Re: Waxman-Dingell Showdown

Seems my sources this ayem were incorrect. Politico reports that Henry Waxman has won the Energy Committee gavel, unseating John Dingell from the perch he has held since 1981.

Update:
The vote was 137-122 by secret ballot. Edolphus Towns now succeeds Waxman at the helm of the Oversight Committee. All in all it has been a terrible week for Detroit: their pleas for a bailout fell on deaf (and in some cases hostile) ears and their greatest champion has now lost his soapbox.

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  • Dee in Columbia MD

    This is a great day in America — Waxman at the helm of energy makes the prospect of an ET revolution that much more possible and perhaps the lives of mu grandchildren won’t resemble Oliver Twist.

  • nibblybits

    Sorry, JNS, not to besmirch your sources, but this was to be expected. Dingell’s recent press releases had the stink of desperation.
    .
    Congratulations to Henry Waxman, and to Nancy Pelosi to engineered this coup. She is the power to watch.

  • Joe Bftsplk

    To quote my beloved, departed Grandpa –
    Well, I’ll be dadgum.

  • JJ

    This actually is as least as important than the Lieberman thing, in my opinion. Goodbye Tailpipe Johnny.

  • kathy

    Great news. (And my guess was wrong.) And congratulations on being right.
    .

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Seems my sources this ayem were incorrect….

    You will of course bear this in mind the next time the same people have further tidbits….
    ;-0

  • Paul-no not that one

    Who gets Oversight?

  • Andy from MA

    NFW, really? JNS, this is a pleasant surprise. Time to get some new sources.

  • kbanginmotown

    Great news. I’m afraid that the Michigan news media will play it as a loss of influence for our state. Hopefully they’ll be able to take the long view.
    .
    Which Committee is up for a vote next?

  • nibblybits

    JNS, can you find out the vote?.
    .
    I wrote why I thought this would happen in the other thread, but it couldn’t have helped Dingell when his frail carcass had to be wheeled in the chamber in a wheelchair. Tell me he didn’t have oxygen.
    .
    The critical difference between the House and the Senate is the difference in power between Pelosi and Reid. This was Pelosi’s victory, and they smartly kept their whip operation low-profile. I would bet they got a huge proportion of the newer reps. The Senate is a club, but the House is different. They all have to run again in 2 years. They want to front-end the agenda.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Elder Abuse week in Congress!

  • hickoryduck

    From Politico: The vote was 137-122 in favor of Waxman.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    JNS
    .
    I have only one request of you and if you fullfil it I will NEVER EVER ask you for anything else…for the next five minutes. Can you please ask someone off the record if the vote for Waxman in any way reflects the blowback the Democratic Senators are getting from allowing Liebeman to keep his gavel
    .
    Thanks in advance

  • nibblybits

    hickoryduck: Thanks. We knew it was going to be close.
    .
    Pelosi is the new Iron Lady. There is no question who rules the Hill.

  • JJ

    I wonder if the incoming administration has anything to do with it. He was pretty unequivocal the other day that lowering emissions was going to be a major agenda item of his. Without a doubt, Dingell was going to stand in the way.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    SG — I know you want to hope this is the case, but this is just part of the strategy to achieve the energy revolution man. Waxman (the best damn legislator in the house) on energy and removing Lieberman from environment, making deal with Lieberman (and possibly McCain and Graham) for support its all part of fulfilling Obama’s top priority and the most critical move for long -term economic security for the nation.

  • Andy from MA

    Bits and duck: I thought the margin of victory was wider than I expected.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    via KagroX
    .
    UPDATE: Looking back at Blue Dog Jim Matheson’s assessment of the predictive value of the Steering Committee decision, I think he gets the buzzer on this one. The Steering Committee went 25-22, or 53.2%, for Waxman. The full Caucus went 137-122, or 52.9%, for Waxman

  • Paul-no not that one

    People forget Pelosi is a Baltimore politician representing San Francisco.

  • FlownOver

    Damn… here I was, all set with a nice, snarky Karate Kid reference, and these guys go and do the right thing!

