Lieberman

I think they should strip him of everything but seniority and then leave caucusing up to him. Supposedly the Republicans are trying to get him to cross party lines but I wonder how they will feel if he does so then speaks against their social platforms. Lieberman needs to pay not just for the speech at the RNC but for the fact that he started parroting the Socialist/Marxist meme AND he said that Obama puts himself before the country. And I would hope that they would do it publically and not behind closed doors not only to punish him but to deter others from similar actions.

But cutting him off would likely mean that he’d choose not to run again. Were he forced to remain completely independent (no caucus), or caucus with the Republicans, he would almost certainly face an embarrassing defeat should he choose to run again.

His favorable/unfavorable numbers in CT are already in the toilet. I understand the value in allowing him to continue to caucus with the Democrats, but I would also love to force a retirement decision on him by not doing him any favors.

Joe was a traitor to his party long before the latest election season. It’s a shame that practical considerations prevented him from getting his due months ago.

As I’ve noted in previous entries, I think the actual Senate Dems will be far more even-handed with Holy Joe than the bulk of the party.
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The simple fact of the matter is that they need every vote they can get for cloture. Unless/until the republicans relent, the tone coming from them is still recalcitrant and obstructionist. I hope and pray that they are more reasonable now with a 3-4 vote margin than they were when they had a 10 vote margin, but we’ll see.
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Really, in these last two years of Lieberman’s senate career, he should be considering his legacy–unless he does some drastic and impressive tap dancing he has a whelk’s chance in a supernova of being re-elected.

What sgw said.
Who had the LBJ quote involving tent occupation yesterday? I’ll let you bring it back out and get the credit.

Joe Lieberman should caucus with the ‘Connecticut for Lieberman’ party. He should also be stripped of his chairmanships. If Lieberman’s new buddies, the republicans, want him to represent them on committees, that’s their choice.
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If Lieberman wants to vote with the Democrats (that he stabbed in the back), he may.

sgwhite:
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The difficulty here is that Obama really means what he says. So I think he’s inclined to be generous, just as Joe Klein is. Put another way, why would we want to “punish” Joe, but welcome McCain back into the Senate’s good graces? That would be the victor’s prerogative of course, but I don’t think Obama’s going to behave like a typical victor. He didn’t Tuesday night, and to the extent he has a say, he won’t with the legislative branch, either.
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This may hinge on how much Reid et al. agree with Obama though. I’d strip him of his chairmanship, let him retain seniority. The question about caucusing with Democrats is whether he’ll be a mole who will blab to the Republicans. In the long run that may hurt relations between the parties. This is his last chance to redeem his political career; the citizens of Connecticut will be the ultimate enforcers.
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I’m thoroughly convinced that Obama has no intention of doing to the Republicans what Republicans have done to Democrats. And if he does not, he’ll cement his popularity with the majority in this country.
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I decided early on that if I supported Obama I was going to have to give up my zeal for payback. Until that moment I’d been ravenous for a piece of Republican flesh.

G0d d4mn it to h3ll, Joe, when are there going to be consequences for people’s actions? How can we expect any sort of accountability in our government when those who betray their constituents get a mere slap on the wrist and a stern warning?

Cliff – the consequences are that they don’t get their agenda enacted. This is about governance.

My God, Joe, are you weakening? Are you gonna forgive McCain after all just because you feel sorry for him? If so, I’m disappointed.
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It’s not vindictiveness to discover that someone who presented himself as honorable threw out his principles and reached for the gutter. McCain cannot be forgiven, if only because he has foisted Palin upon us. And Lieberman was right in the gutter with him.
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Sorry, not forgiven and not forgotten.

It is not being vindictive. It is simply a matter of rewarding the other able Democratic Senators who would do a better job than Joe in manning the Homeland Security Comm.

Remember — this is the guy who backed off an investigation into Katrina at the Bush White House’s insistence. It is a not insignificant post. And he has shown himself unfit for command.

And phidda – agreed. It’s not vindictive to strip Lieberman of his chairmanship.

Kathy
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Obama also said he would talk to our enemies. But don’t for a minute think that means he won’t put his foot in their azzes! Joe Lieberman will have his commmittees stripped because those are priviledges not rights. They should go to someone in the party who is LOYAL to the party and not to somebody who would sell his soul just to try to get his friend elected. Bringing a new form of politics to Washington does not mean being a fool and letting someone who called you dangerous, a socialist, and someone who puts himself before his country continue to head up important committees. To me it would show a profound weakness in the Democratic party if they allowed Joe Lieberman who is not even a Democrat anymore continue to stay in his leadership roles. As someone else said if the Republicans want to make him a minority leader then let them do that. I wouldn’t hold my breath though

McCain, Lieberman and Graham should caucus amongst themselves.

