Presidential Pardon Season

Yes, it’s that time again. The Washington Post tells us today:

Among those seeking presidential action are former junk-bond salesman Michael Milken, who hired former solicitor general Theodore B. Olson, one of the nation’s most prominent GOP lawyers, to plead his case for a pardon on 1980s-era securities fraud charges. Two politicians convicted of public corruption, former congressman Randy “Duke” Cunningham (R-Calif.) and four-term Louisiana governor Edwin W. Edwards (D), are asking Bush to shorten their prison terms.

But the interesting thing about President Bush’s pardon power is how little he has used it, as Margaret Colgate Love noted in this op-ed on November 18. She made an interesting case that Bush should actually be using that power much more than he has:

History teaches that the demand for clemency increases when the system lacks other mechanisms for delivering individualized justice, for recognizing changed circumstances, or for correcting errors and inequities. The Sentencing Reform Act of 1984 made the pardon power virtually the only mechanism by which lengthy mandatory prison sentences can be reconsidered once they have become final. Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy, the author of opinions upholding harsh sentencing laws, urged in a 2003 speech to the American Bar Association that the pardon process be “reinvigorated” in response to “unwise and unjust” federal sentencing laws; “a people confident in its laws and institutions should not be ashamed of mercy,” he said.

Pardon is the only way to overcome the legal and social consequences of conviction, since a federal conviction cannot be expunged. In some states, federal offenders cannot exercise basic civil rights, including the right to vote, unless they have been pardoned. The fact that so many people with criminal records are African American only aggravates the “internal exile” phenomenon.

A series of final pardons could highlight flaws in the justice system that would be instructive to the next administration. The Framers considered the pardon power an integral part of our system of checks and balances, not a perk of office. Judicious grants of clemency can signal to Congress where rigid laws should be amended and give policy guidance to executive officials. The president’s intervention in a case through his pardon power benefits an individual but also signals how he wants laws enforced and reassures the public that the legal system is capable of just and moral application.

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  • sgwhiteinfla

    KT
    .
    I thought you were striclty a CNN pundit. LOL Nice appearance today on MSNBC

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Re: Milken — Yes, now is the perfect time to pardon the founding father of cotton candy securitization and speculative gluttony. The right message for the times! What America needs right now is to pardon Scrooge. That’s more like it. That penny-pinching sunovabitch is having the last laugh on us.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Yes, but this would require Bush to be reflective and he has already told us that he is uncomfortable with rethinking past decisions, apparently he was not only talking about his own.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    By the way re: Bush not using the pardons more. I think he was just saving them all up for the end of his term when he couldn’t be criticized for them. Contrary to popular belief he seems to care almost TOO MUCH how the country sees him and he knew he would take a hit on some of the pardons he is sure to hand down. I will start the list of the most obvious pardons he will likely hand out
    .
    Himself (whether its legal or not)
    .
    Dick Cheney
    .
    Scooter Libby
    .
    Ted Stevens
    .
    Al Gonzales
    .
    Henry Paulson

  • gysgt213

    “She made an interesting case that Bush should actually be using that power much more than he has”
    .
    Maybe Ms. Love should Bush’s record.
    .
    Anybody check Bush’s clemency record when he was governor of Texas. Nobody remembers that Gonzales gave him almost no info on clemency cases because Bush didn’t want it. No one remembers him laughing at a death row inmate begging for her life.

  • queencersei

    Someone please remind me why the President has the power to pardon someone convicted of a crime in a court of law? I’m just wondering.

  • fense

    queencersei — it’s a check on the power of the Judicial and Legislative branches.
    .
    However, it’s been dead politically ever since the “War on Crime”, especially the Willie Horton ad.

  • nibblybits

    Slate has a list of suspects and their probabilities.
    http://www.slate.com/id/2204984/
    Scooter Libby gets a You Betcha!

  • Matt

    This is simply a time-honored tradition that every president partakes in. Bush just happens to know a lot of criminals…

    http://www.political-buzz.com/

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Re: Milken — Now is not the time to pardon the founding father of cotton candy securitization and speculative gluttony. It would be like awarding George Tenet the Presidential Medal of Freedom or something like that.