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Seriously, I’d say it mattered that Dingell is 82.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Dee
    .
    Maybe you don’t understand the significance of this move but even though the house doesnt have the prounounced seniority system of the Senate, historically they have followed some semblance of order tied to seniority. And I don’t know how many times this has EVER happened but I can guarantee you if it has ever happened before that a sitting Chairman was unseated in the House its been a LONG AZZ TIME since that happened. Its entirely possible that the Lieberman decision pushed some in the House not to go by normal rules and back Waxman because even though he wasn’t senior to Dingell, he is the right man for the job.
    .
    By the way Dee you have seen the reports where Lieberman said he wasnt punished at all right?
    .
    If not here you go
    .
    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/20/91650/621/72/664039

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    JNS – Continuing to beat the horse, you ought to write an article about the impact of this “change election,” in terms of both aged members of Congress and aged traditions of Congress. I’d say they are taking a beating, but still answering the bell. It’d be interesting.

  • nibblybits

    Sorry, sgw, but the results could have been predicted a week ago when Waxman made this play. He wouldn’t have done it, if he didn’t have Pelosi’s support and therefore, the votes. Never go to the floor unless you have the votes. The Steering Committee was just a formality, as they are controlled by Pelosi and the leadership anyway.
    .
    With this, energy and healthcare vaults up to top priorities on the agenda, as Obama promised. Pelosi and Waxman will be point on those issues, making them the most powerful people on the Hill.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    By the way
    .
    Little known secret is I played football with Heath Shuler at Tennessee. I state this because I am watching him right now on CSPAN questioning this guy from the Treasury Department about the bailout and the credit crisis. And while I am TREMENDOUSLY proud that he has been elected to the House of Representatives, I have to tell you that he was dumb as a box of rocks in college and it doesn’t seem as if he has had a brain transplant since then. How did he get elected to help run our country?

  • sgwhiteinfla

    nibblybits
    .
    Problem with what you are saying is that if the initial reports are to be believed it was a very close election. Its hard for me to believe that they knew EVERY vote as it would be cast. Conversely if he Senate Dems HAD kicked Lieberman out there may have been a blowback from blue dogs who would vote to keep Dingell. Its hard to just dismiss out of hand that it had NO impact

  • nibblybits

    sgw, you are on the wrong trail, ascribing this in any way to Lieberman. (You might be a little obsessed there.) Lieberman and the Senate had NOTHING to do with this. The plan to take over Energy has been percolating for a long time, because Obama’s agenda makes that committee the most important on the Hill. It covers energy, environment, health care and telecommunications. Don’t you think Pelosi and Waxman want control of that critical committee rather than leave it in the hands of someone who’s used to taking naps half the time? (And Waxman foresees no action in Oversight anymore, now that his own party has taken over the executive branch.)
    .
    This was a power play, not a commentary on Dingell or Lieberman or anyone else.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Hey, that’s pretty neat, sgwhiteinfla.
    -
    How did he get elected to help run our country?
    -
    Because he’s tall and comfortable in crowds.
    -
    Nobody really believes that you get to the top of politics through sheer mental might. I mean, really, Newt Gingrich and Tom DeLay?

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    SG — I get it the significance of this I am only posing that there may be a reason for this stunning move that is beyond blow back for Lieberman. Waxman is absolutely the best man for the job and Pelosi orchestrated this coup because with Dingell at the helm the ability to come up with the creative legislation that will be needed to succeed is difficult to imagine. I think this is just more about putting the people in place that have the talent and motivation to succeed. I also just find it striking that the only supposed punishment doe Lieberman was lost of the environment and public works sub-committee, considering that they will also be crucial to the energy agenda and infrastructure based economic stimulus clearly Obama doesn’t want him there to gum up the works of his major initiative.
    .
    And to Lieberman’s lack of contrition — he’s just trying to save face this is a typical Washington practice. When he reiterated that Obama was chiefly responsible for his retention of the Homeland gavel he was once again acknowledging where his bread is buttered.

  • nibblybits

    No, we knew it was gonna be close. But Waxman also knew he had the votes. If you had been following this like I have, the difference between the two whip groups couldn’t have been more stark.
    .
    Waxman laid the groundwork by giving quietly to campaigns for months. When he made the play, it was with Pelosi’s blessing. Dingell was caught off guard. His first calls were to K Street lobbyists and the Michigan delegates. He also called the most senior congresspeople, the other committee chairmen who believe in seniority. Dingell sent out very public announcements about his whip team and his support. He showed his high-profile names. Waxman did none of these things. His whip operation was very quiet, mostly because HE HAD THE VOTES. Dingell sounded desperate the past couple weeks. Waxman said nothing. He wasn’t worried because he had the votes.

  • hickoryduck

    sgw, I really do think you are becoming a bit obsessed about Lieberman. The Waxman coup has been a long time in the making.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    nibbly
    .
    I just remember how Pelosi “orchestrated” Murtha’s run against Hoyer. That didnt turn out so well did it?