Lieberman left the Democratic party in order to stay in power. He then made a conscious to support the Republican candidate, demonize the Democratic candidate, and lobbied to be the Vice Presidental nominee for the Republicans. Those were his choices, and now he’s trying to weasel out of the consequences. Of course he should lose seniority, and his chairmanship. Allowing him to continue to caucus with the Democrats is as much “grace” as he deserve.

OT – Hey, isn’t it time to take McCain’s picture down from the Swampland topline?

Klein, I thought you specifically said multiple times that you couldn’t forgive John McCain? Now you’d give him the benefit of the doubt, and a honeymoon? Huh?

Forget Joe Lieberman. There are consequences to the stands we take. He wasn’t being shy about what he was doing, he was being brazen, and participating in some of the worst smears. What is it teaching anyone if we pat Joe Lieberman on the back and say no hard feelings? How will he behave next time?

Thus begins the rapid descent back to “Joe Klein the Idiot”?

If Obama is plotting, with his new centrist friends, to throw those who brought him, under the bus, Klein’s scalp is a cheap way to throw the Left a bone.

He should be booted out of the party for his treachery.

I said Klein but I meant Lieberman above.

Cliff – the consequences are that they don’t get their agenda enacted. This is about governance.

The only parts of Obama’s agenda that I really care about is that he reallocate tropps from Iraq to Afganistan, and get rid of the ideological baggage carriers in the executive branch. He doesn’t need more than 51 cooperative Senators to accomplish that. The improvement in our government even if he accomplishes absolutely nothing in the Congress will be immeasurable.

And leaving Lieberman as the Homeland Security chair, directly related to the issues on which he broke from the Dems in the first place? NOT A CHANCE!

Kathy, I get what you’re saying, but I honestly do feel that accountability will not be restored by letting people off easy.
“Not getting their agenda enacted” just means that they’ll try harder next election – no evolution, just repetition.

Off with his fecking head.

Joe,

Interesting that you would even say that you could be capable of being non-partisan since you and the pundit rag you work for have not shown that in the last two years. Maybe you can now since your candidate is elected at least regain some of your intellectual honesty by reporting to the public about the new governance. People have been so critical of Bush but he has maintained much better numbers than the Democratic congress that dipped to single digits this summer. So maybe Obama is going to be the best president ever, however no one knows because he doesn’t have any experience. Maybe he will be like Clinton and get a lot of credit for doing nothing.

That would really help him. Hopefully he is not tested like Joe Biden said because after seeing his hands off approach to the Georgia situation and then finally a week later coming to the same conclusion of Bush and McCain. I hope maybe this time he will leave his vacation to actually address the issue. During the economic crisis flashing the peace sign and call me if you need me type of leadership is not going to help our current situation.

So maybe you can now start to repair your reputation with the American public which 70 percent think you MSM guys have been in the tank for Obama. So how about surprise us all an actually act like an actual reporter.

judgementz
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Why not go to freerepublic where people who think like you go to congregate? Im sure that your tinfoil hat has to be getting a little rusty by now dont you think its about time you either took it off and joined those of us in the real world or double down on it and just stroll on over to the WingNuttery sites? I mean you are making yourself look like so much of a loser by continuing the same bullsh!t smears AFTER your guy already lost. What good is it doing you now? Seriously man there has to be something better you could be doing with your time.

I say let Lieberman chair the Committee on Getting Sandwiches for Everyone Else and Don’t Forget the Mustard. If he wants to retain any support at home he’d be well advised not to vote against cloture, or with the R’s on the merits of most issues; if he doesn’t care, letting him keep his chairmanship won’t do much for the majority anyway.

“Remember — this is the guy who backed off an investigation into Katrina at the Bush White House’s insistence.”
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That was after campaigning on that issue to show how he wasn’t a Bush loyalist.

Sorry Kathy but Obama fulfills his bipartisan pledge when he accepts McCain at his word to work together. But Obama is a practical pol and if he wants to keep democrats in line to enact his agenda rather than to go rogue with their new majority he has to insist that Lieberman will get the boot.

judgementz, you raise excellent concerns. No way I’m voting that guy now.

Sgw,

So is this not a news sight? Or is it a totally partisan sight? It seems the liberals have basically taken over this sight. If I wanted to listen to a bunch of yes people then I would go to another sight I am here to debate. Why don’t you go hang out a moveon, or politico, or daily kooks if you want the same opinion that you hold. I have better things to do with my time but, I am tired of the left controlling the conversation on the web their needs to be alternate voices.

sgw–Have you checked the freepers lately? The watchwords there are “new sons of liberty” and “obstructionism” and “go underground and organize”
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Its an interesting mix of paranoia, martyr-complexes, and jingoistic hate. And tasty, tasty tears.

