The GOP’s Big Hispanic Problem

Perhaps, MS, you would like to discuss the GOP’s even bigger Black American problem?
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“the Republican Party may find itself forced to choose between its conservative base and its future as a national party.”

GOP, please please please pick your base over being a national party. i would love to be able to see the Republican Party completely disintegrate during my lifetime.

MS, surely you might care to comment on that really, really, really large elephant stinding behind your right shoulder while you pontificate on a hispanic problem?
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I think that 96% to 4% is a wee bit more disconcerting than a 60% to 40% split in the hispanic vote.
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Either you don’t care (reflecting ignorance), or you actually think the Black community is 96% libera (also reflecting ignorance).
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Choose yer weapon…

The GOP won’t get the Latino vote back because the only reason they had it to begin with is because most Latinos never saw the racisim from the Republican party until the immigration issue came up. It was ok as long as Rush was making jokes about and spewing venom at black folks. But when he turned his ire at illegal immigrants and in the same kinds of vile venemous terms and nobody called him on it and instead the vast majority of the Republican party embraced guys like Rush and Lou Dobbs then the hispanics had an epiphany. The truth now isnt whether the GOP can get them back because I think thats an impossibility. The truth now is if they can save any of the small majority that they garnered in tis election cycle. Mel Martinez himself better be careful in his next election because he might have lost some votes for stumping with McCain. The saddest part is most of these so called conservative think tanks are now saying that McCain didnt lose because he was too conservative, but instead lost because he wasn’t conservative enough. In their infinite wisdom they actually thought he should have been hitting Obama on immigration. They seriously just don’t have a clue anymore. What might crush them though is if they actually put Michael Steele up for the chair of the RNC which many people are buzzing about and then he doesnt get it. Thats going to look very bad considering they are trying to use Steele as a poster child to say that black folks have a place in the Republican party. I can’t wait to see how THAT turns out.

What Prop 181 did for the republican party in California the immigration “debate” did for the republicans nationaly.
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This was a nice touch MS-”With immigration reform likely to return to the table again next year, the Republican Party may find itself forced to choose between its conservative base and its future as a national party.”
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Not even a passing nod to the idea that the republicans have a core belief. Just a purely political calculation. I think you are right.

(repost to beat the mods)
What Prop 181 did for the republican party in California the immigration “debate” did for the republicans nationaly.
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This was a nice touch MS-”With immigration reform likely to return to the table again next year, the Republican Party may find itself forced to choose between its conservative base and its future as a national party.”
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Not even a pa$$ing nod to the idea that the republicans have a core belief. Just a purely political calculation. I think you are right.

Republicans need to muzzle the racists on talk radio. But that’s not happening anytime soon.
¡Bienvenidos al Partido Demócrata, hermanos!

Well, 53_3, you’re absolutely right that that is something worth talking about, but in fairness to MS, the GOP had hoped to peel off a large number of Hispanic voters.
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Interesting post, MS. Data and perspectives– good stuff!
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I think that the GOP turned off _everybody_ with its know-nothingism, disproportionately minorities. Because the party has been so atrocious of late, all they have to do is lurch toward sanity to ameliorate their problems. Unfortunately, they’re promoting Cantors and their ilk. A national party no more, a white party once again.

I don’t know you guys. I just think it’s an ingrown GOP thing right now.
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Their hands are too shaky to draw that line from point A to point B. You know, connect the dots.
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It’s even simpler than checkers…

shoulda been small MINORITY
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not having preview sux

> Republicans need to muzzle the racists on talk radio.
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If they wanted to survive, yes. But not all of us want them to survive, as an entity. Let the intolerant, racists b@stards wither and die.

In the spirit of cooperation, I’m going to throw out a rough strategic sketch for how the GOP can get its groove back:

(1) Stop being vile, abhorrent d0uchebags that infect everything they touch with a rotting disease.

(2) Profit.

Who is the go to republican for MSNBC? Pat Buchannan. And that man drips with hatred for Hispanics. And Pat speaks for a lot of that party.

I think that the very divisive rhetoric of the immigration debate set a very bad tone for our brand as Republicans

The funny thing is that John McCain had a clear choice going into his campaign. The number of people you can woo with hate is limited. They may be vocal but they don’t speak for most Americans.

