Interrogation Policy Still A Bit Shadowy

For a year now, California Sen. Dianne Feinstein has been on a crusade against torture. Her principal weapon was a piece of legislation that passed in February, was opposed by John McCain and later vetoed by President Bush. The bill would have required the intelligence community to follow the Army Field Manual. It was a clear, simple solution to the legal mush that interrogation policy has become. The manual is incredibly specific about what techniques are allowed (mostly pyschological) and what techniques are forbidden (waterboarding, mock execution, beatings, etc.). “The national debate over torture will end if this amendment to place the CIA under the Army Field Manual becomes law,” she said a year ago. “This amendment is a matter of strong principle. It is the bedrock on which the United States stands.”

Now Feinstein is set to take over the Senate Intelligence Committee. And the next president, Barack Obama, is a man who supported the Army Field Manual bill. So everything should be pretty open and shut, right?

The answer is no. Read closely this passage from today’s New York Times.

[I]n an interview on Tuesday, Mrs. Feinstein indicated that extreme cases might call for flexibility. “I think that you have to use the noncoercive standard to the greatest extent possible,” she said, raising the possibility that an imminent terrorist threat might require special measures.

Afterward, however, Mrs. Feinstein issued a statement saying: “The law must reflect a single clear standard across the government, and right now, the best choice appears to be the Army Field Manual. I recognize that there are other views, and I am willing to work with the new administration to consider them.”

Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, another top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, said he would consult with the C.I.A. and approve interrogation techniques that went beyond the Army Field Manual as long as they were “legal, humane and noncoercive.” But Mr. Wyden declined to say whether C.I.A. techniques ought to be made public.

Wyden, for the record, was a cosponsor of Feinstein’s Army Field Manual bill. To be clear, neither Feinstein nor Wyden are calling for a continuation of current policy. But it is just not clear what they are now willing to accept. All we know is that they are willing to reopen discussions. And that is different from the stick-to-the-Field-Manual rhetoric of the election season.

UPDATE: An aide to Feinstein contacted me this evening to say that the New York Times cut off part of her statement to the paper. That full statement, however, seems to only confirm the Times’ suggestion that Feinstein is backing away from the Army Field Manual standard for all interrogations, in favor of an alternative, still undefined, “single standard across the government.” More to come. In the meantime, here is the Feinstein statement in full, which was given to the Times to clarify a comment Feinstein made in a Tuesday interview with the paper:

“The law must reflect a single, clear standard across the government, and right now the best choice appears to be the Army Field Manual,” Senator Feinstein said. “I recognize that there are other views, and I am willing to work with the new Administration to consider them. However, my intent is to pass a law that effectively bans torture, complies with all laws and treaties, and provides a single standard across the government.”

Related Topics: Uncategorized
  • Latest on Swampland

    Jim Bourg / Reuters

    At CPAC, Romney Stresses Conservative Credentials

    Three days after a trifecta of losses underlined lingering questions about his ability to win over the Republican Party’s base, Mitt Romney arrived at CPAC to allay skeptics’ fears. Throughout his second bid for the GOP nomination, Romney has made his business bona fides the centerpiece of his candidacy. But on Friday, before a packed room at the annual conservative confab, he sought to emphasize the record he compiled in Massachusetts. “I was a severely conservative governor,” he told the crowd. “I know conservatism, because I have lived conservatism.” 

    Romney: I Was A 'Severely Conservative' GovernorHuffPost Politics

    Pablo Martinez Monsivais / AP

    Mired in the Sticky Politics of Health and Faith, Obama Shifts on Contraception

    In the face of mounting pressure from Catholic leaders and politicians, the White House on Friday tweaked its position on contraception coverage mandates in the Affordable Care Act. Rather than require large religious institutions like Catholic colleges and hospitals to provide employees with free health insurance coverage for contraception, insurance companies themselves will have to pick up the tab.

  • Paul-no not that one

    We will be dealing with the aftermath of this adminstration for decades.
    If 8 years ago you were told that the US would debating at what level we could torture in 2008 you would have laughed it off.
    .
    That said I don’t trust Feinstein to do the right thing and stick to her AFM standard.

  • chester9000

    Would that be “Dianne” Feinstein, MS?

