In the Arena

Enddirt

Well, we’ve seen this sort of thing the entire campaign,occasionally from the Obama camp, relentlessly from McCain. Today’s edition of scrofulous mudslinging–aided and abetted by a banner headline from the Drudge Scourge–involves a wildly inaccurate reading of remarks that Barack Obama made in a 2001 radio interview. It turns out that he wasn’t criticizing the Supreme Court for its failure to “redistribute” wealth. He was saying the exact opposite: that the Supreme Court wasn’t the way to go. He was saying that political power was the only real way to make decisions about the distribution of taxation. Obama’s sentiment is, of course, a wildly radical notion–or, at least it was, before the American Revolution.

To state the obvious, once again: We have had a redistribution of wealth, upward, during the Reagan era. Taxes on work, a.k.a. payroll taxes, have increased. Taxes on wealth, the upper margins of the income tax plus capital gains plus estate taxes, have decreased. To call Obama a socialist because he wants to redress this imbalance is as accurate as calling McCain an oligarch because he doesn’t.

Now that McCain’s been called out on this, you figure he’ll stop using it, right? Yeah, sure. After all, this is mild compared to the trash going out in those robo-calls. You wonder how McCain returns to the land of the living after this campaign is over–after all, his voice and vote, and his pre-campaign moderation, would be valuable on issues like immigration and global warming. There must be some sort of political detox, right?

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  • trifecta

    He will apologize for burning a cross in front of the South Carolina flag and all will be forgiven again.

  • Ohg Rea Tone

    Yeah, but John McCain has been exposed as a natural blond. ………….

    http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/10/27/mccain-has-found-his-voice-but-it-is-too-late/

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    He will continue to behave as if he inhabits an alternative universe and when you call him on it he will answer in the famous words of Gary coleman “Whatcha talking about Willis??

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    I’m still waiting for someone who’s less than 28 years old even explain what “redistribution” means and why its supposed to be bad.
    .
    Part of McCain’s problem is that the bogeymen he invokes are only bogeymen to those of us who are old enough to have it explained in school why Capitalism was so superior to Communism and why the USA was on the side of angels. Now that the main socialist menace is that the Chinese are embracing Capitalism without that pesky decent standard of living expectation and labor laws that hamper US companies, US companies respond by laying off Americans and hiring Chinese and then scratch their heads wondering where all their customers got off to.

    Obama suddenly suggests that perhaps Americans would like some jobs and a little pocket change in order to be able to buy products and McCain screams SOCIALIST!

    I don’t get it.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    McCain will be a Man Without A Country – re-forsaken by the evangelicals, who only got on board because of Palin, re-despised by ideological conservatives, who only stopped hating him with a passion long enough to attempt a win, re-ignored by the Rockefeller Republicans who can settle fully on Romney now, and kicked to the curb the center whose disgust he earned by running a truly despicable campaign. I feel sorry for Cindy. Wouldn’t want to be her.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Did you guys catch Bill Burton calling FoxNews out? Do you think they will ask him back after this?

  • CedarFlute

    Sitting in a local bar/cafe tonight listening to a couple of drunks lambasting Obama and everything Democratic, and then an e-mail from my fanatically rigiht-wing brother saying the ONLY issue on the table is abortion — it occurred to me McCain has no choice but to feed these people. I’m not sure anybody else is listening.

  • etsumi

    Come on, Joe, surely Mac is a good god-fearing Christian. We have to take the maverick at his word about his deep faith in Jesus. So, I’m not sure about detox but in death he can be surely be redeemed. Pre-death, sorry, but forgiveness ain’t possible. For you guys in the narrative business, those who can look past his demogogy (considering it mere political contamination, that he’s really innocent and has just surrounded himself with scum) and not consider him filth b/c he might see the light on one or two issues in the future, well, please feel free. That’s your prerogative. But it’s also why we still don’t trust you. If you give a free forgiveness pass to the likes of Mac, than all your previous columns/posts condemning his tactics are for moot.

    Meanwhile, he can go back to Sedona et al with his plastic trophy wife and cobble together the necessary self-respect to look himself in the mirror in the morning. Who’d have thought he’d make Gore and Kerry look like winners in defeat, compared to pathetic campaign he’s run and the coming GOP armageddon.

    “I am still honorable” he’ll be whispering, hungover and twitching like the f-tool he is. I’ll weep at his passing like I weeped for Helms.

  • theoriginaljames

    Paul D. you are on top of it. Unfortunately, the average Joe (Plumber, or whatever) hasn’t a clue. Would limiting the massive CEO compensation packages and distributing it to the stockholders be socialist?

    My point is that the Fascist Party followers don’t really get it. Obama looks to win, and I am holding my breath until it really happens, because half of this country is ignorant and fascist.

  • theoriginaljames

    Cedar, I have been there.

  • letaaronbeaaron

    As long as John McCain can find mouthpieces gullible enough to catapult the propaganda, why should he stop?
    .
    Also, I think it is more prudent to build an issue by issue super majority in the Senate. Joe Lieberman has been willing to vote for environmental packages without large giveaways to the nuclear power lobby. Lindsey Graham was a big supporter of the immigration bill. Even some of the most conservative Senators have an issue or two on which they find themselves in agreement with the Democratic Party. No man is an island.

  • newfloridian

    What surprises anyone about what is happening? It was all predictable. Republicans have no honor, they do not deal in truth. The end justifies the means. Lies, racism, theft of voting rights, division of the country are all on the table very day of the year.

    What I would love to hear Obama say in the next week is… The election officials who violated Federal law in regards to purging of voter lists will be prosecuted.

    At his inauguration I would love to hear him say equal access to the public airways will be enforced. Those television and radio outlets who have manipulated the truth for personal gain and power will have their licenses stripped. Mr. Murdock you are on notice.

  • Andy from Massachusetts

    I’m looking forward to McCain administration. How could he govern if he wins?

  • swimmin

    I’m not sure how McCain rehabilitates his brand name or integrity after this campaign is over. He went all in with the slime attacks and I suspect he will be forever branded. What a pitiful denouement to a once honorable public servant!

  • http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=5489 Fact Checker Debunks Attacks on Obama and Redistribution of Wealth – Liberal Values – Defending Liberty and Enlightened Thought

    [...] my earlier round up of comments on this story, Joe Klein has also weighed in: Well, we’ve seen this sort of thing the entire campaign,occasionally [...]

  • gysgt213

    McCain has no future. This is it Joe. If he does not make it this time there is nothing to save. People will forgive after he is dead. It happens all the time.
    .
    This is no slam on you, but after this, it’s utterly, completely and finally over.

  • Jim, Foolish Literalist

    you might also point out that John McCain opposed Bush tax cuts in 2000 for reasons very much like Obama’s rationale today. Just one of those many flip-flops that McCain can’t remember, nor any reporter who addresses him.