The only downside, is that as inevitable demographic shifts continue, the folks who embrace xenophobia are going to feel more marginalzed and hence more vocal. They’re going to end up being forced from influence by sheer embarasment.

The trick that Dean/Obama pulled off in the election was to appeal to blacks and hispanics in a style markedly different from old-school Democratic interest group politics. He got ‘em with pragmatism instead of activism. I think that was a function of the election being a firing of Bush, however, and I doubt it can be sustained over time when the Administration will have to vote up or down on a series of issues. The McCain couldn’t label and define Obama, but over time events will.

PNNTO I seriously don’t get how Pat Buchannan has become this great pundit for MSNBC. It was only because Tweety loves the guy that he stopped him from totally throwing away his miraculous career about a week ago when Pat was about to double down on the “Colin Powell endorsed Obama because he is black” meme. And true to form he looked genuinely dissappointed that Tweety didnt allow him to jump all the way off that clip. By the way by happenstance I found a few “the young turk” clips today about times that rachel maddow PWNED Joe Scarborough and since I know some folks hate Joe just as much as I do I figured I would share.
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enjoy
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I don’t have the link, but didn’t JC Watts just write that the bigger problem is what’s still left in the GOP — older white guys?

Elvis:
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Yes, in a sense you are right, but when you get down to it, like sg said, the common denominator is bigotry – a big sell in the GOP.
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It’s a wonder to me that nearly all minotities don’t abandon the GOP, but as they say, silence is golden.
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For the GOP that is…

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Buchannon has a long, loooong history with the old “Patriot Movement”, Neo-Nazis and other sordid groups in the old days. One of the things Buchannon was known for was giving the Nazi salute to Bo Greitz at a checkpoint surrounding Ruby Ridge.
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He’s one I would definatly say needs to go…

This is just an aspect of a bigger rift between the business/hawk wing of the GOP and the know-nothing Christianist wing.
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The business and hawk factions can always get along, because the defense industry is big business and the military is employed (in part) to promote a favorable business climate (eg to keep the oil flowing).
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So the problem with this formulation: choose between its conservative base and its future as a national party is that you need to define what you mean by conservative. There is not just one base in the GOP. Which faction is the conservative one? I would argue that the Christianist wing is extremist or reactionary, not conservative.

Throughout the campaign season, we heard many spins – about how Obama couldn’t win without the evangelical vote. Not without the majority of the white vote. Not without the Florida’s Jewish vote – and not without subjugating our USA sovereignty to – and deferring decisions that intimately affect our critical foreign and national security interests to, the whims and intransigence a foreign power, Israel.

Guess what: The poll results are out and the exit polls tell a different story:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/elections/national/Young_voters_not_essential_to_Obama_win.html

Obama did not get a majority of the white vote. But he got a majority of the youth vote of the 18 to 30 year olds. And even without the youth vote, Obama would have won anyway. [And those contemplating running for the presidency of our USA in the future may as well note that the hard-working, very hard-working Americans, white Americans (like those American_Indian_native-hating hillbillies of Pennsylvania, Alabama and Alaska) will be a minority in a few generations.]

Obama could have won without the conservative evangelicals – and he did.
[I doubt that Obama got the vote of the Rev Rick Warren and followers of the Saddleback Church of southern California. And that is OK with Americans.]

Neither Obama nor Clinton could have won without a majority of the black vote.

In fact, Obama could have won without a single Jewish vote – anywhere. Something for future presidential candidates to remember as they pander to the demographic. [And certainly when beleaguered, newly poor American citizens want to know why American tax-payers must pay EACH citizen of the foreign country of Israel (but not our starving 30 million kids) as much as US$2,000 EVERY year.]

As we debate this issue here is a post from today over there on bastion of conservatism website national review’s the Corner. I am telling you that they are going to make their relationship with hispanics WORSE due to this loss instead of better
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http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Nzc0OWRhY2RkMDNjYmExYTExNjhiOTUyZGYxYmI5NTY=

I think this article is not broad enough. The GOP has managed to drive away Hispanics, Blacks, woman and in this election the working class. How exactly do the Republicans suppose they will continue to survive as a national party unless they broaden themselves? Yes they can continue to suck up after the religious right and doom themselves as being a merely regional party in the processes. Or they can go and re-examin their party platform and start broadening their appeal. I still remember the Republican Convention, old, religious and white. The path to the White House is not paved via that dying demographic.

