What if Lieberman Leaves?

Commentator sgwhitefla got me thinking in the last post: what happens if Joe Lieberman decides to leave the Senate tomorrow? The caucus is meeting to determine his fate and if he does leave, he would throw the majority of the chamber to the GOP for all of the three days left in the session. It’s an interesting question, so I asked the Senate Historian’s Office. Turns out there are two precedents:

1)    In the 83rd Congress in the 1950’s there was a series of untimely deaths – nine in total – which left the majority with fewer seats, at times, than the minority. But all two-year sessions are done under organizing resolutions and this one did not prepare/allow for a change in power so the majority retained control throughout the session.

2)   Some of you may remember the tumultuous 107th Congress where the Senate was split 50-50. Vice President Al Gore gave the Dems the majority Jan. 3-20 and then Vice President Dick Cheney gave the GOP majority from Jan. 3-June 6 when Vermont Senator Jim Jeffords defected to the other side, handing Daschle control of the chamber for the remainder of the session. That was only possible because the organizing resolution had built into it a clause that allowed for shifts in majority status.

I’m told that there is no such clause this time around as when they were organizing in 2006 South Dakota Senator Tim Johnson had his unfortunately health scare and adding in such a provision seemed, well, morbidly unseemly. A source also tells me this time around there’s a kind of unspoken gentleman’s agreement that the GOP isn’t going to force a switch over for the remaining few days if indeed Lieberman switches sides. And, when asked about this, Jim Manley, senior adviser to Harry Reid, bristled: Lieberman’s “not going anywhere and we are not losing the majority.”

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  • palininatowel

    Lieberman is such an attention wh*re. There is no way he would “just walk away.” No one is bigger in the mind of Joe Lieberman than Joe Lieberman. If I were the Dems, I’d call his bluff and dare him to jump to the other side. Make him an irrelevant back-bencher, living out the rest of his term in the minority. The more he votes with Republicans, the more he dooms any possibility of ever winning again in Connecticut.
    -
    He’ll probably retire after his term, anyway. Still, watching him finish out in obscurity would just kill him. “Moth-to-the-flame” and all that.
    -
    I would love to watch him langushing in the shadows for the next few years.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Jim Manley might not understand it but most Dems WANT LIEberman to leave. I don’t necessarily want him to block the auto bailout but I DO want him stripped of his chairmanship and Harry Reid would be wise to listen to the will of the people on this one or he won’t be majority leader much longer!

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Fun stuff, Jay, neat post, and thanks for the reaction from Reid’s camp.

  • Andy from MA

    JNS…this was thoughtful. Thanks for pursuing this; good reporting.
    I’m with Elvis on this.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Great, JNS. You’ve fueled sgwhite’s Lieberman revenge fantasies. I hope you’re happy. Dude, listen to me — you are forgiven.

  • Cliff

    Oh my sweet f–k, what will it take to break Reid’s death-clinch on Lieberman?

  • wvng

    I think most Dems want Lieberman to be where he can do the least harm. And they want him to be pantsed.

  • palininatowel

    Lieberman.
    -
    In the cloak room.
    -
    With Larry Craig.

  • Andy from MA

    Coffee and SG: What we really need is SG vs. Joe Lieberman as contestants on “Celebrity Death Match.”

  • wvng
  • palininatowel

    wvng,
    -
    If Carper is saying that (Lieberman’s DLC bosom buddy), then ol’ Joe really is in trouble. Regardless of what Harry Reid says.

  • Andy from MA

    I don’t mean to pick on my friend SG. I believe many of us want the new adminstration to start immediately. I think we all want January 20th to get here, like tomorrow. Inauguration day used to March 4th. What is the value in moving up sooner than January 20th? Is it feasible, since this is the 21st century.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Andy
    .
    Nah more like a ginned up Zell Miller and Joe LIEberman in a duel!!!
    .

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Andy
    .
    Trust me I didnt take it that way. I really AM obsessed with LIEberman getting punished. I just think it would shake off that milk toast label from the Dems if they finally show they aren’t going to put up with his kinda bull. And its going to send the exact opposite message if they don’t punish him in my opinion.