    YOUNG WOMAN: Are we getting closer and closer to, like, socialism and stuff?. . .
    MCCAIN: Here’s what I really believe: That when you reach a certain level of comfort, there’s nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.

    http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/11/03/081103taco_talk_hertzberg?printable=true

    (Is this wordpress nonsense permanet?)

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  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Joe the mistake you make is that while you have called McCain on the sleaze in his campaign, you still believe that it is the result of being coerced by his desire to be president. So you ask what he will do to repair the damage. Unfortunately, person of great character is not coerced into sleaze by his naked ambitions. The propensity to rise above self-interest is kind of the definition of character –so what would he actually be repairing?

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=1191832308&ref=name Shakespeare in GA

    A good friend of mine was chatting online with me last night and told me he had lost big with the recent economic meltdown. He proceeded to tell me he had lost 1 million dollars in the stock market. He’s got less than 2 million dollars left. The sky is falling. His wife is investing in gold, he tells me. And then he scoffs at Obama’s “redistribution of wealth” plan.
    .
    Before the scoffing, I felt bad for him. I mean, a million bucks is a ton of money. Then again, so is 1.5+ million, which is what my friend has left. I have no idea what that much money would look like. We go a few rounds over the definition of “redistribution.” I tell him we’ve been doing it for at least 8 years, but we’ve been redistributing the wealth upwards. He counters by saying Bush isn’t to blame for the recent Wall Street convulsions–it was Clinton’s fault because he signed off on deregulation 9 years ago. Before I can marshal a thoughtful response–that Clinton was fighting a Republican congress at the time, for instance–I shoot back the following: “My sister-in-law has $500 left.” It’s true–my sister-in-law in Florida has five hundred bucks left in her retirement fund. Period.
    .
    It was a cheap shot, I admit. And my friend said that was truly terrible for my sister-in-law and we stopped talking about politics.
    .
    When did we get so bent around the idea that paying taxes is evil? When did we forget that there are more important things in the world than protecting our money? Sure, we need money. We need it. Love it. But this whole “Obama’s a socialist!” crap, the “Watch your wallet!” line I hear constantly from my father…when did it stop being about lifting people up? I nearly wept when I listened to Colin Powell’s endorsement of Obama, not because he endorsed the man but because of what Powell said about being American and what America should be.
    .
    But then, what the heck do I know. I just live in the red state of Georgia.
    .
    Though it’s starting to turn pinkish.

  • theoriginaljames

    Shakespear, what a great post. Of course, with me, you preach to the choir. I especially agree with the tax thing. The fascist party pitches no tax. Yes? Where does the money for the wars they wage come from? Their prisons? Can we have roads and education? The no tax deal is the most inane thing they preach, after all of the hate they pander to.

  • gysgt213

    My point at 12. is that there is no reason for McCain not to go for broke and sell his soul. He has nothing left and he knows it.

  • CedarFlute

    I think my brother skipped over the teaching, “Love thy neighbor as thyself.”

  • maurice2u

    For McCain this is High Stakes Poker. He is “all in”, and has put his entire life-savings of career, reputation, integrity, and yes … even his seven homes on the line.
    .
    It is the ultimate gamble, in doing so he is assuming that once in power he can say it was all “for the greater good”.
    .
    I hate to see a “mavericky gambler” lose it all like a junky pawning off his family’s heirlooms for one more hit of drugs. But alas, that is oft the tragic end of a broken one-time hero, and it seems it shall be the tale to be told once again. It shall be an interesting read in the history books, but sad nonetheless.

  • CedarFlute

    gysgt….I think I’ll become ssgt….which service?

  • gysgt213

    Flute: Marines.

  • CedarFlute

    gysgt: Sempre Fi – DaNang ’68-’69

  • theoriginaljames

    Cedar, he is called gunny, and he is a master from the old swamp.

  • theoriginaljames

    But I do like the new swamp after the hassle of reregistering and all.

  • pierogielunaire

    This whole “redistribution of wealth” mantra is so absurd. It’s not like either party is pushing the flat tax fer cryin’ out loud. And Obama’s statement is that 2001 interview should actually be appealing to the strict constructionist types.

    formerly superterrificdelegate

  • theoriginaljames

    hello superterrificdelegate, I had to change my nick too from plain james.

  • theoriginaljames

    I just noticed that it is not immediate post here. There is a moderation delay.

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=1191832308&ref=name Shakespeare in GA

    Being a reformed Republican (I’m a little-left-of-center independent), I’ve occasionally had haunting twinges of guilt when I think about politics and about liking Democrats. I remember Clinton being elected in ’92 and half-joking with my friends that we’d have to move to Canada. I even remember feeling–a very, very small part of me feeling–that Bush might be okay when he was elected in 2000. I’d like to thank Bush II, Cheney, DeLay, Gingrich, Limbaugh, Ashcroft, Gonzalez, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and now John McCain for helping me to kick that guilt trip. It’s truly bizarre how badly things have gone–it’s comic-book bad, like an alternate universe kind of bad. And how stupidly our government acted over the past eight years in order to get us here today. And how toxic the Republican party has become. I can see Ronald Reagan, their supposed saint, looking down at today’s GOP and shaking his head. “There you go again,” he says.
    .
    So thanks, GOP, for liberating me from any earlier sense of misguided loyalty. I’m just sorry it’s come at such a terrible cost.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    I just noticed that it is not immediate post here. There is a moderation delay.

    Actually it’s not a universal delay. They’re using the same algorithm the NSA uses to flag terrorist suspect phone calls. With a few modifications designed to encourage false-positives.

  • theoriginaljames

    Thanks, Paul D. That explains all, except that I am not a terrorist. Whatever.

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=1191832308&ref=name Shakespeare in GA

    You guys used “terrorist” and got posted. My most recent post has “Rumsfeld” in it and is in moderation…

  • southernbell49

    I’m scared some of the mud will stick on Obama but on the other hand I wonder if there is so much of it and it’s so blatant and scattershot it will just backfire.

    Running the two-minute ads and buying the half-hour block of TV time were both excellent ideas.

  • suziesunshine1976

    Well, I was formerly Suzie in MD, but that was apparently not acceptable. And I am about to say something neither particularly sunshiny nor original: this new format blows. Jeez, I go away for a weekend and everything falls apart!

    How come some of you are able to have spaces and/or capital letters in your usernames? From what I understood, I couldn’t have either.

    Sorry about the technical questions. Hope all is well for you. I’m missing seeing many of our former commenters. Are they here under different names?

