged it lol

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    Just start sneezing and coughing, I am sure people will clear out and give you your space lol

  • sjberke

    KT, while I appreciate the whimsy as much as anyone, I know you are aware of what is happening in your company, let alone the economy. Forget about the High Sheriffs sending you to Hawaii; be grateful (as I’m sure you are) they are providing you a regular paycheck…instead of making you contemplate committing occupational hara-kiri as your fellow (Work in Progress) blogger Lisa Takehuchi Cullen just did.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    @sgw – You do not understand the link between proper car maintenance and worth as a human being. You are weak. I forgive you, though.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Let me tell you something else while I have the laptop here for another five minutes. To amass a truly great owl figurine collection, one must be vigilant. It is not a question of simply making purposeful purchases of owl figurines. For the mediocre, perhaps. For the commoners, I suppose. The true giants of owl figurine collection stay in a constant state of readiness, a sort of OwlCon5 of enhanced owl figurine detection. To think otherwise is to completely misunderstand the world of competitive owl figurine acquisition and management. Just so you people know.

  • kristiia

    Karen – Sometimes the obvious to us never gets mentioned on TV. We just sit out here and scream it at our TVs.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    You owe me a 2 year old heavily used laptop as this one is now smoking after I read your post at 48 and spit my drink all over it.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I’m passing on laptop privileges now, but there is one final and very important thing I want you people to know from the Land of In-laws: not all of the children of cul-de-sac neighbors are living up to their full potential. That’s all I am at liberty to say. If you would like details, I suggest you fly your ass here and clear about five hours on your schedule for some good hard judging. Bring your A-Game.

  • kathy

    What a hoot thinking about everyone’s holidays. Pourme – been there.
    .
    And PaulD – I know you’re usually pretty sunny, but I’m wondering how you could ever be anything but.
    .

  • Karen Tumulty

    sjberke:

    I am grateful, and I will miss Lisa.

  • kathy

    KT – very nice year in review on WWIR. In fact, either the program’s been getting better, or I’m biased because you’ve been on more often so of course it’s better.
    .
    If you watched it, did you notice that in the few short clips of soldiers in Afghanistan shown while David Sanger was talking, they showed Prince Harry? At least we know it was really Afghanistan, but that seemed a little odd (just before they showed Gates).

  • Paul-no not that one

    From Lisa’s last post ” Where Swampland is a virtual mosh pit” – umm was she complimenting, insulting, or observing?

  • newfloridian

    Back to reality folks. Pakistan-India – about two days to calm things down. Problem the idiot will still be in the White House if they blow up – so he may have one final chance to F things up for the whole world. Be worried folks. Very worried. Iraq, Katrina and then the world.

  • Karen Tumulty

    P-NNTO: mosh pit is a compliment, considering what goes on here. and i say that in a totally affectionate way.

    kathy: i couldn’t get the WW thing on their website. i taped that in early december, and am always interested in seeing what they do with it.

    pauld: we now all officially hate you. unless you invite us down to stay with you.

  • truevcu

    Oh poor KT, if it’s any consolation I’ve missed out on 2 opportunities to go to New York City.

  • kathy

    KT – they gave you a really big part of the campaign reflection time. I figured they’d had conversations with a few of you, and then took the bits they liked and assembled them.
    .
    Maybe they wait for a day or two to make it available – I think Friday evening is the first time it’s aired, but some stations air it later.

  • Karen Tumulty

    truevcu: i’m really, really joking. the last thing we can avoid in the current environment is to send a correspondent on a pointless trip to hawaii. in the old days…

  • kathy

    KT – this note on the transcript home says the video can be downloaded after 11:00pm Friday (with a link to the video)
    .
    http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/transcripts/

  • kathy

    I’m off to bed to try to forestall the awful crud half my family had at yesterday’s pot luck; I can feel it grabbing me by the throat. Thanks for posting over the holidays Karen

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla
  • middlegirl

    Pictures of the momentous, almost pool-free event:
    http://www.daylife.com/topic/Barack_Obama/photos/all/1

  • truevcu

    KT: are you honestly turning down the holy grail of paid vacations?

    You’ll wish otherwise when the horde descends upon DC for the inaugural

  • James, Los Angeles

    .
    Oh that piece that sg linked to. You’ve gotta feel for those poor guys who did Waco summer and winter for eight years. Where’s the justice?
    “‘What a difference a year makes,’ exults NBC White House correspondent Savannah Guthrie, leaning back in a padded armchair on a veranda overlooking the Pacific.”
    .
    Oh, the humanity!
    .