  • wvng

    sgw- ditto.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    @sgw – I meant to pick on you.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    pourme
    .
    lol I wouldnt have it any other way!

  • wvng

    Carper also said: “There need to be consequences, and they cannot be insignificant.” Same link.
    .
    Pantsed for sure.
    .
    With YouTube video.
    .
    Ewwwww.

  • 53_3

    Liebermann as a GOPer would be a liberal thorn in their side. I don’t think he would be willing to accept taking one for the Gipper any more than he would be willing to accept a dirctive from the Caucus to tow the line in order to stay.
    .
    The best thing:
    .
    Keep him in the Democrtaic party under the above caveat. He can stay on foriegn policy committees only if he’s not in a position to gum up the works for Obama. That means, at the very least, no chairmanships. If he strays, fire his azz and put someone in the field in Conn to run against him.
    .

  • sgwhiteinfla

    53_3
    .
    I think you and Senatory Kyl from yesterday make the most compelling cases for why Lieberman should be kicked out of the caucus. If he is going to vote the same way for all intents and purposes and we don’t need him to be in the majority then what tangible benefit does the Democratic party gain by keeping him in the party? When someone can answer that for me in a way that I can get on board with then I will drop the LIEberman hate. But Im not holding my breath!
    .
    http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/16/dorgan-lieberman/

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    They made an organization deal at the start of the session leaving the Dems in charge. Nothing would happen. Please recall that Lieberman is not a Democrat.

  • Lulu Lulu

    JNS…good post btw, but can you please change “less seats” to “fewer seats” in #1? That’s an all-too-common grammatical pitfall that drives me insane.

    Fewer when it’s things you can count (seats, balloons, Cabinet appointees), less when it’s an amount that can’t really be counted (water, snow, regulation).

    Thanks JNS! You’ll be doing a world of good for the English language!

  • Lulu Lulu

    And no preview button to allow me to fix tags in the post where I correct someone’s grammar. Sigh.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    And can I just say that it should be a little embarrassing that KagroX, anonymous blogger, knows way more than someone who has worked the Congress beat professionally.

  • wvng

    SGW, you will appreciate this.

  • 53_3

    “I think you and Senatory Kyl from yesterday make the most compelling cases for why Lieberman should be kicked out of the caucus.”
    .
    I havn’t convinced myself that he should stay, either. He’s kind of like a cross between the worst the GOP has to offer (the Neocons) and the best the Dems have to offer (his liberal social record).
    .
    I’m flipflopping worse than Palin in an interview, I realize that, but I’m definately torn. I want to kick him in the azz, but I see why Obama is trying to influence things in favor of some form of forgivenness.
    .
    I think Obama’s team is the main driver between the push for forgivenness, really, and that the Liebermann-hating is almost universal. I don’t like it that he campaigned against two Dem congresscritters neither.
    .
    I’m really in favor of being neutral on this till someone decides for me. Only then will I actually make a decision.
    .
    Sort of…

  • Andy from MA

    53_3: thanks for not sugarcoating your feelings, and telling us like it is; without equivocating.

  • Andy from MA

    Ok, I thought that Joe was going to become a Republican. Perhaps not. Here is the Dems win-win scenario. He keeps his chairmanship but is on a very very short leash. Obama has time to build a bipartisan coalition. If Joe strays off the reservation, just once. Bam! He’s gone.

  • Jay Newton-Small

    jayackroyd:
    What’s the kagroX post you’re referring to?

  • 53_3

    Andy:
    .
    You are very welcome!

  • Jay Newton-Small

    lulu lulu: I made your requested change. JNS

  • sgwhiteinfla

    wvng
    .
    I did and I didn’t appreciate it because the guy didnt come out and say unequivically that he wanted to take the gavel away. But seeing as how he and LIEberman are supposed to be boys then I guess it does carry some weight. I want some big whigs to come out and blast him. I want Al Franken to say something like “Who knows, maybe those 206 voters separating me and Coleman were voters who listened to Joe Lieberman.”. i want Howard Dean to put the wood to him in the press. And finally I want Al Gore to come out and say LIEberman sabotaged the recount and therefore his is partly responsible for the last 8 years. Oh and a good pantsing wouldn’t hurt!