  • fourlegsgood

    Duke Cunningham thinks he deserves a pardon? good grief – talk about chuzzpah.
    .
    I fully expect him to pardon Gonzo and Scooter as well.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    pourme wins the before noon section of this thread for excellent snarkiness

  • fourlegsgood

    Re: Milken — Now is not the time to pardon the founding father of cotton candy securitization and speculative gluttony.
    .
    Probably not. But at least Milken served his time and has done something constructive since leaving prison. And he’s shown remorse, which is more than I can say for most of the people on the list.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I don’t know what you are talking about. They are all sorry they got caught.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Talk about your under reported stories of our time
    .

    President George H.W. Bush, for example, granted pardons to officials involved in the Iran-contra scandal. Only a week before former defense secretary Caspar W. Weinberger was scheduled to face trial, in a document dated Christmas Eve, the president pardoned Weinberger and several associates, including Robert C. McFarlane and Clair E. George.

    .

    Lawyer Robert S. Bennett, who defended Weinberger, said in an interview that he laid the groundwork for a pardon nearly a year in advance. He identified intermediaries to gauge the reaction of then-House Speaker Thomas S. Foley (D-Wash.), consulted with other lawmakers and arranged newspaper opinion pieces. Only weeks before the award, White House officials asked Bennett to complete the pardon paperwork even though Weinberger had not been tried.

    .

    “I was the orchestra leader,” Bennett said. “Then you’ve got to get important players to play the instruments.”

    .
    In the Lee Atwater movie Terry McCauliffe says that George H W Bush HAD to win the presidential election otherwise he and every other official in the Reagan administration was going to jail. He aint never lied!

  • donovong

    Since Barack has nominated Mr. Holder, I fully expect we will hear all about the Mark Rich fiasco until we want to puke. But once Dubya starts doing his thing the Rich pardon will look like child’s play.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I remember reading somewhere that Weinberger deserved a pardon, and being persuaded. I know that’s lame without a citation, but I recall a pretty persuasive case being made.

  • Karen Tumulty

    KT here–

    A question for you guys, because I don’t know the answer. re: Gonzales–Can you pardon someone when they haven’t been indicted (except by that grand jury in South Texas, and I don’t know how seriously to take that)?

  • sgwhiteinfla

    KT
    .
    Evidently thats the question of the next few months because people in the media are playing up this story about Bush issuing blanket pardons for people in the administration who might have been involved with torture. I honestly don’t think anyone knows whether he can or can’t definitively but I did hear over the weekend someone try to justify the notion that he can based on Jimmy Carter pardoning Vietnam soldiers of crimes they hadn’t been charged with yet.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee
  • Cliff

    Wait, so Love is saying that in order to uphold any semblance of justice in our nation, Bush has to pardon the criminals that have dismantled our government?
    .
    We’re not talking about Tyrone sitting in prison for crack cocaine here. We’re talking about rich white men who will do anything to get richer.
    .
    In short, I am not buying what Margaret Colgate Love is selling.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Ask Richard Nixon, KT.

  • http://www.simonvinkenoog.nl/beeld/Yogi%20-%20Annelies%20Rigter.jpg yogi

    No pardon for the Duke! I used to live in his congressional district, he doesn’t deserve a pardon.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    Check out Clinton’s quote about the Weinberger pardon. Came back to bite him in the arse didnt it?
    .
    http://www.fas.org/news/iran/1992/921224-260039.htm

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    –Can you pardon someone when they haven’t been indicted?

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081023115150AApcHVR

    Best Answer – Chosen by Asker
    Yes. Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon before he was indicted on any charges

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    @sgw – Maybe I was just in “pity the old guy” mode – because now that I am reminded his trial was just around the corner, I don’t see why it wouldn’t have been wiser to let a jury determine his fate. I’ll have to read up later this week when I’m pretending to listen to my distant relations.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    I don’t think this is the particular article that swayed you but it does give an in depth look into what happened. Curiously Bill Kristol was a player yet again. Just who in da hell IS Bill Kristol?
    .
    http://www.newsweek.com/id/115931/page/1

  • formerlyjames

    If I remember correctly, the Ford pardon was for any offenses that “may” have been committed by Nixon. Wonder if the Guantanamo concentration camp has received copies of applications.