  • kathy

    nibblybits – good for being right, but you’re rubbing it in a bit.

  • terrapinion

    This is good news.
    .
    I have yet to hear a convincing argument for why Dingell should keep his seat. It does not matter to me how many times he votes with the Democratic caucus – it matters to me how well he performed as chairman. By that standard I have been less than impressed with him.
    .
    This is why I have been opposed to Lieberman keeping his gavels: he has been completely – CRIMINALLY – incompetent as chairman of his committees; especially the one that he was allowed to keep. No questions, no hearings, no investigations during the most corrupt, the most sinisterly unconstitutional administration in the history of this nation. He is a quisling of the highest order.
    .
    But now that he is overseeing a Democratic administration we can look forward to his scolding and concern-trolling until his term is expired and he takes a cushy job as a Washington lobbyist.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    hickory
    .
    I know that and I said earlier today on another thread that Waxman SHOULD get the chair. Its not about that. Its about the Democrats in Congress doing something that they never really do. And in light of the fact that Waxman won by all of 2 points its just hard for me to sit here and say they knew they had the votes for sure. Another reason I don’t believe it is this nugget.
    .
    again from kagroX
    .
    And, we are quite properly reminded by CQ Politics:
    .
    In addition, five committee chairmen who usually serve on the steering committee could not vote because the caucus has not yet ratified them. They might have tipped the balance to Dingell.
    .
    Very true. Missing from the rolls of the Steering Committee were the Chairs of the Ways & Means, Financial Services, Appropriations and, of course, Energy & Commerce Committees, who sit on Steering by virtue of their positions. Not sure who the fifth missing chair was. But sitting committee chairmen tend, all things considered, to have a vested interest in protecting the primacy of the seniority system. It’s possible that with just a three vote margin in yesterday’s vote, having a full slate at the Steering Committee (minus the E&C slot, I guess) could have changed the outcome, and possibly colored this vote very differently. The Steering Committee’s decision surely fed a feeling of momentum for Waxman that might not have been there otherwise

  • FlownOver

    Elvis – Are Newtie and Delay really stupid, or just evil? They seem able to concoct a false, but pretty decent argument on the spot explaining the end of civilization that would result from anything any Democrat proposes. Isn’t that (dubious) talent what got them to the top of the garbage heap?

  • kathy

    terrapinion – agreed, but competence doesn’t seem to be the general critieria for chairmanship. It’s very rare that it isn’t based on seniority.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    SG- you don’t jump all over me so I am clearly not going to jump all over you. I can understand why you are looking for a Lieberman connections in unfolding events because he behaved so badly that there just has to be a better reason than just post-partisanship or civility explain why they didn’t beat him down for it. but the truth is the game is long and I don’t think in the long run he has gotten away with it. The conversations that take place in public are not what matters — give it time and watch his actions down the road and you will see a legislatively more subdued Lieberman.

  • nibblybits

    kathy: I’m not trying to ‘rub it in’; I just think it’s important to know what is going on, and why and how.
    .
    As for Murtha, sgw is right. She tried to shove a very unpopular guy into the race, just because he was hers. Didn’t work. But that was a number of years ago, and I think she’s managed to accumulate a bit more power. It helps that Waxman is just a better guy than Murtha (or Dingell).

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Dee
    .
    LOL a legislatively more subdued Lieberman??? Really? OK we will truly wait on that one
    .
    roll:
    .
    lol

  • sgwhiteinfla

    :roll:

  • formerlyjames

    I’m not sure that the fact that the vote was close means anything. I defer to nibbly who offers a very logical argument. The final votes can be hedged, groomed, fixed, knowing all the while what the outcome will be. They do that you know.

  • Jay Newton-Small

    sgwhiteinfla: I asked, totally independent and not influence by Lieberman at all.

    PNNTO and nibblybitts: I have updated with the info you requested.
    JNS

  • terrapinion

    kathy – You wrote: “…competence doesn’t seem to be the general critieria for chairmanship. It’s very rare that it isn’t based on seniority.”