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    I’m saying, in general, that Kagro X displays a deeper knowledge of the Hill than this post does. But let me poke around DK and see what he has posted on the initial organization rules.

  • Lulu Lulu

    Thanks JNS! The nerd in me has been validated!

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Well, this isn’t Kagro, but it makes the same point.
    .
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/18/211259/764
    .

    .
    There has been some confusion and uncertainty as to whether Joe Lieberman has the power to flip control of the Senate to the Republicans. I come bearing good news!! As of this past Friday (January 12), it appears that Lieberman is powerless to effect party control of the 110th Congress.
    .
    This is due to the fact that the Senate passed a resolution on January 12 (S.Res. 27) that designates various Democrats by name as committee chairs and specifies the Democratic members of each committee. The Senate also passed a similar resolution (S. Res. 28) the same day that names various Republicans as the ranking minority members of each committee and specifies the Republican members of each committee. Based on these two resolutions, the membership of each standing committee in the Senate appears to be fixed for the duration of this Congress. Further, it includes one more Democratic member than it does Republican members in each case, thereby providing Democrats with control of the committee system and the flow of legislation in the Senate.
    .
    What is sigificant about these resolutions is that neither contains any provisions for implementation of a change in the party affiliation of committee chairs or the party make up of each committee even if there is a change in the identity of the party with the numerical majority in the Senate. Taken together, these resolutions appear to lock in Democratic control of the Senate for the entire 110th Congress (2007 and 2008). The reason that they lock in control is that they cannot be changed without further action by the Senate, which would require a filibuster-proof majority of 60 senators who were willing to support a change in party control of the Senate. It is possible that such a filibuster-proof majority could emerge in the event of a shift of a seat from Democratic to Republican hands and a 50-50 deadlock in the Senate (with Cheney the tie-breaker) but it is not likely that the 10 Democratic senators required to produce that 60-vote majority would agree to vote with the Republicans on organizational matters

    .
    I note again that a block quote implementation that doesn’t preserve paragraph breaks in pasted content is not an acceptable block quote implementation.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Lieberman is of no earthly use to the Democratic Party. It’s a fantasy to believe forgiveness and going soft on him will entice him to play nice. The consequences need to be severe – lose the chairmanship!
    .

    The Democratic Party cannot let Lieberman keep his perks after what he’s done – doing so will only re-enforce the perception of weakness.

  • Jay Newton-Small

    jayackroyd:
    I looked @ kagro X and only see a post today about how Lieberman’s committee controls the budget for Washington DC. Are you questioning a particular point in my post that you believe is wrong? Or are you simply saying that in general my posts on Congress are badly informed? JNS

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    JNS–
    .
    Also, my point was that the inability of any change of Lieberman’s status was settled during the initial organization in 2007. It’s true that the blogosphere followed this closely; we loved Ned Lamont. But it’s still the case that this had nothing to do with Johnson’s stroke, that the 49 plus Bernie plus Holy Joe locked in Democratic control at the beginning of the session, for the duration of the session.
    .
    I didn’t link or look this up on my initial comment because this fell into an “asked and answered” category for me. But I should have. My apologies.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Ah. cross post.
    .
    I’m saying you’re reporting today on a non-issue, one that was settled in 2007, and if I knew that, you should know that, given your beat, given Jeffords’ switching so recently, and given how Lieberman won.
    .
    A more interesting story to look into is whether Specter, Snowe or Collins could be moved. I don’t think it’s possible for the Mainers–Mainers don’t really care about party. Collins, maybe, if she could get a defense subcommittee that keeps Bath Ironworks safe, given the possibility of defense cuts. (Yes, I know that seems impossible at the moment. But something has to go to pay for all the stuff that’s been happening lately.)

  • ralphkramden17

    Imagine a land populated by sentient potatoes. It’s ruled by a benevolent monarch, whom the entire population loves. The King and his Queen have a daughter, Princess Idaho. One day, the king decides his daughter is old enough to marry, so that the monarchy will continue after he is gone. So, they schedule a Grand Ball, inviting the cream-of-the-crop of all the eligible young bachelor potatoes of the kingdom. From this auspicious group, the Princess should consider whom to wed.

