In the Arena

Ideologues in Extremis

One of my guilty pleasures this year has been to check out the neoconservatives over at the Commentary blog as they attempt to…explain…what’s…happening. Like, why Jews–who should really just, uh, get it about who this guy really is–actually, hmmm, seem to favor Obama at about the same rate as they favored other Democrats in the past. Or why Joe The Plumber has really struck a chord. Or why I am a terrible person. (Answer: because I called them out on their conflated and wrong-headed misapprehension of Israel’s and America’s best interests.)

Anyway, the last time I indulged my perverse pastime–before our servers crashed–I found a truly heinous piece of false dudgeon concerning, well, me. It was a response to a post I made here last week, about the friendship between John McCain and my late friend David Ifshin, a former anti-Vietnam radical.  The thing was written by a person named Jason Maoz, who made the argument that I had established a moral equivalence between my beloved, mourned and very much missed friend David–and William Ayres, whom I have loathed from a distance for 40 years and who, by any true standard of justice, should have spent serious jail time for his acts.

This…genius Maoz argued–brilliantly (I mean it took an awful lot of analytical power to see this)–that there was no moral equivalence between David and Ayers since David had apologized for the antiwar speech he gave in North Vietnam and Ayres hadn’t apologized for the bombs he had set. Also–again, an observation blinding in its lucidity–it was noted that giving a speech isn’t as serious as setting a bomb. 

Of course, this…Maoz kinda missed the point: my post really was about the character of John McCain. I was remembering my friend, but mourning the loss of the John McCain who was large enough to forgive and love David. I was lamenting the current, miniscule McCain, a man who would take a passing–and deeply irrelevant–acquaintanceship between Barack Obama and Ayers, and try to make it a central issue in this absolutely crucial campaign, with the accompanying canard from the Embarracuda that Obama had “palled around” with terrorists. I was thinking, though I didn’t write this, about how David would have had a tough time balancing his regard for McCain against his loathing of the gutter politics–the robo calls, the questioning of Obama’s patriotism, the intimations of sympathy for terrorism, the constant attempts to divert attention from the economic crisis–that McCain has practiced this year. 

The idea that this…Maoz would think that I’d ever compare my late friend, for whom I said kaddish and sat shiva, to William Ayers is an example of the myopic arrogance and slovenly thinking that marks the neoconservative tendency. What an embarrassment this…Maoz is. What damage he and his friends have done to our country.

Related Topics: Uncategorized
  • Latest on Swampland

    Image: Mark Halperin interviews Mitt Romney

    Romney Defends Bain Record, Hits Obama on Economy: ‘He Just Doesn’t Have a Clue’

    Mitt Romney lashed President Obama’s economic stewardship in an interview with TIME’s Mark Halperin on Wednesday, deflecting attacks on his years as a private equity executive and laying out how he hopes to take control of the economy as soon as he’s sworn in, should he defeat Obama in November.

    Lewis Eisenberg, Major Romney Donor, Accuses Obama Of Demonizing Wall StreetHuffPost Politics

    Image: Presidential candidate Mitt Romney

    Mother of Mitt: How Lenore Romney’s Failed Campaign Shaped the Presumptive Republican Nominee

    This week’s TIME cover story, “The Mother of the Mitt Campaign,” tells the tale of how Lenore Romney’s 1970 run for U.S. Senate may have made a bigger impression on the Republican presidential candidate than his years spent as the son of a governor. Mitt’s father lost his own presidential bid, but it was the lessons from his mother’s loss that are more instructive as Romney enters the campaign stretch.

  • 53dash3

    I’m hoping that after the election, these guys will only be able to find solace in dark basements with a few of their closest confidants.

    Keep up the good work, Joe!

  • sgwhiteinfla

    Joe Klein, you don’t have to explain yourself to that Moaz azzhole.

    Say it with me Joe….FUHK YOU MOAZ!!!

    Enough said.

  • http://pourmecoffee.blogspot.com pourmecoffee

    My Dad had a way of calling something I’d said or done “clever” that made me instantly ashamed of how shallow I’d been. Moaz retort was very clever.

  • 53dash3

    btw
    cnn poll of polls 50 to 42 Obama
    http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/map/polling/
    .
    538 52 to 46 Obama
    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/
    .
    Pollster 51 to 42 Obama
    http://www.pollster.com/
    .
    These are the most conservative, and 538 has a lot of food for thought lately on the election.