    Precisely. It is the seniority-based system that rubs me the wrong way. But, whatever, today was a good day. I will take my pleasures as they come.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    JNS
    .
    Thanks and Drats, foiled again!
    . :oops:

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Are Newtie and Delay really stupid, or just evil?
    -
    Oh, trying to get me with a trick question, are you? Well, I did OK on the SATs– I pick (c): “both (a) and (b).”
    -
    They seem able to concoct a false, but pretty decent argument on the spot explaining the end of civilization that would result from anything any Democrat proposes.
    -
    Well, sure, but it’s not all that hard. It just as to persuade Sarah Palins, Palin cultists, and give Deborah Howell types something to repeat. We’re not talking about concocting Nash equilibrium, here. Just something that heightens and plays on resentment. That stuff comes naturally to us humans.
    -
    Here is DeLay on Colbert. Here is DeLay issuing a press release praising Colbert for ferreting out Robert Greenwald’s nefarious America-hating motivations.

  • Andy from MA

    SG: It looks to me like we’re batting .500 on key committee chair positions. Batting .500 is pretty good. Heck a .250 hitter in the majors is making more than a million a year.
    .
    Now I’m going to have look in the Volunteer football archives to determine your real identity.
    .
    I am seriously thinking about relocating to CT so I can vote again Lieberman in 2010.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Thanks JNS.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Andy
    .
    DON’T DO IT LOL
    .
    Im a nobody, I didnt even make it into the archives

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Elvis
    .
    Delay is truly a dumbazz. Newt is just smart enough to be dangerous. I think I would much rather have Delay still in office because NOBODY believes anything he says anymore

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    SG — LOL a legislatively more subdued Lieberman???
    .
    Okay maybe that was a bit much — because he is probably personally to arrogant to be subdued, but I do think that as much as possible Democrats will move to make his areas of influence less relevant to the immediate agenda. I know homeland is a big one -so lets see how effectively they can keep him contained and if he breaks the deal and tries to gum up the works than I will publicly admit my wrongheadedness.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Im thread jacking but who cares.
    .
    Did everybody else know that McConnell is apparently not speaking to Reid? I swear this is funny but very very juvenille also
    .
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/20/mitch-mcconnell-wont-spea_n_145187.html

  • Andy from MA

    Elvis, I just got finished reading the Delay press release. I wish I could make that cartoon sound effect when the cartoon character shakes their head in disbelief.
    .
    I think both Gingrich and DeLay possess animal cunning. Gingrich possibly has more intelligence; certainly more education, then exterminator Mr. Delay.
    .
    They possess the skills and abilities of a Joseph Goebbel and Leni Riefenstahl, or if you’re too young to recognize those people, Roger Ailes and Fox News.
    .
    They’re all members of the cult, make no mistake about that. The Republica party is a cult.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Wow. What an amazing contrast this week between the upper and lower houses. Very good, I’d say. This is how change happens when filtered through living institutions with long traditions. The Waxman win significantly changes the serve to Boehner now and likely has that caucus on edge. Obama’s “change” wave is coming ashore.

  • nibblybits

    sgw: Your batting average is pretty good around these parts. No need for blushes.

  • Andy from MA

    Coffee–the House lives in the present…the Senate is in awe of its past.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    lol thanks nibbly

  • nibblybits

    You know, stuff like this makes me think that it was a HUGE benefit to have a congressperson in the presidency, instead of some yahoo governor from Arkansas and Texas. Look at all the stuff that’s going on *before* inauguration. The groundwork Obama is laying, in his personnel choices and switching people around on the Hill, shows that he’s really thought about what it takes to get his policies enacted.
    .
    Makes me wonder why we haven’t had a congressman win for president since JFK.

  • kathy

    MSNBC REPORTING SENATE HAS AGREED TO A DETROIT DEAL (though why I’m watching Contessa Brewer I couldn’t tell you. too lazy to get up and change the channel. she. is. awful)

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I like it, Andy. I think it’s as intended, Change is a wave, and it’s going to come ashore as waves do … relentlessly and periodically. Even though this time the change happens to be in my favored direction, I don’t think it’s a good thing for it to be a screeching stop and full reverse. I think the Constitution is shining again amid the chaos of this electoral shift.

