Latest Column

Joe Klein
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Any chance of a post on this newly unclassified version of the report on terror from the Senate Armed Services Committee? Especially the part that holds Don Rumsfield accountable for the abuse of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan?
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http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2008/Detainees.121108.pdf

I’ve never seen a good analysis of what we should be doing in Pakistan. I know it’s complicated, but the ‘solutions’ that have been proposed all seem impotent and vague.

Not saying a LeMay approach is better, but it would be nice to develop a strategy that offered more than “put more diplomatic pressure on Pakistan.”

Perhaps instead of thinking of the situation as “the War in Afghanistan” we should begin referring to it as “the bases in Afghanistan” As in Iraq, our battles aren’t with the host governments but rather with elements of the population within these various countries. Currently the majority of enemy activity is based in Pakistan. This is why all the blather about ‘victory’ that decorated the recent Presidential campaign meant little but helped Americans differentiate which candidate was describing the situation honestly and which was lying.
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Another situation that arises when our enemy doesn’t consist of states, but of individuals with fluid loyalties is that there’s more than one way to neutralize them. All I’ll add to that thought is that being one of the few nations on earth that won’t repuidiate torture is not helpful to the effort.

Joe, good article. But the issue of Pakistan and terrorism can not be constructively addressed without pressuring the Indians to actually do something about the rampant violence against Indian Muslims. The Bombay attacks were tragic and horrible, but given the Indian government’s refusal to seriously prosecute the people who participated in the Gujarat killings of 2,000 Muslims, they were also inevitable. It’s not an excuse, but it’s just a fact that senseless violence ensures more senseless violence. The Pakistani government cannot do nothing while Muslims across the border are being treated brutally.

…and this from McClatchy (h/t Juan Cole):
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“WASHINGTON — A United Nations Security Council committee put three Pakistani leaders of the group Lashkar-e-Taiba and a Saudi operative on a terrorist watch list Wednesday as new evidence surfaced that the group blamed for the Mumbai attacks has expanded its activities and its fundraising well beyond South Asia.
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A U.N. document obtained by McClatchy said that LeT has sent operatives to attack U.S. troops in Iraq, established a branch in Saudi Arabia and been raising funds in Europe. The group may also have received money from al Qaida, suggesting that it has close ties with Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network based along Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan, the document said.”

Joe Klein:
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Part of the problem is demonstrated in the article itself.
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The headline asks the question “Why Are We in Afghanistan?”, but I didn’t see an answer to that anywhere in your piece.
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You wrote “The war in Afghanistan — the war that President-elect Barack Obama pledged to fight and win — has become an aimless absurdity.”
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You also wrote “…that raises a long-term question crucial to the success of the Obama Administration: What are we doing in Afghanistan? What is the mission?”
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You then wrote “We know what the mission used to be — to kill or capture Osama bin Laden and destroy his al-Qaeda command. But once bin Laden slipped away, the mission morphed into a vast, messy nation — building effort to support the allegedly democratic Karzai government. There was a certain logic to that…But the mission was also historically implausible…”
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You close with “Before he sends another U.S. soldier off to die or be maimed in Afghanistan, President-elect Obama needs to deliver the blunt message to the leaders of Pakistan and Afghanistan that we will no longer tolerate their complicity in the deaths of Americans and our allies, a slaughter that began on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, and continues to this day. Obama will soon own this aimless war if he does not somehow change that dynamic.”
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Like most Democrats, I’m not a peacenik, which means I’m not ideologically committed to the end of state violence for its own sake. I’m not against this or that war because I’m against all wars or the concept of war. Like most Americans, I’m supportive of overwhelming force as a last resort in critical situations posing immediate or near immediate threats to my nation’s security (note that I used the word “security” and not “interests”).
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I say this so that you will understand that my criticism of your piece is not some imagined “Well it’s one, two, three –What are we fighting for?” hippie reflex. I’m not old enough for that. I’m capable of acknowledging that which is worth fighting for.
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But Joe, you didn’t answer the question. You gave an account of how difficult the situation is, and how we’re not addressing the fundamental causes of instability in that country (and others, and the region itself). You claim that Obama needs to forthrightly address the Pakistan situation, otherwise he will be directing a war with no purpose. I don’t see how that makes any sense. Either the war has a valid purpose, in which there are successful or failed strategies that may include a new relationship with Pakistan, or it does not.
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Instead of Obama explaining to the nation (and the world) how we’re now going to be dealing with Pakistan, he should be laying out to the American people what we all have recognized over the past eight years to be a fundamental a priori requirement of our foreign policy: a clear case for war.
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If you can’t clearly answer the question with which your piece is titled, then why should the American people support Obama’s policies in this regard any more than Bush’s?