  • formerlyjames

    sg, Carter granted amnesty to draft dodgers who had been charged, not to soldiers.

  • Karen Tumulty

    KT here–

    Cliff: I think what she is selling is the idea that he should pardon a whole lot of people that you’ve never heard of, who were caught up in mandatory sentencing laws. i don’t think she is expressing any opinion on the guys you have heard of.

  • sgwhiteinfla
  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I know who I’d pardon: Bartman. C’mon, it’s time. Dude meant no harm.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    formerlyjames
    .
    Thanks for the correction. I only half heard the justification but I knew it had something to do with the war.

  • 53_3

    It’s astonishing to listen to a preseident elect make a major speech.
    .
    The whole Administration has essentially abdicated…

  • 53_3

    He is going decidedly liberal in domestic policy

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    To my ear, the editiorial is more an indicment of mandatory sentencing laws than it is a defense of pardons. By legislating judicial discretion out of the equation, the Congress has pretty much guaranteed that the US leads the world in incarcerating non-violent offenders. Why she argues that The Sentencing Reform Act of 1984 should motivate more pradons instead of simply pointing out that is an unjust law and arguing for its repeal is beyond me.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    on the Gerald Ford pardon of Nixon
    .
    It was unprecendented when he did it and it would seem the primary justification was that Nixon was a former president. I wonder if that translates into Cabinet level personnel as well

  • 53_3

    “…we cannot wait another month…”

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Shorter Obama: Never mind on that one President at a time crap.

  • 53_3

    Yup. Sorry about breaking in.
    .
    Someone has to do it!
    .
    Later…

  • 53_3

    Oh. “Someone has to do it” refers to Obamas’ actions…

  • Paul-no not that one

    Since the Nixon pardon seems to be the clearest example of the pre-indicted pardon that KT asked about it should be worth noting that it wasn’t just that Nixon “got away with it” but that we couldn’t find out the truth.
    And at least Ford went before Congress explained himself and took questions. Something Bush never will do.

  • JJ

    Hark Halperin is unbelievable:
    .
    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/24/11302/306/554/665591
    .
    He doesn’t address the fact that McCain ran his campaign on the level of a high school cafeteria food fight.
    .
    Go back to writing The Note, Halperin.

  • Cliff

    KT – thanks for responding. I feel like there’s a disconnect there: people are talking about a Pardon Tsunami, for all the famous criminals we’re hearing about now. Just on this thread:
    Bush
    Gonzales
    Scooter
    Stephens
    Paulson
    Cheney
    Cunningham
    Edwards
    .
    But yet Love is talking about pardons for people no one has heard of?
    Why refer to her article in the first place? I don’t see the relevance of it at this point.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    The Dow isnt liking the answer about taxes. Get ready to hear that on foxnews

  • Andy from MA

    Maybe Bush can pardon Don Siegelman while he’s at it.

  • Karen Tumulty

    KT here–

    Cliff: The relevance is to pre-emptively remind people of the real purpose/rationale of the presidential pardon power, which tends to get lost in the headlines about famous people getting pardoned.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Real good kos diary by James Boyce about “lefty bloggers” and how they went on MSNBC and totally messed up the “crazy outraged librul” meme they were trying to push. Dee if you read this Jane Hamsher’s appearance is also on the diary and she came off VERY reasonable and nothing like a lefty version of a winger
    .
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/24/103427/13/370/665759

  • formerlyjames

    PNNTO, I remember that Ford explained that he issued the pardon in hopes of moving on as the country was in such upheaval over the Watergate scandle. It wasn’t the that truth couldn’t be found, as Nixon would surely have been indicted by the House if he hadn’t resigned. Ford just wanted to get over it all, whether he was right or not. It probably cost him the election.