I always looked at conservatism as somewhat like this:
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1. Smaller government
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2. Lower taxes
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3. Pro-Business
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4. Tradition-oreinted (but being smart enough to avoid the continuation of what is rather dimly euphemized as “nativism”.
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I honestly think that MS and others hould take up the issue of separating hatred from conservatism.
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And that is the core of the problem here.

It’s the economy stupid, not just illegal immigration.
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Construction, leisure services, and certain aspects of manufacturing were obliterated along with the economy. Hispanics were also big victims of subprime/credit card schemes, with the likes of BoA pimping outrageous loans for quinceañeras. They lost homes too.
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The Republicans blew the dialogue on undocumented workers, but the idea that Hispanics are a mindless Borg reacting solely to immigration issues is ignorant, maybe even closet-racist.

Looking at this from the other direction, who is the most influential pro Hispanic person in the republican party?
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McCain? No muscle left, and pretty disliked to start with.
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Bush? No one in listens to him anymore.
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I can’t think of anyone besides those two.

I think that the pro-business and bigotry driven bases collided in this one.
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They’re still untangling that mess.

sg, The Corner will NEVER give up the fight. They love playing the victim card too much after they are called racist.

PNNTO
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It is Jeb Bush without question. Dont forget that his wife is hispanic and he speaks fluent spanish. If he hand not stupidly gotten involved with the Terri Schiavo situation here in Tampa I think he would have been the Republican nominee in 2012. I don’t think he wants to go for the presidency at this point though. But he had HUGE support among hispanics and latinos here in florida

Olè.

To return to my first contention, the problem with the Hispanic vote is a subset of a larger prolem. To wit:
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1. The shift in voting for Hispanics is around 3 million voters.
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2. I think it is safe to say that the Black electorate is comprised of about 30 – 40% conservative voters but who won’t vote GOP because of their history since 1970 (keeping it traditionally between 7 – 13%) and the recent conduct during this last election (pushing those numbers below 4%).
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3. The benefit of understanding this would net the GOP between 6 and 8 million voters – a fact that people like MS relentlessly ignore!

WWLDD?
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As long as Hannity, Rush, and especially Lou Dobbs draw breath, the Republicans will never win over the non-Cuban Hispanic vote. Moreso the latter two than the former; though I’m sure Hannity has it in him to be that myopic and pas5ive-aggressively racist.
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The struggle within the GOP isn’t just defining a core belief; its being able to adapt and change while being totally hamstrung by its most vocal and effective loudspeakers.
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If there is some good news, however, its that these guys are no strangers to being bold hypocrites when it suits them. (For example: Jamie-Lynn Spears’ pregnancy is shameful to her and is a failure of her parents; Bristol Palin’s pregnancy is a testimony to her strong moral upbringing and a courageous decision) That plus the millions of dollars of ad money and the growing demographic may provide enough impetus–never underestimate the power of greed.

sg, being out of office and with that last name is Jeb the most ” influential” pro Hispanic republican? I’m not disagreeing but that really says something about the republicans.
The single genuinely decent thing about Bush, to me, was his sincerity on immigration. His party would have none of it.

sg:
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Do you think that there was an “Elian Gonzalaz” effect there too, that eventually wore off?

sgw–Jeb might have been presidential material, if not for his brother.
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America will NOT elect another bush for at least another decade. Flirting with an 80% disapproval rating and having arguably the worst presidential administration in over a century doesn’t help ingratiate the fam with the electorate.

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53_3 “I think it is safe to say that the Black electorate is comprised of about 30 – 40% conservative voters”
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Conservative how?

The single genuinely decent thing about Bush, to me, was his sincerity on immigration.

Or a massive red flag indicating Big Businesses’ desires to keep the highly profitable Hispanic slave labor trade going, whether or not TEH BASE agrees.

If Bush was such a wonderful fellow, he’d, for example, give legal immigrants suffering under the unfair H1-B visa amnesty along with those illegally here. But alas, he is not.