Re Previous topic:

Can Obama Escape the Taint of Blagojevich?

By MASSIMO CALABRESI / WASHINGTON

Joe, can you please send Stengel a copy of your earlier post?

Obviously Joe, the question you posed in the headline was rhetorical since there’s no sense of an answer anywhere in your piece. I’m not criticizing, but if you can’t answer after spending as much time as you have there, then we have to accept that there is no tangible reason as to why we’re in Afghanistan at this time. The only reason I can see, is to maintain the appearance of US military dominance in the world. Soft power won’t work without the perception of continued US military power and that perception is taking a beating. Moreover, since we’ve spent such a huge percentage of our fiat currency on military spending, it wouldn’t be inaccurate to say that the US Dollar is backed by the military might of the United States, so there’s that, but I doubt sincerely that we can maintain this facade much longer, not w/ a depression on.
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Jayack you asked in another thread and I’ll answer again…empires don’t volunteer to stop being empires. Reality imposes itself, often brutally.

Cincy–
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The essence of this claim is that there is no chance that the US government will be responsive to their constituents. The decision to make the Great American Hegemony Project overt by invading and occupying Iraq has had a pretty profound impact on the popularity of the project.
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If the US is still in these two countries in 2010, I think you can expect to see a number of primary campaigns.

Jesus, Massimo Calebresi….what a murderer’s row of hacks you’ve assembled here at Time Inc. Way to go!
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Jay, yeah…I get that. However, I still think ultimately that for many, it will simply be too hard to admit what is plainly obvious, that the US is no longer the baddest boy on the block. There’s an awful lot of whistling past the graveyard in this country despite recent reality checks, it’s especially hard for people of certain generations to let go of lifelong held beliefs. Is Reid up in 2010?

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Nothing we’re willing to do is gonna ‘solve’ Afghanistan or Pakistan; both places are bottomless pits that will suck up every dollar and pint of blood that we throw into them. Best case scenario is to lockdown Pakistan’s nukes, buy the best intelligence we can afford, and keep the worst elements from having any influence outside of their own loosely-definded borders.
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Maybe one day the two countries will decide to join civilization. We can’t make that decision for them.

“Why Are We in Afghanistan?” At the outset I think the honest answer was simple. We were seeking revenge. Right or wrong, revenge is why we were there. However, as a nation we either forgot or no one bothered to remind us that revenge is not a solution. Its a problem. And now, the desire for revenge has trapped us. So now the answer to why we are in Afghnistan is “we are trapped by the desire for revenge.” Simple.

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cinci: …what a murderer’s row of hacks you’ve assembled here at Time…
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I’m thinking that Scherer, Calabresi, and DFF* Halperin all sit in the same block of the cube farm, with the nice view of the monitor playing Spammity’s** show.
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*Drudge Friend Forever
**Fox talking head with gelatinous, molded meat product for brains.

crush: “Nothing we’re willing to do is gonna ‘solve’ Afghanistan or Pakistan . . .” There was a time when Afghanistan could have worked, but bush blew it entirely. My brother was in the Peace Corps in Afghanistan before the Soviet invasion, so he knew the country well. He has also been back a number of times since the liberation – and it was a liberation. He has watched the country move from euphoria right after the liberation (and it was euphoria) where everything seemed possible to where it is now due to Bush’s malign neglect and failed policies. It is beyond tragic.