Perhaps if you had sufficient awareness to know the difference between a site and a sight, people might take your other opinions more seriously.

I frequently think it would be nice to have more diverse opinions expressed here at Swampland but unfortunately the rational-right has already abandoned the cause leaving judgementz aka jimmyjamz behind.

Judgementz, you know full well that you make this crapulous post as a bid for attention. You spew vacuous rhetoric and then accuse us of bias because we reject the nuttiness that you purport to be political theory, philosophy, or policy

“the difference between a site and a sight”
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Theirs a difference?

It was members of the press like Joe Klein whose weeping over the fact that Leiberman lost the Democratic primary in Conn. gave him the cover to run as an independent. If the press had accepted the will of the people instead of moaning and groaning over those mean Democrats, then SoreLoserMan would have been gone two years ago.

I want him kicked out of the caucus now. Let him go hang out with his buddy McCain and Huckleberry Graham.

Well then begin the debate instead of just commenting on me mistyping sight. Yes my I was distracted and accidentally let my spell check change that. If that is the basis of your argument then I hope you have much better.

Ok judge, you wrote this “I am tired of the left controlling the conversation on the web their(sic) needs to be alternate voices.”
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Care to share your thoughts on talk radio?

Okay not that I’ve vented lets not get carried away. Yes we all want to run Lieberman out on a rail but lets wait for the 111th congress so that the economic stimulus that Obama wants the Democrats to pass in the lame duck session will get done. Then we can kick Lieberman to the curb. IN the meantime though we can strip him of his leadership — we shouldn’t give him an opportunity to broker a sweet deal so he can leave the Senate in style.

I think the fact that he was derelict in his duties as chair of Homeland Security is sufficient grounds to remove him, regardless of his partisan loyalties.

PNNTO — Do you think judge can engage in rational conversation?

I, on the other hand, would throw Lieberman so far out of the Democratic caucus and party that he landed in Strom Thurmond’s rotting lap. I also think that if Reid et al choose not to do this then they owe Democrats all over the country a full explanation and justification of their choice of action, and that explanation would need to be on the order of “it was the only way we could prevent an immediate global nuclear conflagration” Seriously, screw the lousy *&#%@ piece of &^$)@*

judgementz – (who I think isn’t jimmyjamz, but the old judgement)(unless judgement was thrown off and came back as jimmyjamz – so hard to keep up)
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I responded seriously to two of your posts on other threads, but you had moved on. I note that you do choose to repeat the same points. Makes it less interesting for us to interact.

Well then begin the debate instead of just commenting on me mistyping sight
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You’re here to debate? Then pick a topic and start throwing up some links, fool!
Here, let’s start:
People have been so critical of Bush but he has maintained much better numbers than the Democratic congress that dipped to single digits this summer.
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First off, “much better numbers” still means approximately 23% approval rate. Which still means that the public recognizes Bush as a dismal failure. Every single criticism of his Administration is justly deserved.
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Second off, the reason Congress dipped to single digit approval numbers is (IMHO) because they were unable to follow their campaign promises. That is, we dislike them because they failed to enact a more liberal regime. Not because they weren’t close enough to Bush.

judgementz
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I will debate with you all day long on real issues or real policy but when you come in banging your wing nut bell nobody is interested in hearing that sh!t. Barack Obama wasn’t wrong on the invasion of Georgia and you would be hard pressed to find anybody other than John McCain to say he was. Georgia precipitated the incident by attacking S Ossetia and everybody but you and John McCain has figured that out. Then you come in with the bogus 70 percent think the MSM is in the tank for Obama bullsh!t. But if I ask you to back up your rhetoric you will run for the hills. This site hasnt been taken over by liberals, this site has been taken over by GROWNUPS. So again either step your game up or kick rocks to the wing nut sites

How would the GOP react if they had won and Hagel came groveling back to them after trashing McCain and actively campaigning for Obama at the Dem convention and at public events? I’m sensing it would be very similar, if not more vindictive.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

dumdedumdum: Thank you!

SG — I just love it when you are on troll defense.
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Matt I get that you want to kick some traitorous behind and I don’t blame you — except there’s the matter of the lame duck session, let get the second stimulus package out first then kick him to the curb — oh but we can still strip the chairmanship right away.
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But more importantly, Joe4 Klein I would rather you spend some time shining a light on how the remnants of the GOP is trying to define what change means.