    On mandatory sentencing, there is a sentencing commission which has been looking for years at the law. It is highly unpopular with federal judges as well, and is likely to be changed to allow more judicial discretion in sentencing.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I think the name Margarget Colgate-Love is smokin’ hot. Usage: “Squeeze me off some of that minty Colgate-Love.”

  • formerlyjames

    The mandatory law was based on discrepency in sentencing. Now discretion and discrepency is likely to return. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t…

  • Art Pepper

    “the demand for clemency increases when the system lacks other mechanisms for delivering individualized justice”
    -
    I would be sympathetic to this argument if the President used his pardon powers for, say, casual drug users who got stuck with absurd prison sentences as part of the futile war on drugs, rather than, say, Duke Cunningham and Scooter Libby.
    -
    (I know, technically Libby wasn’t pardoned.)

  • formerlyjames

    Replace Tough-Love with Colgate-Love?

  • fourlegsgood

    I would be sympathetic to this argument if the President used his pardon powers for, say, casual drug users who got stuck with absurd prison sentences as part of the futile war on drugs, rather than, say, Duke Cunningham and Scooter Libby.

    As you say, Scooter wasn’t pardoned. Yet.
    .
    I expect to see that happen though.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    I don’t know if this answers any one’s questions about the article, but it seems to me that the point of the clemency power is to inject mercy into the system. Bush, while likely to use the power to absolve the politically connected, has done less than other presidents to use the power in favor of those who’ve been steamrolled by the system and have no other recourse. It’s interesting that Bush who prides himself on his Christian values fails to behave as if mercy is one of those values.

  • Paul-no not that one

    That’s accurate James, long national nightmare and all that. But that Ford went to answer to Congress was impressive and certainly something that Bush wouldn’t do.
    Pardon and run is the most likely scenerio.
    Also the pre-indicted pardon denied the country a trial where evidence is weighed. And that denied the country the truth.
    Instead we got Frost/Nixon.

  • Cliff

    All right, I’ll buy that MGL isn’t pushing for Bush to pardon governmental offenders.
    .
    It’s nice to be reminded of what our government is supposed to do, but really, you go to the Supreme Court with the President you have, not the President you might want.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Maybe the person Margaret Colgate-Love needs to pardon … is herself. [Weeping] It’s okay. It’ll all be okay. Next week, on a very special Swampland …

  • Cliff

    Dee in Columbia MD – thanks, that makes more sense to me.

  • Cliff

    Dee in Columbia MD – thanks, that makes more sense to me.

  • Cliff

    What? How did that come up twice?

  • sgwhiteinfla

    We have our first progressive selection to the administration of the Obama presidency
    .
    http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2008/11/melody_barnes_to_run_domestic_policy_council.php

  • wvng
  • Dee in Columbia MD

    I know a lot of attention has been paid to the Marc Rich pardon — but Clinton pardon a number of people including those with mandatory drug sentences that were excessive, including cocaine, meth and marijuana. The link below is a list of pardons in 2001

    http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm

  • sgwhiteinfla

    wvng
    .
    I posted the link you put up yesterday where digby put Halperin on blast. But the truth is I think Halperin strives to be Drudge. if you look at “the page” its just a more colorful drudge report but the same basic set up. He isnt a journalist, he is a hack who links to real journalists and most of the time he only finds the articles by refreshing drudge every 2 seconds. He is a joke and I still don’t see how he gets his own blog or media appearances.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    KT
    .
    Evidently the House is trying to block Bush from pardoning people in his administration who haven’t yet been charged
    .
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-latt/an-effort-in-congress-att_b_145881.html

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I don’t see how anyone can find any value in conclusions — no matter what they are — about “the media.” It’s not that I agree or disagree with Halperin — I just don’t find that sweeping a generalization to be meaningful. I don’t even find it meaningful at the publication or individual journalist level. Articles and assertions matter. I found it ridiculous the way the McCain campaign dismissed the NY Times, but I also thought their Vicky Iseman and Cincy McCain articles were really, really horrific and wrong. I wish people would confine media judgment to granular instances instead of broad pronouncements.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    BTW, was I the only one who watched 60 minutes last night about a break in at a nuclear facility in South Africa last year??? I mean the facility is closed but they DO have more than enough nuclear material to make a bomb or two.
    .
    http://crooksandliars.com/cernig/loose-nukes-and-loose-knowledge

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    -Can you pardon someone when they haven’t been indicted (except by that grand jury in South Texas, and I don’t know how seriously to take that)?
    .
    Sure. See, Ford, Gerald F. re Nixon.