The angry left. Fail!
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Via TPM:
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Despite a steady stream of stories about the supposed anger of “the left” at Obama, a new AP poll finds that fully 90% of Dems approve of the transition. And a new Pew Poll finds that Democrats approve of Obama’s cabinet choices by a margin of 89-4.
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Poll: 1% Of Dems Say Picks Too Far Right
Big News Orgs: ‘The Left’ Is Upset With Obama — Even Though It Isn’t
NYT: Liberals ‘Deeply Frustrated’
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http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/12/where_are_you_angry_left.php

cinci: …what a murderer’s row of hacks you’ve assembled here at Time… sgw and I have agreed not to encourage MS by ignoring his posts entirely. Really, responding to him is like responding to RedState, so why bother.
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Others are welcome to join in this. If effective we’ll get to see what happens when a blogger gets no attention at all?

Yes gunny (3:23), well said.
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It perplexes me that Obama wants to up-the-ante. I ask myself why. Is it important to him to be able to say “I got bin Laden when my predecessors couldn’t (wouldn’t)”? Sure, I’d like to “get” him, but it’s cold-comfort now.
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Are there other motivating factors: Afghani oil? Military bases?
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Or am I misreading it? Will we be safer if the US military can wipe-out all the bad guys? Doubt it- don’t think it can be done. I believe you defeat terrorism by taking away the motivation. I.e. get the military the f* out and do what you can to give the local people hope (jobs, water, electricity).
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Just as many of us at the time, and most of us in hindsight, criticized the Iraqi invasion as counter-productive in the fight against terrorism, I’m worried predator drones and troop escalation in Afghanistan/Pakistan will do the same.

gunny, I saw that TPM story too. I’m willing to bet that no one in the msm will notice, because the story is now CW after all.
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btw, if you use Firefox there is a dandy “make link” plug-in that lets you do this -But it is Afghanistan that now looms as the potential quagmire. – with one click. h/t jamesinLA

At the outset I think the honest answer was simple. We were seeking revenge.
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Little Tommy Friedman displayed this with his Suck. On. This. interview. Afghanistan wasn’t enough.
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But what the US did–demanded bin Laden, issued an ultimatum, got NATO support, acted on the ultimatum–and took pretty limited action was not unreasonable.
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Why is the US still there? Dirks came pretty close,I think.

euphoria right after the liberation
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I do remember that. People enjoy music, flying kites.
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Would there were a hell. Bush would burn forever.

Yeah, but a base is an expression of imperial military might, one to let the natives know that the US is all powerful…agian, a facade.
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wvng, I’ve made the same promise to not comment on Scherer’s posts, even suggested everyone just treat his posts as open threads. He has a talent for pulling people back in with his hackery though doesn’t he?

I still think that in my lifetime there is the possibility of seeing Bush behind the plexiglass at the Hague. Especially if he’s stupid enough to travel abroad.

jay: I do remember that. People enjoy music, flying kites.
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Jay, my brother was there to experience that rebirth. Over several visits he found close friends and extended families in both Herat and Kabul he hadn’t heard from since the Soviet invasion. A number had been refugees in surrounding countries and had just returned. They were all profoundly hopeful for a return of the country and lives they had known.

cincy, regarding MS, might be best if his threads were simply empty. Nothing like the sounds of silence.

jay, remember what it felt like, even over here, when the East German wall came down? Imagine if someone had put it back up a few years later. That’s Afghanistan today. And it’s Bush’s fault.
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Heartbreaking.

Via a Jay Rosen tweet.
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http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/12/not_liveblogging_the_harvard_c.php
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Reporters and campaign consultant gather for an off the record session of narrative construction and groupthink.

I read Klein’s article and have seen a Frontline piece on Afghanistan and it is pretty depressing. The truth is we can’t “win” Afghanistan. Remember the caution the military had when we first invaded? We need that caution again. Unfortunately, we got too lucky early on. Early victories, in the Afghan President, we got a guy who was very pro-American.