  • kathy

    Nate Silver has a very good entry on the nature of talk radio conservatives. Doesn’t quite say right out loud that conservatives fall for talk radio because it’s not rational, but he implies it.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Dee
    .
    The day after the guy was allowed to keep his gavel he went on the record twice as saying he wasn’t punished at all knowing full well that the Dems put their azzes on the line in keeping him as chair of the HSC. And it was to the point that a Harry Reid spokeman had to refute him. That tells me that he will be far from subdued. Don’t forget that he took the teeth out of his “punishment” during the press conference anyway by announcing he was bringing a climate change bill to the floor with McCain anyway. That dude has just been given a license to act up and I think he will use it. But I will wait and see just like you, but rest assured I will say “I told you so” when he acts up in the least obnoxious way that I can

  • sgwhiteinfla

    kathy
    .
    How good was it to have Elijah Cummings set her straight? I love that guy

  • Andy from MA

    Here’s a good story on Waxman and his key aide is headed for the WH.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/21/us/politics/21dingell.html?hp

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    SG
    .
    And if forced to eat crow I will acknowledge that you at least provided condiments

  • sgwhiteinfla

    BTW
    .
    Cummings may get Waxman’s old gavel. I certainly hope so!
    .
    http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/maloney-backs-towns-for-oversight-post-2008-11-19.html

  • Cliff

    So tell me about Towns. Any idea if he’ll continue Waxman’s trend of actually doing his godd-mned job?

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Well maybe I’m being selfish because Cummings is my Congressman, but he gets my vote – oh I did that already.

  • beccabyrd

    kathy- isn’t it serendipitous that Dingellberry got flushed and Waxman gets his seat (don’t bother pardoning the pun) and there’s news of a possible deal for Detroit?

    Do I dare to dream that, even with gas prices plummeting (they always seem to rise and fall at crucial moments, don’t they?)the focus will remain on alternatives?

    BTW- are you kathy of KUSA? I’m dying to ask about your cats, if so.

  • nibblybits

    How far does this go?
    .
    Now that Oversight is open, there’s some jockeying. Edolphus Towns, who has seniority and backed Dingell, is going against Elijah Cummings, who is 5th in line and backed Waxman.
    .
    http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/maloney-backs-towns-for-oversight-post-2008-11-19.html

  • nibblybits

    Whoa. Sorry, sgw is way ahead of me.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd
  • kathy

    beccabyrd – Not KUSA kathy. Sorry about that. My cats would appreciate your interest anyway. two tigers 1 year old, one seems to be a coon cat. Love them both to pieces.

  • kathy

    Waxman’s gavel’s gone to Towns. Is this consolation prize to Dingell?

    SG – I usually turn to another channel when Brewer’s on. Can’t abide her. Turns everything into a very large drama, interrupts guests as a matter of principle. Did you ever see her when she was reading the news on Imus? Didn’t work for her. She didn’t keep good boundaries from Imus’ jokes. yecch.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    kathy
    .
    They decided to give it to Towns already? Wow. From what I understood Cummings was next in line though

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=1191832308&ref=name Shakespeare in GA

    kathy says: SG – I usually turn to another channel when Brewer’s on. Can’t abide her. Turns everything into a very large drama, interrupts guests as a matter of principle.
    .
    Her name’s Contessa. Go figure.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Rep. John Dingell’s (D-Mich.) supporters are crying foul over how a key aspect of the fight for the chairmanship of the Energy and Commerce Committee was handled.
    .
    Before the secret-ballot vote Thursday that gave the gavel to Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) complained that Dingell was unfairly denied several key votes in the Democrats’ Steering and Policy Committee.

    .

    The panel endorsed Waxman 25-22 in a closed-door session Wednesday. But the so-called “exclusive” committee chairmen were not allowed to vote, because their selection had not been ratified by the full caucus for the next Congress.
    .
    That denied Dingell at least three votes — those of Ways and Means Chairman Charlie Rangel (D-N.Y.), Judiciary Chairman John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.), three “exclusive” chairmen who had publicly endorsed Dingell.
    .
    Those three would have tied the Steering Committee vote. If Dingell, as the sitting Energy and Commerce chairman, had been allowed to vote, he would have won the endorsement of the influential committee.
    .
    But either way, both names would have gone to the full caucus for a vote.

    .
    “I doubt seriously it would have changed the outcome,” said a Dingell supporter.
    .
    Stupak said that in the past, sitting chairmen had been allowed to vote.
    .
    A former Steering Committee member who supported Dingell said not allowing “exclusive” chairmen to vote was unprecedented.

    .
    “In the past, they’ve always voted,” the member said. The member said that incoming House Democratic Caucus Chairman John Larson (D-Conn.) said that the rules had been followed, but that Dingell supporters weren’t satisfied.
    .
    A Democratic leadership aide said Larson explained that he’d consulted extensively with Organization, Study and Review Chairman Michael Capuano (D-Mass.), who determined that exclusive chairmen were not eligible to vote.

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