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=1191832308&ref=name Shakespeare in GA

    Being a reformed Republican (I’m a little-left-of-center Independent), I’ve occasionally had haunting twinges of guilt when I think about politics and about liking Democrats. I remember Clinton being elected in ’92 and half-joking with my friends that we’d have to move to Canada. I even remember feeling–a very, very small part of me feeling–that Bush might be okay when he was elected in 2000.
    .
    I’d like to thank Bush II, Cheney, DeLay, Gingrich, Limbaugh, Ashcroft, Gonzalez, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and now John McCain for helping me to kick that guilt trip. It’s truly bizarre how badly things have gone–it’s comic-book bad, like an alternate universe kind of bad. And how stupidly our government acted over the past eight years in order to get us here today. And how toxic the Republican party has become. I can see Ronald Reagan, their supposed saint, looking down at today’s GOP and shaking his head. “There you go again,” he says.
    .
    So thanks, GOP, for liberating me from any earlier sense of misguided loyalty. I’m just sorry it’s come at such a terrible cost.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    That explains all, except that I am not a terrorist.

    Precisely my point!

  • suziesunshine1976

    Okay, my first comment is being moderated, so I’ll try this again, avoiding any potentially hazardous vocabulary:

    By the way, I was formerly Suzie in MD, but that was apparently not acceptable. And I am about to say something neither particularly sunshiny nor original: this new format [verb involving gusty winds]. [Interjection that may offend religious purists], I go away for a weekend and everything falls apart!

    How come some of you are able to have spaces and/or capital letters in your usernames? From what I understood, I couldn’t have either.

    Sorry about the technical questions. Hope all is well for you. I’m missing seeing many of our former commenters. Are they here under different names?

  • theoriginaljames

    suzie, I think everybody from the old place is here getting reoriented. Welcome. Formerly james.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    suzie and others if you go to your word press profile and put in your old screen name into the nickname slot and then choose your nickname as your display name

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Suzie —

    Paul Dirks posted on a previous thread how to do it. look at the tito thread.

  • Slowhand Ted

    I think most everyone’s here Suzie, but this new format – especially the moderation thing – is such a disincentive to posting that unless you’re really motivated to post on a subject, it’s more trouble than its worth.
    .
    The new format/moderation idea will go down in world history as Swampland’s Choose-Palin-For-Veep moment.

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=1191832308&ref=name Shakespeare in GA

    For names with caps and spaces–go to the “My Profile” page on WordPress (the new program you have to go through to create your username, etc.) and type whatever you want into your “Nickname” (below “Username”). Your nickname can have spaces, capital letters, etc. Then below that, there is a drop-down window where you can choose which name to display on your posts–Username, or Nickname. Choose Nickname and you’re golden.
    .
    And Paul has better instructions somewhere around here.

  • Suzie in MD

    You all rock! I’m back!!!!! No longer as sunshiny, though…

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Weird how things turn out. Sarah Palin gets a $150,000 wardrobe for free and Levi Johnston will pay dearly for not wearing a raincoat.

  • http://www.findingrhythm.com/blog/?p=1295 Joe Klein Offers Some Sanity

    [...] his blog at [...]

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Arrgh – testin’ a bit o’ th’ pirate lingo, mateys…
    .

    There be no one payin’ attention no more t’ whatever th’ scum Black Johnnie r an’ ‘is devil wench Bloody Sarah, Valentino-hide scourge o’ th’ Tundra be a sayin’. Let ‘em sling th’ slime from th’ scuppers all they be desirin’ – it be th’ death throes o’ th’ old rottin’ order, don’t ye be knowin’ – in another week, this be all over an’ th’ bloody scalawags will be lickin’ their pustules whilst they be slitherin’ back inta th’ dank stinkin’ muck ‘neath their barnacle-covered rocks :) .
    .
    Arrgh!!!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Well – my pirate comment is in moderation – good luck to ye on that one, mates :) .

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Make that my pirate-SPEAK comment.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    The thread goes to pourme!

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    I should repost this once per thread: This time for Suzie in MD.

    As a public service, I’ve just uploaded screenshots of where you need to go in order to alter your screen-name in WordPress.

    Find them here:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/phd9/2978093757/
    and here:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/phd9/2978964242/

    Go to My Account – edit Profile

    Name
    Username phd9 Your username cannot be changed
    First name
    Last name
    Nickname Paul Dirks
    Display name publicly as Paul Dirks

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    In fact, if Johnston had kept his Levis on and his johnson on leave, he might never have become the son-in-law of the imminently former VP candidate who never appeared bang next to Ted Stevens in those awful fake photographs and who never drove the town of Wasilla into $20 million of debt, and who never owned more than a single shirt and a pair of fluffy slippers in her life, doggone it, much less a $150,000 wardrobe which nobody from the RNC, the GOP or the McCain Farewell Tour has ever seen, much less bought. Funny, what one debriefing will do for your future. There is a lesson in this for all of us, and it seems to revolve around avoiding dangerous women in Alaska. Does this help the nation? Well, only impressionable young men who plan to move to Alaska, but that’s better than nothing, I suppose.

  • CedarFlute

    Michelle Bachman is all warm and fuzzy on our local channels in Minnesota, doing penance for her “anti-Americans” comments last week.

  • wvng

    Mighty nice to have the real Suzie back!
    .
    As for McCain, the fact that he was capable of running this campaign proves that he was never ever the man the msm took him for. It has been most informative to see how Obama and McCain reacted under pressure.

    As Steve Benen noted, in a post about Senator Pressler endorsing Obama:
    .
    “But Pressler’s explanation for why he dumped McCain for Obama is the part that stood out for me. For weeks, the pundits have noted that the financial crisis has seriously undermined the McCain campaign. That’s true, but it overlooks why — McCain has handled the crisis really badly. It’s not enough to simply note that a focus on the economy is necessarily good news for Obama; McCain had a chance to deal with this crisis effectively and he blew it.”
    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_10/015387.php

    Now I get to see if this puts me in moderation. Suzie, that is the new Swampland game. “To be in moderation, or not to be. . . . “

  • CedarFlute

    Michelle Bachman warm and fuzzy on local channels in Minnesota, doing penance for her comments last week. (original post in moderation for I don’t know what)

  • wvng

    So, Paul. Can my name be Paul Dirks too?

    No that I want it to be, but . . . .

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Joe – it’s not a wildly inaccurate reading, it’s a deliberately distorted reading. Big difference. Hardly surprising, though.

    What I said in pirate-speak that’s stuck in moderation is essentially that no one, except perhaps the base in nutville, is paying any attention to or believes any of this stuff. No one cares because they know it’s a bunch of bulls**t, but the McCain campaign doesn’t get it. They just keep slinging. Sigh. One more week.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    WVNG — That’s it in a nutshell. It’s seems like there is a concerted effort to not only excuse McCain’s obvious lack of leadership skills, but to not give credit to Obama for exceptional skills.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    WVNG — It’s seems like there is a concerted effort to not only excuse McCain’s obvious lack of leadership skills, but to not give credit to Obama for exceptional skills

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    WVNG — Let me try this one more time to stay out of moderation.