However, the seeds of our failure was planted very early. By making a deal with the warlords, we made a Faustian bargain which is coming back to bit us. These warlords are a law unto themselves and are not subject to any justice system. They were the people whose previous leadership spawned the Taliban. If they were not so crazy, we might have preferred the Taliban.

I don’t know what the solution is. Maybe if we can create an effective Afghan army, loyal to the Government instead of warlords, maybe we can get out. It may take years, but the best hope we have is to keep Afghanistan from being a sanctuary for Al-Qaeda and go about our business.

Cincy–
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For me that moment was when the tanks didn’t roll into Poland. I’d been following Solidarity and the Polish intelligentsia very closely. (Everybody should read Michnik’s Letters from Prison. And John Darnton, when he was a brilliant reporter rather than an awful novelist.)
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I read this book by this guy who walked across Afghanistan. It was pretty clear that the idea of an Afghan nation is somewhat misplaced.

Sorry. wvng. I had copied cincy’s comment, and space who’d made the East berlin wall comment.
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Yeah, but a base is an expression of imperial military might, one to let the natives know that the US is all powerful…agian, a facade.
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One of the deeper ironies is that it was the muscular military neocons who exposed the “america can fight on one and a half fronts” lie. Not even two half fronts turned out to be possible.

I’m up for a Scherer boycott….

jay: I read this book by this guy who walked across Afghanistan. It was pretty clear that the idea of an Afghan nation is somewhat misplaced. Yep, and remarkable that he lived given that he did it right after the fall of the Taliban. Brave guy. Crazy, but brave.
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However, before the Soviets Afghanistan was a “nation” consisting of tribal entities that had a well-established working relationship with a weak “central government” where money exchanged hands and things got done and everyone was pretty content with the arrangement. It was not a country with war lords.

Well, he was an idiot, in point of fact. And the last scene, where he walks through a English suburb thinking about doing what he did, walked into people’s homes and demanded hospitality, and how he wouldn’t dare do it in the UK illustrated just what a sh!t he is.
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It was still interesting. Can’t remember the title or author, and gave it away last year.

Oh, and on your larger point, yes, it is the Soviets who are most blameworthy for this mess. But the US/Saudi response made things still worse–leading to the 9/11 attacks, which led to the insanity of the Bush administration. Without those attacks, Bush woulda been a one-term, Buchanan/Harding type failure. Instead of an epic fail, worst in US history, will be compared to Napoleon deciding to invade Russia.

jay, it was Rory Stewart’s first book, "The Places in Between," recounts his journey across Afghanistan in January 2002.

I just opened up a gchat session (jayackroyd, if you’re on gchat or AOL IM) with my friend Preview. She remarked on the interesting prioritization of the Swampland dev team–the fifty message pagination put up in front of the paragraph breaks and, well, his return.
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(Preview’s gender shimmers back and forth, like someone beaming into a difficult environment.)

I’m down w/ the Scherer boycott.

Kashmir is as important as the West Bank.

Scherer will only ratchet up the inanity if we boycott. I genuinely think he is concern trolling. He isn’t as stupid as he pretends at times. But count me in. No posting on Scherer threads.

‘He isn’t as stupid as he pretends at times.’
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The obtuseness is maddening isn’t it? I have to think there is some level of pressure from above, KT all but admitted it the other day. I love the non answers you get when you ask why there isn’t a lib columnist at Time, you can sense the panic while they filibuster that question.

You just have to love how the religious right are finally figuring out that Bush was lying to them all along.

“No posting on Scherer threads”
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Okay I’m in, but no bashing the commenters that do.

thanks wv. From the review:
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He is, however, sternly warned before he begins his walk. “You are the first tourist in Afghanistan,” observes an Afghan from the country’s recently resurrected Security Service. “It is mid-winter,” he adds. “There are three meters of snow on the high passes, there are wolves, and this is a war. You will die, I can guarantee.” For perhaps the first time in the history of travel writing, a secret-police goon emerges as the voice of sobriety and reason.
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That about sums it up. I spent a year in the Sudan in an area where there had been a couple of generations of conflict, and a five month period when you cannot get out except on foot. Even in my foolish youth, I would not have contemplated doing that kind of thing if nobody knew where I was. The idea of hiking across Afghanistan with a rucksack and a profound faith in your ability to talk your way out of any situation AND have people feed you and shelter you strikes me as essentially insane.