    The night of the ball, the Princess looks radiant. She makes small talk with the top potatoes from the best university. She dances with all the movie-star potatoes, and she spends time with all the prize-winning athlete potatoes.

    After the party, the king and queen visit the princess’ bedroom. The king says, “Well, my dear, what do you think? You come from a fine line of potatoes. You’ve met the brightest, the handsomest, and the strongest potatoes the land has to offer. Who among them are you interested in marrying?”

    She replies, “I don’t want to marry any of them. I want to marry sgwhiteinfla.”

    The queen gasps, but remains silent. The king turns russet red in the face. After a second to regain his composure, he tells the princess, “I forbid it! You cannot marry sgwhiteinfla; he’s just a common-tater.”

    (h/t: http://www.awpi.com/Combs/Shaggy/151.html)

  • wvng

    AndyMa says: “He keeps his chairmanship but is on a very very short leash. Obama has time to build a bipartisan coalition. If Joe strays off the reservation, just once. Bam! He’s gone.” I think Rachel dealt pretty effectively and brutally with that scenario.

    .
    The problem is the politics of removing him from “his” chairmanship if he starts acting up with gratuitous, false, and mean-spirited oversight investigations of the Obama administration. At that point, it is too late. He would get full support from the repugs in making a case that the dems are trying to stifle legitimate oversight. Doesn’t take more than a moment to imagine him on the teevee whining about it and the cable folks eating it up.
    .
    Not.Worth.The.Risk.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    wvng–
    .
    The realistic scenario is that he will hand the shiv over to Reid, but won’t wield it in any public way.
    .
    Lieberman has no leverage at all.

  • Jay Newton-Small

    Hmm Jay,
    Not everyone follows this stuff as closely as you and I, and I thought a reminder @ this point would be helpful and informative. Apparently, this has earned me derision in your book… As for Collins, Snowe or Specter — I have not heard of any rumors of any of them flipping but I will keep my ear to the ground here in the Senate Press Gallery. JNS

  • theborgenproject

    . “The Borgen Project has some good info on the cost of addressing global poverty.
    $30 billion: Annual shortfall to end world hunger.
    $540 billion: Annual U.S. Defense Budget.”

  • sgwhiteinfla

    wvng
    .
    Not only that but to remove him from his chairmanship after he does something they don’t like will require a full vote by the senate Dems and Republicans and would be subject to filibuster. So really it would be IMPOSSIBLE to remove him if they don’t do it now whether the public agreed with doing it or not.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    What I want to know is why we had a dangon moderation filter for almost 3 weeks but TIME cant get rid of spammers like theborgenproject or OhGreaTone?

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Uhmm how did I end up in ralphkramdan’s fairy tale? lol

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    JNS-
    .
    The story as written is simply inaccuate. That’s my problem. There’s no need to consult the Senate historian or refer to any gentleman’s agreement reported by an anonymous source or refer to Johnson’s condition (or Kennedy’s FTM). This senate was organized with no party in the majority under rules that left the Democrats in control regardless of changes in party status by any Senator. Lieberman’s status, elected in opposition to the CT Democratic nominee, made these organizational decisions important, newsworthy and memorable at the time.
    .
    A post that said “In response to commenter sgw’s concern about the status of the senate, I just want remind people that this was settled when the senate was organized in January 2007. Democrats will remain in control through the lame duck session regardless of Lieberman’s status.” would have been an accurate reminder.
    .
    Yeah, and maybe I’m just quibbling or being captious. That’s your call.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    SG — I’m on board now. Renegade clarified that he wasn’t taking a position and that his only desire was to see Lieberman not be kicked out of the caucus. He didn’t say anything about Lieberman walking out on his own accord. So I’m ready to join the procession to rip the gavel out of Lieberman’s cold dead hand.

  • savagemouse

    I haven’t read all the replies and maybe someone has already pointed this out, but there is no way Joe Lieberman wins in Conn. with an R by his name. If he flips to the other side he will never get re-elected.