  • jagadgurusriji

    omg…seriously, I don’t even wanna start….

  • gysgt213

    middlegirl-thanks for the link to those pictures.
    .
    On another note to KT-If the press is going to continue to grandstand about not taking Obama offers. Then at some point the sprinkled donuts, coffee and BBQ are going to have to be addressed by the press. Specifically, is it better to give then received?

  • Casey Morris

    KT-

    You should think about doing a follow up on the pardon thing. Josh Marshall has some interesting bits on it, and it seems to me that Bush can’t undo, but of course, I have my own reasons for thinking so. A pardon is, essentially, a deed. Once the Toussie attorneys were notified and accepted the pardon, the thing was done. While there may be justiciable specific questions to this matter alone, the thing is done and Toussie has more than a case to be heard.
    _
    I don’t think Bush prevails here.

  • Karen Tumulty

    Casey:

    I have been following that, but also the Pardon Power blog that I mentioned in the earlier post. I don’t have enough expertise to know who is right, but this Ruckman guy does seem to have researched this pretty throughly. And he says that Bush could revoke it, with plenty of precedent. For instance:

    On December 20, 1972 (somewhat near the end of Kalt’s “Gilded Age” we suspect), Attorney General Richard Kleindienst signed a clemency warrant, as was commonly done, “by the direction of the president.” The full and unconditional pardon was not supported by the U.S. Pardon Attorney. Sound familiar? Both the warrant and the pardon that it ordered were voided. The pardon was not granted until December 5, 1973. Why? Don’t let us hold anyone back on this. Jump in and impress. Shock and awe us!

    Here, again, is the link to the blog:

    http://www.pardonpower.com/

  • Karen Tumulty

    Casey:
    .
    And here’s something from Ruckman’s answer to a commenter:
    .
    Do I think “there is a point at which a pardon is a pardon and cannot be cancelled?” No. My knowledge of clear, direct case law and history tells me otherwise. Do we “agree that there is a point at which it becomes effective?” Probably not, but I don’t really have the strong sense that that matters a great deal.
    .
    I’d love to see him go at it with Josh, but I don’t want to be in the middle of it.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Perhaps Bush is trying to have it both ways. Credit for avoiding the appearance Quid Pro Quo while effectively providing the service rendered anyway.

  • davemc321

    Sounds like pourme had the best Christmas ever!
    .
    Me, I just heard a two-day dissertation, in amazing detail, on the best route from Greeley, CO to Devine, TX. Hint: It has a lot to do with Hwy 151.

  • gysgt213

    “I’d love to see him go at it with Josh, but I don’t want to be in the middle of it.”
    .
    KT-I Josh is bringing up some legit issues. The main ones being the signing of the warrants and the public release of the information.

  • Karen Tumulty

    Gunny at #24: But isn’t that the case with those earlier ones cited by Ruckman?

  • boulderiter

    Does Time really need to repeatedly post a bunch of boring nonsense like this from Philip Rucker and all that follows. I know, he has a job to do, but it is all over the top, too cute and makes me pray that print journalism makes a come back. Delete!!!

  • Karen Tumulty

    Sorry, bould. I was just trying for something whimsical in the spirit of the season. Not everyone likes every post. But if you want something serious, try the one above this one.

  • ivb3016

    KT, I enjoyed these pool reports and think it’s a fine time for whimsy, those that don’t can skip over them. And, pourmecoffee’s comments made my morning!
    .
    Wanted to say I also appreciated you on CNN last night. Susanne Malveux seems like Susanne Malevolent with the way she keeps trying to pump up a BIG scandal from the Blago nonsense. You were a voice of reason that kept me from throwing my shoe at the teevee.

  • Casey Morris

    Well, far be it from me to jump in the middle of it (*cough, falls over self*), but if we look at this as a matter of law, what kind of law is a pardon like? Is it a contract? If so, what kind of contract?
    _
    Isn’t that the heart of any argument over this matter?
    _
    I hold that this a pardon is like a deed, and the matter turn on the serious legal matter of delivery. I believe the matter to be done once the document of order from Bush is delivered, as that is what the legal precedent they cite (in re: Dupuy). Not receipt, although receipt and notification had also taken place. Further, in the precedent case, the issue arises not once the President the, or in this case, Bush, sends the list out, but when it is was delivered. The list was clearly delivered. I wonder what those who say that this can be undone, hole the matter to be, and what point of issuance it turns upon. In Dupuy, the matter was not one of execution, as I recall, but one of deliverance.
    _

    As a matter of law, I believe a pardon is a deed. What do others think?