Throwing Lieberman’s old azz out of the Democratic caucus serves no purpose. While revenge seems sweet, it is only a temporary fix. Lieberman knows he can be placed in an ultra cold Siberian box at any time and basically ignored and made to feel inconsequential for the rest of his 4 years in office. He also knows he has no chance of retaining his Senate seat in 2012. His careeer is basically over. Just forcing him to do his job and eat crow for the next four years is punishment enough. The best response the Democrats can muster is to follow the Sun-tzu saying “Keep your firends close and your enemies closer.” Heck you want to really drive the man crazy make sure he is required to attend a meeting with President Obama every two weeks.

“The best course of action would be to remove him as chair of the Homeland Security Committee, but allow him to retain his seniority.”

What seniority. He’s been an independent for all of 2 years.

Heck you want to really drive the man crazy make sure he is required to attend a meeting with President Obama every two weeks.
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Oooh, now that’s creative. I like it.

For judgementz

Stop your whining, you knew what this blog site was when you entered. But yet you are the one that decided to play in this playground.

Hey troll… gimme your lunch money… punk! If you don’t like the way we play then bring your Mommy the next time. Just make sure she’s got the rest of your lunch money for the week.

“PNNTO — Do you think judge can engage in rational conversation?”
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Of course not,Dee. I was bored.

OT-has MS come out of hiding since the Newsweek story broke? I am honestly curious to read what he thinks.
It seems they had very different experiences.

Dee – SGWhite – Cliff -
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As I said in my first comment (6, for me)”I’d strip him of his chairmanship, let him retain seniority.” I think they’ll make a distinction between consequences for disloyalty and being what could construed as personally vindictive.
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Also, he is a liberal centrist. He is not going to change positions, but he may compromise in order to get incremental change when he can’t get substantial change. I think, though, that he’ll game the congressional system fairly well.
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My guess is that he’ll avoid moves that justify the criticisms the Republicans level against him, so that they’ll continue to look like petty whiners.
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Anybody who gets all opponents off the ballot by successfully challenging nominating petitions knows how to play hardball. But it won’t be personal.

Pnnto -
MS has a really fine article on Time.com at the moment, deconstructing the Republicans’ infighting. It was in the most read list over on the right this afternoon, but I see it’s been superseded. I’ll look for it.

Thanks Kathy. I will go now and check it out.

Pnnto

Here’s Scherer’s latest, about the Republican circular firing squad
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1856620,00.html

Ultimate irony for judgenutz on Georgia is that he is (and McCain was) simply parroting lines fed from the odious Randy Scheunemann, who is in fact a lobbyist for Georgia. The same Randy, I might add, that was ignobly tossed from the McCain campaign for betraying it to the press days before the election.

On-topic: They have every right to go after Lieberman as he personally went after Obama (recall all the “appeaser” stuff). Lieberman is a Zionist traitor anyway.

Also, anyone notice the tiny tiny smiley face way underneath and to the left of the footer (under the red bar graphic)? What’s up with that Swampland?

Thanks Kathy. It was a good story. What struck me is that the power base of the republican is almost universaly southern.
I am going to enjoy this.

Kathy I agree with most of what you say — but Obama had a serious thing about loyalty. Joe was given permission to campaign for McCain with they caveat that he did not trash Obama specifically. When Obama hemmed Joe in a corner in the Congress he reminded him of that and Joe gambled that the black guy would lose and went back on his word. Obama has to show Democrats that he takes disloyalty seriously otherwise they will do what they want to do regardless of how it impacts his agenda. He only has a narrow window to get some pretty important things done — he is going to want a disciplined congress.

Paul,

I believe that talk radio is covered under the right to the first amendment of free speech.

Sgw,

For someone that asserts themself as a grownup can your base your argument less on labeling and more on fact? Maybe check your facts.

http://people-press.org/report/463/media-wants-obama

Newfloridian,

Actually I know that over the last 8 years this site has moved to a pundit site. I think that as a site that trys to pronounce itself as a news and information site that there needs to be some balance.

I dislike the ‘loyalty’ talk–it strikes me as very rovian and smacks of “loyal bushie” memories.

That said, you can’t expect to backstab the party in power and retain chairman positions.

Dee
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Exactly! I remember when Obama had Lieberman over in the corner on the Senate floor going the phuck off because Lieberman had smeared Obama before the RNC. But Lieberman promised he would knock it off so Obama let it go. One thing Obama can NOT afford do is be seen as weak on something like this. Whether the WingNuts want to make an issue out of this or not I think that every person who voted for Obama on tuesday would WANT him to strip Lieberman down for his disloyalty. You won’t please all of the people all of the time but you might want to please the 65 million that voted for you some of the time!

Dee – agreed. This doesn’t mean he’ll do it in a way that humiliates Lieberman or is even very public.