  • wvng

    Continuing sgw’s “removal subject to filibuster” thought, and disputing jay’s “he’s got no leverage”, Lieberman’s leverage is the repuglican party’s sheer joy in doing anything that constitutes poking a sharp stick in the eye of liberals regardless of the merits of the situation. I see no sign that they have changed as a result of the election. I see no benefit to giving them any additional sticks.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    wvng
    .
    This may sound crass but when I was in college nobody got props for accepting sloppy seconds. Im just saying!

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Dee
    .
    I am glad to see that more people are coming over to the dark side lol. Seriously did you see the video I posted down thread from kos that shows the clip of Lieberman selling Al Gore out in 2000? This has been a LONG time coming!

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    I haven’t read all the replies and maybe someone has already pointed this out, but there is no way Joe Lieberman wins in Conn. with an R by his name. If he flips to the other side he will never get re-elected.
    .
    He’s toast. He only won because enough Democrat voters believed him when he said he’d remain loyal. Lamont will smoke him in a rematch. And I think, having spoken with him once, he will run again.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/17/123448/03/824/662270
    .
    Markos makes some points about the impact of a secret ballot re Lieberman.
    .
    Most interesting point is that constituents will want to know how the senators vote. A secret ballot may be impossible for the senate to hold on a question that involves significant constituent interest.

  • wvng

    Markos is probably right if they vote to keep Lieberman in his chairmanship. Otherwise, I suspect people will move on.

  • rayj1

    We need about 1/2 of the House and Senate to be people like Joe Lieberman. People who vote their conscience and not just party line.
    Both the far left 20% and far right 20% are scary. 60% of the voters are somewhere in the middle. I am not sure either party serves the majority of the people. A big part of the problem we are in is we tend to swing to the left and then to the right. With no clear path down the middle of the road.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    rayj1
    .
    Uhmm you do realize that LIEberman still votes with the Dems close to 90 percent of the time right? Or are you swallowing his “vote my conscious” bullsh!t like a lot of people were swallowing John McCain’s maverick bullsh!t? And by the way I personally don’t have a problem with Lieberman voting how ever he wants to vote. As long as he isnt rewarded by keeping his chairmanship.

  • rayj1

    sgwhiteinfla

    My point exactly. If you don’t follow party lines exactly you are some kind of an outcast. You can’t be a chairman of a committee. This is the same thinking AIG followed. Those who disagreed with the path of the company were forced out. If every Senator and House Representative voted outside the party only 10 to 15 percent of the time the country would be in better shape.

  • Andy from MA

    Ok you can take this prediction to the bank.* Lieberman will be stripped of his chairmanship tomorrow.
    .
    I feel this is the case because Obama has resigned his Senate seat and Joe’s blood will not be on his hands. Also these close colleagues of Joe who are asking that retribution come swiftly indicate that Joe will soon be an Army of one.
    .
    * useless hyperbole

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    rayj1
    Lets not get it twisted. People don’t want to oust Lieberman beause he voted or not voted in step with party dictates. they want thim gone becaue he is a liar. The Senate is a placwe where your word or handshake is golden or at least it is supposed to be. Lieberman gave his word that he wouldn personally attack Obama let alone fellow Democrats he said he was only going to support his friends. And the lure of becoming McCain’s VP made hism take the gamble on betrayng his party. He lost and now his chairmanship chips now belong to the house.

  • Aaron

    That was only possible because the organizing resolution had built into it a clause that allowed for shifts in majority status.

    There is no such clause this time around because there usually is no such clause. That was only done because, as noted, “the Senate was split 50-50″ at the time the organizing resolution was drafted. There is no such clause this time around because there was no 50-50 split that provided the impetus for that unique clause.
    .
    See Richard Neumann, h/t Hilzoy

  • wvng

    Dee, yes he is a liar. More importantly, he did a truly lousy job as HS chair.</a