    It’s seems like there is an effort to excuse McCain’s obvious mediocre leadership skills, and to avoid giving credit to Obama for exceptional skills.

  • Tom in The Swamp

    McCain’s own slime is nothing compared to the radioactive sludge being pumped out y Scott Wheeler’s “National Republican trust” PAC on his behalf.

    See their latest incredibly disgusting work here:

    Yes, featuring Jeremiah Wright.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    This is a test. I am NOT pourmecoffee.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    That’s bad.

    Alert the high sherriffs. Nicknames are easily spoofed.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Nooooo! We can steal identities here???

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Paul Dirks said that:

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Wait – wait – let’s be rusty and obamish and kaybeel! Let’s reform them – help them see the light :) ! Give them screeds against the wingnuts…make them love Obama and reistribution – the possibilities are temporarily endless :) !

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    reDistribution – the glittering options paralyzed my little digits :) .

  • Jim, Foolish Literalist

    This whole wordpress thing is a disaster

    As for McCain, the fact that he was capable of running this campaign proves that he was never ever the man the msm took him for.

    I think he wants to be that man but, in spite of all the screaming about Obama’s Messiah complex, it’s McCain who thinks he’s the chosen one. When he says, “I know how to win wars”, “I know how to capture bin Laden”, “Our enemies know me” with what he seems to think was steely, menacing gravitas but actually came off as self-parody, what he’s saying is that he can do all those things simply by being teh Awesomeness That Is John McCain. It’s like with the ‘campaign suspension’ to resolve the market crash(es). He’s not on any relevant committee, had no plan, no ideas, but his physical presence was going to make everything well. He and Linsey Graham believe this. He takes self-importance and self-righteousness to pathological levels.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    I’ve been banished once again to the penalty box. I think I tend to get more focus towards the end of the night.

  • CedarFlute

    Why am I now being moderated? Tried to comment on our Minnesota congresswoman.

  • CedarFlute

    ….who is all of a sudden all sweet and polite on local TV after her harsh comments last week….and big drop in polls and donations.

  • Casey Morris

    Today’s edition of scrofulous mudslinging-

    Dear Joe,

    While I appreciate the boredom that must have motivated you to drag the word scrofulous from the pages of nineteenth century, I must protest that it is far, far too elegant a term to be applied to the acts currently being perpetrated by the McCain campaign.

    I think you should try ‘immoral’ or in certain cases (such as the Nazi comparison GOP mailers from PA) you could use depraved, or behavior showing a depraved indifference to morality.

  • joebourgeois

    Has anybody else noticed that Halperin at The Page, whenever Obama has a statement, appends the McCain campaign’s response, but never reciprocates by carrying Obama campaign responses to McCain statements?

    Doesn’t seem quite fair and balanced, and it’s glaringly obvious. For example, right now he’s got “CLOSING ARGUMENT: Obama introduces a new speech in Canton, Ohio — a state that sealed Bush’s ’04 re-election — to “cap off” his two-year campaign. [snip] Read his full remarks here.
    McCain camp responds: Says “he was unable to support his rhetoric with a single accomplishment.” Read statement here.”
    juxtaposed with
    “McCain Pounds “Barack the Redistributor” [note also the clarity and rhetorical pointness of the headline as opposed to the Obama satement]: At a rally in Dayton, the GOP candidate seizes on a 2001 Obama radio interview as evidence “we are still learning more about Senator Obama and his agenda.”
    and then nothing from the Obama people.

    It’s almost like he’s, I don’t know, biased against the Democratic candidate.

  • waltculver

    RE: AYERS, WRIGHT, ET AL

    I am NOT a liberal. I’ve voted Republican 75% of the time and I voted (mistakenly!) for Bush in 2000. Yet I disregard the smears from either side about who the candidates have associated
    with.

    Character (and Judgment) IS important, but that you should judge by the actions of the candidates themselves, not the actions of a few less savory folks who have touched BOTH candidates among the many thousands who have touched them.

    Regarding Obama, call Ayers a terrorist if you like. But that’s offset by McCain’s close friendship with David Ifshin, who once committed treasonous acts in Hanoi during the Vietnam War.

    Again regarding Obama, call Resko a financial villain. But then remember that McCain gave a speech in the Senate supporting the relaxation of regulations on the Savings & Loan industry to help Keating. (Both Resko and Keating went to jail).

    I could go on and on — about preachers, and whatever number of bad people. But both candidates ALSO associated with many, many more fine, inspiring people. Who had more influence — the thousands of fine people, or the handful of bad ones?

    Mmmmm?

  • sgwhiteinfla

    joeb,

    Halperin is a tool who just is hoping that the election becomes a horse race. He is a Drudge slave at heart and the next time he has an original thought will be the first time for him.

  • bygriff

    McCain’s choice: Save (Salvage) his reputation or go-for-broke with no real chance left. Unfortunately, he seems to be going for broke and hoping that people will forget the negativity of his campaign…or that they will excuse him (or even praise him) because he could have gone more negative. And he is right; he will quickly become a forgiven has-been relegated to appearances on Larry King.

  • jose

    Speaking of Halperin, does anybody ever click on his 5 “Most important people” deal? Somebody should tell him. To get my nickname to work right I had to update twice before I could change my screen name.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Yes, I can see it already. Forgive me all you know deep down inside I am an honorable man. I hated going as negative as I did, if only he would have done the ten town halls. But alas he didn’t so I was forced to go depravitoua because of the vast inequities on the monetary front.

  • whenrepublicansattack

    From the beginning, the McCain/Palin/Schmidt rhetorical ploy of “He’s not one of us” was designed to attract xenophobes and bigots looking for a pretext for their prejudice. Read the comments for the video cited above–the venomous comments and smug self-congratulations are not characteristic of a debate about political systems.

  • pseudonymous in NC

    Joe: isn’t this basically a reprise of the 1967-8 attack on MLK Jr, who was talking explicitly about economic justice and the idea that earning enough to live means not earning enough to thrive?

    My sister-in-law, who I presume gets her political information through the right-wing bush telegraph, had to be talked out of believing that Obama wanted to (I quote) ‘make everyone get paid the same wages’. That’s not something she’s thought up by herself, which means it’s being fed from somewhere.

    Granted, any attempt to equate Obama’s UChi economics and MLK’s guaranteed-income Georgism is just dumb. But I get the feeling that southern right-wing radio — perhaps flat-taxer Boortz — is essentially pushing the same line that was used to cast MLK as a socialist right before his assassination.