@Paul Bush’s immigration policy was, generally, one of the (only) two things I admired about him. The other has been his approach to the HIV epidemic in Africa. As a humanitarian (there… and ONLY there) Bush has done some absolutely amazing things. I think he deserves props for that, just like he deserves all the stuff that’s thrown at him for everything else

PNNTO
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Dont forget that most folks thought Jeb would be the one running for president. Or should I say most folks thought that Jebe SHOULD have been the one running for office. He ran a tight ship down here especially when we were facing hurricanes. I hate to put it in these terms but him marrying a hispanic woman and having a mixed family was also part of his appeal. As soon as the election was over on tuesday I started hearing his name pop up in the conversations about rebuilding the brand. The problem of course is where as with McCain you had to try your best to link him to Bush’s policies, you wouldnt have to try very hard to tie Jeb to his brother. But he still maintains quite a bit of prestige and power behind the scenes and I hear he is a GREAT fundraiser. But like you said it does say a lot about the state of the GOP. Now Mel Martinez has strong hispanic support but thats for obvious reasons.
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53_3
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The Elian Gonzalaz thing wore off long ago. Even though it SEEMED like it divided a lot of people, from my observation it wasnt as big of a deal as it was made out to be. Last I heard Elian was doing well in Cuba by the way

Elections are dynamic, not static. Eight years from now, the economy could be booming and the immigration situation stabilized. The issues of the day could be abortion and education. A Catholic pro-life, and pro-voucher hispanic electorate could return to the GOP in Reagan or greater numbers. Things change. Realignments realign.

[...] Scherer has a post at the Time blog about the GOP’s Hispanic problem.  But the truth is that the problem for the GOP isn’t limited to Hispanics, it covers the [...]

deathbypapers,
Good point about the work and funding to Africa for HIV.
I could understand Bush’s “sensitivity” to immigration because of his time in Texas but I never could figure out why he cared about HIV in Africa.

PNNTO
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Many black people are social coservatives who are pro life and have strict religious principles. More than you think are also fiscal conservatives as well. But a lot of those people just don’t think the Republican party is the right place for them. My dad is about as conservative as you can be but you better not EVER call him a Republican. Fisticuffs are sure to ensue!

PNNTO:
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There are many Black voters who believe one or more of the GOP planks, but don’t agree with how to implement them. Very big in the Black community is self reliance, responsibility, and good parenting. The Million Man march is a hint, and the 70-30 split for prop 8 is another one.
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I don’t agree with that, and I think it is shortsighted, but it is a good, and the result, though I didn’t anticipate it, is not a surprise to me. In addition Christianity drives some of this, too. There are many who hold strong conservative Christian values (the previous was an example of it).
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The spectrum of Black voters is really astonishing, once one delves much more deeply into the Black community.
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State’s rights is a good example of misaapplied conservatism. Obviously, this is the “kitchen knife on the table” after the murder. This has been used as a surrogate for smaller government, but the problems with this is the legal structure. A federal law should be supreior to a state law which is superior to a local law. Right now, that’s not the way we are legally constructed, and had that been the real legal framework, Jim Crow laws would have been struck down every time they were passed.

The other has been his approach to the HIV epidemic in Africa. As a humanitarian (there… and ONLY there) Bush has done some absolutely amazing things. I think he deserves props for that, just like he deserves all the stuff that’s thrown at him for everything else.
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Heh, it’s amazing how the slightest whiff of progressivism and charity gets some of you to fall for even Bush’s shenanigans.
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http://www.counterpunch.org/mokhiber07112003.html
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Let’s not mention either Bush’s scheme to create a market for frankenfoods in Africa, disguised as “food aid”.
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“More than you think are also fiscal conservatives as well But a lot of those people just don’t think the Republican party is the right place for them”
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I’d be hard pressed to find a fiscal conservative in todays the republican party.

pourme
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Thats true but somethings arent so easily forgotten and when you have right wingers spewing a constant stream of venom at hispanics under the guise of being upset about immigration laws those words are going to stick for quite a while. See its not just the hisbpanics that are in this country illegal that get affected by those crass words. Its also the people of hispanic heritage who were born and raised in this country but still get dirty looks in their direction because of the atmosphere that has been created by wing nut radio. I just don’t see the trend changing anytimme soon UNLESS the Dems nominate an azzhole who does the same thing. I would hope we wouldnt be that stupid ever