  • cfukara

    Many have accused Bush of riding rough-shod on our constitution.
    If he has got to grant pardons, maybe this time he will make amends – by extending his pardon to cover everyone in our criminal/prison/justice system. Over 3 million of them. After all,

    1) why should Milken get a pardon while ‘more deserving’ cases probably exist in the prison system?
    Who wants to bet that come next year, we will NOT read about a poor innocent soul being released out of prison after spending in there decades of his most productive years – for nothing?
    After all, don’t the we, the pious ones, maintain that we – or rather our Gonzales-blessed justice system – would rather let likely criminals walk free that to incarcerate one innocent soul – or some phony sentiment like that?

    2) why should some people get a pardon while others don’t? Are all men born equal? Or is that “supposedly equal”? Or “maybe equal”? Or was it “some men”?

    3) And who hasn’t heard the following sentiment from our leading lights:
    “not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime.” – Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey, August 12, 2008
    Texans know bull when they see it. And they can smell it from miles away. Bush will cut out the librul’ elitist clutter: “a violation is not a crime”!

  • Art Pepper

    I image Bush *must* be planning a blanket pardon for the folks who came up with the torture policy. You don’t conspire to commit war crimes without having some plan to escape prosecution, right? That’s just basic Junta 101. Unless they thought the permanent GOP majority was real.
    -
    (I mean the higher ups. Of course they’re happy to throw the rank-and-file to the wolves.)
    -

  • Andy from MA

    I think Bush will pardon himself, so he can’t be tried as a war criminal.

  • formerlyjames

    Could Hitler have pardoned all the Nazis?

  • sgwhiteinfla

    More Lieberman hate blah blah blah
    .
    http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/joe-paskudnyak

  • formerlyjames

    Here’s a suggestion. Bush pardons Cheney and all of the criminals in his cabnet. He resigns, and then Cheney pardons him. Then they all resign early and we don’t have to wait so long for the new administration.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Mark Halperin is exactly what is wrong with journalism. Telling a half truth, a lie, an omission, all produces the same thing — an inaccurate picture. Did Obama spend more money than McCain yes, absolutely. But to simply compare spending does not tell an accurate story. If candidate A has 10% name recognition and candidate B has 60% name recognition – the one thing you can be sure of is that candidate A is going to have to spend a lot more just to draw even with candidate B.
    .
    So I question is it an accurate portrayal of the campaign by simply comparing the spending difference without also acknowledging that Obama had to overcome the disadvantage of being black, funny Muslim sounding name, and be less known, not to mention all of the vicious rumors about his background and agenda.
    .
    We’ve already had numerous discussion about false equivalencies and here Halperin Is at it again. Is negativity focused on a candidate’s policies, or positions the same as negativity focused on person-hood — on the negative spectrum McCain’s attacks were far more despicable because they were focused on things that most white candidate’s take for granted,. No one generally questions thier Americanism, patriotism, belongingness, I’m sorry. blacks have always had to fight this perception that we are some how less patriotic, less American and McCain fed that meme for all it was worth. But Halperin is trying to revise history before its even written.

  • FlownOver

    coffee:

    It’s precisely by engaging in generalities that these legends-in- their-own-minds can get away with their blathering Grand Pronouncements. Don’t bother them with details – or with facts, for that matter.

    .
    If Halperin couldn’t refer to “the media” as a collective, fungible entity he’d be Nicholas Fehn.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    I am watching the “24″ special from last night and I have a question. What happened to second president palmer at the end of the last season? I assume he must have died, but how did it happen?