I don’t know, folks.

I’m pretty sure that the remedy for Scherer’s thoughtless, yellow journalism is rational, cogent abuse.

But if you’re all for trying a boycott, then I’ll go along (not that I’m terribly prolific these days).

Okay I’m in, but no bashing the commenters that do.
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Indeed. A gracious silence is all.

gysgt
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We Must Crush Them!
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Seriously though we can’t bash them even a little for posting on his threads? I mean sheesh we need have SOME WAY to convince them of the error of their ways! lol

“I’m pretty sure that the remedy for Scherer’s thoughtless, yellow journalism is rational, cogent abuse.”
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…but during a time of massive layoffs, maybe the number of comments he generates might be seen as a plus by the powers that be. Then again AMC got a lot of comments and she’s gone, but clearly the cogent abuse thing doesn’t work w/ MS. The guy is a f@cking wall.

“Bush has openly said many times that Christians, Muslims and all other religions pray to the same God.”
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They don’t believe Christians, Muslims and Jews pray to the same god. They believe Catholicism is a cult. They believe the Constitution is based on the Bible. The dumbest white people on the face of the planet hands down…with the possible exception of Albania. Wow, Bush just lost any opportunity to be cheered by any crowd in this country. Wonder what his last approval rating’s gonna look like now?
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Brody_Evangelicals_surprised_by_Bushs_Bible_1211.html

So, I go out of the country for three weeks and all I got from the High Sheriffs when I return is comment pagination? Geez.
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Also makes it nearly as bad to refer to a previous comment as it did in the beginning of this went comments went winging off into moderation and our numbers were all relative.
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Maybe they confused pagination with paragraphization. Or previewigation.
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Maybe they are going to surprise us with a holiday gift.

Seriously though we can’t bash them even a little for posting on his threads? I mean sheesh we need have SOME WAY to convince them of the error of their ways! lol
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You need to read some f***ing Gandhi.
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A$$hole.
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They don’t believe Christians, Muslims and Jews pray to the same god.
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I just finished Matt Taibbi’s Derangement Syndrome.” No, they don’t think this. And the incoherence of their views is truly breathtaking.
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Taibbi tries to introduce balance with the 9/11 truthers. But, frankly, it doesn’t work.

It may be rhetorical, but the question of why we are in Afghanistan should be seriously answered. We went there with a white hot vengence after 9/11, of course. Now what. I disagree with those who place blame on the Soviets for causing the problems in Afghanistan. The history of the place is replete with outsiders trying to dominate. The Soviets, in fact, with their puppet government had made strides in introducing female equality, lessening the influence of religion, advancing education programs. But then, the US intervened in support of the mujadeehen and caused enought grief that they withdrew. Enter the Taliban. I try, but cannot possibly, imagine what the average Afghan must think about it all and what they would want. Survival mostly I guess. We really don’t know, and maybe they don’t either. But it’s worth asking and thinking about it.
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As for a boycott of Sherer, I don’t seem as offended and indignant about his blogs as many are. Count me out. I’m not into schemes to squelch those I disagree with, and expect the same of them.

Ha. Now’s the test.

Maybe they are going to surprise us with a holiday gift.
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I feel like the boy on Christmas day, digging through a bucket of crap, certain there’s a pony in there somewhere.

I’m not into schemes to squelch those I disagree with, and expect the same of them.
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It’s not about disagreeing with, it’s about not choosing to engage with someone who is essentially dishonest. I think it was PNNTO or the “other” Paul who used: “fraudulent.” I don’t engage with RedState or Faux News for the same reason.
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I try, but cannot possibly, imagine what the average Afghan must think about it all and what they would want. I mentioned my brother’s experience with this at http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/11/latest-column-5/#comment-27330

wvng, I don’t follow the “dishonest” label as applied to MS. To be honest, I don’t follow much of the indignation of some of his posts, such in the early Chicago scandal. I have responded with what I thought at the time in those threads.
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Your brother no doubt has a greater appreciation of the people in Afghanistan than most. I knew somebody who worked in the US embassy there when the Russians invaded, but didn’t really get an understanding. My closest to that is from “The Kite Runner”, a moving and profound book, but still, removed from it all. Thanks.