  • ivb3016

    Speaking of the character of John McCain, dday discusses a post by Matt Stoller from Open Left that might interest you. Certainly more worth reading than the twits at Commentary.

    http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/myth-of-maverick-by-dday-matt-stoller.html

  • timeisnotonyourside

    Hey, Joe the fumbler:

    Let me take advantage of the posting lull caused by the complete collapse of the blogging infrastructure of your incompetent corporation to remind you that you easily equaled the crazy quilt logic of Moaz in your heyday as a Bush groupie. We remember how you backed the war, Joe, and how you excoriated Democrats for not giving Bush the right to break the laws at will.

    It was Joe Klein who thought Bush’s anti-terror power grab was wise and prudent. It was Joe Klein who admired the brilliant General Petraeus. It was Joe Klein who mocked the Democrats for being out of touch with America’s crazed militarists. The Internet never forgets, Joe, and compilations of your greatest blunders will be circulating until you retire. Stupid, stupid, stupid will be your epitaph.

  • questionhillary

    OT, check out the great troll name I got! Thanks for the crash, Time.com administrators…

    OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!! I HATEZ THE LIEBRAL MEDIA!!!

    This has been a troll test. It was only a test.

  • joebourgeois

    Joe, I hope you’re starting to realize that the vast, vast majority of spokespeople for the American right wing simply don’t argue in good faith.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    ivb,

    Thats as powerful an article as I have seen. The person who needs to see it most is AMC though. And when she finally puts up a blog you should not only put the link back up but also cut and paste some of the content. The curtain has been pulled back on that fraud for the world to see

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    ivb–

    The timing is interesting. The knives are out all over. They’ll blame teh gai media as much as they can, but this looks like too big a disaster to not lead to internal warfare.

    Look at the last two days!! It’s hard to imagine a worse couple of days for a campaign.

  • eldonut

    http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/myth-of-maverick-by-dday-matt-stoller.html

    —-

    DDay is correct, Klein. Read the post. Go on, do it. I dare you.

    Now, I’m not trying to diminish what you’re doing and saying here with this post, and in general what you’ve been up to lately with your comments on McCain. That said, Day is correct to point out that you and some of your pundit buds were previously willing to overlook McCain’s darker impulses in the past and cut him way too much slack. McCain has always been the same guy we see on the trail in 2008 – you just didn’t care to call him on it previously.

    Again, for now you are the enemy of my enemy, but if Barack Obama pulls off this election, I have no doubt that all too soon you’ll be at his throat for some perceived slight to moderation. I hope I’m wrong, but I doubt it.

    Carry on, Joe.

  • eldonut

    Ooops, I see ivb beat me to posting the DDay post. Apologies.

    —-

    Donut

  • phd9

    I am a supporter of Obama. I’m also aware that I am a supporter of Obama, so I know that I need to be careful to differentiate valid arguments and viewpoints from those that seem reasonable because of my wishful thinking. It takes a little bit of effort, but it comes in handy if I ever happen to be wrong about something. All I need do is simply acknowlege that I was wrong and move on.
    This is in sharp contrast to people, who when confronted by information that fails to support their view, take their shovel and simply dig themselves deeper into their holes. Arguments that used to seem to result in widespread agreement now suddenly have the opposite effect and simply make their proponents seem foolish.

    I think we can all readily point to examples of what I’m talking about.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Deliberately missing the point in order to score a point against you. It’s all they got. They haven’t got any facts that fit their world view anywhere, they just gotta lash out.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    phd9,

    For all of the talk BillO and Hannity do deriding Huffington Post and Dailykos neither of those sites have filth like freerepublic or townhall have. Investors business daily is another purveyor of the most ridiculous of smears against obama. Its amazing that they get free passes for the most part because even our liberal/progressive champions like KO and Maddow dont waste their times exposing those idiots. Well I saw this site from politico yesterday and I think its funny while being enlightening about just how far and wide the right wingers jumped the shark since the campaign started when it comes to smears

    http://jonswift.blogspot.com/2008/10/great-moments-in-election-year-blogging.html

  • mrreallyniceguy

    I begin to feel like a broken record broken record broken record, but “hate, fear and greed” are the only things the ideologues have. Arm them with knives, and let ‘em at each other. I’ll just stand over here…

  • pafro

    I would think the whole “palling around with Pinochet thing would destroy the ‘I’m against torture’ and the anti-terrorist meme’s of McCain at the same time, but you know, the press would have to report the story for that to happen.

  • hammerlock

    If you think the stuff at Commentary is great, try swinging by the freepers every so often.

    Watching them go batsh!t over the Ashley Todd faux assault and then watching them climb over themselves to backtrack/blame Ron Paul for the whole thing is hilarious.

    Over/under still has her as a “Barack Obama plant”.