  • michaelscherer

    yep

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Thanks for staying on this MS. The lack of tradmed coverage of this during the Bush regime helped enable it. Putting in the clear bright line of the unclassified Army manual vs anything else is a very good frame.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    I urge you to be cautious in your coverage of this story. Needless to say, it’s a very important issue and as in any issue with this much emotional involvment, it’s very easy for misunderstandings to arise. I know that your crediting McCain with ‘opposing torure’ while voting against the Army Field manual bill was a big source of contention. The advantage of the Field manual is as you note, that it’s very specific. One of the downsides is that it isn’t secret. I’m thinking that the CIA-types if nothing else, want the ability to keep their charges guessing.

    As we have seen time and again however, is that as long as people have latitude in what treatment of prisoners is allowed, they will naturally gravitate to the worst possible treatment. It’s simply a matter of human nature, especially in cases where the interrogators actually believe that they are failing at something important.

    In other words, there NEEDS to be a law in place, it needs to be specific as to what’s allowed and (here’s the kicker) it needs to be enforcable and enforced with appropriate penalties for non-compliance. Otherwise our Agents will be open to improvisation and we’ve already seen exactly where that leads.

  • Andy from MA

    The day will come in the near future when a member of the U.S. military will be captured and tortured by the same methods that our legislators condone today. When that happens, and only then, when a firestorm of public opinion occurs to change this, will our leaders do the “right” thing.
    .
    Just don’t expect it to happen until then.
    .
    Good post MS.

  • toddandincharge

    I don’t trust her at all and thank MS for following this one.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Very good catch, Michael. Thanks for the post.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    This is the new spirit of bipartisanship. All of the Democrats have to put on their “we will listen to the opposition” faces on. What exactly do you think would have happened if Feinstein said she didn’t give a sh!t what the people at the CIA says, they are going to the military handbook? Now I am not saying we should just trust her or anybody in the new administration. But I am saying that I believe she is playing the good politics game. If she is going to be chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee she is going to have to have some support from the Intelligence community. Support that she wouldn’t get if she wasn’t willing to listen. I would also point out that from what i understand chemical coercion ie “truth serum” actually can work in certain situations and might be a part of the “flexible” stuff she is talking about.
    .
    I can also see where Paul D is coming from because if the terroist know you can’t do anything in the manual then they probably won’t be as easily cowed because they know there is only so much you can do to them. BUT on the flip side if the techniques ARE published then perhaps the terrorist recruiters lose a propaganda tool. I have to say that I don’t understand how we can publish the Army manual and that turns out fine but now we argue that the CIA techniques must not be published. I think thats going to be a very hard argument to support unless all of the torture technique manuals suddenly become classified and i don’t think anyone wants that.

  • christophermgomez

    When is anyone going to acknowledge that Ana Marie left? If not, at least post a photo showing her cute new haircut.

  • mrtoads

    Standard Democrat procedure, unfortunately – talk tough until you have power, then turn your head and cough. It would be nice to have Republicans who actually believed what they said they believed, or Democrats who actually did what they said they would, but then I guess it would also be nice to have a covey of lovely young things to cater to my every whim and a body like Ahnuld’s (used to be) without having to work out at all.

  • queencersei

    Am I the only one baffled that John McCain of all people wouldn’t be supportive of this?

  • Cliff

    BUT on the flip side if the techniques ARE published then perhaps the terrorist recruiters lose a propaganda tool.
    .
    That’s IF anyone were to actually trust our government anymore. Which I feel is a long shot.

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    @queencersei: how do you know he isn’t? He’s probably on-record in support of both views.

    Just curious – the two are probably not even connected in the slightest – but how does a nation full of kids who “know their rights” and have lawyers in their speed-dial to protect them against menacing parents have a policy of torture? Or is it because we, as parents, are not allowed to use corporal punishment on our kids that we take it out on “foreigners”?

  • vwcat

    Obama’s views on torture is what will be the policy and according to 2 London newspapers today, Obama’s grandfather was held for 2 years by the British during the maumau uprising and tortured.
    I would think Obama would want to end that policy here.

  • nlightnd1

    Consider this wisdom from the most successful interrogator and team leader who persuaded al-Zarqawi’s followers in Iraq to reveal his location – with a strict policy of humane treatment, building rapport and winning the prisoners’ respect to the point where they want to help you end the needless torment and killing of innocents:

    http://tinyurl.com/5rnpnx

    “I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. The large majority of suicide bombings in Iraq are still carried out by these foreigners. They are also involved in most of the attacks on U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. It’s no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001.”

  • sgwhiteinfla

    per the update, Scherer I think you are being just a tad bit disengeuous now. First of all the NYTimes cutting off the rest of the quote should automatically remove any credibility that they enjoyed. Second of all this part of the statement to me is a lot bigger than the “single standard” part.
    .