  • formerlyjames

    Dee, Obama might have outspent McCain, but the money he spent also came from a much larger sample of citizens than that of McCain.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    @flownover – Agreed. I also think Halperin and Drudge serve a valuable purpose the same way that 7-11 isn’t a grocery store but between soccer games you might need a Gatorade real quick. Just don’t put them on deep-thinking panels, please.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    formerlyjames — Dee, Obama might have outspent McCain, but the money he spent also came from a much larger sample of citizens than that of McCain.
    .
    Yeah that too! and what are the odds that his colleagues will challenge his assertions based on these few simple discrepancies?

  • formerlyjames

    Actually, I appreciate the glimpse of Halperin here, as I quit going to the Page long ago, and never pay any attention to what he is saying. Or not saying.

  • Cliff

    I wish people would confine media judgment to granular instances instead of broad pronouncements.
    .
    You have a point. But at least for me, I’ve seen enough dots connected to feel comfortable in leveling a blanket charge at the media.
    The problem with Halperin leveling blanket charges like that is he ignores his own behavior.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    I think Bush will pardon himself, so he can’t be tried as a war criminal.
    .
    I’ve said it before. I’ll say it again. On Jan 19 he pardons everybody, starting with Cheney, including Yoo and Addington. And then resigns. Cheney gets sworn in. Pardons Bush.

  • Andy from MA

    Cliff says:”You have a point. But at least for me, I’ve seen enough dots connected to feel comfortable in leveling a blanket charge at the media.
    The problem with Halperin leveling blanket charges like that is he ignores his own behavior.”
    .
    Yes, I believe this is where the term “Holier than thou” originated.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Gerald R. Sorry about that.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    @Cliff – Forgive the smartassery, but I’d call agreeing with a blanket conclusion except insofar as it ignores a particular instance … not agreeing with a blanket conclusion.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Im Shocked, Shocked I tell ya. Just when Alan Colmes might have been able to get in some good shots at Hannity with a very popular Democrat as PEOTUS here comes news tht he is leaving Hannity’s show.
    .
    http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/fnc/alan_colmes_leaving_hannity_colmes_101631.asp#more
    .
    You really HAVE to read Colmes’ happy happy joy joy announcement

  • Andy from MA

    SG: Shorter Colmes: Rat jumps off sinking ship.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Way off topic, behind the curve, late, whatever.
    .
    But this piece by Nate Silver about conservatives, the nature of talk radio and why it has hurt their cause is really good.
    .
    Better still is the comments though, with conservatives reinforcing exactly what he is saying in the post by way of rebuttal.
    .
    Hilarity!

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I am a huge proponent of the “no drama” school of life, but Sean Hannity is the only person in the public arena who just completely boils my blood and I can’t help it. I don’t watch his TV show, but his radio show is on when I am driving home from work and I want to reach through the radio and kill him. Thank God I have been working from home in Q4, but I’m sure my blood pressure will be back up in 2009. He is so proud of his stupidity, that’s what gets me. He’s so proud of it that he wants to show it to everybody.

  • Joe Bftsplk

    @jayack — missing link. I presume you meant this:
    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/did-talk-radio-kill-conservatism.html

  • Cliff

    I’d call agreeing with a blanket conclusion except insofar as it ignores a particular instance … not agreeing with a blanket conclusion.
    .
    I’m confused – are you talking about me or Halperin?

  • formerlyjames

    pourmecoffee, who is most proud of their own sutpidity, Hannity, or Rush? Or their devoted followers?

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Thanks Joe.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I despise Hannity by an order of magnitude over Rush. At least Rush is sometimes genuinely funny, although not much lately. He was very funny in his first big years. He’s much smarter than Hannity, in my opinion. To me, Rush knows it is all a game whereas Hannity believes he is on a mission to save America and only he can do it.