  • sgwhiteinfla

    rayj1
    .
    Uhmmm no. Evidently you have it twisted my friend. You see, that 10 percent of the time that Lieberman voted against his party was the 10 percent of the time devoted to the Iraq war and national security issues which is to say he was wrong as hell 10 percent of the time. You seem to advocate breaking ranks for the sake of breaking ranks and thats patently stupid. Have you ever thought that MAYBE the Dems were actually right on the issues more than 90 percent of the time? But besides that fact you dont seem to understand the concept of being in a party. See its precisely BECAUSE Lieberman is allowed to caucus with the Dems that he is allowed to be the chairman of Homeland Security commitee however with that caveat comes the promise of loyalty. But LIEberman isnt getting sh!t canned because he voted against the Dems. He is getting sh!t canned because he CAMPAIGNED against the Dems on the presidential level as well as the senatorial level. So if he loves campaigning for the other side he is more than welcome to switch over to them. But he is NOT welcome to the perks that come with being a Dem ie commitee chairmanships when the Dems are in the majority if he is showing open opposition to the party. PERIOD. So you can go cry me a river because obviously you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

  • wvng

    And now Roll Call reports: “When Senate Democrats meet Tuesday to decide Sen. Joe Lieberman’s (ID-Conn.) fate, leaders are expected to propose that he keep his gavel at the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee but lose his Environment and Public Works subcommittee chairmanship.”
    .
    As kos says, “The only thing that matters, the only thing that Lieberman wants, and the only thing we don’t want him to have — is the chairmanship of the Homeland Security Committee.”

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Yes wvng that too. I would say that his mediocrity as chair has a lot to do with his character flaws. When you lack personal ethics its pretty hard to to notices when others are lacking. This guy has been looking out for himself since 2000, I saw the movie version anyway.

  • rayj1

    Dee
    I doubt is McCain every seriously considered Lieberman as his running mate. They both walk to a different drummer, but not the same drummer. Respectfully disagreeing with someone does not make it a personal attack or make you a liar. Both political parties talk about tolerance, freedom of speech, the rights of the individual, open mindedness, and practice my way or the highway. If its wrong for wall street, the banks, the auto industry, and AIG? Why is it good for government?

  • wvng

    In environmental science we would call rayj1 an impervious surface.
    .
    BTW, lying makes you a liar.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    rayj–

    Are you kidding me? Lieberman promised his colleagues that he would support his friend but that he wouldn’t attack Obama personally. Not only did he personally attack Obama, he endorsed Palin, who was clearly not a personal friend, and campaigned against other Democratic candidates from the Senate. In my book when you promise something and break your word that is not disagreeing with someone, that is a bold face, unmitigated lie!

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Both the far left 20%
    .
    Bullroar. Point me to a scary leftie. Never mind a scary leftie just left of the 80th percentile.
    .
    The crazy people are all on the right. The people labeled as crazy lefties–Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky to pick two–make an eff of a lot more sense than Billy Kristol. Who has a frickin’ gig at the NYTimes.
    .
    This stupid balance thing is killing us.
    .
    Dirks puts up a link to a graphic that shows the US represents 48 percent of world military expenditure. With no enemies. Is he a crazy leftie?
    .
    More to the point, will they put Dirks on teh teevee to point out the insanity of this? Or Chomsky? Who is merely the most important linguistics person of the last century.

  • rayj1

    I never said I was a big fan of Mr. Lieberman. I just like the fact he does make the people of both parties think. What scares me the most is the people who would rather have a diagnosis of terminal cancer than vote for or listen to a candidate with a slightly different point of view. I just see good people on both sides of the aisle. I really don’t care which party you belong to if I think you are the best candidate.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Here is another article about taking Lieberman’s chairmanship. The best part is the meet the bloggers clip with Cenk Uygur. Its hilarious because he truly HATES LIEberman and he has for a LONG time well before all of this campaign stuff went down. He spoke out against Lieberman 2 years ago when he decided to run as an independent. So to see him framing the conversation but trying to look at least a little openminded about it is funny as all hell
    .
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zp-heller/only-one-day-left-to-tell_b_144333.html