So, after noting all the finer point of this discussion, I went to Mikey’s latest attempt to link Obama to Blagoyawhatever . . . and it’s crap. It’s almost devoid of comments, and deservedly so. It’s not a boycott if you don’t comment on something that’s not worth commenting on, eh?

james, I keep after my brother to write about the incredible experiences of his friends after the invasion. He had zero contact with them for all those years, didn’t know if any were alive, and had the joy of a reunion with his cook (who was a great friend) and his extended family. One of the challenges they faced, when they decided to leave the country was where to go. Go where religion (shia or sunni) was shared, or go where ethnicity was shared?
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Shortly after 9/11, when the rhetoric of vengeance was at its worst, my brother wrote a letter to his local paper in Virginia. I’m sure he would not mind my sharing it with you here.
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The sad paradox of fighting a war on terrorism
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I lived in Afghanistan in the 1970’s as a Peace Corps Volunteer. By any tangible measure, it could not have been more foreign, and yet at its core was a community similar to that of the Shenandoah Valley. It was an agricultural community of decent, hard working people and close-knit, extended families, with conservative views based on a deep-rooted religious faith. Its members went about life with a quiet dignity. The life was hard and the economy primitive by our standards, but people made do. All of that changed in 1979 when the Russians invaded and created a life of unimaginable difficulty. And now, it appears that they are our enemy.
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In the aftermath of the tragedy of the terrorist attack, the evidence increasingly points to the Saudi exile Osama bin Laden as one of the culprits, perhaps in alliance with other terrorist groups like Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. President Bush has stated that we will hold everyone connected to the atrocity equally responsible – those who help and harbor terrorists as well as the terrorists themselves. This is clearly directed at the Taliban government of Afghanistan, which has provided refuge to bin Laden for several years. The increasingly strong rhetoric from Washington has included many tough phrases, such as “act of war”, “large scale military response”, “we have the capacity to level Kabul”, “bomb them back to the 14th century”, and “normally we would be concerned with civilian casualties, but we cannot afford to do so in this case.”
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In many ways, this is as it has to be. The horrific attacks in New York and Washington cannot go unpunished. The call for vengeance is understandable, the politics of the matter are inescapable (no politician who fails to act will survive), and the long term threat to our nation is undeniable. And so, it is increasingly likely that we will launch an attack on Afghanistan with a large and impressive display of force. As we rain down destruction on Kabul and Kandahar, however, Osama bin Laden and his cronies, as well as the key Taliban leaders, will almost certainly be hidden safely away. The massive power of the US military will fall most heavily on foot soldiers and civilians, as it has done in Iraq, where Saddam Hussein has prospered throughout the devastation of his country.
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The people who will bear the brunt of our retaliation will not have had any say in how their country is governed, any role in the protection of bin Laden, and certainly have had no role in the attack on the World Trade Center. With no TV or little electricity, few will even have heard about it or, for that matter, even know where New York is. They will be people whose greatest achievement in life has been survival -–of a brutal Russian invasion and occupation, of a decade of civil war, of a despotic, fundamentalist government, and of four years of drought and famine. They will be people whose families are scattered in refugee camps and cemeteries, whose children are missing limbs from land mines, whose daughters cannot be educated, and whose daily life is tightly regimented by religious fanatics. They will be the tens of thousands of war widows whose families are slowly starving because they are not allowed to work. They will be people whose culture and society and economy have been all but destroyed.
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The death toll from our retaliation will be a hundred times greater than our own losses, both due to our great firepower and because of the lack of even the most basic medical and rescue facilities in Afghanistan. The economic toll, however, will be infinitesimal. It will be counted in the tens of thousands of dollars, rather than the tens of billions lost in New York, because there is so little left to destroy. The amount we spend on jet fuel and rockets will be greater than the GNP of the country. We will discover how difficult it is to bomb a country back to the 14th century, when it is already living in the 9th century.
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And so, in a justified response to a ruthless terrorist attack on innocent civilians in New York and Washington, we will inflict the terror of death and destruction on innocent civilians in Afghanistan. They will be the victims of history, as were the doomed passengers in American Airlines Flight 11, caught in forces beyond their control. Dreams of revenge will be sparked in a dozen countries, and we will be pulled into the maelstrom of cyclical violence that the Middle East has lived for decades.
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Eventually we will win, of course. We will probably get bin Laden and his gang of fanatics, and close off the avenues through which they operate. What will be much harder to win will be justice or a lasting peace. It may cost ten thousand innocents for every guilty one that we capture or kill. Each “win” will sow the seeds of the next conflict. That is the sad paradox of this type of war – we only win by focusing on our goals and disregarding the “collateral damage” of innocent life – much as the terrorists themselves do. Our goals are certainly more praiseworthy, but our means are the same from the perspective of the victims of history, whether they are sitting in economy class of a jumbo jet, or over a wood fire in a mud house.
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If there is an alternative to this grim scenario, it will require more than simple vengeance. It will require the sustained and focused effort that the administration is advocating, to pull out this scourge by the roots. However, the roots are not only found in terrorist cells, financial networks, training camps, and safe harbors. The roots are also found in the frustration and pain of victims seeking their own justice. Many of the causes of anger toward America are rooted in the violence of the Middle East, so the resolution of the Middle East problem must be part of the war on terrorism. We need to engage the moderate leaders in the Middle East with dignity, respect, and recognition of their own just demands. We need to bring Israel to the table, with the understanding that justice and peace cannot be achieved by intransigence, repression, and greater violence. We need to go beyond encouragement and demand a lasting solution. As we have finally discovered, this is essential to our own national security. This will not eliminate the fanatics and sociopaths of the world – nothing will do that. But we can eliminate the support and sympathy that they garner among common people who can find no other outlet for their demands for justice. When they lose that support, we can indeed root out this evil of organized terrorism, and destroy it.
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I hope that our leaders are able to craft a response that blends our ideals and our power to deliver true justice. But I am pessimistic. Our tools are too blunt and our imagination too constrained. I fear that we will learn self-defense tactics from Israel, but will learn nothing from their 50 year failure to forge a just and lasting peace. So if we do strike back, lets spare a compassionate thought for the collateral damage where, a half a world away, they are suffering the mirror image of our own losses and dreaming of a similar justice and retribution.