  • Casey Morris

    Okay, so now I have read the links you provided, KT. I didn’t want to read them until I had commented, cause it seemed like cheating somehow.
    _
    To some extent, it seems as though other argue on the issue of delivery, but don’t argue the same part. I hold that delivery occurs when it arrives at the OPA. Even if you argue that it’s not when it arrives at OPA, but when it’s unsealed, it’s still moot, as it was unsealed. Even if you then further argue that unsealed is not enough, that delivery takes place when the OPA notifies, that’s also moot, as that is what was done. The only thing you can possibly argue for Bush to prevail, is that delivery doesn’t take place until it’s delivered into the hands of the pardonee. Uh, I don’t think so, and further, that’s NOT what the precedent argues that they cite. In other words, the precedent doesn’t hold what they attempt to claim: That a person isn’t pardoned inutil delivery of the pardon into the pardonee’s hands takes place. Well, that’s not what was held in Dupuy. In re; Dupuy, the court held that the pardon wasn’t granted until it was delivered into the hands of the the DOJ, meaning the other branch of government needed it needed to be executed upon. The pardon is the power of the Executive over the power of the Judiciary. I hold that once that pardon is delivered into the hands of the Judiciary, it’s granted. Meaning, that the pardon exists as a power not between the Judiciary and the prisoner, but the Judiciary and the Executive. Being a Consitutional power, I would think that is what is at the heart of when the transaction occurs.
    _
    Let’s hear from the lawyers in the room! (and also the reporter, KT)

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    For any that are interested I think Caroline Kennedy just put the nail in her own coffin.
    .
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1208/More_Caroline_Spoke_to_Hillary_wont_run_if_not_selected.html
    .

    Dominic Carter: Okay. If he doesn’t select you, will you run, right around the corner in 2010?
    .
    Caroline Kennedy: Well, if he doesn’t select me, I would support the person that he does select. You know, I would love to do this, I feel like I have a lot to bring, and I would love to deliver for the people of New York. But, there’s, you know, many ways that I can serve, and I can, and as I have been doing. So I’m committed to, you know, keeping a focus and a spotlight on the issues that I care about: education, health care. And anything that I can do in any capacity to help the people of this city, this state where I live, you know, that’s what I’m committed to doing.

    .
    A lot of people will interpret that as her saying she is willing to be appointed to the seat but won’t fight for it in an election. I am still meh about it but she didn’t do herself any favors with that answer

  • Casey Morris

    KT@25: No, because in the earlier case we don’t know why the order was voided. Further, when he says the matter was unsupported, was it unsupported because the execution was wrong as a matter of form? And note further that the pardon was shortly thereafter regranted and reexecuted, but it doesn’t note that date, an annoying bit of cleverness and deception. It gives the date it was “granted”. So what does the author means by granted? The date that it was received by the OPA, or the date that it was received by the petitioner?
    _
    Hmmm…

  • kathy

    Casey and KT – but if, as Ruckman notes, a precedent has been set of a President revoking a previous President’s pardon, doesn’t that render moot the question of whether the President can revoke his own pardon?
    .
    Besides, since the ability to pardon is absolute, haven’t the procedures that have been put in place simply agreed-upon practices? Do they have the force of law (as if that would matter to Bush, anyway), and would they be found to be unconstitutional if they put a limitation on the President’s ability to issue a pardon?