  • alanalda

    Mr. Klein, was misspelling the writer’s name (according to the blog in question it’s Maoz, not Moaz, as you have it) merely an error on your part, or was it a juvenile attempt to diminish him? Meanwhile, I see he must have scored a real hit, given your churlish, ad hominem response.
    I’m a liberal who, while somewhat apprehensive about Obama, will probably end up voting for him. But I have to tell you, after reading Maoz’s post I went back and read your original post on Ifshin, and then I re-read Maoz’s article, and Maoz is right — you most definitely were making a comparison or an analogy. The fact that the best you (and your amen corner here) can do is engage in gratuitous name-calling is very instructive.
    I used to admire your writing and reporting, Mr. Klein, and recommended your book “Politics Lost” to many friends, but this election has caused you to become unhinged.

  • res ipsa loquitur

    Have you really loathed Bill Ayers from a distance for forty years? If so, then you and Bernardine Dohrn are the only people on the planet to have given Bill Ayers more than a second’s thought for thirty-nine of those years. Seriously, the election isn’t about how you feel about some third-rate bomb-thrower from the sixties or how the ossified nitwits at Commentary feel about you.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    Jay Rosen twitters a link to George Packer writing about the end days of conservatism.

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/georgepacker/2008/10/step-back-a-mom.html

    Media Matters hit similar highlights:

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200810240017?newsref=www.eschatonblog.com

    It’s like they think if they turn up to 11 and then to 12 it will start working again.

  • vwcat

    I think only the right is fascinated with Joe the Plumber. I think it’s because the rich never really knew anyone who actually worked for a living.
    The rest of us could care less about the guy. I think he’s a plant by the McCain campaign desperate for anything to seem like he is ‘in touch’

    As for the Ayres thing. The rightwing is stuck in the 1960s. They probably think Nixon is still president and when they turn on their tv they look for Bonanza and cannot figure out why they can’t find it and why everything is in color.
    Most of them are still fighting the Vietnam war, still think hippies exist and that communism is still a threat.
    That is when they are not seeing Terrorists under their bed and think it’s raining Nazis outside.
    They are so obsessed over things that happened 40 years ago and cannot let it go and move on.
    They throw out the insult Pinko and we all scratch our head wondering if they realize it’s the 21st century.
    That is nice thing about Obama. He is post boomer and doesn’t bring that baggage with him and why someone like Ayres is not a big deal to serve on a board with and be nodding aquaintence with. It was sooooooooo long ago and way before his time. sort of like a boomer would look at some bank robber out of the 1930s.
    But, the right cannot get this. They think don’t realize Obama came of age during the punk, new wave and Live Aid era. Things like Weathermen are just people giving the forecast and the 1960s is ancient history. so, while the right thinks it so important and such a big deal, people of Obama’s age group look at that time as just so long ago and totally different era from them.
    The right really needs to get out of the 1960s and realize Vietnam, hippies, Nixon and all that is just not relevant anymore.

  • tbetz

    vwcat wrote:
    I think only the right is fascinated with Joe the Plumber. I think it’s because the rich never really knew anyone who actually worked for a living.
    The rest of us could care less about the guy. I think he’s a plant by the McCain campaign desperate for anything to seem like he is ‘in touch’

    I don’t believe Wurzelbacher is a plant. I see him as a small-time skinhead punk who saw an opportunity to bring the uppity n****er down a notch and gave it his best shot.

    McCain, being the careless opportunist he is, has glommed on to Wurzelbacher as representative of the kind of small-minded, intellectually incoherent racists he’ll need to have any chance of winning this race in the waning days, and is doing what he can to promote his association with these other dinosaurs.

    Given the sort of enmity he has built up in the nation — and in his own party — I can’t imagine how how he stays in the Senate much past Obama’s Inauguration Day. Outside of the sycophants Liebermann and Graham, he won’t have any friends left.

  • sgwhiteinfla

    hey alanalda,

    If you actually DID read Joe Klein’s post about Ifshin there is no way you can come back thinking he was equivocating Bill Ayers to Ifshin. Hell if you go back and look at the comments you will see ALL of what you term his amen corner saying he should write about G Gordon Liddy whom IS an equivalent of Bill Ayers instead of continuing to get on the tireswing and yearn for the McCain of old. Of course its weird that you say you read this post then went to Maoz’s post then looked at Joe’s earlier post when as of late last night and this morning the archives still hadn’t been brought back online here. I guess maybe you had a magic computer but it sounds like you are doing a bit of trolling. But if you are on the up and up and you DO have a magic computer, go back and look at all of Klein’s posts recently and see how many of us you see amening him. Even the articles critical of McCain or complimentary of Obama. You see we use our own version of the fairness doctrine here. When we think Klein is beingn fair on in this case someone is being unfair towards him we say so. When Klein is unfair or somebody he brings into a post is being unfair we say that too. Now you are entitled to your own opinion for sure, but so are we. THATS the American I live in.