    And picking up on what Casey Morris said, just say ‘poxy’.

  • jennofark

    There’s an easy response to this “redistributionist” BS.

    It’s this: “How come the GOP talks about letting people keep “their money” whenever they’re proposing tax cuts on the income, investments or capital gains of the wealthy, but when we talk about letting “Joe the Plumber” keep a little more of the money he’s worked for, it’s socialism?”

    Another possibility: “For years the Republicans have been promising tax cuts by saying “it’s your money – you know how to spend it better than the government does”, but now they’re saying that when you get a tax cut, it’s not “your money” – it’s someone else’s money that’s being “redistributed”. Maybe they only believe in the sanctity of “your money” when it’s money that belongs to wealthy people.”

  • oizydoizy

     
    To Obama’s supporters in college
     
    Please ignore robocalls urging you to be “Fried up, ready to go” on Nov. 4.
     
    Lay off the drugs that day.
     

  • jcapan

    Have the doofi running this joint noted the huge downturn in comments a week prior to the biggest election in decades? Like from 100s per post to less than oftentimes. Of course, we’ll all tune out soon enough, once the election is over and governing begins (or what I like to call foreplay in reverse).

    But jeez, could you post an obnoxious bouncer at the door, double the cover, card like crazy, charge outrageous prices for what in the end is rather lame entertainment and H20ed down cocktails.

    Signed,

    Vein pulsating in my forehead (-:)

  • ehowl

    Dee in Columbia MD:

    Also, “I had to because the LWMedia was out to get me. And I had to because Barak dropped out of public financing….”

  • James, Los Angeles

    Yeah this WordPress deal sucks. Horrible.

    JennO it is because what is left of Republicans just, um, aren’t that bright. Take Joe the Plumber. Actually, plumber’s helper, not plumber. Makes about median wage, right?

    A plumber’s helper would have to be really really stupid to prefer John McCain’s tax plan to Obama’s. Presumably JtP(H) knows he isn’t a multi-millionaire now, and won’t be in the next several years.

    So he intends to vote to extend tax cuts for those who are far, far above him in income while voting to raise taxes on himself.

    I rest my case.

  • James, Los Angeles

    Moderation. What did I do? This is really bad. And the format isn’t very readable. And no preview function. And people can steal nicknames.

  • http://sorinplaton.wordpress.com SorinPLATON

    Some remarks in romanian/european language for US-UE citizens from Romania, a percent of your readers & taxpayers by the way…

    Standard & Poor ‘scade calificative nationale, ca minoritaru’ lautar, …dupa ureche

    http://sorinplaton.wordpress.com/2008/10/28/standard-poors-s-tales/

    Cele bune sa se adune,
    1= [rezistenta antigloAbalizanta din muntzi :) ]

  • hellslittlestangel

    Don’t forget, John McCain has experience. He has faced darkness and despair and hopelessness. He has faced crisis. And he has acted. The fact that his suicide attempt was a failure should not be held against him.

  • etsumi

    Noticing a huge downturn in comments Time doofi? Cut the FISA approach to debate, please. Jesus, we’re all gone in a week anyway–at least let us get our kicks unfettered for the peak of a two-year season. Let us climax baby.

  • kathy

    It’s probably just as well for us to stop showing how to get your name back. Will somebody give an email address instead where instructions can be sent? Jayack, PaulD? If trolls get in and start acquiring our screen names all over the place, we’re in real trouble.

  • kathy

    etsumi and others: This is not a thing that TIME is doing voluntarily. The server crashed, and the moderation problem seems to be inherent to the wordpress template, as I’ve seen on other sites (such as mudflats). Hang in there. (Though the High Sheriffs complicated this terribly by lying and calling this scheduled maintenance.)

  • Paul-no not that one

    “(Though the High Sheriffs complicated this terribly by lying and calling this scheduled maintenance)”

    And that’s the bell that is hard to unring.

  • Slowhand Ted

    This is the thing that I’m having a hard time swallowing. If it was a server crash, why not just get the old format back up again. He was being used for how long with only minor interruptions? As far as I can see, we have a server crash and then the introduction of a new format. That to me doesn’t make sense, since (a) it’s not as though the old format was unworkable and (b) it’s not as though Word Press is any more reliable.
    .
    From my perspective, the Swamp goes off-line for a couple of days and comes back in a form that loses many of the old features, leaves you open to impersonation and – most egregiously of all – deprives posters of the spontaneity and freedom of expression in favor of the corporate’s friend, moderation.
    .
    I’m voting Vast Rightward-Leaning Magazine Media Conspiracy.

  • kathy

    Slowhand Ted – I hadn’t thought about that. Didn’t even consider it a possibility. But if it is, then certainly we’ve lost enough people because of this format that the old server wouldn’t have to handle anymore than it was handling a week ago.
    .
    Pnnto – There’s really not a lot of choice but to root for the High Sheriffs at the moment, but I hope there’s a reckoning on behalf of the community and the posters who want to maintain their integrity. I’m going to remain ticked about this lie until we have some accountability.

  • Casey Morris

    I’ve heard all that “change is hard” psychobabble crap before, but as someone who has run blogs for five years, including one larger than this one, I’d like to politely comment from a professional point of view that your new format sucks.

    It’s not user friendly, the comments are difficult to follow visually, it encourages namestealing, the conversation doesn’t flow in a timely manner (critical to effective political blogging), there’s no preview feature, wordpress constantly tries to data mine your customers (which makes my spouse so irritated he wormscrews with their software right back), the comments are in too small a font size, and your auto-moderation is way behind.

    Stop calling this an improvement. Call it cost cutting. Call it data mining. Call it whatever it really is, but for crissakes, don’t call a pile of horsesh!t dessert and expect someone to think it will taste good just because you called it dessert.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    McCain is just trying to protect the interests of all those rich guys he hangs out with in gambling casinos. The poor should be happy to die in Iraq and keep their mouth shut. There is only one class of people who have the right to enjoy the fruits of America, white, rich Republicans.

  • kathy

    Casey – thanks. You seem to be suggesting that the lie might be more extensive than telling us it was scheduled maintenance. Maybe the lie was that the server crashed, and in fact the changeover was “scheduled” all along. Can’t keep their stories straight. sound like the McCain campaign.

    The “oops” post says The upside is a faster, better, more stable platform. Well it that’s true, why weren’t they using it all along?

    Our commenters are critical to the success of our blogs, and we hate to do anything that makes your participation more difficult. This reads like a truth disguising a lie. Of course commenters are critical to the success of their blogs, but that doesn’t mean they value us as anything other than a source of success for their blogs.

    At the moment it appears we’ve been used, and the posters – especially KT, Joe, JNS, and Michael, who have engaged with us – have been used.