Damm! Can’t say ‘pa$$3ed’!
PNNTO:
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There are many Black voters who believe one or more of the GOP planks, but don’t agree with how to implement them. Very big in the Black community is self reliance, responsibility, and good parenting. The Million Man march is a hint, and the 70-30 split for prop 8 is another one.
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I don’t agree with that, and I think it is shortsighted, but it is a good, and the result, though I didn’t anticipate it, is not a surprise to me. In addition Christianity drives some of this, too. There are many who hold strong conservative Christian values (the previous was an example of it).
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The spectrum of Black voters is really astonishing, once one delves much more deeply into the Black community.
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State’s rights is a good example of misaapplied conservatism. Obviously, this is the “kitchen knife on the table” after the murder. This has been used as a surrogate for smaller government, but the problems with this is the legal structure. A federal law should be supreior to a state law which is superior to a local law. Right now, that’s not the way we are legally constructed, and had that been the real legal framework, Jim Crow laws would have been struck down every time they were pa$$ed.

“I never could figure out why he cared about HIV in Africa.”
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Asked and answered, thanks vm.

Michael Scherer asserts: “With immigration reform likely to return to the table again next year, the Republican Party may find itself forced to choose between its conservative base and its future as a national party.”

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Got it. The Republicans should always follow the advice of Michael Scherer and Time magazine and legalize 30 million illegal aliens and then give those illegal aliens citizenship. Like all of the fraudulent votes cast by ObamAcorn, all of those illegal aliens are certain to vote for Republicans.

PNNTO:
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I tried to publish earlier, but the moderater ate my comments. It’s amazing how innocuous you can get and still be azzed by this bot.
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“I’d be hard pressed to find a fiscal conservative in todays the republican party.”
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I think that the ‘lower taxes’ plank collided with the urge to use the IRS as a means to buy votes, an even stronger urge!

If the GOP could have ever gotten past their flagrant bigotry or at least been better at hiding it they might have had a chance because the more socially conservative, religious African Americans could respond to some of their tenets. But the GOP has never been able to get pass their bigotry and very few blacks were willing to overlook it and become part of the party. But there has always been the Booker T Washington wing of the black electorate and black conservatism is not new.

If the GOP could have ever gotten past their flagrant bigotry or at least been better at hiding it they might have had a chance because the more socially conservative, religious African Americans could respond to some of their tenets. But the GOP has never been able to get p@ss their bigotry and very few blacks were willing to overlook it and become part of the party. But there has always been the Booker T Washington wing of the black electorate and black conservatism is not new.

Thanks 53_3.
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I will step out for a smoke and ponder. I am wondering if all the characteristics you listed ( self reliance, responsibility, and good parenting,many who hold strong conservative Christian values ) wouldn’t apply to the population at large.
Of course the larger population has run from the GOP too but not in the steady decades long way that the AA have.

sg, PNNTO:
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It really does point to the problem I’ve complained about for a long time:
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They’ve spent so much time and effort trying to sway ignorant white voters to their side that they fell into believing their own urban myths. Here are a few, besides the one we just touched on:
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Blacks want “40 Acres and a Mule”:
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This one is one of the funniest, as in the Black community, that phrase is a eupemism for broken promises. Wanting 40 acres and a mule is like saying don’t break your promise, and not wanting a handout, as they would like you to believe!
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Blacks want Affirmative Action to return:
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Most Black Americans realize that those days are waning, but in truth, it was the single most important program in place to ensure a leveling of the employment and education playing fields. They recognize that fact, but they also are split as to whether it should be continued. Opinions run the gamut from abolishing it entirely to reimposing it. And believe me, right now, the ones who see it as divisive are quite large in proportion.

Hahahaahahaha
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Hidden from whom? Frickin’ Rove was worried about this in 05. Publicly. The whole immigration fiasco, that started the fracturing of the party between the know-nothings and the hogs in the trough, was played out in the election run up. They couldn’t get the brownskinned conservative Catholics and also keep the racists.
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The guy who got the nomination repudiated the brownskinned conservative catholics for the racists. And the apparent winners for the leadership of the party are the know-nothings.
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I’d laugh again, but the tragedy of the last eight years doesn’t really leave room.