Hmmmm where did judgenutz go? Did he run away like the coward he has been all day posting and leaving? And here I was getting ready for a real debate. I should have known better

Viciousmaniac,

Actually I am basing those opinions on living in the metro Atlanta area. Watching the political ads that have run here during the election and seen first hand, maybe not heard about like yourself the blatant misrepresentation of the Fair Tax.

It is an easy topic to demagogue because people don’t know what the purpose of the fair tax and what it is proposing. Saying that it is just going to raise your taxes 23% is a lie, if you don’t also say that it removes many other taxes and the irs.

So actually vivious you are buying into rhetoric not me. Please check the facts.

but sg
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Obama really meant what he said about a new kind of politics. And as he showed in the campaign, he has the large picture in his viewfinder. Think of all the advice that he didn’t take during the campaign.

Ah sgw,

So now in typical liberal fashion you are going to just resort to name calling. I haven’t seen you be able to discredit any of my positions yet. The fact that you resort to just trying to discredit my point of view with humor or name calling doesn’t change the facts.

Kathy –

I agree Obama is too classy to do humiliate him public. But Lieberman is going to have to kiss the ring and wait for his fate a little and then when none of us are watching he is going for a ride in the fishing boat.

I agree Obama is too cl@ssy to do humiliate him public. But Lieberman is going to have to kiss the ring and wait for his fate a little and then when none of us are watching he is going for a ride in the fishing boat.

Kathy you are focused on the rhetoric and not the action — there is a reason that Obama was able to run such a disciplined campaign and that was because he set the rules and expected them to be followed. If somebody made a mistake you didn’t see any public floggings — but if they broke the rules they were just quietly disappeared.

oops sorry about the double posting somebody just let me out of the penalty box.

As Sarah Palin kept saying, a society is judged by how it treats those least able to defend themselves.
A flat tax requires minimum-wage workers to pay proportionally as much as those far more able to fend for themselves.
Reconcile, please.

Kathy, I’ll say this: If people like you were in charge of the government, I think we’d be in very good hands. (Just going by the tone and content of your posts here.)
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This is one of those topics where I’m more hawkish than any of the actual players, and so I have to learn how to accept more compromise than I really want to see.

Kathy
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Stripping Lieberman has nothing to do with old politics. Its what is practical. And lets be for real here. Its not like Obama was perfect in his campaign. He linked McCain to Rush because he knew it would work. He voted for FISA so McCain couldnt attack him for being soft on defense. I could go on but I am not trying to bash Obama. I am just saying that at times he has stepped over the line a little because it needed to be done. But let me let you think about something. If they allow Lieberman to keep his chairmanships do you think he is going to be loyal to Obama and have his back and support all of his decisions? Or do you think he might once again stab Obama in the back and try to make him look weak on Homeland Defense? If you can’t answer that question in an sbsolute then he shouldnt have his chairmanships. Thats just not practical nor realistic. Now its my personal wish that they humiliate him but I don’t think they will do that. But if they don’t strip him of his chairmanships then they for damm sure better have a good reason why not and get on TV and explain it to all of us just like dumdedum said up above

I haven’t seen you be able to discredit any of my positions yet.
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What, then, are your positions?

Forgive Lieberman? Has he asked for forgiveness yet? Publicly? I haven’t heard it.
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First I want to hear the apology for the sleazy way he behaved and the sleazy lies he supported. Then I want to hear the confession that he broke his word to the people of Connecticut that voted for him and the members of the Democratic party (like Obama) that supported him when he turned on the Democrats just weeks after being re-elected. The apology had better be a good. It had better sound heartfelt. A little groveling might also help — but probably not.
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As for now — he is welcome to vote with the Democrats on legislation and support cloture votes.

judge, what ARE your positions, exactly?
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Obama called out Georgia for poking the bear, and then asked both sides to show restraint. He didn’t rattle sabers since we have no moral standing to do so (thanks bush and iraq!) and Russia stopped after trouncing Georgia’s military.
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As for your argument about popularity figures…Bush has been consistently hovering between a 66-75% DISAPPROVAL rating for most of the year. Worst Ratings since ratings have been tracked, ever.
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Congress as a whole is rarely popular. However, their unpopularity can largely be laid on their low productivity….which is a direct result of the most obstructionist senate minority ever in the form of McConnell’s Republicans. I believe the last figure I saw indicated a tripling of the filibuster record (a technicality; Reid never really made them actually filibuster past cloture vote attempts).
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It should be interesting to see if Reid and McConnell can actually work with each other now that its not a 49-49 split.

judgenutz
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You have yet to state any facts. When you state your “facts” I will refute them with hard facts and links to back me up. So its on you little buddy. Do you feel lucky? Do ya?