    Joe? KT? Are you going to let the High Sheriffs damage your hard-earned reputation for honesty?

  • Paul-no not that one

    Well, Kathy, all I can say is that it is a shame.
    .
    They switched either by choice “scheduled main.” as they claimed or by events forced on them by crashing as KT has said.
    .
    The result is the TIME blog that they have cultivated during this cycle has become inferior a week before the election.
    .
    Less lively, less timely, and certainly less relevant.

  • kathy

    pnnto – agreed. But I also want to affirm that I’m still hanging out here because I value the interaction we do have. The fact that I’m ripped at this happening won’t keep me from being here. Like ivb, I was very unhappy to not be in the swamp when it was down. But I’ll be happy to migrate to the lagoon if/when necessary.
    .
    http://politicallagoon.blogspot.com/

  • oizydoizy

    A human:

  • dancingoutlaw

    Can the Clintons return to the “land of the living” after running an inherently racist primary?

  • kathy

    Anybody seeing articles about the dreaded “tightening?” CNN last night had polls in battlegrounds that showed closer results,and the RCP average is down about a point today.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Does the URL for the header mean that TIME is using the “VIP” WordPress theme?

    http://s2.wordpress.com/wp-content/themes/vip/timebasic/assets/swampland.blogs.time.com/header.jpg

  • wvng

    kathy: “But I also want to affirm that I’m still hanging out here because I value the interaction we do have. ”

    ditto

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    If you take a look at the URL for the Swampland header, it looks like TIME is using the WordPress VIP Hosting service, presumably for the business reasons laid out by WordPress. If it’s tweaking people want, it might be worthwhile to visit the other VIP sites and focus your requests on things that can actually be done under the VIP service. If another VIP site can do it, I bet Swampland can, too.

  • wvng

    Ah, tightening. Just as Nate predicted.

    I am saying “not to worry” as I feverishly knock on wood, throw salt over my shoulder, and cross my fingers, toes, and legs.

    7 days never seemed so long before.

    BTW, I get to see Obama in Harrisonburg, VA today. If I get there way early. Otherwise I’ll hear him and maybe see him on a big screen.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Kathy 538 is the resource for all things polls, of course.
    I will try to link to his specifc post.
    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/endgame

  • kathy

    wvng – time to leave for the rally! Hope you get a good view. take pictures. Paul D can post them for you, maybe, if you can’t yourself.

    Pnnto -

    Nate Silver’s site is the first I visit every morning. But he doesn’t have the CNN polls from yesterday listed (yet?) Thanks for linking to him though. There are always new people who don’t know 538 yet. I keep clinging to that 3% likelihood of a McCain win.

  • James, Los Angeles

    Kathy, Drudge is pushing the “tightening” race. He’s been flogging it bigtime for days. So it’s no surprise that CNN is running with it. They have no imagination of their own, and too many rightwing “political analysts” by half.

    Also, the Drudge-driven pundits have been wrong every step of the way — mavericky maverick McCain, Palin, Debate1, Debate2, Debate3, Palin-Biden. So take it as a good sign that they are pushing the “tightening.”

  • kathy

    JamesLA and pnnto – it’s not necessarily a bad thing for Obama for the polls to appear to be tightening. Gets the voters to the polls. Although I think some of the growth in his numbers may be a bandwagon effect, of people wanting to be with the winner.
    .
    The only numbers that make me nervous are Nate’s simulations that show only a 2% chance of Obama winning if he loses Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. (>70% chance of winning if he loses 2 of those). So those 3 states are certainly the ones to watch, and Florida and Ohio are really within McCain’s reach.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Yes, the VIP story makes sense. Looking at Anderson Cooper’s 360 site, featured on the home page for WordPress VIP (this is itself supporting evidence for the theory, corporate wanting one vendor), I see that there is support for sans serif fonts which are more standard, and more attractive, on screen. This would improve readibility quite a bit.

    Thanks for the linespace between posts. Now we need to be able to create line spaces between post paragraphs.

  • bacalove

    Barack Obama never stated that redistribution should be from tax payers to those who do not pay taxes, that is a lie, deception and a fallacy. What he is talking about is “fairness” and opportunity for all. That there should be wealth for all, not just the special few, that is what spreading the wealth or redistribution of wealth really means. The GOP is famous for taking words out of context and making them the complete opposite.

    Please be wary of the touch-screen voting machines. If your district uses one, be sure to confirm that the candidate you chose on the screen is the one that is checked off on the screen and not the other candidate.

    In one Republican voting place in Florida the woman who ran the place said they STRESS absentee ballots for their contsituents and she had stacks of them on a corner table which had already been filled out and sent back. I got to thinking about that. Why would she Stress these ballots instead of people voting on the machines?

    We can be assured that if we elect a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress, these problems effecting our voting system and rights will be addressed and solved.

  • Andy from Massachusetts

    It would also be nice to have my comments posted in real time. Last night every single commnet I post went into the abyss.
    .
    It’s been very frustrating even when KT liberates posts. for now, I think I’m going to walk away from Swampland for a few days. It’s just to frustrating to comment and not see your comments posted.
    .
    Best wishes to you all for a few days.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Scoble comments feature very readable text formatting, so it’s clearly possible. It’s just a question of settling on a theme. Jay, you ought to send a short consensus list of requested fatures on behalf of Swampland commenters to whoever made that post-crash “Ooops” post and ask that they shop for a more community-friendly theme. There are a billion, all free. That’s what this comes down too — finding the best compromise theme. As for moderation, I don’t see a “no moderation” future. Click here for WordPress moderation information. I think the best outcome is to request the spam words and regular expressions list be culled to a bare minimum.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    If it was a server crash, why not just get the old format back up again. He was being used for how long with only minor interruptions? As far as I can see, we have a server crash and then the introduction of a new format. That to me doesn’t make sense, since (a) it’s not as though the old format was unworkable and (b) it’s not as though Word Press is any more reliable.
    .
    It pretty clearly was a severe crash with extensive data loss, seeing how long it took them to recover past posts.
    .
    It’s also clear that there was a plan to migrate to wordpress, but I strongly doubt that it would have been planned before the election, and the implementation makes it clear that they were certainly not ready to go with it.
    .
    I agree with Casey that the migration was probably a cost-cutting move.
    .
    As for the terrible lie of calling this “scheduled maintenance,” this is absolutely par for the course. There is a longstanding history of IT departments not telling embarrassing truths to their customers, or, for that matter, to their bosses when there are problems. This affair is plainly unacceptable. I will continue to believe that it was insufficient resources allocated that was responsible, but the tech folks should have been able to recover from the crash regardless of the resource levels. First priority is always backup and restore capability.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Anderson Cooper’s site includes CNN comment policy:
    .
    CNN encourages you to add a comment to this discussion. You may not post any unlawful, threatening, libelous, defamatory, obscene, pornographic or other material that would violate the law. Please note that CNN makes reasonable efforts to review all comments prior to posting and CNN may edit comments for clarity or to keep out questionable or off-topic material. All comments should be relevant to the post and remain respectful of other authors and commenters. By submitting your comment, you hereby give CNN the right, but not the obligation, to post, air, edit, exhibit, telecast, cablecast, webcast, re-use, publish, reproduce, use, license, print, distribute or otherwise use your comment(s) and accompanying personal identifying information via all forms of media now known or hereafter devised, worldwide, in perpetuity. CNN Privacy Statement.
    .
    This is not consistent with the needs of discussion area like Swampland has become. This is consistent with an LTE interface. It that is the intention, we’d like to be informed. Because in that case, I think people will move on. In particular, the idea that comments may be “edited” is unacceptable.
    .
    Is there a swampland comment policy? Where can it be found? Is there a TIME blog comment policy.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Sheriffs-