Very true, PNNTO, I don’t smoke, so I can’t step out with you, but you are looking at the dirty ditch the GOP dug for the past 30 years around the Black community. Some of those beliefs have made it so far into the mainstream that they havn’t yet been detected as falsehoods.
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And I want MS and other GOPers to look into that ditch, too…

Dee:
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Exposing that has been my single most important focus in the two years I’ve been posting here at the Swamp.
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I know there are some would wish I would shut up, but the depth and breadth of misinformation is instructive.

“Something for future presidential candidates to remember as they pander to the demographic. “
That is, as long as there is a limit to campaign contributions from an individual as well as limited to access from lobbyists. With the limits in place, the people-driven Obama campaign reigned and Obama was – and hopefully will be – under no pressure to pander to individuals, PACs and foreign governments.

53_3 It’s truly amazing how misunderstood the black electorate really is. too many pundits and political operatives focus on the percentage of AA that vote Democrat and think that tells them the entire story. Of course, they usually tend to neglect the up and down of turnout which is a stand in for party switching. When AA are disagree with Democrats, race prevents them from going to the GOP so they stay at home rather than vote for issues they don’t agree with. It should not have been a surprise that blacks supported Prop 8, and if anyone was paying attention they would also know that it had nothing to do with hating same gender couples.

Dee it’s true that has been 53_3′s focus, not singularly I hasten to add, and it has cost me money!

Who knew that Jesus was for abortion on demand?

cfukara:
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I might, just as yet another example of what I’ve been taling about, that the word ‘pandering’ is a negative way of saying ‘addressing the issues of’.

It’s insane when you dig into this, just how deep that this stuff runs. I’ve been around the Black community and have, after years of contact, gained pretty good insights into this.
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I really do want to see people like MS and other GOPers to see what this is really all about, since the tendrils of this disinformative campaigning (“Southern Strategy” aka the “Angry White Male” in the ’80s) wind so deep into the psyche of white America that they are very difficult to root out without giving offense!

PNNTO:
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“Dee it’s true that has been 53_3′s focus, not singularly I hasten to add, and it has cost me money!”
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At least your sacrifice won’t go unnoticed by the beneficiaries.
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And that is one hel! hole of a lot more than I can say for any of these GOPers – with the exception of Joe Klein!

@Vicious_maniac and Paul,
I’d be a little hesitant to dismiss the Africa work that quickly. My gf spent last year working in Africa and still works for some organizations there and she (one of the most liberal/Bush bashers I know) repeatedly tells me how impressed she is with the effort there. It’s always easy to vilify/deify people and we always get on the right for that/laugh at other countries (Bush is bad but he’s not “the Great Satan”). I’d say that regardless of motivations (tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists or not) its important to remember the good as well as the (incredible amount of) bad. We can’t just say, “Don’t be this guy,” as those “un-real” thinking Americans we should be able to have a bit more of a nuanced view.

Sheesh, every time I hear talk of a ‘profound ideological shift by the American people’, I get this sinking feeling. There’s no more a ‘permanent Democratic majority’ now than there was a ‘permanent Republican majority’ four years ago. People are pragmatic and they’re self-interested. And – for all the discussions focussed around policies – simple imagery probably has more power to define.
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You look at this year’s Republican convention and you see an unremitting sea of white faces. You look at the rallies on TV – that ‘energized base’ is unfailingly white. Schnorer is looking at this from the wrong end. The Republicans don’t have a Hispanic problem. They have a white problem.

F— people, we just had the best rejection of ID politics this country has ever seen, and you’re still lost in the miasma of race. Let the GOP be ID party that it’s become. The democrats are and should be colorblind–let Scherer, the F-wit that he is, pen this crap ad nauseum–”OBAMA’S JEWISH PROBLEM” “MAC’S BLACK PROBLEM”–it’s all utter BS and rot. Talk about the f’ing issues. Rose just wrote in another thread about how blacks blew it for gays in CA. Spare me this crap.

deathbypapers:
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Actually, that much is true. I noticed in one of the online polls was one where various countries got to “vote” for their candidate.
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All four, with the exception of Israel, were in Africa, and after having thought about that, I remembered that Bush did indeed have a stron HIV/AIDS program there.
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Nonwithstanding, let’s not forget paralell efforts, non-faith based, that were promoted by Bill Clinton and Bill Gates…

I am having a nuanced view, deathbypapers. The easy view (frankly, the spin, peddled by the MSM) says that Bush was a saint to Africa’s AIDS crisis, and leave it at that.