OT – I like the new banner. Now if someone could do something about the moderation…

SG– The Lieberman chairmanship is history. I think Obama probably asked Reid to wait until he got to DC so he could tell him personally. (that’s personal)
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But the real to take away the chairmanship of Homeland Security is not just about defense — its about immigration enforcement, Katrina and Fema, it’s about ACORN, its about seizing the means of obstruction the right wing wants to use to undermine his presidency. that’s not old poitics — that’s old school.
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the sppeech in chicago said it all. No more immaturity in politics and to do that you have to take the toys away from the children.

“The best course of action would be to remove him as chair of the Homeland Security Committee, but allow him to retain his seniority.”

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Besides the ability to choose committee assignments, what else does seniority give you in the Senate? Are we talking about office space here?

One should always discipline one of your own far harsher than the enemy. Lieberman cannot be trusted at any level. What social issues will be on the front burner that Dems should make common cause w/ this idiot? If we believe he’s made the choices he’s made recently due to his deep beliefs as opposed to spite, then he’ll vote issue by issue according to these alleged deep beliefs anyway right?

Lieberman is a spite based life form…take everything away…including parking privileges.

Hammerlock
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We just had an election where overwhelmingly more Dems were voted into the Congress than Republicans. Dems gains seats in both the House and the Senate. On the other hand on the presidential level the great majority again voted Democrat. So if judgenutz wants to talk approval ratings I would say we had a pretty damm good indicator on tuesday whom the American people approves of and whom they dissapprove of woudnt you agree?

Cincy —
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and you know that he won’t have much choice because voters in Connecticut are ready to dump him anyway. If he votes for anything crazy they are libel to recall him.

I wasn’t gonna rub it in sgw–”new politics” and all
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That said, yeah that pretty much slams home that argument. I was just trying to provide context to the congressional approval figures.

Cincy — he11
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I just want to say that losing congressional parking privileges is really bad. I used to work in DC and there is no alternative parking around the Senate office buildings — none!.. If he loses it he will have to walk to work.

McCain’s career is effectively over.

For whatever period he has left to sit as a senator, his party will be a rump, and for the immediate short-term anyway, it will be engaged in a vicious civil war in which he is personally entangled and for which there is no escape. No need for Klein to go further.

But I will–I will add that there is a strange death-wish vapor that trails after him, and has from his earliest days as a pilot. 4 (or was it 5) crashes? The choice to ignore procedure and make a high-stakes play over Hanoi that ended in his being held prisoner.

Where he made a choice he would regret forever. I don’t judge him for that, but it mysteriously foretold events to come.

The infidelity and divorce. How much of John McCain’s character as a “maverick” came from his and Cindy’s social exile that followed his marriage to her? The bitterness still lingers in his description of “Georgetown cocktail parties”–you can almost feel the chill as the ghosts from decades passed turned their backs on the twenty-something blonde heiress homewrecker. Some things money can’t buy.

The Keating scandal–where once again McCain’s character was tested and failed. A failure he felt and regretted for his whole life–but still, not long enough to change the essential McCain.

And finally, at the end of his career, his race for the White House. Where he faced the ultimate test of character. “Country First” rang out across the land, as McCain engaged in an orgy of all his worst impulses–rolling the dice for America’s future with a young sexually vibrant companion, and calling up the dark forces of the nation to carry him to its throne.

And yet again, in typical McCain fashion, he created this test of character in order to fail.

This is his fate, and he wrote it.

Leiberman–he was always just a sidekick. Like McCain, his credibility and his weight in the affairs of the nation have evaporated. He has outlived the era in which he mattered. Let him have that to look forward to for the rest of his days in the Senate.

I’m with Mr. Klein – just give Lieberman the necessary punishment and and move on. Vindictiveness and revenge is SO last administration.

Judgenutz didn’t take my “fair tax” bait. So now I’ll just say — what do uneducated wingnuts have against rich people paying taxes?

Lieberman has to be tossed out of the Democratic party. It isn’t a question of being mean-spirited, Joe has deserted the party and the Democrats have to stop with the Stockholm syndrome stuff. If they force him to caucus with the Republicans he won’t get re-elected next time, and they can get an actual Democrat in that seat. He’s not the tie breaking vote in the senate anymore, we don’t need him.

Sen. Lieberman seems to have little interest in his role as head of the Governmental Affairs Committee in the last few years. I fear he’ll now find renewed interest there. Definitely remove him completely from leadership there.
I have no faith in him being in a position of any leadership within the caucus. He can remain in the caucus if he likes but no committee leadership at all.
I don’t care if he switches parties for leadership there. He’ll just be another old, angry, minority party member there.

Dee, from what I’ve heard you can’t recall a Senator in Conn, but I’m not a 100% sure. Anyone?