    Is there an intention to move to the CNN LTE comment policy rather than the current discussion format? A more detailed form of this question is in limbo at the moment. (It is kinda funny that the verbatim CNN comment policy statement irritates the moderatobot.)

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    My pirate speak still hasn’t made it out, 9 hours later. Must be all the apostrophes and shortened words – not recognizable by the machinka :) . I hate to lose this aspect of myself here in Swampland…
    .
    The conversation I value so much here has become terribly difficult to carry on, but, like Kathy, I’m hanging in here hoping it will be fixed.

  • Slowhand Ted

    pourmecoffee, you may well be right that this is The Way of The Future in the Swamp. I’ll stick with it until the election is over and then just hang out on Washington Monthly. Benen and Hilzoy are always worth reading – between the two of them they blog more than the six Time bloggers combined – and there is zero moderation.
    .
    I guess control means more to Time than participation.

  • wvng

    kathy. This from Charlie Cook may give you some ease. (behind subscription wall, so no link). (And yeah, I know, I’m off to the rally.)

    Swinging for the Fences
    By Charlie Cook National Journal

    .
    For a political analyst, the normal posture this time of year is much like a baseball umpire’s: hunched over, peering carefully as the ball approaches the plate, watching for whether it breaks left or right, whether it’s coming in high or low. But, these days, we analysts are more like outfielders, watching in awe as a ball seems on a trajectory to not only clear the fence but very likely land in the upper deck.
    .
    By every metric, Barack Obama’s presidential campaign appears headed for the upper deck. Polls (both national and state-by-state), organization, money, and momentum are all running strongly in Obama’s favor. At this point, one wonders whether Obama’s winning margin could be greater than Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton’s 5.6-point win over President George H.W. Bush in 1992, more than Bush’s 7.7-point win over Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis in 1988, or more than Clinton’s 8.5-point win over Sen. Bob Dole in 1996. Even higher on the landslide roster is California Gov. Ronald Reagan’s 9.7-point victory over President Carter in 1980 and Gen. Dwight Eisenhower’s 10.9-point win over Adlai Stevenson in 1952.
    .
    Certainly, the 2008 presidential contest could reverse direction and result in victory for John McCain. But at this point, he would have to be the beneficiary of something quite dramatic for that to happen.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    I’m not too worried about the “tightening” race. It’s important that everyone gets out and votes, but I’m almost certain Obama is going to prevail. Like wvng, though, I’m tossing a bit of salt as I make this prediction :) , just to hedge my bets a bit. I already voted, so I’m good!

  • wvng

    kathy, I just posted something that would comfort you if it weren’t in moderation.

    And, demwoman, arrrrrgggggghhhhhh! I’m with you in spirit if not in talent.

  • kathy

    Jayack – I don’t know the tech stuff you’re talking, but are you saying “they” might be opting for a comment thread of the sort that we find on, say, NYTimes, which is essentially just a string of separated comments by 400 people, with comments and people unrelated to each other? Horrors, if so.

  • kathy

    wvng – I’ll take comfort from your intentions :0)

  • wvng

    kathy, trying again with just the jist. Charlie Cook: “For a political analyst, the normal posture this time of year is much like a baseball umpire’s: hunched over, peering carefully as the ball approaches the plate, watching for whether it breaks left or right, whether it’s coming in high or low. But, these days, we analysts are more like outfielders, watching in awe as a ball seems on a trajectory to not only clear the fence but very likely land in the upper deck. By every metric, Barack Obama’s presidential campaign appears headed for the upper deck.”

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    And, wvng, Arrgh!
    .
    That seems to make it through with no problem :) .

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Oops – should have read you first, wvng!

  • kathy

    yes wvng, very comforting. I think Charlie really wanted McCain, so I take heart from this view of his.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Assume that the changes itemized below are made. How would Swampland 2.0 be different than Swampland 1.0 other than some keyword moderation and the theoretical ability of someone to waste a lot of time to fake someone else’s username?

    1. Increase comment font size;
    2. Add paragraph spacing;
    3. Modify keyword comment moderation to lowest sensitivity;
    3. Tweak theme aesthetics.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    As for tightening, don’t worry – be happy – encourage, harangue, beg, exhort everyone to vote!

  • kathy

    Two wordpress blogs with better comment boxes. Don’t see why we have to have this dreadful format, even if we’re stuck in wordpress:
    .
    http://mudflats.wordpress.com/
    http://hill7.wordpress.com/ (not many comments. It’s a new blog. scroll down to find a comment.)

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    “essentially just a string of separated comments by 400 people, with comments and people unrelated to each other.” Putting aside font, spacing and moderation issues – how is that any different than Swampland v 1.0? I don’t get it.

  • ivb3016

    wvng – thanks for that comment by Charlie Cook! That’s encouraging. I’m feeling really nervous.

  • kathy

    demwoman: Here in Vermont we’ll vote for Obama, which is another comfort. I work on the weekend, or I’d have headed to NH – our lone congressman drove the magic bus: (includes amusing picture of large McCain sign on a cemetary fence)
    http://vermontdailybriefing.com/?p=1104
    .
    we badly need a Democratic governor though. badly

  • kathy

    pourmecoffee. ??? we had trolls to ignore, but we’ve had community here.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    kathy – What about the change prevents community?

  • kathy

    well we’ve managed – but it’s been so frustrating some folks have left, and having comments disappear down the moderation hole means the flow of conversation is interrupted. If this gets moderated, you won’t get a reply, for example.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    Here is what I’m saying: no need to wistful about Paradise Lost. There are simple changes that can be made which will achieve the desired result – increase text size, add paragraph spacing, cut down the moderation keyword list to the bare minimum. Those are all really simple, doable things. If we get those rational requests to a rational person with the authority to execute on them, I imagine they will happen.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    kathy – I’m in WA state and we’ve got vote by mail so many here have already voted. I’m irritating the p*ss out of everyone I know who hasn’t, yet :) . We’ve got a pretty safe all-democrat representation in congress, but a tight gov race – Lord knows why it’s tight since the Republican is so blatantly fake, but I hear his populist schtick is selling on the other side of the mountains :) .