  • nibblybits

    @alanalda: Can’t speak to Joe’s intent in getting Moaz’s, or Maoz’s, name wrong, but he’s perfectly correct that the point is not making equivalencies between Ifshin and Ayers, but rather focusing on McCain’s reaction to them both. McCain can parse all he wishes, but he comes to the conclusion that conveniences him politically, which is that Ayers counts as a terrorist but Ifshin, because he was a personal friend, does not. McCain has made those exceptions all through his career.

    Look at the lobbyists around him. McCain rails against the special interests that have gripped Washington, but he has no problems having lobbyists as his closest advisers, even those who have been taking payments up until recently or those who have been lobbying on behalf of companies that have business in front of McCain’s committees. Look at his railing against Obama’s (lack of) experience, yet he not only picked Palin as his running mate, he recently defended her by saying that she was the most qualified of an recent VP candidate.

    McCain’s sanctimony means that he always has extenuating circumstances why the standard doesn’t apply to him, as though he’s the only one capable of making those distinctions but no one else is.

    Maoz is right about one thing about equivalencies: the relationship between McCain and Ifshin was close based on close friendship, but the relationship between Obama and Ayers was much much less. Only really knew each other from being on the same educational board. Not equivalent at all.

  • http://antiaging.reviewk.com/?p=114796 Ideologues in Extremis

    [...] post by WP-AutoBlog Import var AdBrite_Title_Color = ’0000FF’; var AdBrite_Text_Color = ’000000′; var [...]

  • Deggjr

    Mr. Klein, as an observation, the information in this post would have been more helpful if it was titled “Ideaologues in Ascendancy” and was written about four years ago. There were more than enough examples of idealologues at that time.

    But it wasn’t, which is why Talking Points Memo and Glenn Greenwald and others have a permanent place in political news and commentary. (I’m being aspirational on your behalf.)

    One other note: is my understanding correct that you don’t read the Swampland comments posted by your fans like me but you read comments by people who call you “cretinous”?

  • hdle

    Like, why Jews–who should really just, uh, get it about who this guy really is–actually, hmmm, seem to favor Obama at about the same rate as they favored other Democrats in the past.

    this is the point. jews and many others should get it and not blindly vote for democrats and especially not for obama.

    a man who would take a passing–and deeply irrelevant–acquaintanceship between Barack Obama and Ayers, and try to make it a central issue in this absolutely crucial campaign, with the accompanying canard from the Embarracuda that Obama had “palled around” with terrorists.

    it isn’t passing or irrelevant. obama got his political career started in ayre’s living room. he gave money to acorn and ayres’ favored groups. he wrote a blurb for an ayres’ book. obama lies about his relationship woith ayres. obama stayed in wright’s church and lies about what he knew re wright and the church. obama has been very comfortable with those who support palestinian terrorists and criticize israel.

  • hdle

    check out http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=205653 for another of obama’s relevant acquaintances.

  • yagur

    Joe, just to establish my bona-fides: I am a genuine fan of yours, read your blog entries, columns and articles regularly, and think in general do excellent work. In particular, I think that you are absolutely correct about American Jewish neo-cons, and the disaster they have been for America and Israel, and I don’t think that is in any way anti-Semitic, because if it is, well, I’m another self-hating Jew. So, if you’ll trust me that I’m, in fact, on your side, and not one of the crazies that infest these comments, then I hope you’ll trust me when I say… I thought you were drawing an equivalency between Ayers and Ifshin, too.

    I knew about the Ifshin story (first from Michael Lewis, though I may be mistaken; it could have been you) and so immediately knew who you were talking about, and thought your comparison was apt. When I related the story to a friend, just last night, I said something like, “McCain really is, or was, a decent guy… Joe Klein just wrote about the very moving way that McCain forgave and befriended a guy who was, just like Ayers, an anti-Vietnam radical. I mean this other guy apologized, but McCain’s behavior then and now is quite a contrast.”

    I mean, I’m not an idiot, or a genius, or a Moaz (Maoz?), so I didn’t read anything into your column like a one-for-one equivalency between Ayers and Ifshin. I thought you were making the point that a man (McCain) who once showed the character and grace and kindness to forgive and embrace a man for his acts during the war — even though those acts were a direct attack on McCain — and now is trying to demogogue and condemn a similar figure, for political reasons… just as others once treated Ifshin.

    But, uh, yeah. I think you were making an implied comparison between them. Perhaps not what you meant, or felt, but please believe that this charitable reader of your work saw it too.

blog comments powered by Disqus