Is anyone a little offended that Joe, after years of internalized right wing memes, the default position he and others have taken about the supposed tone deafness of the Dem party, the weakness on foreign policy, being out of touch w/ the ‘regular guy’, etc, etc., who’ve never shied away from taking pot shots at the left, now wants the Dems to be gracious after winning a mandate? Has Joe been busy writing columns about the necessity of the GOP to be ‘gracious’ to the Dems over the last decade that I’m not aware of?

“Paul,
I believe that talk radio is covered under the right to the first amendment of free speech.”
So when asked about talk radio in the context of “”I am tired of the left controlling the conversation on the web their(sic) needs to be alternate voices.”
You answer with gibberish.
The election sure didn’t make the republicans any smarter.

LATimes article about the Sarah Palin firing squad.
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After the lipstick on a pig gate Faux outrage from the Wing Nuts I wonder if they will be throwing McCain under the bus behind all this. Or will they realize that Palin really didnt know sh!t.
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http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-palin6-2008nov06,0,5597211.story

If they want to be generous, fine. But take away the committee chair.
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Elections have consequences.

Cincy — I’m not sure if they can recall Joe but I’m darn sure they probably want to. In any event he is not going to win reelection.
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Joe is not a problem long term the voters will take care of that — but he has to be neutered now so that he doesn’t use his chairmanship to do things under the radar that will undermine Obama first 100 days.

Dee,
“Seventy-one percent of Republicans approve of his performance, and 76 percent of Democrats disapprove.”
http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc-connecticutpoll1028.artoct28,0,1851441.story?page=2

All of Lieberman’s support comes from Republicans, since his support depends on Republicans, how could he be trusted to do the right thing as far as the Dems are concerned?

I agree he can’t be trusted, especially since he broke his word not to attack Obama personally.

Lieberman & Ferraro–two folks who should get one-way tickets deep into the wilderness with their good GOP & FOX chums. Obama will accomplish what he wants with or w/out Lieberman’s support. I’d be happier to work with McCain than a traitor, a neocon fascist spouting f-wit like him. God, if only his indy run for reelection had been this year–he’s be out on his arse right now. There’s magnanimity but god it can only go so far.

I second the motion that holding people accountable != vindictiveness. And I certainly hope the new AG pursues those criminals from the Bush administration appropriately, with no more or less enthusiasm than is necessary to hold these people accountable for their crimes.

From MS’s Time article:
‘
Better now to draft policies that address the new concerns of the middle class: economic stagnation, environmental protection and health-care reform.
‘
Since when are environmental protection & health-care reform a “conservative” concern? How do those concepts tie in with taking money from the middle class and funneling it to the rich?

I know this is a dead thread but I think judge might think he or she is at a different spot than this.
“Newfloridian,
Actually I know that over the last 8 years this site has moved to a pundit site. I think that as a site that trys to pronounce itself as a news and information site that there needs to be some balance.”
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Last 8 years?

Here come the judge, here come the judge .. Judge is perhaps confused? Last 8 years?

Maybe it’s as Marilyn Manson says: I don’t like the drugs but the drugs like me. Fashback judgementz? Or just an alternative universe?
For God sakes man (woman) stay away from the brown acid!

Off with his head!

I suggest that Lieberman be treated with compassion and charity. Castration and defenestration ought to fit the bill.

sgwhiteinfla Says:
Thursday, November 6, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Kathy
Obama also said he would talk to our enemies. But don’t for a minute think that means he won’t put his foot in their azzes

I am very happy to remind you, Obama has already said he will meet with the “enemy”, “UNCONDITIONALLY, and without pre-conditions.” Enjoy your new President, dumba$$. Shall he send out Louis Farrakhan as an emissary to soothe the savages before Obama himself sits down with the likes of Ahmeninajad? Oh that’s right, Obama has Colin Powell now to do the leg work.

And for dear Joe Klein, I suppose crucifying Lieberman like they did Jesus Christ 2000 years ago is not in the cards? I’m shocked that you do not agree with the rest of the commenters on this site.

rustyreturns
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My friend you are the DUMBA$$. Every former Secretary of State agrees with Barack Obama including Henry Kissinger and Jim Baker. YOU and all of your fellow stupid ignorant easily led sheep are the only ones who are frightened of something our country has done for all of its history until George Bush came to office. Not talking to our enemies with our pre condition shows weakness and exposes the cowardice of this administration and YOU. I am sure you are one of the guys who used to get his azz kicked by the school bully and would run away whenever you saw them coming your way. I am the type of guy who stood up to the bully and told him if he phucked with me I was going to kick his azz. I kept my lunch money how about you?
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By the way are you comparing Joe Lieberman to Jesus Christ? Aren’t NeoCons normally the ones who say liberals think Obama is the messiah. Nice to see you tearing that meme to shreds lol

I definitely think Dems should be gracious. The kerfuffle with Lieberman was/is a high profile affair and it doesn’t hurt for the public to see us being magnanimous toward Lieberman, it reinforces a message that we are serious about the country’s business and have no intention of acting like vindictive Republicans.