  • palininatowel

    Got a hold of Duke Cunningham’s letter to Bush:
    -

    Dear Dubya,
    -
    Hope you and Laura and the girls are doing well. Have you seen Cheney lately? I know he’s probably at the front of the line in terms of pardons (pre-indictment), but what do you say about my situation? I’m not into tennis and all the rest of the Republican swells here at the Tucson facility are walking around in their tennis togs all day. Makes me physically ill. I get out to the pool and do a little swimming once in awhile, but my prostate is so damn big, I gotta pee every 10 minutes.
    -
    So what do you say, Dub? How about a “time served” pull for the Dukester? It’s hard to even get good Scotch in this place. I’ve been reduced to drinking Chivas. I know you’ve been off the sauce for a while (supposedly, wink!), but I’m sure you remember just how nasty that stuff can be.
    -
    Thanks for anything you can do, Dub. I’d wrote some more but I gotta go take another leak.
    -
    Your friend,
    -
    Dukester

  • dunedweller

    I’m convinced Hannity and Rush are both dumb as dirt. Sometimes it’s worth listening to their spewage just to get a snapshot of their audience. I once heard Rush argue with an electrical engineer that using compact flourescent lightbulbs to save energy was a total myth. Hannity was popping blood vessels daily during the election. Now their biggest issue is the fairness doctrine – they’ll be over if it passes.

  • cfukara

    formerlyjames Says:
    ” .. Here’s a suggestion. Bush pardons Cheney and all of the criminals in his cabnet. He resigns, and then Cheney pardons him. .”
    Why do I get an impression that Swamplanders are conspiring to commit a crime?
    But then, didn’t we conspire to invade Iraq and raped, maimed, killed, dislocated humans by the millions? When is the last time we whine about THAT in Swampland? No, we are conspiring to sanitize it all.
    Heck, we ARE the brave and the free …

  • palininatowel

    dunedweller,
    .

    ‘m convinced Hannity and Rush are both dumb as dirt.

    .
    Gotta’ love America. Rush just signed a huge new contract and Sarah Palin, a person who cannot string together a coherent sentence or a cogent thought, gets a $7 million book deal.
    .
    It’s a shallow culture, but it’s all ours!

  • dunedweller

    palininatowel: HA! You got that right – there’s something for everyone to strive for (baby steps!)

  • Andy from MA

    I thought the Nate’s interview with Ziegler was very revealing. Talk radio began to fill a void in the 1980s when music programming began to wither and die across the AM band. Remember that Don Imus was jock (as in DJ) before he transitioned his career to talk. He even release an album with some of his best bits (1200 Hamburgers to go).
    .
    Even Limbaugh was a jock before he became famous. Ad libbing without the verbal tics is a learned skill, not a natural talent. It comes from listening to airchecks over and over and over again and perfecting a style.
    .
    You had several talented announcers who did not berate people like these RW loonies do. Even NPR brought a particular style to talk radio, when premiered in the 70s. This was due to lack of funding versus a style choice.
    .
    The radio band, after television obtained the mass audience beginning in the 1950s, really became an exercise in narrowcasting: define a target audience, news, talk, music, sports, etc. Depending on the format, it’s after some slice of the radio audience pie (women 25-54; or men 12-24).
    .
    People don;t sit around “watching” their radio experiencing “the theatre of the mind”, anymore, except on Halloween, when they replay 1938′s “War of the Worlds.”
    .
    As far as Hannity is concerned, we will someday wax nostaligically about him the same way we do about Joe Pyne.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Pyne

  • Andy from MA

    High Sherrifs, please free my post.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Sarah Palin, a person who cannot string together a coherent sentence or a cogent thought, gets a $7 million book deal.
    .
    She did? The only article i saw said her agent was pitching a deal that big. Not that anybody had bought it. Publishing is in deep doo right now. Deals like that may be hard to get.

  • Andy from MA

    My previous post was obliterated, but Limbaugh and Sean (in-s)Hannity owe their success to this man; who’s success was accomplished within the confines of the Fairness Doctrine:

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,899296,00.html

  • wvng

    Halperin, as applied to sports reporting. Team A beats Team B by 50 points. Team A played flawless offense and defense, played a very sportsmanlike game, and most of the crowd kept giving them standing ovations. Team B couldn’t move the ball down the field and couldn’t stop the other team from doing anything they tried to do, and they kept trying to kneecap Team A’s quarterback – which generated howling and hooting applause in that part of the crowd let out of the asylum, under guard, for the game. According to Halperin, it would be biased to report that one team was exceptional and the other an embarrassment on the field.
    .
    On another topic, the Palin turkey video, the best way to understand how that plays out in the country is to watch my big fat redneck wedding on CMT.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    palininatowel
    .
    Dont forget that both Hannity and Bill O just reupped for millions also. Hate pays well these days! Hell this black guy named Shelby Steele is getting straight paid by hating on other black people. Fascinating world we live in.