  • wvng

    Does rayj1 = Lieberman? Sock puppet?
    .
    Just wondering. It is the only explanation I can come up with.
    .
    In the meantime, here’s Glenn:
    .
    “Numerous sources — including this one and this one — are now reporting that the Senate Democratic caucus has reached a deal with Joe Lieberman, and he will retain his Chairmanship of the Homeland Security Committee. The deal will be ratified in a vote tomorrow morning (and will entail his losing a totally meaningless subcommittee chair).
    .
    Nobody who has watched Congressional Democrats over the last many years could possibly have expected any other outcome. This is who they are and what they do. The silver lining is that it will once again remind people, still euphoric over the election results, of this reality.
    .
    And as the anger pours forth from people who raise money for Democrats and expended huge amounts of time and effort to elect Barack Obama, the more vindicated Senate Democrats will feel in what they just did. That’s how they look centrist and bipartisan — by infuriating their supporters, the perceived “Left.” They don’t believe in Sister Souljah moments; they believe in Sister Souljahism as an operating principle, a way of life. ”
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/11/17/emanuel/index.html

  • Aaron

    Joe Lieberman is a hero to warmongers of both parties, apparently. He and John McCain share the same philsophy of neoconservatism, hatred and fear. He pays Marshall Wittmann a paycheck.
    .
    That said, I’m willing to compromise and allow him to keep both subcommittee chairs, even though I think that is a bad idea.

  • wvng

    Aaron – he can have subcommittees. It’s the HS full committee chair that is at issue. He needs to lose it because he did a terrible job at it and because he spent the last four months trashing the Dem candidate, and allowing him to be slandered without protest.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Aaron
    .
    In a compromise two parties get something. So if Lieberman keeps his sub committee chairmanships what are you saying that would gain the Dems?
    .
    Thats the question that nobody can answer that needs to be asked more especially to our Dem leaders

  • Aaron

    wvng,
    .
    I agree 100%; the way to get that result is to stress that the loss of the committee chair is a compromise between that and not allowing Joe Lieberman to caucus with the Democrats at all.
    .
    While he is awful as Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs chair, I find his foreign policy extremism to be dangerous on the Airland Subcommittee as well. (Again, I am willing to compromise because Carl Levin is chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee.)
    .
    My apologies for the confusion.

  • Aaron

    sgwhiteinfla,
    .
    Bear with me for a moment.
    The more senators caucus with the Democrats, the bigger the margin between the parties can be on committees. Let us assume that keeping Joe Lieberman caucusing with the Democrats gains an extra vote margin on each and every committee. Even if he always votes with the Republicans, we still come out ahead on every committee on which he does not sit. For most* domestic policy votes, he will cast votes that favor Democratic bills. Therefore, except for Armed Services and Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, Democrats could gain a vote on every committee. (Also note that Senate Democrats would not lose ground on those two committees; even though Joe Lieberman would take up a Democratic seat, keeping him would add a Democratic seat.)
    .
    Therefore, if having one more Senator allows the Democratic Caucus to gain one more seat on each committee, Joe Lieberman has marginal utility.
    .
    .
    .
    * Harry Reid had better demand loyalty on cloture votes or Joe Lieberman’s domestic liberalism is useless.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Aasron
    .
    My comeback to you is pretty simple. If you already have a majority of votes on each committee which I believe is teh case as it stands what actual good is one more seat? If you can’t give me clear answer as to how that extra vote would help in a meaningful way then again I ask what good is keeping Joe Lieberman

  • Karen Tumulty

    KT here–

    Aaron et al: Pardon me, please, for butting into JNS’s thread, but I’d like to restate that I’d really like see a real filibuster. It’s my dream. I WANT a filibuster:

    http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2007/12/13/the_filibuster_vs_the_pseudofi_1/

  • wvng

    Aaron: “* Harry Reid had better demand loyalty on cloture votes or Joe Lieberman’s domestic liberalism is useless.” But Lieberman has already publicly stated, to Glen Beck no less, that it is dangerous for the Dems to have a filibuster proof majority. Maddow layed the case against Lieberman out in excrutiating detail:

  • wvng

    Hi KT. Agreed. Now if we can get Reid to insist on actual filibusters. But of course he is too much of a gentleman to put the repubs in such an uncomfortable position.
    .
    So where is the Swamplander inauguration party – I’ll bring wine. We just bottled a bunch of elderberry wine. And our WV wineberry wine this year is excellent.