I don’t think a boycott is the best strategy but I’ll follow it. Something needs to be done.
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formerlyjames, I’m not sure MS is dishonest. I can’t pretend to know why he writes obviously illogical and inaccurate posts sometimes, while at other times he does do solid work, like on civil liberties. I have my theories, but I could be completely wrong. What’s clear though is his work is occasionally actively harmful. I understand he’s not being paid to post on Swampland, so I’m okay with inanity but he should not enable right-wing smear campaigns.
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It’s important to distinguish between Afghanistan and Pakistan when evaluating how strong these nation-states are. Also in the midst of all this bad news, we should remember that Pakistan is not a failed state and it’s not a state dominated by religious extremists. Pakistan cannot afford to push out Al Qaeda because a. bombing Pakistani civilians has not made America more popular over there and b. Pakistanis do not want to give in to Indian demands when India is treating Muslims horribly. Imagine that there were terrorist groups based in the US that killed over a hundred Mexicans in coordinated attacks, and Mexico wanted those terrorists arrested. And imagine that over 2,000 Americans had been killed recently in Mexico, and the Mexican government didn’t seriously prosecute the perpetrators. Sure, two wrongs don’t make a right. But it’s not realistic to expect Pakistan to do what India hasn’t done: be tough on religiously motivated violence.

wvng, thanks very much for that. Your brother is a brilliant writer. That is very poignant and what touched me most was the line about the people of Afghanistan not even knowing of the 9/11 event. Joe should print that as further insight into his own feature.