The nuanced view is to call into question some of his underhandedness during his programs, such as why did Bush bypass the Global Fund and essentially make it a redundant competitor, instead setting up direct trade/aid deals with the continent? It wouldn’t be so that he’d have the option to cut funding for condoms, which he did, appeasing Christian evangelicals? It wouldn’t be so that he’d have the ability to block generic drugs from the continent, appeasing Big Pharma?
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Thanks for the tin foil hat crack, though. Where have I heard that before? Perhaps not from the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/aug/30/usa.aids Oh yeah, I heard it from the same guys insisting the WMDs were real.

I am having a nuanced view, deathbypapers. The easy view (frankly, the spin, peddled by the MSM) says that Bush was a saint to Africa’s AIDS crisis, and leave it at that.

The nuanced view is to call into question some of his underhandedness during his programs, such as why did Bush byp@ss the Global Fund and essentially make it a redundant competitor, instead setting up direct trade/aid deals with the continent? It wouldn’t be so that he’d have the option to cut funding for condoms, which he did, appeasing Christian evangelicals? It wouldn’t be so that he’d have the ability to block generic drugs from the continent, appeasing Big Pharma?
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Thanks for the tin foil hat crack, though. Where have I heard that before? Perhaps not from the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/aug/30/usa.aids Oh yeah, I heard it from the same guys insisting the WMDs were real.

Maybe one reason why Hispanics defected has to do with Obama’s categorically unfair attack ads linking something that Limbaugh (never a McCain lover) said about Hispanics to McCain.

By the way, Bush obviously cares about people in Africa and has done a pretty good job helping them, as many would agree, despite problems with blocking condoms as noted by viciousmaniac. See:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1717934,00.html

Also, Slowhand Ted, I don’t think it’s a good idea to try determine which party is more friendly to minorities by looking at convention attendees (sorry if that isn’t what you meant). If the GOP had carefully arranged a diverse group of ethnicities before the cameras, I’m sure many would think that was staged.

I did end up seeing black Republicans at the convention – via Daily Show coverage.

I thought we saw the Republican’s A-game with Tito the Builder. Maybe they’ll up the ante next time by making him Palin’s running mate.

53_3 Says:
” ..that the word ‘pandering’ is a negative way of saying ‘addressing the issues of’.”
“negative” is in the eyes of the beholder.

Like, Hitler would say that “holocaust” is a negative way of looking at what he was up to. And our forefathers would hesitate to use the terms “holocaust” or “slave trade” with regard to “cheap or free labour inputs”, “pure capitalism”, or “manifest destiny”.
Hey, why not say “Southern Strategy” instead of “racist GOP”?
We hear about ‘targeted innocent women and kids’ being referred to as “suspected terrorists” or “suspected Islamists”.
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And the ‘dead innocent people’ as “collateral damage”.
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In the 60s, “mass slaughter of villagers” was considered a negative way of saying “sanitizing a village” in Vietnam. It couldn’t have been all that bad: The necks of the culprits involved were never at risk like those of Hitler and his henchmen and guards. And neither were the necks at risk for those involved in the atrocities at Abu Ghraib, Baquba, Guantanamo, Sabra and Shatila…

“addressing the issues of”?
Unlike MOST Americans, the prime issue that pre-occupy the Jewish ‘faith’/demographic – which is less than 2% of our population – is that which affects the foreign state of Israel. Why should we, the bitter Americans, predicate the election of the president of our sovereign USA on the degree to which the candidate can pander and grovel to the interests and whims of a foreign sovereign?
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Have you ever listened to Henry Kissinger address a Jewish group?
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The African-American population accounts for about 13%. The Latino-Americans population is over 15%. Yet our presidential candidates do not go out of their way to pander to the interests of African or South American countries.
[In fact if African-Americans talk about fostering a closer bond with Africa or lobby for increased grants, closer co-operation and freer movement of people between Africa and the USA they are more likely to be accused of being un-American or lacking in patriotism or even told to renounce their citizenship and emigrate to those foreign countries - as if THAT is a punishment. Can we apply similar admonition to the Jewish demographic and its agitation on behalf of Israel?]