Joe: I have come to this late. I don’t buy your “let’s be generous” meme. This man campaigned at McCain’s side when McCain made some of his harshest charges against Obama. He attended the RNC Convention and spoke there (shades of Zell Hell). I don’t want Democrats to be magnanimous with this man. He did not accept his defeat by Ned Lamont with an iota of grace and turned to the Republicans in Conn. This guy is a serial offender. No: he should be given no chair, no seniority and keep his independent status. For once I want Democrats to make it clear that on this issue going along to get along is pure bs.

Joe Klein’s suggestion is not only humane but practical. Anything harsher than these recommendations will generate media flurries (particularly from Fox and Fiends) and distract from the important issues that must be handled quickly and thoughtfully.

One of Leiberman’s roles is chairman of the Senate subcommittee on Private Sector and Consumer Solutions to Global Warming and Wildlife Protection (under the committee on Environment & Public Works). You’d think this might be a body with some interest in greenwashing and such, but they are not THAT interested; their last posted hearing is November, 2007. Given that, I’m all for replacing Joe with someone who might actually do something. After all, if the new President wants to empower and engage individual action on the important issues of our time, this subcommittee might want to get up to speed.

Posted from my soapbox at: http://nicewhitelady.blogspot.com/2008/11/election-connection.html

Rusty, good to see you! I was worried you and your other personalities had committed ritual seppuku Tuesday night.

As for Lieberman, looking at the Sentate seniority list he’s 29th, below Chuck Dodd, the senior Senator from Connecticut. That means he has no power over appointments in CT, and seniority has very little other perks. So letting him keep his seniority will have little practical effect. So if that were all there was to this issue Reid and Obama can afford to be generous and while it’s fun watching Lieberman’s butt tighten (“The election is over, and I completely agree with (Democratic) President-elect (Barack) Obama . . . ” LOVE it!) stripping him of his chairmanship is all that really is needed.

The real issue is if he acts as a “mole” in the Democratic caucus. There was some concern that he did so during the campaign. Of course, his best buddies on the R side, McCain and Graham, don’t look likely to be the toast of the town over there, either, so the risk may be minimal. If Reid doesn’t kick Lieberman to the curb, there it is.

Am I missing something? Didn’t Leiberman run and get elected as an Independent? Good, let him caucus with the Independents. Then elevate a real Demo to the chair currently wasted on Connecticut Joe.

Trying to free this from the moderatron . . .

Rusty, good to see you! I was worried you and your other personalities had committed ritual seppuku Tuesday night.

As for Lieberman, looking at the Sentate seniority list he’s 29th, below Chuck Dodd, the senior Senator from Connecticut. That means he has no power over appointments in CT, and seniority has very little other perks. So letting him keep his seniority will have little practical effect. So if that were all there was to this issue Reid and Obama can afford to be generous and while it’s fun watching Lieberman’s posterior tighten (“The election is over, and I completely agree with (Democratic) President-elect (Barack) Obama . . . ” LOVE it!) stripping him of his chairmanship is all that really is needed.

The real issue is if he acts as a “mole” in the Democratic caucus. There was some concern that he did so during the campaign. Of course, his best buddies on the R side, McCain and Graham, don’t look likely to be the toast of the town over there, either, so the risk may be minimal. If Reid doesn’t kick Lieberman to the curb, there it is.

Of course, since this was all written, Lieberman indicates he thinks he’s got a hand to play here. From Politico:
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“Senator Lieberman’s preference is to stay in the caucus, but he’s going to keep all his options open,” a Lieberman aide said. “McConnell has reached out to him and at this stage his position is he wants to remain in the caucus but losing the chairmanship is unacceptable.”
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At this point, Joe Klein, don’t you think Reid’s best answer is “don’t let the door hit you on the [expletive deleted] on your way out?”

billie–Reid’s best answer is what’s he’s already said: the subcom chair/committee member is the most lieberman will see. If he chooses to reject that and gets a caucus deal from mcconnell, he’ll get a whopping consolation prize of….ranking minority member on a committee. Which is even less prestigious and influential.
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In short, Lieberman’s options are jack and sh!t. And jack left town.

[...] that they do the same. Joe Klein, who refers to the “flagrantly dreadful” Lieberman, writes that allowing him to keep his committee chairmanship but revoking his seniority is “far more [...]