    However, my intent is to pass a law that effectively bans torture, complies with all laws and treaties,

    .
    I don’t think you can get any more unambiguous than that. But hey maybe I am just being an optimist

  • davemc321

    I’m with sgwhiteinfla on this. The stuff the Times left out is more than ‘clarification.’ And its omission says more about the Times’ reporting than Feinstein’s intent.
    That there’s even discussion whether the US should endorse torture is outrageous. It’s time for Congress to realize that Jack Bauer is fiction.

  • http://186-kps.com/blog/2008/12/04/feinstein-torture-is-now-ok-since-obama-will-be-president-say-democrats/ Feinstein – Torture is now OK since Obama will be President say Democrats | 186 k per second

    [...] Swampland – TIME.com » Blog Archive Interrogation Policy Still A Bit Shadowy « Now Feinstein is set to take over the Senate Intelligence Committee. And the next president, Barack Obama, is a man who supported the Army Field Manual bill. So everything should be pretty open and shut, right? [...]

  • http://www.pickerhead.com/2008/12/04/december-4-2008/ Pickerhead :: Pickings from the Webvine ::December 4, 2008

    [...] Scherer flags this quote from Dianne Feinstein in today’s [...]

  • rhyre

    @AndyfromMA (#6) – The day will come in the near future when a member of the U.S. military will be captured and tortured by the same methods that our legislators condone today

    I believe members of our military have ALREADY been tortured then brutally executed.

    If the Abu_Ghraib episode wasn’t enough, then what will create outrage?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse#Purported_retaliation

  • http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/04/dianne-feinstein-leaves-the-door-open/ Swampland – TIME.com » Blog Archive Dianne Feinstein Leaves The Door Open «

    [...] on what standards the Obama Administration should use to govern interrogations. This follows her comments earlier this week, which left open the possibility of abandoning her past proposal to use the Army Field Manual as [...]

  • http://lycanthropia.whistleandfish.com/2008/12/04/feinstein-wyden-going-soft-on-tortur/ Feinstein, Wyden Going Soft on Torture? | Lycanthropia

    [...] Michael Scherer and Salon’s Glenn Greenwald tackle Dianne Feinstein’s and Ron Wyden’s apparent [...]

  • formerlyjames

    My comment got bounced for a bad word. I will state it again without the word. It is absurd that the boundries and limits of torture are being debated or even considered in the United States of America. We do not do that.

  • formerlyjames

    Sorry, I was confused. My comment with the bad word is still on another blog. 2 torture blogs here.

  • http://www.drasties.com/?p=4695 Drasties – Dutch on the World – World on the Dutch

    [...] be required to comply with the Army Field Manual when interrogating detainees. But Time’s Michael Scherer picked up on the same backtracking and did a very good job of highlighting what appears to be Feinstein’s (as well as Ron [...]

  • lindasutton

    Dianne (DIFI) is considering a run for governor of California and that is the ONLY reason she’s now backtracking on her past positions supporting just about everything Bush has wanted.

    SHE is totally culpable for a host of wrong votes made after an overwhelming number of her constituents took the opposite position. Most egregious was her repeated stands AGAINST IMPEACHMENT.

    We now have a daily headline from Bush of each new regulation he’s shoving through to destroy the country before he leaves office. DIANNE is as RESPONSIBLE as BUSH since she abdicated her responsibility to uphold the constitution and to represent her constituency.

    I think it was during her VOTE FOR THE BAILOUT that she cavalierly stated that she knew better than the thousands upon thousands who told her to vote NO. Well, guess what Difi, you’re OUR EMPLOYEE, not our queen.

    Governor? I don’t think so.
    ###

  • http://www.ruthgroup.org/2008/12/04/stand-firm-no-torture-ever/ Stand Firm: No Torture –Ever | The Ruth Group

    [...] Michael Scherer in Time and Glenn Greenwald at Salon notice intimations of “flexibility” in Dianne Feinstein and Ron Wyden’s oppostion to torture. [I]n an interview on Tuesday, Mrs. Feinstein indicated that extreme cases might call for flexibility. “I think that you have to use the noncoercive standard to the greatest extent possible,” she said, raising the possibility that an imminent terrorist threat might require special measures. [...]

  • http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/05/more-on-the-interrogation-question/ Swampland – TIME.com » Blog Archive More On The Interrogation Question «

    [...] | Trackbacks (0) | Email This I have a new piece up at Time.com putting some context around my posts on the question of forcing the CIA to use the Army Field Manual (AFM) for interrogations. As it [...]

blog comments powered by Disqus