[...] may find itself forced to choose between its conservative base and its future as a national party. http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/10/the-gops-big-hispanic-problem/?xid=rss-topstoriesLou Dobbs is a Pandering Moron! Global Investment WatchWhy am I attacking this lovable guy, you ask? [...]

Thing is, the immigration deal Republicans could have gotten in 2005 is better than the deal they will get in 2009 or whenever. The bill that comes out of the Dem-dominated committees will be (probably by design) impossible for most Republicans to vote for. So expect this problem to get worse for Republicans, especially in swingy border states/districts, before it gets better.

cfukara:
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When the GOP uses the word ‘pander’ in realation to the Black community, it is always negative.
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Also,
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pander
–noun Also, pan⋅der⋅er.
1. a person who furnishes clients for a prostitute or supplies persons for illicit sexual intercourse; procurer; pimp.
2. a person who caters to or profits from the weaknesses or vices of others.
3. a go-between in amorous intrigues.
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–verb (used without object)
4. to act as a pander; cater basely: to pander to the vile tastes of vulgar persons.
–verb (used with object)
5. to act as a pander for.
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This is from Dictionary.com
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I think I can comforatbly rest my case here.

[...] Swampland – The GOP’s Big Hispanic Problem "I think that the very divisive rhetoric of the immigration debate set a very bad tone for our brand as Republicans. The fact of the matter is that Hispanics are going to be a more and more vibrant part of the electorate, and the Republican Party had better figure out how to talk to them." Hopefully with something a little smarter than "Get out of our country!" (tags: immigration politics republican) [...]

[...] may find itself forced to choose between its conservative base and its future as a national party. http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/10/the-gops-big-hispanic-problem/?xid=rss-topstoriesDigg – Republicans have Good Reason to like ObamaJan C. Ting is a Temple University law professor [...]

[...] Ditch the anti-immigrant rhetoric. Why? Look at the Hispanic vote in four states that went to the Democrats this year: Colorado, Nevada, Florida, and New [...]

[...] a swing vote in recent presidential contests. As former Sen. Mel Martinez, R-Fla., put it late last year on Meet the Press: The fact of the matter is that Hispanics are going to be a more and more [...]

[...] laws – like the new measure in Arizona – continues to drive Latino voters away from the GOP [...]

[...] to hurt the Republican Party.” In fact, it already has. In 2008, Latinos basically “jumped ship” and overwhelmingly supported Democrats shortly following the highly polarized immigration [...]

[...] Latino Influence is Holding Parties Accountable Posted on October 21, 2010 by Sylvia Manzano Whether Latino voter turnout is high or low, their influence will register in the 2010 midterms because this time, attention is squarely focused on whether they vote, rather than for whom they vote. It is all but a foregone conclusion that the vast majority of Latino voters will support Democrats. After years of escalating and egregious political scapegoating, few Latinos consider the GOP a viable option. Sharp evidence of this very point emerged in Nevada where Republican operatives launched a campaign encouraging Latinos not to vote. Republican strategists decided they would rather invest $80,000 to suppress Latino votes instead of winning them. Tens of thousands of dollars spent to make sure Spanish speaking Latinos (Univision audience) especially see the “keep out” sign and know their votes are not wanted. Interestingly, the “Latinos Don’t Vote” effort surfaced despite well-reported predictions for depressed Latino turnout rates relative to November 2008. Republicans and Democrats have a stake in Latino participatory decisions; their influence can manifest in various ways and is now a permanent part of the electoral environment. As others here have noted the Latino electorate is best poised to defy low expectations in competitive races, some including co-ethnics are on the ballot. This election cycle presents a unique opportunity for the Latino electorate to hold parties accountable for responsiveness, inaction or antipathy to group-specific issues and priorities. During the 2008 election season, Democrats courted Latino voters with specific commitments on immigration reform legislation. Republicans also made an issue of immigration, but did so in a manner that repelled the Latino electorate. [...]