  • ivb3016

    pourmecoffee, don’t know what Kathy would say, but for me it was brought home by how much I missed the swamp when it was gone. I realized that this is the only blog I participate in comments regularly and I have been doing it since the beginning. I like the way the writers interact with us and know they read the comments even if they don’t add to them.
    .
    I find the commenters here have so much to offer that I have learned a lot from the others. We all went through a long and difficult primary season and I didn’t have a problem supporting Hillary because almost everyone else was very civil about it. I have been wondering what will happen after the election because I will miss this — although I do have things to do that I’m putting off until then!

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    They are still recovering from the crisis. Don’t go McCain on them and Suspend Commenting Until It Is Fixed. Rock that Obama style and let them work through the crisis methodically!

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I still don’t understand the connection between the things you like about Swampland and your post-crash despair. It’s back up. There is some tweaking to be done. Resume play.

  • ivb3016

    Sorry, I realized after I hit post, I didn’t really respond to the point about the format – got fixated on community.
    .
    Am learning to deal with the format. They did put spaces between posts which helped a lot and if I have to do my own with paragraphs, I can cope. They have to fix the moderation, however.

  • kathy

    ivb – why will we stop after the election? There are still lots of substantive issues – the war, the economy, the efforts to subvert the next presidency.

  • not who I claim to be

    Greetings

  • not who I claim to be

    I can’t use my former swampland name because I go you know where.

  • not who I claim to be

    It would also be nice to have my comments posted in real time. Last night every single commnet I post went into the abyss.
    .
    It’s been very frustrating even when KT liberates posts. for now, I think I’m going to walk away from Swampland for a few days. It’s just to frustrating to comment and not see your comments posted.
    .
    Best wishes to you all for a few days – A from MA

  • kathy

    listening to Sarah Palin at a rally. She’s lying, lying, lying, and the crowd is cheering wildly. very discouraging.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Bye Andy – I’ll miss you :) ! Come back before the election, please…

  • kathy

    not who
    .
    If you would read this whole thread your problem would be solved. must read threads :0)

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    For those who lost Swampland v 1.0 names, maybe it would help to have an agreed-upon v 2.0 naming convention, something like originalname+SUFFIX (pourmecoffeeSWAMPLAND) with the original name at the beginning for easy recognition.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Bye Andy – I’ll miss you :) ! Come back soon.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    I don’t know how That just happened!

  • kathy

    Andy – don’t leave. We’ll know who you are. are you saying your name gets you moderate? That can’t possibly be true?

  • kathy

    is anyone else finding it takes an age for a comment to post after you submit? It might be my computer acting up.

  • not who I claim to be

    Kathy – I did follow Paul D’s perfect instructions. It worked. However when I post under that name, I get branded with the scarlet M and sent to the corner.

  • ivb3016

    Andy, I responded in Joe’s post. Really seems strange that your name got you banned. Maybe Andy in MA would work.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    “essentially just a string of separated comments by 400 people, with comments and people unrelated to each other
    .
    What Kathy said is what I meant by LTE format. The comment thread in that kind of environment is more like the letters section in a newspaper, just with unlimited space. The Washington Post is like that.
    .
    Heavy moderation lightly monitored destroys conversation flow. FDL has fairly heavy moderation, but the message flow into moderation is constantly monitored.
    .
    Likewise, any editing, which always happens in dead tree LTEs, IME, impedes conversation. The material is treated as input to the product content, and not interaction among participants. There is nothing, per se, wrong with that model. It’s just not common in blogging environments which are generally more interactive.
    .
    The cosmetic problems are ones I am sure they are aware of. The moderator settings are clearly not set properly. they’ll fix the cosmetic problems eventually. But if there is a change in how they want participation to work, they should tell us.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Is anyone else finding it takes an age for a comment to post after you submit? It might be my computer acting up.
    .
    Long comments seem to be delayed here. I assume that’s the moderatobot scanning.
    .
    It’s odd that they found it necessary to start with the moderation set on “HIGH.” Conversations here are civil, moreso than most places. We didn’t even have the pie fights that disrupted so many other blogs during the primaries.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    I just realized what the problem is. Beavis and B#tthead wrote the bad words list.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    I see; thanks. TIME has to police comments in some manner. Imagine some really foul comment on a post and a candidate in “Blame The Press” mode goes on national television citing “what TIME has online.” This will happen. They simply cannot allow themselves to be as loose as Atrios or Daily Kos. They also can’t afford human moderation in an era of declining profit. The compromise is to work the automated moderation process to an optimal setting. This takes time and the cooperation of the commenter community.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    I’m out! See #50.

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=1191832308&ref=name Shakespeare in GA

    See #39 for where I’m coming from on all this.
    .
    And please fix this blog, High Sheriffs.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    pourmecoffee
    .
    The interesting issue here is how they move to the blogspace. One reason people come here is that there is actual participation by the traditional media people who post here. Even if they don’t post in the threads, they make it clear that they are reading them, and that it influencing what they post. A more traditional media model is to have these letters to the editor be standalone nuggets of content controlled by the publication.
    .
    Many of the regulars at Glenn Greenwald’s blog were worried about his move to salon for this very reason. Salon calls comments “letters” and, while unmoderated, are separate entities. They are not edited, except under odd circumstances (GG once corrected an error for me in one of posts there) but there is little interaction among readers. There are also letter ratings, which is another form of editorial control. Glenn’s blog thrived on the interaction of an erudite collection of very interesting people. We feared switching to Salon’s model would damage that.
    .
    There were problems in the beginning, but Glenn had made his commitment to the commenting community clear to Salon, and they made some informal policy changes, including the non-use of the rating system. (It’s to the community’s credit that the people who got the STAR rating were among the first to complain about a rating system.)
    .
    So format is not a straitjacket. But new formats can change the sense of community and lead to wholesale departures of participants. This has happened over and over again at Slate.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    jay – I see, and all valid except that I don’t see any sign of a shift in policy other than a crash and having to deal with figuring out the new software.

  • http://whyy.org/blogs/ydecide/2008/10/28/dipping-into-the-blog-bag/ Y Decide » Blog Archive » Dipping into the Blog Bag

    [...] Well, lucky for them, their Obama recordings are a lot more popular than my Biden archives.  Joe Klein at Time’s Swampland blog attempts to debunk the McCain campaign’s attempts to take Obama’s words and turn them [...]

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