wvng, thanks for the letter from your brother. It’s beautifully written.

formerlyjames
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Here is the deal, you are willing to give Scherer the benefit of a doubt and thats fine. But at what point would you say that he is biased and just trying to stir up sh!t about Obama? Would it take 4 posts? 5 posts? 10 posts? Well I for one have seen enough of his bullsh!t that for me I realize that he is being dishonest in his reporting. Ask yourself a question, how much of whats been posted here has focused on Blagojevich and all of the things he is accused of doing versus what has been written about him somehow tainting Obama. Then think about that for a minute. Blago was arrested and had an indictment that covered over 70 pages filed but there has been as much or more coverage by Scherer about some non existent link between Obama and Blago rather than Blago himself trying to sell a Senate seat. Not only that the central question is still and will always remain this, so what? So what if Obama or Rahm or Axlerod or the whole frikkin staff met with Blago about the seat? Its quite clear in the indictment that whether they did or didn’t meet with him Blago was under the distinct impression that neither Obama nor his people were willing to play ball. So is it that every body’s panties are in a bunch because potentially at worst Obama or somebody in his crew didn’t snitch? Oh wait but how do we know they didn’t snitch? We don’t do we? Ok so maybe everybody is upset because maybe Obama lied about meeting Blago. Hmmmm but even if he met with Blago again, he evidently told him to go phuck a duck. So when you can explain to me what it is that potentially Obama MIGHT have done that we should all be worried about based on the indictment which is all we have to go on now then maybe I could understand why Scherer has posted like 5 times about Obamas supposed connections to Blago instead of talking about Blago and his crazy ass wife. Other than that Imma stick to my Scherer is an azzhole meme and keep boycotting that propaganda pushing sumbeyatch.
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But you are definitely entitled to your own opinion.
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“I’m not sure MS is dishonest. I can’t pretend to know why he writes obviously illogical and inaccurate posts sometimes…but he should not enable right-wing smear campaigns.”
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If it walks like a duck…
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You can’t really blame him, illogical, inaccurate inanity, delivered with right-wing smears, has been the coin of the realm in The Village for quite some time.
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On the topic at hand, the only answer is development (not the answer to why we went there – that’s been answered – the answer to what we must do if we stay). Massive investment in infrastructure, healthcare, education and agriculture, first delivered through NATO, gradually replaced by NGOs. At this point, it’s the only way we’ll win their hearts and minds and leave them a country with some possibility to be something other than a failed narco/terrorist state.
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To bad we’ll need the money to keep us from becoming a failed imperialist/capitalist state.

wvng:

Incredible letter. Thank you very much for posting it.

sg, I don’t give Sherer the benefit of anything. I just don’t see his blogs as you see them. He raised the question of Obama’s proximity to Chicago politics. shepherdwong says if it walks like a duck… Well, what if it nests with ducks? I believe that Obama was aware of what was going on. That is a compliment because I believe he keeps tabs on all that is going on around him. I would not pay the same tribute to WBush. And, I have had the same thought that we don’t know that some information was relayed to the feds by Obama.
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On the boycott, I just like this forum as is and don’t want it screwed about. I will take MS, textee or Rusty, or anybody else as they come. It just does not serve the purpose of open expression, and challenge, to do that. I was going to say pull such stunts, but don’t want to inflame the discussion.

“On the boycott…”

formerlyjames has a point, folks.

formerlyjames
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A boycott is also a form of open expression. If we had subscriptions that we had to pay for to read Scherers blog then we could all cancel our subscriptions in protest thus costing the company money thus making them pressure Scherer into putting out a higher quality product or firing his ass. As it is since its free about the only thing we can do is boycott and not comment on his blog. For me I would much rather boycott his blog until he puts out a better product than engage him in his propaganda. Again everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I just don’t see how this will screw with anything in a bad way nor how it could be construed as a stunt. It is what it is.

Joe,
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You mentioned every real root cause except the most important one. Saudi money building and maintaining radical wahabbist madrassas everywhere.