  • Casey Morris

    Kathy@33: First, ignore all of the typos you are about to read.
    _
    The precedent case that Ruckman is citing has president revoking a previous President’s pardon, true dat, BUT, in that precedent (Dupuy) there are two important things to note: 1) There were three pardons that Grant attempted to revoke. Two of the three were granted, with Dupuy’s being revoked. On what basis did the high court hold that the President could revoke the pardon? The court held that the President could revoke the previous President’s pardon because it wasn’t delivered yet. Delivery is a big damn deal in the law. Big. Damn. Deal.
    _
    So the question before us in the case that Ruckman cites, is how is this applicable in this case of revoking a pardon? Well, it demonstrates that the court doesn’t consider a pardon an absolute done deal unless certain things happen. In this case, the court held that for the pardon to be absolute, delivery must take place. So Ruckman is basically saying, “Well, clear intent alone isn’t enough, I wonder what else the court will hold as non-absolute?
    _
    How about the time between when the President signs the warrant, and the OPA receives it, but the petitioner has yet to actually receive the piece of paper in his hand?
    _
    Or is the warrant considered executed when it is delivered? And if the pardon is irrevokable by another (as you raise), doesn’t it seem obvious that it should be irrevokable by the person granting it himself?
    _And when does it go into effect exactly? What constitutes execution of the warrant? The notification?
    _
    And what is the role of the OPA to reject, as was done under Kleindienst? (Personally, I think since the matter was never adjudicated, that has no bearing on precedent whatsoever. What more likely is the matter you raise, of past practices), especially in this case, where the Executive sought no advice on the matter whatsoever. Isn’t this a clear indication that he had no interest in the OPA’s role, except as administrative of his wishes? Is the petitioner to suffer because of sloppy and/or stupid practices? What about future petitioners?
    _
    And while this is surely going to court, will the Supreme Court even be willing to grant cert. on this matter? And while they seem to understand that they must limit the authority of the Executive, is this another area in which they need to venture?
    _
    On previous attempt to reform the Executive’s pardon authority, I think you will remember the furor over the Marc Rich pardon. Immediately after that IIRC, Hatch held hearing in a Senate Judiciary Dog and Pony Show. Nothing happened as a result. Will Hatch and others who were on the record then for being in favor of limiting this authority, now revoke their previous stand and claim that the President has more authority to revoke a pardon than they had previously argued?
    _
    I think if we go back to the testimony they sought and was given in 2001, we would find some interesting things from Republicans on this matter, and that Consitutional scholars have been on record in recent years about the absolute nature of Article II on this.
    _
    Notably absent from Ruckman’s argument and subsequent attempt to bend precedent to meet his will, are any reference to these hearings, or the fact that the one and only thing that the court held in Dupuy about why the pardon was revoked, was on the basis of delivery, and that delivery was indeed made, and execution of the warrant, in the form of notification, was already begun. Meaning, that the matter was no longer ongoing from a legal point of view. All of the legal business is expressed in verbs usages and terminology that is in the past tense.
    _
    The thing was done.
    _
    To me, what’s maybe most interesting is that the guy wanting to undo his legal mistake, is the same guy that believes that no legal mistake could have been possible in any of the folks he put tp death under the death penalty.
    _
    Just sayin’…

  • Karen Tumulty

    For the record: I think Bush should revoke it and I’m glad he did. I hope it stands.

  • Karen Tumulty

    Also, pourme, back to the earlier discussion: what about those boehm birds?
    .
    http://www.wildlifewonders.com/bopoopcobi.html?gclid=COS0hquU4pcCFQJ-xgodxDhcCw
    .
    My mom has lots of those. Do they count?

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    KT – Alright, something to argue. Birds vs. Owls. Your Mom vs. my Mother in Law. I am going to shoot straight with you. You’re not going to like this. Your Mom’s birds are way too foofy. This one pegs my Care Bear meter. Also, the only Meadowlark I like is Lemon, who humiliated your Washington Generals more than Lynndie England with a polaroid. This guy is an exhibitionist, plain and simple. Might as well be wearing a raincoat and nothing else. My Mother In-Law’s owls could peck your Mom’s birds eyes right out of their head. Yes, I am looking for a fight. It is very boring here.

  • carotexas1

    pourme, I suppose my Mother In Law’s cardinal collection would not be a match for the owls. They probably outnumber the owls, will that count?
    I do have the real thing here, Owls, and Meadowlarks.
    The mockingbirds are my favorite.
    I understand your boredom.

  • Karen Tumulty

    I don’t suppose we should introduce lladros into this discussion?
    .
    http://www.lladro.com/collections/temas-LLADRO_BY_THEME/;jsessionid=FTEDU541Y4LNFQFIDAFSFFGAVAMAUIWB

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Here is how it will happen. An unexplained sense of sheer dread. A hoot from the pitch black night. An icy shiver down the spine. The rustle of feathers. The shattering of glass. The face of terror. Chaos. Talons and beak. Struggle and surrender. Fear the owl.

  • Karen Tumulty

    SG: Wow. I want that as my screensaver. Seems like a metaphor for the state of the journalism business.

  • ivb3016

    Oh my, Boehm birds and Lladro!
    .
    pourme, you have made us feel your pain.
    .
    Having worked at Temple University for a long time, Owls were a big deal. Does your MIL have a TU connection or did she find the owls on her own?

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