  • Karen Tumulty

    KT here–

    WNNG: there’s a little casual french restaurant around the corner from my office, right across from ford’s theatre, that has a wine bar upstairs. strikes me as the perfect place for the swampland inaugural bash

  • sgwhiteinfla

    KT
    .
    In my humble opinion if Harry Reid was a real leader he would have called their bluff two years ago and forced quite a few filibusters. For one it would have exposed just how strong or weak their caucus is and I for one tend to think that certain Republicans wouldnt support a filabuster. But second of all and maybe most important is this in my mind. Lets say the Republicans successfully filibuster a bill. What happens when Reid pushes more bills to the floor to make them filibuster it. I would almost guarantee you that after that first filibuster effort quite a few of those same Republicans would go to Mitch McConnell and tell him in very crass language that he could go copulate with himself if he thought they would go through that again. Unfortunately Harry Reid doesnt have the nads to go through with it. The only thing I hope is that Obama will put his foot in Reid’s azz and push him to go see the Wizard and get some heart

  • Karen Tumulty

    KT here–

    SG: Thank you! I got all kinds of grief here when I made fun of Harry Reid pulling in the cots for a fake filibuster (I also felt the same way when Bill Frist did it). The hostile comments are not at that link:

    http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2007/07/17/oh_for_heavens_sake/

  • wvng

    Sounds great. I so look forward to being in DC to celebrate my country instead of protesting bad acts.
    .
    Which is not to say we don’t love going for the museums. Or the great restaurants. Or the monuments. Really is a lovely city. Deserves a fine President.

  • Paul-no not that one

    You going to stay up and cover the much lusted after filibuster? If so, stay away from the wine bar.

  • fasteddie9318

    I just let Harry Reid’s office know that the impending cave-in to Lieberman will mark the end of my willingness to donate to Democratic senatorial candidates. This display of complete spinelessness has finally pushed me over to third party status.

  • cfukara

    ” .. there’s strengthening sentiment that taking away his chairmanship might drive him from the Democratic caucus and send the wrong signals as Obama takes office on a pledge to unite the country. ..”
    Gosh.
    No sooner do they get a victory than these Democrats go all out in search of defeat!
    WHo is coming up with these excuses?

    ” .. Lieberman has signaled it would be unacceptable for him to lose his chairmanship.”
    Hark! The master, the Lieber-saboteur, hath spoken.
    Gosh, aren’t these people at homeland security – especially their chairman – supposed to think ahead, as in “pro-active”?
    He strutted around for two years thumbing his nose at the democrats – presumably because he is indispensable! He knew this was coming. Did he simply expect to get away with whining?
    His behavior was callous and UNACCEPTABLE. His behavior now is infantile.
    When did he realize that he needs the Democrats and that actions do have repercussion?

    The USA’s Congress will not come to a standstill because Lieberman is missing. But then, does ‘Benedict’ Lieber-Arnold only do the right thing by the democrats because he is rewarded – with a chairmanship? Don’t the rest of the democrats in Congress know how to drive a hard bargain?
    My opinion: Kick the ungrateful geezer to the curb. Move on. Time a-wasting!

  • cfukara
  • cfukara

    fasteddie9318 Says:
    ” .. the impending cave-in to Lieberman will mark the end of my willingness to donate to Democratic senatorial candidates. ..”

    Better still: Someone will delve deeper and expose the machinations of those who are palling around with, and pushing the cause of, this Lieberman. We want the list of the anti-CHANGE clique.

    Lieberman gave Obamabots sleepless nights as he and his schemers gleefully stabbed and twisted the knife in the back of our flag-bearer – again and again – for two long years.
    Yet he had hoodwinked us into believing that he subscribes to the ideology and ideals shared by the democrats. Can we believe him now? [Once is enough. Twice is - too much.]
    The vigilant denizens of Obamaland want to know who are riding on the Lieber-wagon of good weather friends.

  • http://byjoeybaker.com/blog/2008/11/19/again-time-is-making-good-steps%e2%80%a6/ Again, TIME is making good steps… | byJoeyBaker

    [...] -Swampland – TIME.com [...]

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