  • palininatowel

    jay,
    .
    That’s the rumor, anyway. Of course, it was reported in the New York Post, so you may be correct in taking it with a grain of salt.

  • Andy from MA

    wvng: I like your premise, but really Halperin blames team B’s loss on the officiating crew for making bad calls against team B.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    The new Obama social secretary is smokin HOT! Imma have to try to crash some of HER parties! lol
    .
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/24/obama-to-name-desiree-rog_n_145957.html

  • Andy from MA

    SG: nice to see you excited about something other than Joe Lieberman.

  • palininatowel

    I find it humorous that Halperin wants to call the election coverage of other journalists “disgusting.” This from the same guy who regularly cited Drudge as a source in his general election coverage.
    .
    And how many times did Halperin cite a left-leaning online news source like TPM or Glenn Greenwald during the general? Maybe the question should be, did Mark Halperin ever cite a left-leaning news source during the general election campaign? Even once?
    .
    Halperin belongs to the closed-loop Circle Jerk Journalism Club in which he references Drudge who references Jonathan Martin at Politico who references Halperin and Drudge.
    .
    And Halperin has the b*lls to call out fellow journalists for “biased coverage?”
    .
    Hilarious…

  • Andy from MA

    palininatowel: It’s like what the farmer said when the Jack@ss kicked him: “you have to consider the source.”

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Andy,
    .
    I posted some Lieberman hate up thread but I really am just enjoying how he is making Harry Reid look like a fool now. Did you see his quote from Meet the Press?
    .
    SEN. LIEBERMAN: Well, look, the whole spirit of the caucus was reconciliation, and the fact is that Senator Reid asked me if I would leave the environment committee if he needed space on the committee for some of the new freshman senators coming in. I said yes, I would. People may have voted for it thinking somewhat differently. It’s OK.
    .
    He will only keep saying stuff like this to make Harry Reid look foolish so I take my joy in that now!

  • wvng

    sgw, I’m glad to see you found joy in Joe Lieberman’s words.

  • formerlyjames

    Andy, thanks for the trip down memory lane a la Joe Pyne. Dating myself, but I remember well. He was described as the man every loved to hate, and drew hugh crowds. The current wackos are continuing the tradition. I would guess that half of the people tuning into Hannity and Limbush are doing so for masochistic pleasure. Are their feelings hurt by those who think they are nut cases? All the way to the bank.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    wvng,
    .
    I am officially Lieberman’s biggest cheerleader now for him to stab Harry Reid in the back over and over again!

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    SG — glad to hear you getting some joy from Lieberman comments anything that makes you smile is welcome.
    .
    And as to “Hell this black guy named Shelby Steele is getting straight paid by hating on other black people. Fascinating world we live in.”
    .
    Okay Shelby Steele has his issues but the riff between liberal and conservative blacks is as old as Dubois and Carver — but please don’t put him in the same category as Limbaugh. Yes they are both conservative but Rush is a buffoon and Steele is a well educate, well written, thoughtful conservative — I don buy his argument but at least he makes a rationale one.

  • http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/25/update-presidential-pardon-season/ Swampland – TIME.com » Blog Archive UPDATE: Presidential Pardon Season «

    [...] | Comments (0) | Permalink | Trackbacks (0) | Email This Picking up the conversation from our earlier thread: President Bush issued 14 pardons and commuted two sentences yesterday. The NYT’s Eric Lightblau [...]

  • http://time.postdown.com/2008/11/26/update-presidential-pardon-season/ Time » Blog Archive » UPDATE: Presidential Pardon Season

    [...] up the conversation from our earlier thread: President Bush issued 14 pardons and commuted two sentences yesterday. The NYT’s Eric [...]

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